Spoiler
There you go even all the options. XD
(Also I hate spirit cole too. I felt so horrible afterwards. I'm sorry Cole!)
LMAO! XD I wish human Cole would have set them up anyway because that's super cute and human Cole is just a baby damnit, he don't need no romance!
LMAO! XD I wish human Cole would have set them up anyway because that's super cute and human Cole is just a baby damnit, he don't need no romance!
Same here.... from now on i'll keep making Cole spirit because I like Krem with Maryden. Cole and Maryden is.... eh.
I somewhat understand your point now, but I still disagree with you. You continue to dismiss all of the other dialogue that he has. I've never counted his lines but I'd estimate that he probably has about 30-40 lines of dialogue. I'd also estimate that he has about 5-6 lines of dialogue about his gender identity. That's far from being a token. You seem to advocate for an extremist approach: either they don't talk about it at all or they are a fully developed character that play a large role (I.e. A companion or LI). There's nothing wrong with a character having a smaller role AND having part of that role be in relations to their gender identity. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach.
Real acceptance would be the acceptance that trans characters COULD have their gender identity be a major part of their character. And they COULD have it play no role at all. Or they COULD have it be just a passing remark or two. And all of that is okay. And none of it is tokenism.
And, don't think I've not noticed that you avoided my question about how your approach tells you more about him as 'a human being'. Your answer about it making him seem like less of a token doesn't actually answer the question. How does him just making one off hand comment tell you more about him 'as a human being' than what exists? The answer is: it doesn't.
Here's what I think: You didn't like the scene where Bull scolded your Inqusitor for continuing to ask about Krem's gender. And instead of just saying that you didn't like it, you created the whole narrative about how that's not REALLY the issue, it's about Krem's characterization and how he only talks about being trans and blah blah blah. If you had just said: "I didn't like Bull's dialogue", we could have avoided this whole thing. Instead, you tried to make it about something that it wasn't and you got caught.
First, I only said *I* don't like the implementation, and that *I* would prefer a full companion, I never claimed it should be one way or the other. I'm not the one writing paragraph after paragraph of hyberbolic nonsense to attack someones opinion.
The only one creating narratives here is you. I never said that's all he talks about. I said that's the only thing about HIMSELF personally that he talks about. The rest is about Chargers, Tevinter or his parents or how Bull found and recruited him. There is a big ****** difference which you fail to see in your zealous hunt for "The bigot".
You're so transparent it's almost sad.
Why do you insist I am? No, really, I never even claimed to care about his sexual identity, that's what somoene else claimed and you just agreed with it because <reasons>. Not a single one of my posts have had anything to do with his sexual identity, only it's implementation.
Honestly, I find your post rather ironic.
I can't decide if you're a troll or just have extremely selective memory. You call him a token character because his sexual identity is dared to be mentioned, you say his sexual identity is the only memorable thing about him despite me and others listing the things we know and find interesting from interactions with him. You complain about the one hamfisted reaction from Iron Bull and in the same breath complain that if you take that conversation away there would be nothing to Krem. Why aren't you complaining in the threads for Sampson, Calpernia, Abelas, Harding, etc..?
First, I only said *I* don't like the implementation, and that *I* would prefer a full companion, I never claimed it should be one way or the other. I'm not the one writing paragraph after paragraph of hyberbolic nonsense to attack someones opinion.
The only one creating narratives here is you. I never said that's all he talks about. I said that's the only thing about HIMSELF personally that he talks about. The rest is about Chargers, Tevinter or his parents or how Bull found and recruited him. There is a big ****** difference which you fail to see in your zealous hunt for "The bigot".
You're so transparent it's almost sad.
So your sexual identity is about yourself, but your career, friends, childhood, culture, etc...has nothing to do with you? Right...
Things that are not about himself according to you:
-His refusal to marry
-His bad relationship with his controlling mother
-His idealization of his father who taught him to sew and accepted him for who he was
-His politeness easy going nature, and respect for authority
-His fighting skills
-His sense of humor
-His joining the army under false pretenses and bribing a healer to keep his secret
-His escape from Tevinter
-His dedication to taking care of his mother even though they hate each other
What do we know about Harding as a person? What do we know about Abelas? Barris?
I'm just wondering why everybody loves Krem so much. It's not that I don't like Krem, I guess I just feel a little indifferent toward him. I mean he's kinda just there. I guess I'd probably feel different if he was a companion. But in all honesty the only reason I see to like him so much is the fact that he's voiced by Jennifer Hale. Anybody want to explain why you enjoy Krem's character so much?
I'm not insane over Krem like some are, but I do find him enjoyable. I like the dynamic he has with Iron Bull and the various lines he throws out there, "At least a bastard knows who his mother was. Puts me one up on you Qunari, right?"
I also happen to like the actual voice that Jennifer Hale did for Krem, so I find him enjoyable to listen to in conversation.
So your sexual identity is about yourself, but your career, friends, childhood, culture, etc...has nothing to do with you? Right...
Things that are not about himself according to you:
-His refusal to marry
-His bad relationship with his controlling mother
-His idealization of his father who taught him to sew and accepted him for who he was
-His politeness easy going nature, and respect for authority
-His fighting skills
-His sense of humor
-His joining the army under false pretenses and bribing a healer to keep his secret
-His escape from Tevinter
-His dedication to taking care of his mother even though they hate each other
What do we know about Harding as a person? What do we know about Abelas? Barris?
You get all the likes there ever were.
First, I only said *I* don't like the implementation, and that *I* would prefer a full companion, I never claimed it should be one way or the other. I'm not the one writing paragraph after paragraph of hyberbolic nonsense to attack someones opinion.
The only one creating narratives here is you. I never said that's all he talks about. I said that's the only thing about HIMSELF personally that he talks about. The rest is about Chargers, Tevinter or his parents or how Bull found and recruited him. There is a big ****** difference which you fail to see in your zealous hunt for "The bigot".
You're so transparent it's almost sad.
I dont really like him. But then again, i dont really like bull or any of the other chargers either so whatever
Yeah....
Well, Krem had an interesting and well-written backstory. I liked how Bio dealt with his being Transgender and the problems he had to go through because of it.
I just despised Ironbull. If I could have removed him and passed leadership to Krem, I would have.
Sometimes I think I would rather have had Krem in the party. I just never got super attached to Iron Bull.
So your sexual identity is about yourself, but your career, friends, childhood, culture, etc...has nothing to do with you? Right...
Things that are not about himself according to you:
-His refusal to marry
-His bad relationship with his controlling mother
-His idealization of his father who taught him to sew and accepted him for who he was
-His politeness easy going nature, and respect for authority
-His fighting skills
-His sense of humor
-His joining the army under false pretenses and bribing a healer to keep his secret
-His escape from Tevinter
-His dedication to taking care of his mother even though they hate each other
What do we know about Harding as a person? What do we know about Abelas? Barris?
Your friends say nothing about *you*. Your parents say nothing about *you*. Your culture says nothing about *you*. Those are things people use as an excuse. As for your career? I wonder how much of that desire to be in the military has to do with proving your manhood to yourself? We don't know, we can't ask Krem that because that would be insesitive. His reaction though would tell us more about him than any of the other stuff.
What does that tell me about him? That he's an inherently good and likeable person. Can you imagine the shitstorm if he was a selfish, angry ******* and an alcoholic? Now *that* would actually be more interesting, but I wonder how many of you would be up in arms about that?
As for other characters? Do *you* know? Please, tell me without looking anything up. What *do* we know about those other characters. Harding has some backstory and personality but the others you mentioned? I don't even know for sure who you mean.
snip
Make the picture a little bigger, I can't see.
Look dude. Here's the thing, I didn't call you a bigot because I don't think you are one. But I do think what's playing a role is your reluctance to just admit what you didn't like. You've gotten there eventually: the implementation. But at first you couched it as this whole thing about his characterization and being a token and a bunch of other nonsense. You have this whole story based on false statements (like the fact that the only thing he talks about himself personally is his gender -- you are STILL using false ideas despite having multiple people prove you, objectively, wrong) when it would just be easier to say, 'I didn't like getting scolded by Bull (for whatever reason) so I'm salty about that scene.' Instead you went on this whole rant about how 'acceptance' should happen by not 'mentioning' his gender identity and you got stuck in a rabbit hole and the further you dug, the worse it got.
I don't think you are a bigot. I think you didn't like a scene and tried to cover it up (for whatever reason) as something it wasn't and a bunch of people called you out. And I think you thought arguing with me wouldn't strengthen your argument. And it didn't.
And with that, adios. Because now I've spent way too much time talking about a mediocre side character.
Wait, what? Cover it up? I've been here for several pages explaining why I didn't like that scene.
I think you should say adios, cause you make 0 sense mate.
Wait, what? Cover it up? I've been here for several pages explaining why I didn't like that scene.
I think you should say adios, cause you make 0 sense mate.
Is English your second language? Legitimate question. I'm not asking that to be a jerk, but it would just really explain a lot of things.
As for other characters? Do *you* know? Please, tell me without looking anything up. What *do* we know about those other characters. Harding has some backstory and personality but the others you mentioned? I don't even know for sure who you mean.
That's my point, those are other minor characters that we know even less about than Krem and yet you choose this particular character to rant about. You never mention any aspect of his personality aside from his sexual identity which you want the game to never mention. No "it would be cool if we knew more about Krem's escape from Tevinter" or "I wonder if Krem can get his father out of slavery some day."
Your past, where you came from, the life you lived, the circumstances you were raised in, the people who raised you and the people you choose to keep company with you all inform who you are.
Well, since we are somewhat on this topic - I have a question about the Chantry
How does the Chantry view Transgender and gay peoples? I know the Chantry takes major inspiration from the Medieval Catholic Church, so I was curious
It is a serious question. No intent on starting a "flame war". I'm also curious how the TI views it considering Krem's encounter with those soldiers.
There's no stigma or anything for gay relationships when it comes to the Chantry, but levels of normality/acceptance by the population as a whole tends to differs depending on which region of Thedas you're in. Overall it doesn't seem to be particularly frowned upon.
I don't actually remember if anything has been stated about transgendered folks when it comes to the Chantry though. I'd be curious to know if anyone has any info.
So your sexual identity is about yourself, but your career, friends, childhood, culture, etc...has nothing to do with you? Right...
Things that are not about himself according to you:
-His refusal to marry
-His bad relationship with his controlling mother
-His idealization of his father who taught him to sew and accepted him for who he was
-His politeness easy going nature, and respect for authority
-His fighting skills
-His sense of humor
-His joining the army under false pretenses and bribing a healer to keep his secret
-His escape from Tevinter
-His dedication to taking care of his mother even though they hate each other
What do we know about Harding as a person? What do we know about Abelas? Barris?
This post = too much sense.
I'm deafened by the thunderous roar of tiny brains popping across the landscape of BSN........
That's my point, those are other minor characters that we know even less about than Krem and yet you choose this particular character to rant about. You never mention any aspect of his personality aside from his sexual identity which you want the game to never mention. No "it would be cool if we knew more about Krem's escape from Tevinter" or "I wonder if Krem can get his father out of slavery some day."
Your past, where you came from, the life you lived, the circumstances you were raised in, the people who raised you and the people you choose to keep company with you all inform who you are.
To rant about? What the actual ****? So replying to peoples posts directed at ME is ranting? Please explain *that* logic to me.
Also point to where I said I didn't want them to mention it? I said them slapping you in the face with it is what I found bad. How many times do I need to tell you that? Is that really so hard to comprehend?
What I have problem with: Implementation
What I don't have a problem with: Inclusion.
Do you need me to draw a diagram? Maybe some pie charts for you to grasp it?
Every one of those things you list are based on circumstance. But It's rather obvious you're one of "those" people, so you might find such things important, rather than what a person actually has to *say* and what they *think*. Note: Talking and saying are not the same thing.
Is English your second language? Legitimate question. I'm not asking that to be a jerk, but it would just really explain a lot of things.
No, it's my 3rd. Please share your enlightenment.
LMAO! XD I wish human Cole would have set them up anyway because that's super cute and human Cole is just a baby damnit, he don't need no romance!
Especially after that "lol you can't romance Cole he's like a child" we got pre release. WTF.
Especially after that "lol you can't romance Cole he's like a child" we got pre release. WTF.
Yeah... Sera is more like a child than Cole is lol.
Cole is more autistic than like a child.
No, it's my 3rd. Please share your enlightenment.
My "enlightenment" is that you don't seem to be relaying what you're trying to say in the way you think you're saying it. It might make sense to you in your head, or when you're typing it, but it's NOT coming out that way. People might be misconstruing what your point is because of that.
You also don't seem to be thinking about/absorbing/understanding what people are saying in return, even when they're simply attempting to simply get a handle on what your point is to begin with. It's just kind of not making a lot of sense.
It seems like a comprehension issue at this point on your end, which is most often the case when someone is attempting to relay information in a language that isn't their native one. Hence the question.
My "enlightenment" is that you don't seem to be relaying what you're trying to say in the way you think you're saying it. It might make sense to you in your head, or when you're typing it, but it's NOT coming out that way. People might be misconstruing what your point is because of that.
You also don't seem to be thinking about/absorbing/understanding what people are saying in return, even when they're simply attempting to simply get a handle on what your point is to begin with. It's just kind of not making a lot of sense.
It seems like a comprehension issue at this point on your end, which is most often the case when someone is attempting to relay information in a language that isn't their native one. Hence the question.
I really don't see how that's possible when I'm as short and to the point as I can be without trying to insinuate anything. I say what I mean, full stop. It's these other people who keep making up their own narratives, then attacking me with them. It's plain to anyone who actually reads the exchange and not just parts of it. I also ignore a lot because I have no desire to respond to it.
I mean, jeebus, it's so obvious that they are trying to "trap" me into saying something that they can then "expose" me with because some have decided that I have a problem with transgenders. If you can't see that then *shrug*
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