385 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromelek]

Either you don't or you purposefully implied she somehow abandoned her post when you knew that was clearly not the case, either way you slice it, it hardly makes you look credible.  As for what sets Fiona and Jory apart, Jory tried to leave once he found out what it entailed, where as Fiona to all intents and purposes served adequately until she was cured. That made her no longer fit for service, there is quite a bit of difference. It would be no different a situation than a modern soldier being wounded in action and no longer being fit for service, you don't see many of those getting charged with desertion do you?
 
As to whether or not the Wardens should have killed her any ways, just because of she knew their secrets. Why? She was a Warden in good standing, if knowing the secrets was enough to cut someone's throat, why would the Warden ever let anyone wander around to recruit people like Duncan did they might just blab out things to anyone caring to hear?
 

Then how about actually making that clear in your original response, as opposed to replying to a post that mentions Alistair being FIona's son and saying "Duncan must of told him about her". Because the written implication is pretty clear. As for your second reply, my bad I should have paid attention, but didn't bother after your whole deliberately misusing deserter thing.

Fine, I see logic on point number one, still, I won't forgive her since she was troublesome enough for being a stupid responsible of begin a war without having a plan to actually fight it. For point two, I assume you misunderstood the meaning of the sentence, I said that I would care more for Anora than for Alistair because Anora doesn't have any personal reason to support her while Alistair does, Fiona being Duncan's friend was the argument since the beginning, as I said on the other thread, I was uncertain whether or not someone out of Maric and Fiona was aware of the truth.

[thetinyevil]

There is also the fact Fiona wasn't just protecting the mages from the templars with that deal but was also thinking of the people of Redcliff. The templars would have attacked Redcliff if they hadn't been called back by Lord Seeker and when they did they wouldn't have bothered to determine if someone was a mage or not. The templars would have gone in and killed everyone in Redcliff down to the last man, woman, and child. Even Teagen would have been killed.

 

It would have been a "Kill them all and let the Maker sort them out".

 

I don't think anyone could have done better in the situation.

[Nixou]

Jordy wasn't a Warden and got killed for knowing their secrets

 

 

Jordy was a Warden: you become a Grey Warden the second a senior Warden wave the Right of Conscription.

 

That's why Rainier Trespasser papers read:

Status: Recruited

Joining: Survived

 

The fact that recruitment and surviving the Joining are two distinct items show that as far as the Wardens are concerned, conscripts & recruits belong to them even before they drink the mixture.

[MisterJB]

If Fiona had few options, it was due to her own ineptitude.
She begins this rebelion with no allies, no funds, no resources, no spies. In fact, she activelly burns bridges with her attitude "plough the Divine".

Predictably, the mages lose hard and by DAI, their attitude shifts to "please save us, Divine" with Ferelden being the only reason the mages haven't lost yet.

And then she decides to burn yet another bridge by stabbing Ferelden in the back on the hopes that Magister who conveniently showed up two days after the Divine's murder will be true to his word.

And ultimately, the only way for the rebellion to be even marginally sucessfull is if people more important than Fiona decides they are worth more alive.

Furthermore, let us not forget that the rebellion was started on the basis that mages can be trusted to police themselves (ignores the mages supremacists burnimg people for fun in the Hinterlands) and won't bring about a new Tevinter (sides with Tevinter).

So, Fiona begins a rebellion in the worst possible manner, is humbled by her enemies, constantly relies on powers outside of the rebellion for survival ( Tevinter, Ferelden, Inquisition) betrays the very ideals she fought for, sells her people into slavery, etc.
And her response?
"I would do it all over again."

Killing her is cleansing the Thedosian gene pool.

[Nixou]

And then she decides to burn yet another bridge by stabbing Ferelden in the back on the hopes that Magister who conveniently showed up two days after the Divine's murder will be true to his word.

 

 

Chances are that, had he not been enthralled by Corypheus, Alexius (the guy used to be Dorian's role model after all) would have remained true to his word.

 

Her behavior in Asunder was much more untenable: there she was clearly lusting for a fight she couldn't win. In Inquisition, her people were holed up in Redclife, while Templars were going on a rampage in the countryside (thus robbing her followers of the possibility to police themselves, since they'd be slain by Templars if they even attempted to leave Redclife to go after the mage supremacists burninating the peasants), the Fereldan monarch had granted asylum to the mages against the nobility and commoners' wishes*, and the last attempt at diplomacy at literally blown up in everyone's faces.

 

Fiona throwing in her lot with one of the few honorable Magisters wasn't a stupid decision, just one based on outdated information.

 

*unless the HoF was a mage, in which case we get something like two lines by NPCs stating that they kinda understand that the king/queen feel they owe a debt of gratitude to mages since "one of them" slayed the Archdemon. And even in this case, the popular goodwill toward the mages is obviously running thin by the time the Inquisition reaches the Hinterlands.

 

***

 

Killing her is cleansing the Thedosian gene pool. 

 

 

Too late

[ShadowLordXII]

If Fiona had few options, it was due to her own ineptitude.
She begins this rebelion with no allies, no funds, no resources, no spies. In fact, she activelly burns bridges with her attitude "plough the Divine".

Predictably, the mages lose hard and by DAI, their attitude shifts to "please save us, Divine" with Ferelden being the only reason the mages haven't lost yet.

And then she decides to burn yet another bridge by stabbing Ferelden in the back on the hopes that Magister who conveniently showed up two days after the Divine's murder will be true to his word.

And ultimately, the only way for the rebellion to be even marginally sucessfull is if people more important than Fiona decides they are worth more alive.

Furthermore, let us not forget that the rebellion was started on the basis that mages can be trusted to police themselves (ignores the mages supremacists burnimg people for fun in the Hinterlands) and won't bring about a new Tevinter (sides with Tevinter).

So, Fiona begins a rebellion in the worst possible manner, is humbled by her enemies, constantly relies on powers outside of the rebellion for survival ( Tevinter, Ferelden, Inquisition) betrays the very ideals she fought for, sells her people into slavery, etc.
And her response?
"I would do it all over again."

Killing her is cleansing the Thedosian gene pool.

 

In all fairness, the war's start was forced by the idiocy of Anders in Kirkwall.

 

Viv's perspective may not be the most valid or unbiased, but she was right about how Anders' actions ensured that the public would be justified in their distrust of mages and starting the war right after Anders' stupidity just compounded the problem.

 

Of course, this doesn't excuse Fiona's stupidity in Redcliffe, but give proper credit where credit is due.

[MisterJB]

Don't you dare suggest that my precious baby boy has any relation to that brainless and gutless elf, Nixou.

[Andromelek]

 
Too late

If we are going to hunt defective genes; It's not too late because of that, it is too late because of this .

[Boost32]

If we are going to hunt defective genes; It's not too late because of that, it is too late because of this .

That one can be killed too. In my world state, Fiona genes have been cleansed along with her spawn, so Thedas is safe.

[Ryzaki]

Yikes. Alistair wasn't that bad.

[kimgoold]

Thats Harsh, Alistair doesn't deserve to be tarred just because he's related to Fiona the brainless (and spineless) wonder

[Andromelek]

Yikes. Alistair wasn't that bad.

Ignorant peasant that plays to be victim whenever he can, without admitting any part of his fault, awful tactician, ungrateful (and he does fall into treachery), and still wants to pretend he is a good person...I think he's that bad.

Thats Harsh, Alistair doesn't deserve to be tarred just because he's related to Fiona the brainless (and spineless) wonder

I actually think his idiocy is genetic, all the other things he did it himself, not exactly because his bloodline but his faults look pretty similar to Fiona's.

[demonicdivas]

As I recall, her status as Grand Enchanter is due her "experience" out of the Circle, sadly the Wardens did not cut her throat for being a deserter as they should have done, I would be more concerned of her ingratitude towards Anora, since Duncan told Alistair about his life, surely he told him about Fiona, so, ha had a personal reason to let her stay, Anora didn't have any personal reason.

 

Regardless of any individual feelings towards Alistair, no he does not know who his mother is. Fiona, Duncan et al have gone to great lengths to make sure it stays that way, for the same reason Michel de Chevin's elven heritage is kept secret (the difference being he knows). Neither of them look particularly elfy imo so they get away with it.

 

It suits some people's headcanon to have him find out who his mother is, which is fair enough and a personal choice. But for BioWare to date, Alistair and the rest of the world will keep assuming Goldanna's mother is also his. 

[Ryzaki]

Ignorant peasant that plays to be victim whenever he can, without admitting any part of his fault, awful tactician, ungrateful (and he does fall into treachery), and still wants to pretend he is a good person...I think he's that bad.

 

Ice cold D:

[Andromelek]

Regardless of any individual feelings towards Alistair, no he does not know who his mother is. Fiona, Duncan et al have gone to great lengths to make sure it stays that way, for the same reason Michel de Chevin's elven heritage is kept secret (the difference being he knows). Neither of them look particularly elfy imo so they get away with it.
 
It suits some people's headcanon to have him find out who his mother is, which is fair enough and a personal choice. But for BioWare to date, Alistair and the rest of the world will keep assuming Goldanna's mother is also his.

*Slaps his face* Another one who does not pay attention, I'll say it once more, I never meant he knew Fiona was his mother, I meant that he surely knows Fiona was Duncan's friend.

[Iakus]

Thats Harsh, Alistair doesn't deserve to be tarred just because he's related to Fiona the brainless (and spineless) wonder

Yeah, Alistair may have inherited her brains, but not her arrogance.

[Boost32]

Thats Harsh, Alistair doesn't deserve to be tarred just because he's related to Fiona the brainless (and spineless) wonder

He is spineless and brainless.

[The Baconer]

Chances are that, had he not been enthralled by Corypheus, Alexius (the guy used to be Dorian's role model after all) would have remained true to his word.

 

He wouldn't have gone to Ferelden to offer the mages anything, if that had been the case.

[riverbanks]

I actually think his idiocy is genetic, all the other things he did it himself, not exactly because his bloodline but his faults look pretty similar to Fiona's.

To be fair, Alistair's faults are a lot more similar to Maric's than Fiona's. He got stupid genes from both sides, but Alistair's main problem is Maric's chronic avoidance, not Fiona's perpetual victim complex.

And to be completely fair, Alistair's issues are actually fixable in-game - when you tell him to grow up, he does. Unlike both his parents, who live and die like angry teenagers who want to be treated like adults, but refuse to take responsibility for themselves as adults should, Alistair at least knows when it's time to grow up and stop blaming the big bad world for everything.

[Boost32]

To be fair, Alistair's faults are a lot more similar to Maric's than Fiona's. He got stupid genes from both sides, but Alistair's main problem is Maric's chronic avoidance, not Fiona's perpetual victim complex.
And to be completely fair, Alistair's issues are actually fixable in-game - when you tell him to grow up, he does. Unlike both his parents, who live and die like angry teenagers who want to be treated like adults, but refuse to take responsibility for themselves as adults should, Alistair at least knows when it's time to grow up and stop blaming the big bad world for everything.

"Give me the crown so I can kill this man!", perfect example of maturity.

[Sylvianus]

To be fair, Alistair's faults are a lot more similar to Maric's than Fiona's. He got stupid genes from both sides, but Alistair's main problem is Maric's chronic avoidance, not Fiona's perpetual victim complex.

And to be completely fair, Alistair's issues are actually fixable in-game - when you tell him to grow up, he does. Unlike both his parents, who live and die like angry teenagers who want to be treated like adults, but refuse to take responsibility for themselves as adults should, Alistair at least knows when it's time to grow up and stop blaming the big bad world for everything.

 

Maric grew up, and already in the end of the first book. The biggest example being that he killed his own love, Katriel, despite his feelings, because of her treason, and because it was his duty as the legitimate king of Ferelden, because it was justice and he couldn't afford his personal feelings to win over the right thing to do. I'm pretty sure this is the reaction of an adult and not just an angry teenager.  

 

When I see how some fangirls react with Solas and Anders despite what they did, I'm pretty sure that most of us wouldn't be able to do such thing with our love interest if we discovered the same thing.  

[Nixou]

He wouldn't have gone to Ferelden to offer the mages anything, if that had been the case.

 

Or he could have gone simply because he felt it was the right thing to do. The big tragedy of Alexius is that he was a benevolent man until his wife's death, so, a non-widowed Alexius traveling all the way to Ferelden to offer a genuine aid to the rebel mages wouldn't have been out of character.

[Fearsome1]

I liked Fiona, loved the characters look and voice actor and really wished that she had done something other than stand around in the Skyhold library. In fact with two potential mage lightning rods present for Vivienne to spout off at, neither Fiona or Morrigan ever managed to get Madame de Fer's attention?

 

Fiona should have been an agent option [liked Ser Barris], despite Gereon Alexius potentially filling that role from In Hushed Whispers!!

[The Baconer]

Or he could have gone simply because he felt it was the right thing to do. The big tragedy of Alexius is that he was a benevolent man until his wife's death, so, a non-widowed Alexius traveling all the way to Ferelden to offer a genuine aid to the rebel mages wouldn't have been out of character.

 

But it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. Alexius knows his countrymen would never be interested in giving the Southern mages a fair deal, for they would just be derided and exploited.

[Nixou]

But it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. Alexius knows his countrymen would never be interested in giving the Southern mages a fair deal, for they would just be derided and exploited.

 

Neither Soporati nor Laetan mages would dare lift a finger against refugees under a Magister's protection and I don't picture his colleagues openly trying to antagonize him by sending slave hunters after his protégés.