385 réponses à ce sujet

[duckley]

I guess part of my disrespect of Fiona comes from the fact that she called for a vote by the mages - despite a promising reform option set forth by Wynn and Devine Justinia. With the narrowest of margins,  she sent Mages (naïve to ways of the world, untrained in battle) to fight Templars - in essence to their deaths.

 

It was premature on Fiona's part to hold a vote. The suffering of Mages was apparently not universal....and there were other options to reform the Circle at the time.

 

She created the situation in some respects that "forced" her to send all mages (pro or con rebellion) to become Trevinter slaves....

[Nixou]

For point one, maybe they should have thought about that before rebelling. I'm pro-mage, but the rebellion was very poorly planned out.

 

Yeah, but the mage rebellion is about centuries of prejudice and mistreatment reaching the boiling point. I'm pretty sure we'll see something similar with the Elves who joined Solas' crusade: we'll discover that they didn't plan things out and were driven by irrational revanchism more than anything else.

[Vit246]

... and nobody's blaming bad writing here?

 

Fiona was always a bit reckless, but she was also an uncompromising leader who detested slavery, so I would have expected that to be a hard line for her. Selling out to Tevinter doesn't make much sense given her convictions. I can understand the strain of losing the mage-templar war would force her to consider a compromise, or a weaker position, or a truce - hence the willingness to attend the conclave - but surely there must be other alternatives to indentured slavery? Surely, given the lack of options and the rise of the Inquisition, the reasonable choice would be to jump onto the back of that straight away? An organisation which rides off the back of chantry legitimacy - through Justinia's writ - without actually being part of it, in dire need of magical assistance, currently without allies? Sounds like a far better choice than Alexius.

 

Rather, I think it's much more likely that the writers needed to introduce a number of crucial elements to the plot - Tevinter, Alexius, the Venatori, and Dorian - but struggled to do so without sacrificing Fiona's character. It's sloppy.

 

I am chalking most of it up to Bioware's reasoning that every quest must somehow absolutely involve and end up in combat and boss fights.

The reason why the Venatori show up? So you can have a reason to kill shite.

Who cares about....I dunno....actually meeting Fiona at the most defensible castle in Ferelden and negotiating the terms of an alliance? Thats boring.

ENEMIES! We need enemies! I know! Lets have Alexius use fraking time travel magic to insert his Venatori goons and have Fiona stripped of all agency and character.

Seriously, Fiona gave up the protection of the best castle in Ferelden and whatever immediate troops stationed there, granted by the monarchy, in exchange for questionable help from a Magister.

[Iakus]

I am chalking most of it up to Bioware's reasoning that every quest must somehow absolutely involve and end up in combat and boss fights.

The reason why the Venatori show up? So you can have a reason to kill shite.

Who cares about....I dunno....actually meeting Fiona at the most defensible castle in Ferelden and negotiating the terms of an alliance? Thats boring.

ENEMIES! We need enemies! I know! Lets have Alexius use fraking time travel magic to insert his Venatori goons and have Fiona stripped of all agency and character.

Seriously, Fiona gave up the protection of the best castle in Ferelden and whatever immediate troops stationed there, granted by the monarchy, in exchange for questionable help from a Magister.

Eh, it could still have gone the way it did without wrecking her character.  Maybe she worked out a favorable alliance and was betrayed by Alexius.  Maybe she was deposed by hardline Tevinterphiles within her own people.  Maybe she was influenced by blood magic.  Or the venatori had hostages.  

 

We could still have had Venatori enemies to fight.  Even time travel.  And still give Fiona two brain cells to rub together.

[Nixou]

Who cares about....I dunno....actually meeting Fiona at the most defensible castle in Ferelden and negotiating the terms of an alliance? Thats boring.

 

 

Yeah! Right! What do you think this is? Star Trek?

 

[introverted_assassin]

Ultimately, she made a very bad decision out of her desperation that would have only ended up getting all the mages killed if the Inquisitor hadn't intervened. Is death really better than the circle? As someone who played a mage Hawke who supported Anders and supported what he did- I understand that Fiona was forced into a situation that wasn't any good. But her handling of the bad situation was inept. Sell them basically into slavery?? That was her bright idea?

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

I saw my opportunity and took it. carry on.

[lil yonce]

I'm with Xil. The hatred of Fiona is in most instances irrational. I write that as someone who used to loathe her. Why did I hate her? Its a natural extension of accepting templar/chantry authoritarianism. I escaped that forever ago now, and thank goodness. I can see things for what they are.

[demonicdivas]

It's not unjustified hate. She sold mages into a fate just as bad as Templars. And then, when the Inquisitor saves her sorry ass, she is as arrogant as you please, even demanding to negotiate with you the terms of the agreement. 

 

Then, you don't get the option to put her in her place, the Inquisitor has to be all smiley nice about it. I'm offering an alliance to the mages, not to her!

 

If Alistair is King, it's equally boggling how she'd trade part of her own son's kingdom to a Tevinter magister. She in no way has the acumen or skills to be a Grand Enchanter. 

[Bleachrude]

I'm not sure I would agree with the idea that Bioware did a disservice by making her "stupid:..

 

This _IS_ the Grand Enchanter who with a Divine was very open to working with mages to make life better actually said "**** the Divine".

She was never presented as a diplomatic force....

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I don't hate her for DAI. I hate her for everything about her in The Calling and Asunder. Although what we see from her in the game is a disappointment too. In the pro-mage playthrough, she just stands around and in pro-templar, she just dies.

 

What a badass Warden. /s

[Big I]

"Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

 

"That is evidently an acceptable trade."

 

What got me about Fiona is how unrepentant she is about where her decisions led her. She even tells the Inquisitor how proud she is of what she did. Excuse me? If not for me you would have sold the southern mages into servitude to a Tevinter magister. Mages like Connor and Sketch, forced to fight and die for Corypheus, all because of her decisions. At least the templars know they screwed up.

 

And then, if you recruit the Wardens, she badmouths them as well. Screw you Fiona, wish I could have Sat in Judgement over you.

[Br3admax]

You know Fiona's been pretty irrelevant since February, when everyone stopped caring about that thirty minutes in DA:I. Who exactly has been talking about her enough to warrant bringing up this topic?

[Illegitimus]

I guess part of my disrespect of Fiona comes from the fact that she called for a vote by the mages - despite a promising reform option set forth by Wynn and Devine Justinia. With the narrowest of margins,  she sent Mages (naïve to ways of the world, untrained in battle) to fight Templars - in essence to their deaths.

 

It was premature on Fiona's part to hold a vote. The suffering of Mages was apparently not universal....and there were other options to reform the Circle at the time.

 

Not a lot.  The attack on Justinia was precisely so she wouldn't be able to sell a reform of the Chantry system.  

[Nefla]

I don't feel enough of anything about her to hate her, she barely sticks in my mind at all. Definitely not a well developed character in the game.

[Andromelek]

If Alistair is King, it's equally boggling how she'd trade part of her own son's kingdom to a Tevinter magister. She in no way has the acumen or skills to be a Grand Enchanter.

As I recall, her status as Grand Enchanter is due her "experience" out of the Circle, sadly the Wardens did not cut her throat for being a deserter as they should have done, I would be more concerned of her ingratitude towards Anora, since Duncan told Alistair about his life, surely he told him about Fiona, so, ha had a personal reason to let her stay, Anora didn't have any personal reason.

[riverbanks]

You know Fiona's been pretty irrelevant since February, when everyone stopped caring about that thirty minutes in DA:I. Who exactly has been talking about her enough to warrant bringing up this topic?

 

lol this thread was literally started because of a couple of peripheral mentions of her on this page on another thread. Our bud Xil just can't stand to see people not worshipping Fiona's every step without making a whole crusade in her defense out of it.

[Drasanil]

As I recall, her status as Grand Enchanter is due her "experience" out of the Circle, 1. sadly the Wardens did not cut her throat for being a deserter as they should have done, I would be more concerned of her ingratitude towards Anora, 2. since Duncan told Alistair about his life, surely he told him about Fiona, so, ha had a personal reason to let her stay, Anora didn't have any personal reason.

 

1) Bloody hell. For once, just once, I will defend Fiona (thanks for that, no I'm serious thanks   ), to be fair she tells you herself she wasn't a deserter. She was cured of the blight and subsequent joinings had no effect, so the Wardens dismissed her from the order. She didn't desert, nor did the Wardens have cause to believe she did.

 

2) Well, no. Alistair genuinely believes Goldanna is his sister, Duncan [or Eamon] told him somethings about his past, namely the relevant bit of being the King's bastard, but they certainly did not tell him who the real mother was. Or else Alistair wouldn't give two figs about Goldanna, unless you think he was just pulling off an elaborate ruse trying to convince the Warden, for no particular reason, that someone they never met or knew of was his mother as opposed to someone else the Warden never met or knew of instead and subsequently let the Warden effect their view on life [ie: hardening or not] for the purposes of that ruse.

[Andromelek]

1) Bloody hell. For once, just once, I will defend Fiona (thanks for that, no I'm serious thanks ), to be fair she tells you herself she wasn't a deserter. She was cured of the blight and subsequent joinings had no effect, so the Wardens dismissed her from the order. She didn't desert, nor did the Wardens have cause to believe she did.

2) Well, no. Alistair genuinely believes Goldanna is his sister, Duncan [or Eamon] told him somethings about his past, namely the relevant bit of being the King's bastard, but they certainly did not tell him who the real mother was. Or else Alistair wouldn't give two figs about Goldanna, unless you think he was just pulling off an elaborate ruse trying to convince the Warden, for no particular reason, that someone they never met or knew of was his mother as opposed to someone else the Warden never met or knew of instead and subsequently let the Warden effect their view on life [ie: hardening or not] for the purposes of that ruse.

LOL? So now people lets aside their hate just to argue with me?

1-The reason of why they kill deserters is often because they can have a big mouth, that said, depends who is the Warden Commander in charge, Jordy wasn't a Warden and got killed for knowing their secrets, so, more or less would be something similar with Fiona, non-member who knows too much, and her stupidity is not a point on her favour exactly.

2-Bad thing with Alistair's stubborn defenders is that they often see things where there is nothing (main reason of why they still denying his faults, I guess) You are saying that I suggested he knew she was his mother, I certainly didn't, the dude even knows about the real Blackwall, you really think Duncan didn't told him about Fiona? No, it is not like Alistair thought that mommy was at home (in that case he likely wouldn't kick her out even after the Venatori) is more like he saw a Duncan's friend in need of aid and decided to help her, you like it or not, there is more merit on helping a stranger than helping a dude who is friend of a friend.

[kimgoold]

Fiona. She has the bald faced nerve to tell the inquisitor "I wouldn't have given the Wardens, Alexius, etc another chance!! REALLY she is such a hypocrite. After reading DA books I found her to be insufferable as a character with little  or no redeeming qualities. (except giving birth to Alistair).

 

She doesn't care about the Tranquil at all, the woman has eyes and ears, she has to have heard all the people talking about travellers being killed on the roads and she just lets the defenseless Tranquil skip out of town with no protection whatsoever! Please.

 

And signing free people into servitude without allowing each individual to decide for themselves is hardly the actions of a person who declared the rebellion only after everyone said they wanted one.

 

And how she has no interest in meeting Warden Alistair but sidles up to inquisitor about KING Alistair makes my blood boil.

 

And many other fine points made by others on this thread.

[guntar74]

My main issue with her is she remains in a leadership role within the mages if u go pro mage. Any leader who sells out all of their followers into slavery needs to be striped of rank and privilege asap. I really wanted an exile to tevinter option for her

[Xilizhra]

My main issue with her is she remains in a leadership role within the mages if u go pro mage. Any leader who sells out all of their followers into slavery needs to be striped of rank and privilege asap. I really wanted an exile to tevinter option for her

She had no rank or privilege to begin with; "Grand Enchanter" ceased to be an actual title with the dissolving of the Circle. She was only the leader of the rebellion by default.

[Drasanil]

LOL? So now people lets aside their hate just to argue with me?

1-The reason of why they kill deserters is often because they can have a big mouth, that said, depends who is the Warden Commander in charge, Jordy wasn't a Warden and got killed for knowing their secrets, so, more or less would be something similar with Fiona, non-member who knows too much, and her stupidity is not a point on her favour exactly.

 

Reading your reply it's pretty clear you don't actually understand what a deserter is.  So, go take a remedial English class and then we can talk about whether or not "I am setting aside my hate" for the sole purpose of arguing with you.

 

2-Bad thing with Alistair's stubborn defenders is that they often see things where there is nothing (main reason of why they still denying his faults, I guess) You are saying that I suggested he knew she was his mother, I certainly didn't, the dude even knows about the real Blackwall, you really think Duncan didn't told him about Fiona? No, it is not like Alistair thought that mommy was at home (in that case he likely wouldn't kick her out even after the Venatori) is more like he saw a Duncan's friend in need of aid and decided to help her, you like it or not, there is more merit on helping a stranger than helping a dude who is friend of a friend.

 

Have you actually played DA:O? Because your argument only makes sense if you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't even be putting it forward for serious consideration. It's pretty clear in game Alistair does not know Fiona is his mother, given he genuinely believes Goldanna is his sister. He bought the whole "your mother was a servant at Redcliff" hook, line and sinker. So it's rather obvious Duncan did not tell him who Fiona was. 

[Iakus]

She had no rank or privilege to begin with; "Grand Enchanter" ceased to be an actual title with the dissolving of the Circle. She was only the leader of the rebellion by default.

THen she had no right to cut a deal with Alexius.  Certainly not on behalf of the other rebel mages.

[Andromelek]

Reading your reply it's pretty clear you don't actually understand what a deserter is. So, go take a remedial English class and then we can talk about whether or not "I am setting aside my hate" for the sole purpose of arguing with you.


Have you actually played DA:O? Because your argument only makes sense if you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't even be putting it forward for serious consideration. It's pretty clear in game Alistair does not know Fiona is his mother, given he genuinely believes Goldanna is his sister. He bought the whole "your mother was a servant at Redcliff" hook, line and sinker. So it's rather obvious Duncan did not tell him who Fiona was.

1-I understand what a deserter is, maybe I wasn't clear enough on my last post, Fiona is not a deserter as Jordy technically is not a deserter either, but both knew things about the Wardens and that was enough reason to kill them.

2-I have played DAO many times, but tell me, Oh native english speaker, and unmatched expert of Dragon Age's lore, are you actually reading? because I didn't say at any time that he knows she's his mother , what I said is that he may be aware of Fiona being Duncan's friend ; Goldanna just has nothing to do with the stories that Duncan has told to Alistair.

[Drasanil]

1-I understand what a deserter is, maybe I wasn't clear enough on my last post, Fiona is not a deserter as Jordy technically is not a deserter either, but both knew things about the Wardens and that was enough reason to kill them.

 

Either you don't or you purposefully implied she somehow abandoned her post when you knew that was clearly not the case, either way you slice it, it hardly makes you look credible.  As for what sets Fiona and Jory apart, Jory tried to leave once he found out what it entailed, where as Fiona to all intents and purposes served adequately until she was cured. That made her no longer fit for service, there is quite a bit of difference. It would be no different a situation than a modern soldier being wounded in action and no longer being fit for service, you don't see many of those getting charged with desertion do you?

 

As to whether or not the Wardens should have killed her any ways, just because of she knew their secrets. Why? She was a Warden in good standing, if knowing the secrets was enough to cut someone's throat, why would the Warden ever let anyone wander around to recruit people like Duncan did they might just blab out things to anyone caring to hear?

 

2-I have played DAO many times, but tell me, Oh native english speaker, and unmatched expert of Dragon Age's lore, are you actually reading? because I didn't say at any time that he knows she's his mother , what I said is that he may be aware of Fiona being Duncan's friend ; Goldanna just has nothing to do with the stories that Duncan has told to Alistair.

 

Then how about actually making that clear in your original response, as opposed to replying to a post that mentions Alistair being FIona's son and saying "Duncan must of told him about her". Because the written implication is pretty clear. As for your second reply, my bad I should have paid attention, but didn't bother after your whole deliberately misusing deserter thing.