26 réponses à ce sujet

[Amne YA]

why the human protagonist always has the noble background. in origin you star as a noble if you choose human.  hawk was noble and the inquisitor is a noble. like their's no poor humans inThedas ?  i  want to star as a simple human from a simple family.
also bring back the city elves. 

[Guitar-Hero]

Agreed

[FredLC]

Pragmatic approach?

Humans are the dominant species. This means you probably won't have the option of getting nobles of other races, specially because they are never the mainly threatened parties in the games - save for dwarves, but as the first games explain, blights seem less urgent in Orzammar because they fight darkspawn all the time. Anyway, there is a noble dwarve option.

I think with so many humble beginnings with other races, it's practical to have your noble archetype with humans. Yes, you could have even more options, but, again... pragmatism, and limitations in the investment.

[JadeDragon]

Also most humble beginning origins for humans don't lead to trained combat. Of course th situation can be worked out but then it'll cross to much into other racial backgrounds. Mercs-dwarf and qunari, merchant-dwarf, barbarian=dalish, city elf and casteless dwarf=poor human(but worse) for the next game though i would like to see human switch it up with Mage nobles and non mage can be non nobles

[Flog the Undying]

Pragmatic approach?

Humans are the dominant species. This means you probably won't have the option of getting nobles of other races, specially because they are never the mainly threatened parties in the games - save for dwarves, but as the first games explain, blights seem less urgent in Orzammar because they fight darkspawn all the time. Anyway, there is a noble dwarve option.

I think with so many humble beginnings with other races, it's practical to have your noble archetype with humans. Yes, you could have even more options, but, again... pragmatism, and limitations in the investment.

 

Doesn't really work in DA2 though. Hawke didn't have to be a noble there.

[Cyrus Amell]

Humans are boring, which is why you need to spice things up with nobility. A human noble will be part of a noble house with a given history and past relations to important figures and etc. the kind of things that make someone interesting without them even opening their mouth. It's the Game of Thrones effect, it makes for a better story if the lead character is more than just one of the average joe types that get slaughtered in the opening cinematic. 

 

And as the above posters mentioned, commoners of the other races tend to be more interesting because you can interject cultural norms and racial prejudices into their backgrounds without too much effort or any risk of offending the human audience. 

 

Yes, you (the person reading this right now) are human!

 

If I recall correctly Bioware did try to make a human commoner story back in Origins (a farmer?) but they scrapped it because they could not make it interesting. 

 

 

Doesn't really work in DA2 though. Hawke didn't have to be a noble there.

 

Technically he wasn't, while his mother was of noble-birth he was largely a commoner until he was able to buy back the Amell Estate and even then he was just a rich adventurer who did odd jobs. It was only when he became Champion of Kirkwall that he for all intents and purposes ascended to nobility and got invited to all those fancy parties. 

 

Also, if the Origional Poster (Amne YA) could edit his first post for typos and grammatical errors that would be much appreciated.

[vertigomez]

^I don't think it was scrapped because it wasn't interesting. The human commoner and human barbarian origins just didn't make the final cut, for some reason. Probably time/budget constraints.

Agreed on all other counts, though. Most other races and origins have the humble and oppressed thing going for them, so the devs probably feel that adding Farmer Joe to the mix is a bit redundant. We did have a taste of it with Hawke, however.

[Andraste_Reborn]

The Avvar origin got cut for time (and because it wasn't connected to anything else in the game) but apparently the human commoner origin just wasn't working out and felt like a big pile of clichés. You were meant to be a farmer near Redcliffe and your farm would get attacked by darkspawn.

 

(Source: David Gaider's tumblr, which is now gone .)

[X Equestris]

^I don't think it was scrapped because it wasn't interesting. The human commoner and human barbarian origins just didn't make the final cut, for some reason. Probably time/budget constraints.
Agreed on all other counts, though. Most other races and origins have the humble and oppressed thing going for them, so the devs probably feel that adding Farmer Joe to the mix is a bit redundant. We did have a taste of it with Hawke, however.

They scrapped human commoner because they felt it was really cliche. The Avvar origin got cut because they couldn't nail down an art style that was distinct from Ferelden's before the deadline.

On-topic, nobles are the ones most likely to have arms training. They had to stretch a little to let the city elf have arms training back in Origins.

[Amne YA]

i realy like the   avar background  Idea   !!  you guys  are  awsome 

[NRieh]

 

hawk was noble

That's...kinda far-fetched. Hawke had been born from a handsome apostate and a runaway Amell daughter (conceived before the marriage), and had lived as a mere peasant\farmer\hunter. So much of the 'nobility'.  

[FredLC]

Doesn't really work in DA2 though. Hawke didn't have to be a noble there.

 

True enough. But Hawk's story is personal, and his/her background, unique. That is the story they wanted to tell, not a canvas of many possibilities.

 

I'm not denying a silly infatuation with nobility titles, I agree that there seems to be one. Eh, perhaps if the story setting was modern, all games would have an option for the human character to be a member of the senate. But it's not the same as the empty vessels of the other games.

[thats1evildude]

To be fair, the Trevelyans are the most minor of minor nobles. What does the Inquisitor say to Josephine? "Oh, you're interested in the eighth most important family in all of Ostwick, are you?"

 

And they're nobles in Ostwick. OSTWICK. Even by Free Marches standards, it's a backwater. They're so bored they roll cheeses for entertainment.

[JeffZero]

Desperately hoping for a human slave origin in DA4. Hard-times backgrounds are my jam.

[Bhryaen]

The "but nobles get training" rationale doesn't fly with me. I mean, training as mages? Training as rogues? You could get those easily with a non-noble background- rogues arguably more likely with a non-noble origin. And warriors? Why not a farmhand who joined the military? Or just a city kid who learned to scrap on the streets? Or a shopkeeper's kid who was trained privately by a friend of the family? The Qunari origin took the merc story out for originality purposes, but why not that as well? Hell, in DA4 one human origin could be a Gray Warden recruit. Use your imagination. You start at Lvl1 anyway- 0XP- so there's no stretch required to account for "advanced training."

 

I agree with the OP that making humans nobles every time is the real cliche- Couslands, Hawkes, and now Trevelyans. I almost never seem to play humans, and this tends to be one of the reasons. If I get to play a Daveth type of human, however, there may be a meaningful draw for me. I hope there are multiple origins in DA4 though- as in DAO- so there can be a choice of origins. Then if players prefer being human nobility for yet a fourth time (and thus super-important), that's there, but there'd be another origin where you're not having to head-canon being a pampered Ken-doll who's been forced to slum it a while.

[Ashaantha]

To be fair, the Trevelyans are the most minor of minor nobles. What does the Inquisitor say to Josephine? "Oh, you're interested in the eighth most important family in all of Ostwick, are you?"

 

And they're nobles in Ostwick. OSTWICK. Even by Free Marches standards, it's a backwater. They're so bored they roll cheeses for entertainment.

 

It is a very large clan apparently, according to Cassandra I think. Also Trevelyan has relatives in Nevarra apparently with enough social standing pull to negotiate with the King there on behalf of the Trevelyan family so the Inquisition can lean on the Archon instead. That's from dialogue, about Tevinter and Nevarra both wanting the Inquisition to boot some Venatori off their border, with Josephine. So I don't think it's quite as minor a Noble family as you're pointing out there. Perhaps in Ostwick itself they're not as powerful, but I couldn't find an Ostwick Free Marches Nobility ranking system, as Trevelyan's father is a Bann but the Marches have a different system of rank then Ferelden does.

[stop_him]

The "but nobles get training" rationale doesn't fly with me. I mean, training as mages? Training as rogues? You could get those easily with a non-noble background- rogues arguably more likely with a non-noble origin. And warriors? Why not a farmhand who joined the military? Or just a city kid who learned to scrap on the streets? Or a shopkeeper's kid who was trained privately by a friend of the family? The Qunari origin took the merc story out for originality purposes, but why not that as well? Hell, in DA4 one human origin could be a Gray Warden recruit. Use your imagination. You start at Lvl1 anyway- 0XP- so there's no stretch required to account for "advanced training."

 

I agree with the OP that making humans nobles every time is the real cliche- Couslands, Hawkes, and now Trevelyans. I almost never seem to play humans, and this tends to be one of the reasons. If I get to play a Daveth type of human, however, there may be a meaningful draw for me. I hope there are multiple origins in DA4 though- as in DAO- so there can be a choice of origins. Then if players prefer being human nobility for yet a fourth time (and thus super-important), that's there, but there'd be another origin where you're not having to head-canon being a pampered Ken-doll who's been forced to slum it a while.

Yes. Human noble is the most boring story of all time. I may actually deign to play a human if Bioware could manage an interesting story for a human PC. But like someone posted above, humans ARE boring, particularly in fantasy games where you're competing with dwarves, elves and qunari. Still, people must like boring because they're the most popular race to play. My bf was going to play one until I suggested he not be boring. He played as a qunari, and actually said he thinks it was a more enjoyable experience than what boring human noble would have got him.

[nemmis]

Of course Humans should be noble for a start were better looking in everyway to a pointy eared elf or a short bearded grumpy dwarves and certainly the horned headed qunari .

With using the Black emporium mirror I looked every inch the Noble leader of my group ,and they thought so too Cassandra fell in love with me and they all followed me everywhere without complaint

[Bhryaen]

Of course Humans should be noble for a start were better looking in everyway to a pointy eared elf or a short bearded grumpy dwarves and certainly the horned headed qunari .

With using the Black emporium mirror I looked every inch the Noble leader of my group ,and they thought so too Cassandra fell in love with me and they all followed me everywhere without complaint

lol Not sure if that was intended as sarcasm, but you got a laugh out of me...

[Amne YA]

Desperately hoping for a human slave origin in DA4. Hard-times backgrounds are my jam.

that's make us 2 , i like to go from a zero  to  a hero 

[Snowy-Ninja]

Desperately hoping for a human slave origin in DA4. Hard-times backgrounds are my jam.

I agree! 

This would make much more sense, I'd be disappointed if they made the human some noble or related to a magister! 

Also Dalish elf might not make much sense, a city elf or elven slave would. 

[Sylvianus]

I tend to think that if the noble background might be " boring, " it's not " because humans are boring or nobles are boring ", it's simply because Bioware uses it often as a blank state, and doesn't do much compared to the potential it could give. Being a noble in DA:I basically doesn't mean much. Zero intrigues, zero privileges shown, zero differences, zero sacrifices that a noble is forced to do, zero servants or soldiers at our service. It's a bit blur to be honest. 

 

Being a Trevelyan basically doesn't change anything compared to an elven inquisitor, ( except gaining 5 approval points from orlesian nobles lol ). What we learn about the trevelyan is bland, our parents are bland, the lines talking about the protagonist and his origins are bland, the content with the noble background is bland. Everything is bland. What does that even mean being a noble in Ostwick ? Why couldn't we see one of our cousins and learn more about our family, the power they hold ? 

 

And I think we shouldn't count Hawk as a noble background. If he comes from a noble blood, everything about him was about being a commoner however, living like a commoner, and getting finally a title as a commoner who proved he was better than others. Things will change for him, but only because he became a hero in the eyes of everyone. I certainly didn't think the story of Hawk as being from a noble human background. There is absolutely nothing in the content otherwise that made me think we played a noble human. 

 

Any background could be totally interesting if it is very well done in my opinion. It's all about the content and how much Bioware wants to invest into the origins and backgrounds. I totally loved the noble origin with the Aeducan for example. While, it isn't a human background, I found the noble background very interesting. It could totally happen to a human too.

 

Also if we are going to play dwarves from the carta, mercenaries with the Qunari, or Dalish, having a noble human background for the sake of variety wouldn't hurt me at all. 

[Bigdoser]

Well considering the location of the next game we may finally get a lower rung human origin option. 

[SurelyForth]

In DAO, it made a lot of sense to have a human noble background, what with Loghain and Howe being the main non-darkspawn antagonists, and the Landsmeet being such an important set-piece in the game. The Couslands were well-drawn characters in their own right (although I would have loved to have gotten Eleanor's backstory in game because holy sh!tsnacks was she awesome).

 

I would argue that Hawke was never nobility. As far as I know, she never petitions to have the Amells restored as a noble house. Even if she did, the trappings of noble birth are completely absent as the foundation of Hawke's story is built on the Hawkes being forced to exist on the fringes of society. Hawke is decidedly underclass until Act 2, and at that point she's just rich and somewhat well-connected. Actually, I'd say that it's her associations with Aveline and Varric that provide her with the most leverage until she becomes the Champion- being the daughter of a former noblewoman and living in a nice house doesn't seem to account for that much in Kirkwall. 

 

As for DAI, I have no idea why they went with the humans being from a noble house. They didn't do a whole lot with any of the origins, so a specific background wasn't that necessary...especially since our characters are spares through and through. The glimpses we get of the Trevelyans are fitfully amusing (what with the cheese-rolling, bar fights, and Great Aunt Lucille), but don't amount to much. In the early drafts of the game, I think there was more stress placed on the different "branches" of the Inquisition, as represented by the advisers. They may have included nobility for players who leaned towards diplomacy/mercantile/Josephine's domain.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Blank slate. Mysterious stranger.

Let us design our own background.