550 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Luminous]

I like to plan out my character before release, an part of that was deciding who'll they'll romance. I mean, it's not necessary at all, but it was a helpful tool for me when I was creating my DA:I characters.

[Selene Moonsong]

Personally, I would much prefer NOT to know ahead of time. IMHO, it would be a spoiler and would take away from discovering something on my own; I much prefer discovery over meta game knowledge in games where romantic options are available.

[Vegeta 77]

I like to plan my guy so knowing what my options are helps and also not having me waste my time.

[Rannik]

There is also no story in the games and that is why i don't play them or care if they have no orientation.

 

If you think that let's say Fallout 4 or Skyrim have no story then you were not paying literally any attention to the world around the player character.

 

Either that or you're the kind of player that needs "the story" thrown at them through on-rails sequences of quests and explicit UI elements... to which I can only say that I pity you, you're missing so much, and not only from Bethesda games.

[Shechinah]

If you think that let's say Fallout 4 or Skyrim have no story then you were not paying literally any attention to the world around the player character.

 

To me, this is especially egregious when it comes to Fallout 4.  
 

[Arcian]

My irony detector's broken. Can someone tell me if this was serious?

A guy rocking Todd Howard as his avatar is never honest.

[Arcian]

To me, this is especially egregious when it comes to Fallout 4.  
 

"Who's Shaun?"

[Shechinah]

"Who's Shaun?"

 

Out of curiousity, did you go through the main questline?

 

The reason I ask is because I believe that almost all of the quests that takes place during the first and second act are tied to the goal of finding Shaun whether it be through clues or people that might aid the search and the player character can frequently mention him especially by name if they choose to. That's not even going into how Shaun is responsible for the player character even being able to make their way into the Commonwealth Wasteland.

 

I also believe that the player character can cite Shaun as their reason for joining the different factions and mention him in some non-main quests and conversations such as one with Connie Abernathy.
 

[Malleficae]

I'm the spoiler unicorn - I like spoilers and they don't bother me. For example, I knew Dorian wasn't romacable for f!quisitor and I still was angry when he said "you can't touch this". Same with Morrigan, Cassandra, Tali, Jack, Miranda and maybe something more. If you don't want to see it, just don't search for it. There are people who are planing games (such as me) who like to have as much information as they can. Giving others opportunity to play better doesn't mean they steal it from you.

[Deebo305]

Didn't care in DA:I still don't now

[Chardonney]

I like to plan out my character before release, an part of that was deciding who'll they'll romance. I mean, it's not necessary at all, but it was a helpful tool for me when I was creating my DA:I characters.

 

Yes, exactly. This is why I would also like to know beforehand. A part of creating the protagonist is knowing who they will romance and what the LI looks like.

[Really Sad Panther]

I think it would be more interesting not to know.

[Ianamus]

I don't really mind either way. If I know a game has romance content I like to know in advance if there are same gender options because it means more options and gets me more interested, but I don't need to know what characters are available or what orientation they are. 

 

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they don't reveal who any of the romance options are prior to launch or even how many there are, as long as they clarify if there are any or not. 

[GoldenGail3]

Sorry, I should've explained my position more clearly. Basically, if you don't define a romanceable character's orientation, or it's an orientation that is extremely flexible, there's two major paths to writing romances:

1. Write a single romance that is compatible for all types (but these tend to be a bit more vague) - relatively shallow, but easy to do
2. Write additional version(s) of a romance for a single character to match different orientations - deeper, but more difficult to accomplish

The first approach is akin the one we see in Bethesda games. Very simple, very vague. Bethesda keeps things vague, so everything can be left to headcanon. I like this approach to romances, but only if the characters are simple and applying headcanon to everything is acceptable (and that's pretty much how Beth games work, so it's cool). But I don't like this for Bioware games. Things are intentionally not vague, so leaving aspects of a character's personality and orientation to headcanon sticks out as a peculiarity.

The second approach takes additional writing and dialogue work. It's possible, and if it's done, would result in more personalized banter, conversations and the like, but the writers and VAs are usually strapped for time as it is. If they have to write more content, it would end up being a lot of work that may draw from other content, otherwise romance paths would feel pretty same-y (don't tell me otherwise--this is exactly why the Liara, Leliana, Zevran, etc. romances never really interested me). Putting a lot of effort into writing variations of the same romance could take a great deal of resources away from writing the core game.

That aside, orientation and sexuality do factor in to a character's personality in Bioware games, just like their morality, experiences, character class, and pretty much everything else factor in to some extent. I think those are things that help to set different dynamics for different playthroughs. If I play DA:O as a male Warden vs a female Warden, my interactions with Alistair and Morrigan are going to be radically different; likewise would my interactions with various characters be somewhat different if I play a Mage Warden vs a Dwarven Noble Warden. Maybe the effects of those interactions aren't enormously different, but I felt as though they enhanced the RP value because they're fundamentally different and go in different paths. Conversely, I found the ME2 romances pretty dull, since I could romance a character regardless of what I said or did, as long as I matched their orientation.

I'm in favor of sexual preferences in romances, just as I'm in favor of approval or player action-based preferences, possibly even class-based preferences, within the sphere of Bioware titles. The more restrictions in interactions, the more impetus I have to try new characters and go in different directions with those characters. Although, if Bioware adopts the Bethesda method, I won't really mind, I just think the way they're doing it now is a better fit for the type of game they produce.

Yes to mostly all of this. Besides for the Bethesda romance thing, I mean Skyrim had crappy marriages......

[KaiserShep]

I'm the spoiler unicorn - I like spoilers and they don't bother me. For example, I knew Dorian wasn't romacable for f!quisitor and I still was angry when he said "you can't touch this". Same with Morrigan, Cassandra, Tali, Jack, Miranda and maybe something more. If you don't want to see it, just don't search for it. There are people who are planing games (such as me) who like to have as much information as they can. Giving others opportunity to play better doesn't mean they steal it from you.

 

For the most part, I don't really care so long as it's not some big revelation about a character, like with Solas. I would have been annoyed if someone told me all about him before I completed the game. But stuff like the character's sexuality? Whatever. It's just something I can use to plot the character I want to create. It doesn't really give me anything big about that character's role. It only really goes toward the small bonus content anyway. 

[It's Vexion]

It does matter actually, straight people need to know how much they are getting screwed over despite the fact that they are majority in who buys the game and keeps bioware running.

Do you think someone else's artistic vision should be up for a popular vote? Since when has tyranny of the majority been a good thing? I think you need to wake up and realize just how privileged, accepted, and easy a "straight" person's life is compared to that of a transsexual, bisexual, or homosexual. What's the matter with having more alternative sexual preferences than the "standard" heterosexual? Are you that insecure about your own preferences, or are you just incapable of seeing a problem unless it inconveniences you specifically? 

[PlatonicWaffles]

I mean, if they want to, but honestly, I feel them doing it with DA:I was less of a "here's who you can romance" and more of a "hey look guys we have non-heterosexual characters in our game!"

 

And that's fine - I have no issue with non-heterosexual people and characters (representation is always great!), I'm bi myself, but part of me feels like it was done as a way of grabbing attention.

[Lady Luminous]

Do you think someone else's artistic vision should be up for a popular vote? Since when has tyranny of the majority been a good thing? I think you need to wake up and realize just how privileged, accepted, and easy a "straight" person's life is compared to that of a transsexual, bisexual, or homosexual. What's the matter with having more alternative sexual preferences than the "standard" heterosexual? Are you that insecure about your own preferences, or are you just incapable of seeing a problem unless it inconveniences you specifically?

I'd just like to applaud you, this was really well stated.

[Ahglock]

Do you think someone else's artistic vision should be up for a popular vote? Since when has tyranny of the majority been a good thing? I think you need to wake up and realize just how privileged, accepted, and easy a "straight" person's life is compared to that of a transsexual, bisexual, or homosexual. What's the matter with having more alternative sexual preferences than the "standard" heterosexual? Are you that insecure about your own preferences, or are you just incapable of seeing a problem unless it inconveniences you specifically?

Lol artistic vision.

[Applepie_Svk]

Do you think someone else's artistic vision should be up for a popular vote? Since when has tyranny of the majority been a good thing? I think you need to wake up and realize just how privileged, accepted, and easy a "straight" person's life is compared to that of a transsexual, bisexual, or homosexual. What's the matter with having more alternative sexual preferences than the "standard" heterosexual? Are you that insecure about your own preferences, or are you just incapable of seeing a problem unless it inconveniences you specifically? 

 

Artistic vision seems to be popular weapon since the release of ME3, to simply tell a customer that he or she has no right to criticize or even ask for anything that he or she paid for. Other thing is that to do this game for transgender, you would require like another two more of voice actors or atleasts some of more text special for transgender character, that would cost additional money and not to mentioned some of the additional writing of making a drama for being transgender within the worlds of Mass Effect or Dragon Age. The key audience here is either heterosexual or homosexual (I don´t see even problem with being bisexual), which is already covered by making possibility of having a relationship with some, well most of the crewmates of both sexes and sexualities, and I realy doubt that BioWare would went so far with transgender just to satisfy few people.

 

There is no tyrany of majority, it´s simple market, deal with it...

[SNascimento]

The less they talk about romance the better. 

[dragonflight288]

Yes, exactly. This is why I would also like to know beforehand. A part of creating the protagonist is knowing who they will romance and what the LI looks like.

For some people, yes. For others it may simply be a case of deciding on a personality and seeing what works going in blind. 

 

Some people like to be blind and find it fits their characters better to go in not knowing to have better reactions.

[It's Vexion]

Artistic vision seems to be popular weapon since the release of ME3, to simply tell a customer that he or she has no right to criticize or even ask for anything that he or she paid for. Other thing is that to do this game for transgender, you would require like another two more of voice actors or atleasts some of more text special for transgender character, that would cost additional money and not to mentioned some of the additional writing of making a drama for being transgender within the worlds of Mass Effect or Dragon Age. The key audience here is either heterosexual or homosexual (I don´t see even problem with being bisexual), which is already covered by making possibility of having a relationship with some, well most of the crewmates of both sexes and sexualities, and I realy doubt that BioWare would went so far with transgender just to satisfy few people.

 

There is no tyrany of majority, it´s simple market, deal with it...

 

I want to preface this by saying that fans are only owed what the company promises them, nothing more. As far as I can tell, Bioware has never promised to exclusively cater to the majority.

 

I am not using the term as a weapon, nor am I saying one cannot criticize a piece of art. I think you are completely missing the point. From an artistic point of view, it is healthy to criticize. The moment your criticisms are public, however, is when I get to critique someone else's argument. This individual is saying that because the majority of customers are heterosexual, it would be offensive or incorrect to have more characters of other sexual preferences other than that. From an artistic point of view, that argument means absolutely nothing. If an artist wants to put something other than heterosexual, they should do it. They are open to criticism, but it is much more of a slippery slope -- it is a matter of opinion and not of technical fact.

 

Your idea that homosexuals are now among the majority amuses me. A decade ago it was assumed homosexual consumers were within with the obscure minority, but it was Bioware, Maxis, and several other developers who experimented with expressed sexuality and pressed against that assumption. Nobody told them not to do it, they did it, and it turned out there was a market that was previously untapped. It is silly to me not to attempt to include other groups in advertising, regardless of their size, because it will mean it will pull in fans that would have otherwise felt excluded. But having little accurate data to properly understand the demographics of the gaming market, I would not go so far as to commit either which way. I agree that creating a marketing strategy to target the majority is the most effect at generating revenue, but that is not my point. One can easily market a game in such a way that sells, while retaining said diversity. What annoys me, however, is that the many who are perfectly content with the status quo have little understanding of the evolving market, let alone the irony of their own arguments. They are the first to complain when their place on the totem pole is challenged, or whenever anybody but them is catered to at some arbitrary level of "too much." I would say said individuals need to take their own advice and just "deal with it."

[Lady Luminous]

For some people, yes. For others it may simply be a case of deciding on a personality and seeing what works going in blind. 
 
Some people like to be blind and find it fits their characters better to go in not knowing to have better reactions.

Can't they just try to avoid spoilers then? For the most part I find these things to be pretty well marked as spoiler-filled.

[Applepie_Svk]

I want to preface this by saying that fans are only owed what the company promises them, nothing more. As far as I can tell, Bioware has never promised to exclusively cater to the majority.

 

I am not using the term as a weapon, nor am I saying one cannot criticize a piece of art. I think you are completely missing the point. From an artistic point of view, it is healthy to criticize. The moment your criticisms are public, however, is when I get to critique someone else's argument. This individual is saying that because the majority of customers are heterosexual, it would be offensive or incorrect to have more characters of other sexual preferences other than that. From an artistic point of view, that argument means absolutely nothing. If an artist wants to put something other than heterosexual, they should do it. They are open to criticism, but it is much more of a slippery slope -- it is a matter of opinion and not of technical fact.

 

 

 

To begin with, games are not an art, they are simply games - made for entertaiment, for consumer purpose, created as a compromise betwen the developers, artists, writers, musicians and whoever else in way to get a profit, if they are anything than they are interactive medium. If they were art, than every game is art, thus games that has nothing to do with art are art. You can admire certain aspect of game which is well handled, as a music, graphic style or writing as a good art, howevery without scripting it into the code it would be still just a piece of book, picture or soundtrack. The main purpose of games is to be an interactive and most of the games are more focused on being interactive rather than being artistic. You simply can´t say that Fifa or Call of Duty is an art, just because none is buying those games for being one.

 

 But what is and what isn´t art is entirely subjective and if games were art, then they are so mainstream that it devaluate their whole artistic integrity. As a Duchamp ironicaly said by the picture of toilet, if this can be art, then everything else is art, that picture made a good point how subjective art not just can be, but how absurd definition of art can be.

 

Entirely different thing is to say that making a good game is an art.

 

 

 

 

Your idea that homosexuals are now among the majority amuses me. A decade ago it was assumed homosexual consumers were within with the obscure minority, but it was Bioware, Maxis, and several other developers who experimented with expressed sexuality and pressed against that assumption. Nobody told them not to do it, they did it, and it turned out there was a market that was previously untapped. It is silly to me not to attempt to include other groups in advertising, regardless of their size, because it will mean it will pull in fans that would have otherwise felt excluded. But having little accurate data to properly understand the demographics of the gaming market, I would not go so far as to commit either which way. I agree that creating a marketing strategy to target the majority is the most effect at generating revenue, but that is not my point. One can easily market a game in such a way that sells, while retaining said diversity. What annoys me, however, is that the many who are perfectly content with the status quo have little understanding of the evolving market, let alone the irony of their own arguments. They are the first to complain when their place on the totem pole is challenged, or whenever anybody but them is catered to at some arbitrary level of "too much." I would say said individuals need to take their own advice and just "deal with it."

 

Good, I am glad that you are amused, but the fact is that today´s homosexual fans of BioWare games should be now treated equally as the heterosexual, which they are. So far that I can tell, trans people´s desire is to be the other sex or gender or both, which is already included in the games by the character creator, it´s not their desire to be something in betwen, that´s why so many of them has a problems with their psyché aswell with the real life functioning, thus here with the avatar creator they have a luxury of being somewhere else instead of undesirable reality. 

But back to the point, there were those ancient times, when games were just an entertaiment, when none cared if there is gender or sex and everyone was just playing the game, nowadays however the word as a game means to be an indoctrination device for telling to people how to think and behave instead of being entertaiment.