385 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Which also means safety for the surviving mages, that would be better than selling themselves as slaves and losing Ferelden's support while earning their mistrust for siding with a foreign power.

There would by that point, be no surviving mages.

[Andromelek]

Perhaps Alexius told her he could get rid of the Templars, then poof! "Lucius" mysteriously recalls all the Templars back to Therinfall.
 

She never saw such army, the Templars around just disregarded the call to retreat and weren't enough to take over Redcliffe, Fiona said that they began to have more refugees and that some of those were spreading the rumor of the Templars getting close and suggesting that an alliance with Tevinter could be the only answer.

[Xilizhra]

She never saw such army, the Templars around just disregarded the call to retreat and weren't enough to take over Redcliffe, Fiona said that they began to have more refugees and that some of those were spreading the rumor of the Templars getting close and suggesting that an alliance with Tevinter could be the only answer.

No, most of the templar army returned to Val Royeaux. The templars remaining in the Hinterlands are a bunch of deserters, who don't have enough power to take Redcliffe on their own.

[Lumix19]

She never saw such army, the Templars around just disregarded the call to retreat and weren't enough to take over Redcliffe, Fiona said that they began to have more refugees and that some of those were spreading the rumor of the Templars getting close and suggesting that an alliance with Tevinter could be the only answer.

Right. And the Templars obviously were getting close and on their way to Redcliffe, if not already in the Hinterlands. So they weren't exactly lying. I'm just suggesting that Alexius told Fiona he could get rid of them and once the rebels were signed on told "Lucius" not to attack. So they got recalled for their new lyrium treatment.

[Sifr]

No, most of the templar army returned to Val Royeaux. The templars remaining in the Hinterlands are a bunch of deserters, who don't have enough power to take Redcliffe on their own.

 

I always figured that the Templars in the Hinterlands were in the process of massing for an attack in retaliation for the destruction of Conclave (which many thought was the mage's fault), spurring a desperate Fiona to sign the deal with Alexius... and then feel like a complete schmuck when the main body of Templars in the region were recalled shortly afterwards to Val Royeaux, leaving only the deserters behind.

 

Both Corporal Vale and Fiona seem to imply that the Templars were camped outside the door until very recently.

[Lumix19]

I always figured that the Templars in the Hinterlands were in the process of massing for an attack in retaliation for the destruction of Conclave (which many thought was the mage's fault), spurring a desperate Fiona to sign the deal with Alexius... and then feel like a complete schmuck when the main body of Templars in the region were recalled shortly afterwards to Val Royeaux (leaving only the deserters).

I thought that too to be honest. Except I thought that "Lucius" told them to attack to scare the mages into signing on with Alexius. Then recalled them once they had.

[Iakus]

 

 

What does that have to do with anything? Yes, a minority of both sides took up banditry.

 

I dunno.  You brought it up.  Why are templar deserters more worthy of being singled out than rampaging mages?

 

 

This isn't just about Fiona's life, this about the lives of all of her charges. In any case, the indenturing contract is for ten years, as opposed to a lifetime.

 

And White Spire wasn't?  

 

Oh and Liberati in Tevinter also have sharply curtailed rights.  They would have been an underclass even in Tevinter (assuming he wasn't lying from the start anyway, as is so strongly implied Fiona should have seen it coming from a mile away).

 

Out of curiosity, didn't "her charges" also include the Tranquils? How did they benefit from Fiona's deal with the Venatori, exactly?

 

Well, they weren't executed by Templars, at least 

[Iakus]

Although I'm really trying, I can't understand what exactly are you trying to say, so allow me a question: Are you actually saying, that it was OK for Fiona to sacrifice freedom of the mages to save lives?

Might as well have stayed with the Circles, then

[Xilizhra]

I dunno.  You brought it up.  Why are templar deserters more worthy of being singled out than rampaging mages?

They were the evidence for a larger templar army being in the Hinterlands. The others aren't really relevant.

 

 

And White Spire wasn't?  

 

Oh and Liberati in Tevinter also have sharply curtailed rights.  They would have been an underclass even in Tevinter (assuming he wasn't lying from the start anyway, as is so strongly implied Fiona should have seen it coming from a mile away).

Indentured servitude exists under different laws from slavery, so they'd have been laetan once this was over. As for the White Spire, not fighting wouldn't have actually gotten better results by that point.

 

 

Well, they weren't executed by Templars, at least 

The templars already did worse to them, so meh.

 

 

Might as well have stayed with the Circles, then

Indentured servitude actually ends, unlike the Circles.

[TobiTobsen]

I'm still waiting for an answer why people believe that the "templar army" that Fiona was so afraid of should be able to successfully storm Redlciffe Castle.

 

Redcliffe Castle is called "unassailable" by everyone we meet and was only taken three times (by armies far better suited for siege warfare than the Templars) in the hundreds of years it protected the only land route into Ferelden. The Inquisition and the Ferelden army utterly fail to take the castle and they attacked it three times in the bad future.

[Sifr]

I thought that too to be honest. Except I thought that "Lucius" told them to attack to scare the mages into signing on with Alexius. Then recalled them once they had.

 

That actually would make a lot of sense since both were working for Corypheus, as it'd only further his control over both factions. Especially that if Envy had succeeded in "Champions of the Just", that would have also meant the Inquisition would have fallen under Corypheus' control as well.

 

I'm still waiting for an answer why people believe that the "templar army" that Fiona was so afraid of should be able to successfully storm Redlciffe Castle.

 

Redcliffe Castle is called "unassailable" by everyone we meet and was only taken three times (by armies far better suited for siege warfare than the Templars) in the hundreds of years it protected the only land route into Ferelden. The Inquisition and the Ferelden army utterly fail to take the castle and they attacked it three times in the bad future.

 

Alexius had seized control over Redcliffe castle when he kicked out Arl Teagan, it only housed himself and the Venatori.

 

The Mage Rebellion meanwhile were still located in the village, so they'd have no refuge in case of a full-scale attack, since the Templars only had to breach the town wall and the wooden palisades to get at them.

[Andromelek]

The templars already did worse to them, so meh.

At this point Templars were their foes, but Tranquils were killed by the Venatori, who were Fiona's allies and Fiona was the one who allowed it, that's either treachery or a high level of irresponsibility from Fiona, neither is good.

[Tielis]

LOL

 

Tevinter slave -> Mage -> Grey Warden -> Maric's lover ->  cured of the GW taint -> First Enchanter -> Alistair's mom

 

This is why I hate her.  That she turned out to be a moron is just icing on the cake.

[Boost32]

The bitchy attacked me with her fellow rebels, she deserved to get shanked and left to rot under tons of snow.

[Xilizhra]

I'm still waiting for an answer why people believe that the "templar army" that Fiona was so afraid of should be able to successfully storm Redlciffe Castle.

 

Redcliffe Castle is called "unassailable" by everyone we meet and was only taken three times (by armies far better suited for siege warfare than the Templars) in the hundreds of years it protected the only land route into Ferelden. The Inquisition and the Ferelden army utterly fail to take the castle and they attacked it three times in the bad future.

Well, you didn't ask that question, but I already said that I seriously doubt that Teagan would have allowed the mages into the castle. And explained why.

 

 

At this point Templars were their foes, but Tranquils were killed by the Venatori, who were Fiona's allies and Fiona was the one who allowed it, that's either treachery or a high level of responsibility from Fiona, neither is good.

Fiona never allowed the Venatori to kill any Tranquil; she had no actual power in that relationship, and they never told her about it anyway.

[Andromelek]

 
 

Fiona never allowed the Venatori to kill any Tranquil; she had no actual power in that relationship, and they never told her about it anyway.

No but she had eyes and I assume she knew count , at least she had to notice the sudden decrease on Tranquils numbers.

[Illegitimus]

Although I'm really trying, I can't understand what exactly are you trying to say, so allow me a question: Are you actually saying, that it was OK for Fiona to sacrifice freedom of the mages to save lives?

 

Had the offer been legit, 10 years of indenture followed by freedom wouldn't have been such a bad deal.  

[The Baconer]

Had the offer been legit, 10 years of indenture followed by freedom wouldn't have been such a bad deal.  

 

From what we know of Tevinter law, they would have never gained full citizenship.

[Sifr]

No but she had eyes and I assume she knew count , at least she had to notice the sudden decrease on Tranquils numbers.

 

I pointed out on the previous page that the "official" story was that Alexius ordered them along with the mundanes to get out of Redcliffe, Clemence the Tranquil and the female Chantry priestess both mention this when we speak to them. Fiona, nor anyone else in the Rebellion had any reason to suspect they were being murdered indiscriminately by the Venatori.

[Iakus]

They were the evidence for a larger templar army being in the Hinterlands. The others aren't really relevant.

 

Tell that to the innocent bystanders.  But at any rate, would't the mages be signs of, you know, a larger mage force being in the Hinterlands?

 

 

 

Indentured servitude exists under different laws from slavery, so they'd have been laetan once this was over. As for the White Spire, not fighting wouldn't have actually gotten better results by that point.

Citation needed on indentured servitude.  As for White Spire, She picked that fight to begin with.  She was willing to die and take the entire White Spire, as well as the entire Circle leadership down with her then.  And likely incur even more brutal restrictions against the surviving Circles.  

 

I didn't like her then, but at least she stood up for her beliefs.  Now, she folds in a situation where she's actually in a stronger position.  I'm thinking Vivienne was right and "her dementia is showing"

 

 

 

The templars already did worse to them, so meh.

 

Heck the mages could have cured them at any time.  

 

 

Indentured servitude actually ends, unlike the Circles.

Unless your master decides to use you, including your children, as cannon fodder.

[Barquiel]

Her role was a bit disappointing (at least some war table missions after "Hushed Whispers" would have been nice), but I don't mind her. The rebellion was necessary and the Templars were at the negotiating table, so she was at least partially successful. After that, things went south though (but that wasn't exactly Fiona's fault), and she was in a desperate situation. She wanted to do the right thing for her mages, to protect them from being slaughtered by the Templars...and being indentured servants for 10 years is still better than being dead or tranquility. I can't fault her for taking one of the only options of alliance avaliable. Now the Templars experimenting with red lyrium, even after they knew what it did to people in Kirkwall? That I can fault.

[TobiTobsen]

Well, you didn't ask that question, but I already said that I seriously doubt that Teagan would have allowed the mages into the castle. And explained why

 

I asked that question the last two threads with the same topic and always got some kind of... "interesting" answer.

 

"He wouldn't let them into the castle because bad memories" - Wait, what? He can have all the bad memories he wants (which is never mentioned anywhere, btw.), his King offered the mages sanctuary. Sanctuary as in "we will garantuee for your security" not "I feel a bit iffy about this, better let you folks get butchered outside my castle walls while I watch". NOTHING indicates that Teagan would've reacted as you think he would have.

 

But you know who let them stay in the village, while the Templar deserters were harrasing them? Alexius.

[Xilizhra]

Tell that to the innocent bystanders.  But at any rate, would't the mages be signs of, you know, a larger mage force being in the Hinterlands?

Yes. Specifically, in Redcliffe. Except that there are far fewer mages than templars, and the rogue mages had to hire other random bandits who couldn't really stand up to the templars themselves (one letter mentions this).

 

Citation needed on indentured servitude.  As for White Spire, She picked that fight to begin with.  She was willing to die and take the entire White Spire, as well as the entire Circle leadership down with her then.  And likely incur even more brutal restrictions against the surviving Circles.

Lambert was cracking down on the White Spire with or without Fiona. As for indentured servitude, the fact that it isn't slavery is something of an indication.

 

I didn't like her then, but at least she stood up for her beliefs.  Now, she folds in a situation where she's actually in a stronger position.  I'm thinking Vivienne was right and "her dementia is showing"

Her position here is not stronger.

 

Heck the mages could have cured them at any time.

Because summoning spirits would not have gotten them thrown out of Redcliffe?

 

Unless your master decides to use you, including your children, as cannon fodder.

Something that wouldn't have happened had the Venatori not planned on attacking southern Thedas, and since Fiona didn't even know the Venatori existed, there'd be no reason to believe that.

 

 

I asked that question the last two threads with the same topic and always got some kind of... "interesting" answer.

 

"He wouldn't let them into the castle because bad memories" - Wait, what? He can have all the bad memories he wants (which is never mentioned anywhere, btw.), his King offered the mages sanctuary. Sanctuary as in "we will garantuee for your security" not "I feel a bit iffy about this, better let you folks get butchered outside my castle walls while I watch". NOTHING indicates that Teagan would've reacted as you think he would have.

 

But you know who let them stay in the village, while the Templar deserters were harrasing them? Alexius.

Alistair/Anora gave them sanctuary, not Teagan. Teagan has no obligation to let them into the castle.

[Qun00]

The only real issue is the bad timing, not the rebellion itself.

As it was said in Origins: "Andraste waged war on the Imperium; she didn't write them a strongly worded letter. "

[diaspora2k5]

The only real issue is the bad timing, not the rebellion itself.

As it was said in Origins: "Andraste waged war on the Imperium; she didn't write them a strongly worded letter. "

IIRC in World of Thedas, Maferath waged war on the Imperium. Andraste was the branding/marketing.