399 réponses à ce sujet

[BSpud]

So over the top, they're parodying themselves at this point.

[JadeDragon]

I feel neutral about krem. Ser Barris was more interesting and would have much rathered him at skyhold to talk to like how fiona is there. Besides the war table missions he gives us which only consist of him giving the same dialogue no real convo on the exact mission Krem just wasn't involved enough for me to care about. Sure we got to talk and get a little backstory on him but as I pointed out Ser Barris who is only available in one mission and a half missions and one promotion moment had more memorable moments. If Krem was more involved in Bulls mission besides dying or retreating and as some mentioned showed emotion for there friend then i would care more. The fact i can kill the chargers and not miss Krem is what makes him neutral with me. Not Krem fault its the writers. Honestly how many people would care as much about krem if he wasn't trans? im sure most now can say they don't but if that didn't happen Krem would only be known as that guy from the chargers we talk to. Literally Krem biggest moment is the unshocking reveal. I hope Mae is a companion for DA4 and really shines as a character because of her personality first and has a character arc not surrounding her gender unless they decide to take a leap and make her a romance then they can get over that bridge.

[BabyPuncher]

He represents progress, however small.

 

Delusion and hypocrisy are not progress.
 

[Emerald Rift]

Maevaris was far better.

 

 

I would love it if she appears in DA4 especially if she's a companion. Krem is OK just a bit too much in the background perhaps a bit more development.

[Heathen Oxman]

I was neutral towards Krem and didn't care about him one way or the other.

 

Then again, I'm cool with transgendered people, and don't get my panties in a wad over "inclusiveness."    

[CrimsonN7]

Not only would she make an absolutely amazing companion, but the rage-storm on the boards would likely be hilarious.

 

Seeing some of the responses in this thread... I really wish she was involved now. Hopefully in DA4, we seem to be heading to Tevinter anyway.

[WildOrchid]

Although, why not ask why Scout Harding is so popular? Or Abelas or Barriss? All of them have vocal fans, so Krem is hardly the only minor NPC with a following.

 

I always scratch my head and wonder why people keep asking that about Krem. Seriously.

[BabyPuncher]

I was neutral towards Krem and didn't care about him one way or the other.

 

Then again, I'm cool with transgendered people, and don't get my panties in a wad over "inclusiveness."  

 

Not yet. And that's just because the people advocating 'inclusiveness'  or 'equality' are deeply in delusion about what the terms actually demand.

[Fredward]

Not yet. And that's just because the people advocating 'inclusiveness'  or 'equality' are deeply in delusion about what the terms actually demand.

 

School us BabyPuncher-sama.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

Krem was interesting in that they showcased a f-to-m transgendered character. In my experience, I see a lot more m-to-f transgendered characters in video games.

 

Tbh though I didn't care for Krem and the Chargers until Iron Bull betrayed me.

[BabyPuncher]

Why, of course.

 

It's like the people who feel bad about the way fat people are treated, so they feature a fat woman in their commercial or whatever. And so they put a woman in the commercial who is maybe 20 pounds overweight. Carefully chosen to have just a bit of a belly, but still very much an hourglass shape. Who has flawless skin and makeup, and whose hair looks she just stepped out of a very expensive salon. And then they gratuitously pat themselves on the back and smugly congratulate themselves on just how inclusive they are. 

 

And what about the 600 pound woman? The one who can't stand up, whose thighs and knees have turned purple and black from tissue necrosis, who has been growing a mustache because her endocrine system has been thoroughly shot to hell? Is she 'included'? Is she presented as 'equal'?

 

Will she ever be featured in a commercial as anything but a revolting freak show? As a living warning of what NOT to do? As what NOT to become?

 

Will she ever be featured in a BioWare game?

 

Until the answer is 'yes,' people who claim to advocate 'equality' are delusional. And in fact, even saying 'yes' isn't good enough. You can't grit your teeth and do it because you feel it's the right thing to do, resisting the whole time. You have to want it.

 

Always the same thing. "WE SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT!!! ...but not too different." 

[Donk]

Lol wot. ^

[Fredward]

Will she ever be featured in a BioWare game?

 

Probably not, model costs yah know.

 

But for serious I do get what you're saying. There is the vibe of inclusion being commodified, of it being packaged along with the mainstream but in a way that is carefully calculated to not be too shocking or too out there since it won't take or might turn off the mainstream base. The reasons behind this are myriad and not all of them are bad, gradual, incremental change is easier to swallow than massive change for instance.

 

But, at the same time, is 'selective' inclusiveness (oxymoron I know but yknowimsayin) not STILL preferable to no inclusion at all? Regardless of the motives behind these decisions there is still a noticeable, discernible change on the ground level. The consumer level. And that's good, assuming you want it. The ultimate decision might have been made to market 'acceptable' differences but it's still something, still odd, still different. And if the mainstream can be acclimatized to that maybe eventually it can expand gradually.

 

That won't happen if we say scrap inclusiveness completely because it ISN'T ENOUGH. And I'd rather work with the neatly pre-packaged, market expanding, bottom-line feeding kind of inclusive if it gets us somewhere than not have it at all.

[Tragedienne of Heavens]

Why, of course.

 

It's like the people who feel bad about the way fat people are treated, so they feature a fat woman in their commercial or whatever. And so they put a woman in the commercial who is maybe 20 pounds overweight. Carefully chosen to have just a bit of a belly, but still very much an hourglass shape. Who has flawless skin and makeup, and whose hair looks she just stepped out of a very expensive salon. And then they gratuitously pat themselves on the back and smugly congratulate themselves on just how inclusive they are. 

 

And what about the 600 pound woman? The one who can't stand up, whose thighs and knees have turned purple and black from tissue necrosis, who has been growing a mustache because her endocrine system has been thoroughly shot to hell? Is she 'included'? Is she presented as 'equal'?

 

Will she ever be featured in a commercial as anything but a revolting freak show? As a living warning of what NOT to do? As what NOT to become?

 

Will she ever be featured in a BioWare game?

 

Until the answer is 'yes,' people who claim to advocate 'equality' are delusional. And in fact, even saying 'yes' isn't good enough. You can't grit your teeth and do it because you feel it's the right thing to do, resisting the whole time. You have to want it.

 

Always the same thing. "WE SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT!!! ...but not too different." 

 

[Jandi]

 

[BabyPuncher]

And if the mainstream can be acclimatized to that maybe eventually it can expand gradually.

 

That won't happen if we say scrap inclusiveness completely because it ISN'T ENOUGH. And I'd rather work with the neatly pre-packaged, market expanding, bottom-line feeding kind of inclusive if it gets us somewhere than not have it at all.

 

And where is this supposed to 'get us,' exactly? What is this supposed to be expanding into?

 

A future where the 600 pound, horribly sick woman actually IS beautiful? Is that the future you want?

[Jandi]

That won't happen if we say scrap inclusiveness completely because it ISN'T ENOUGH. And I'd rather work with the neatly pre-packaged, market expanding, bottom-line feeding kind of inclusive if it gets us somewhere than not have it at all.

 

It doesn't get us anywhere. As long as we have characters whose ONLY characteristic IS their "abnormality" it's nothing but pandering and only works to annoy people.

 

How to do it right? Dorian and Serah. NO ONE is talking about their sexuality, absolutely NO ONE. Do you know why? Because that's how you include without making it a dog and pony show like Krem. Krems only defining  characteristic is his genitals.

[Fredward]

And where is this supposed to 'get us,' exactly? What is this supposed to be expanding into?

 

A future where the 600 pound, horribly sick woman actually IS beautiful? Is that the future you want?

 

Maybe one where she isn't devalued for being at least.

 

It doesn't get us anywhere. As long as we have characters whose ONLY characteristic IS their "abnormality" it's nothing but pandering and only works to annoy people.

 

How to do it right? Dorian and Serah. NO ONE is talking about their sexuality, absolutely NO ONE. Do you know why? Because that's how you include without making it a dog and pony show like Krem. Krems only defining  characteristic is his genitals.

 

LOTS of people talked about Dorian's sexuality initially and that's cuz his personal quest was a PSA, I love Dorian but it's true. But then everybody got over it, learned he had many more varied and important defining characteristics. They acclimatized to the idea. I think Krem is there to acclimatize people to an idea. He also gives us more of a few for how the lower classes work in Tevinter.

 

[Jandi]

 

LOTS of people talked about Dorian's sexuality initially and that's cuz his personal quest was a PSA, I love Dorian but it's true. But then everybody got over it, learned he had many more varied and important defining characteristics. They acclimatized to the idea. I think Krem is there to acclimatize people to an idea. He also gives us more of a few for how the lower classes work in Tevinter.

 

That's only due to his personal quest, which was poorly done.

 

The only time Krem shows any emotion is when you ask him "why do you pass as a man?". That makes it his only defining characteristic.

[BabyPuncher]

Maybe one where she isn't devalued for being at least.

 

That's how value fundamentally functions. You can't escape from it. If A is greater than B, than B has to be less than A. There's no way around it. Anytime there's a 'prettier, smarter, stronger, better' there has to be an 'uglier, stupider, weaker, worse.'

 

This is the human condition.

[daveliam]

Count me in as one of the people who doesn't quite get the hype about Krem.  I understand that it's a big deal to have an openly trans character who isn't played for laughs.  I'm absolutely 100% not taking that away from his inclusion.  So I definitely appreciate what he represents from that standpoint and how trans gamers would really like him for that reason.  But as a character......?  I don't know.  He's a little flat for me.  Yeah, he busts Bull's balls a bit.  But he's not really terribly memorable for me.  I'm definitely neutral on him as a character.  So that's where my dissonance comes in:  I understand liking him for what he represents to the gamer.  I don't really understand the people who talk about what a great character he is.

 

Also count me in as one of the people who really wants to see Maevaris show up in DA4 as a companion.  She's a reform-oriented female Magister who was modeled after Mae West and was married to a dwarf?  Hell yeah!  I like her already!

 

All that being said, it's absolutely ridiculous that people need to defend why they like a character.  And, lo and behold, it's often particular types of characters who keep having these 'questions' posed to their fans......

[Giantdeathrobot]

Always amazed how people demand that others justify liking Krem.

 

At the same time, nobody bats an eyelash when other minor or semi-minor characters, such as Ser Barris, Abelas, Harding, Zither, Your Trainer and Calpernia (off the top of my head) are liked.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Im kinda meh on Krem, not a bad character but i haven't spoken with a huge deal since i usually sacrifice the chargers to secure the Qunari alliance 

[Fredward]

That's how value fundamentally functions. You can't escape from it. If A is greater than B, than B has to be less than A. There's no way around it. Anytime there's a 'prettier, smarter, stronger, better' there has to be an 'uglier, stupider, weaker, worse.'

 

This is the human condition.

 

But does it have to be? Our opinions on some things have already changed, so it isn't impossible to see things as different and not automatically lesser. If you asked someone a few decades back if a male couple was equal to a male-female what reaction would you have gotten? A thing can be valued for what it  is, not judged and devalued for what it is  not. This is especially true when there is no objective 'better' in place. The obese example isn't the best one since it's objectively bad to be obese but you get the point here right? The problem isn't that we value things it's that we unnecessarily compare things, we put them in boxes easier categorization and judgement but that doesn't make it fair or accurate. If we value a certain figure it doesn't follow that everyone 'should be' that. If male-female is the norm it doesn't mean everything else is 'less than' normal. And if its human nature it should change.

[Ryzaki]

Always amazed how people demand that others justify liking Krem.

 

At the same time, nobody bats an eyelash when other minor or semi-minor characters, such as Ser Barris, Abelas, Harding, Zither, Your Trainer and Calpernia (off the top of my head) are liked.

 

I will never understand the Harding hype. She has some nice one liners but that's it?