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Should BioWare not reveal characters sexual orientation before release?


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#476
Hanako Ikezawa

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isn't that what we attribute as a society, hence social construct. You're talking about humans. Many species don't have a gender and can reproduce with each other or by themselves, some could change their sex if the need arised.

Those creatures are androgynous/hermaphrodites, either being able to change their sex or are a combination of both male and female sexes. 



#477
Battlebloodmage

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To my undersanding, female sexuality is tied more to such things as sexual identiy and behavior as well as the various aspects connected to the two rather than the question of female biology itself.

sexual identity is gender. As a biologist, I studied different species like a fish that can change sex if there is not enough of the other sex around. Some hermaphrodite species have both parts and can donate or receive materials for reproduction. The purest sense of sex is something inborn while gender is more social construct of that we define as female or male like the ability to carry a child.

#478
It's Vexion

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isn't that what we attribute as a society, hence social construct. You're talking about humans. Many species don't have a gender and can reproduce with each other or by themselves, some could change their sex if the need arised.

 

No, the roles we assign beyond the biological are social constructs. I am talking about all life that reproduces sexually, which is not determined by society. Those clear distinctions are genetic. It is clear to me that asari do not reproduce asexually because they require a partner to have their ovum (or whatever you'd like to call it) fertilized. It is a different experience from what we traditionally call "sex," but it ultimately serves the exact same purpose.



#479
Battlebloodmage

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Those creatures are androgynous, either being able to change their sex or are a combination of both male and female sexes.

and asari can reproduce with themselves to fulfill both roles. If asari has a male appearance or no female attributed features then they wouldn't be consider female by a lot of people. As I said, gender and sex are two different things.

#480
Evamitchelle

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...2 straight male LIs in ME1? Where???  :blink: There was only Kaidan.

 

I miscounted, I wasn't counting Liara as a 'straight women' option. 



#481
It's Vexion

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and asari can reproduce with themselves to fulfill both roles. If asari has a male appearance or no female attributed features then they wouldn't be consider female by a lot of people. As I said, gender and sex are two different things.

 

To quote the Mass Effect codex itself:

 

 

However asari gender is defined, they are innately different from humans, for asari can mate and successfully reproduce with any other gender or species. Although they have one gender, they are not asexual and do in fact require a partner to reproduce.

 

Though here, gender is a misnomer. What they mean is "sex" and not "gender," but that is a common mistake. They are female because they can carry a developing child, whether or not you call them a "woman" is determined by society.



#482
Hanako Ikezawa

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and asari can reproduce with themselves to fulfill both roles. If asari has a male appearance or no female attributed features then they wouldn't be consider female by a lot of people. As I said, gender and sex are two different things.

There is a family of lizard on Earth, the Cnemidophorus and Aspidoscelis geneses  to be specific, where every member's sex is purely female, and they reproduce the same general way as Asari do via parthenogenesis.

 

You are correct about sex and gender being two different things. Here is the difference:

 

Sex = male and female
 
Gender = masculine and feminine
 
So in essence:
 
Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.
 
Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.
 
So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally. These 'gender roles' have an impact on the health of the individual.
 
In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics.
 
By this criteria, the sex of all Asari are female. Their gender is female as well. 


#483
Battlebloodmage

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No, the roles we assign beyond the biological are social constructs. I am talking about all life that reproduces sexually, which is not determined by society. Those clear distinctions are genetic. It is clear to me that asari do not reproduce asexually because they require a partner to have their ovum (or whatever you'd like to call it) fertilized. It is a different experience from what we traditionally call "sex," but it ultimately serves the exact same purpose.

some species can reproduce sexually with each other because they have both parts.

#484
It's Vexion

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some species can reproduce sexually with each other because they have both parts.

If you mean they can reproduce with a member of the same species, that is still sexual. If it reproduces on its own with both organs, we have a term for that. It's called asexual reproduction. I assume you are alluding to snails, where several species are hermaphrodites or most of the other species occasionally change their sex entirely. Either way, they still reproduce sexually. Since one partner carries the fertilized ova, they are technically female.



#485
Battlebloodmage

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There is a species of lizard on Earth where every member's sex is female, and they reproduce the same general way as Asari do via parthenogenesis.

Sex = male and female

Gender = masculine and feminine

So in essence:

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally. These 'gender roles' have an impact on the health of the individual.

In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics.

By this criteria, the sex of all Asari are female.

what makes this lizard species females? As I already said chromosomes serve as a map for progressing to male or female but that doesn't mean male or female as there are males with xx Biologically or female appearances. You can't say a species is purely male or female if there is nothing to contrast it to. Asari is monosex with female gender.

#486
Battlebloodmage

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If you mean they can reproduce with a member of the same species, that is still sexual. If it reproduces on its own with both organs, we have a term for that. It's called a asexual reproduction. I assume you are alluding to snails, where several species are hermaphrodites or most of the other species occasionally change their sex entirely. Either way, they still reproduce sexually. Since one partner carries the fertilized ova, they are technically female.

yes, that's then become gender because we attribute the female role as reproducing offspring despite all member of the species biologically the same as one another. It's like you're a girl in the gay relationship of you're a bottom.

#487
Hanako Ikezawa

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what makes this lizard species females. As I already said chromosomes serve as a map for progressing to male or female but that doesn't mean male or female as there are males with xx Biologically or female appearances. You can't say a species is purely male or female if there is nothing to contrast it to. Asari is monosex with female gender.

Their DNA does. Their DNA has their sex as being 100% female. 

 

If the chromosome is XX, the individual is not of the male sex. They may identify as male, thus their gender is male, but their sex isn't. That's what transsexual and transgender people are, people whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

 

No, the asari are monogendered and an all-female(as in every member's sex is female) race. Bioware states this. 



#488
Shechinah

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For reference, I believe Hanako is referring to the desert grassland whiptail lizard (aspidoscelis uniparens)
 


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#489
It's Vexion

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yes, that's then become gender because we attribute the female role as reproducing offspring despite all member of the species biologically the same as one another. It's like you're a girl in the gay relationship of you're a bottom.

Incorrect again. A female member of our species can be "masculine" just as a male member of our species can be "feminine." These are malleable terms because they are social constructs in their entirety. The sex of our species can only be changed via extensive surgery and even then, from my understanding (and any transsexual can correct me if I am wrong), we are still not good enough to finalize the transition because they lack the ability to successfully reproduce. The terms "woman" and "man" are gender constructs. "Male" and "female" are biological definitions of sexual reproductive capability. All asari are female because they reproduce sexually and are the partner who carry the natal offspring.



#490
Battlebloodmage

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Their DNA does. Their DNA has their sex as being 100% female.

If the chromosome is XX, the individual is not of the male sex. They may identify as male, thus their gender is male, but their sex isn't. That's what transsexual and transgender people are, people whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

Wrong. All chromosome does is served as a map for whether the body develop the mullerian or wolffian duct. An xx male has TDF and their body is biologically male as well as appearance.

#491
Battlebloodmage

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Incorrect again. A female member of our species can be "masculine" just as a male member of our species can be "feminine." These are malleable terms because they are social constructs in their entirety. The sex of our species can only be changed via extensive surgery and even then, from my understanding (and any transsexual can correct me if I am wrong), we are still not good enough to finalize the transition because they lack the ability to successfully reproduce. The terms "woman" and "man" are gender constructs. "Male" and "female" are biological definitions of sexual reproductive capability. All asari are female because they reproduce sexually and are the partner who carry the natal offspring.

so all hemophrodites are females? Sex is only a thing if there are both males and females.

#492
It's Vexion

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so all hemophrodites are females?

No, they are hermaphrodites because they carry both organs. Asari do not, so they are female.



#493
Battlebloodmage

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No, they are hermaphrodites.

hence asari

#494
It's Vexion

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hence asari

No, because they do not reproduce via traditional definitions of "sex." Let me explain this to you again.

 

The asari are capable of reproducing with any species, regardless of the partners' sex. However, their sexual organs only permit them to carry the child (because of the pseudo-science explanation of 'melding'). As such, they are female but can be defined as "man," "woman," or neither.



#495
Battlebloodmage

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No, because they do not reproduce via traditional definitions of "sex."

basically they either don't have a sex, but can reproduce with each other. The ability to carry is not what make something a female.

#496
Hanako Ikezawa

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Wrong. All chromosome does is served as a map for whether the body develop the mullerian or wolffian duct. An xx male has TDF and their body is biologically male as well as appearance.

That's because that second X chromosome isn't a regular X chromosome, but an X chromosome with the SRY gene. If both X chromosomes were regular X chromosomes, then the sex will always be female. 



#497
It's Vexion

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basically they either don't have a sex, but can reproduce with each other

That is the difficulty of defining the species. "Melding" serves as sexual reproduction, but without any explicit organ to do so. It's like if the brain was able to rearrange the chromosomes in the womb purely out of psychic stimulation. As I said, it is pseudoscience. But for the purposes of demonstrating their sex, they are certainly not hermaphrodite (because they do not have both male and female sexual organs) and they are not asexual (because they do not self-replicate). For the sake of earthly understanding (because we have only experienced the sexual dichotomy), they are female.



#498
Battlebloodmage

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That's because that second X chromosome isn't a regular X chromosome, but an X chromosome with the SRY gene.

yes, that's too show, that chromosome is, basically just road map to direct the body development seeing as body can develop female or male depend on the level or estrogen or androgen. It's only especially essentially during fetus state.

#499
Hanako Ikezawa

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Bioware states via Word of God that Asari are a monogendered and an all-female(as in the sex of every member is female) race. I'm going with what Bioware says since they made the Asari. The sex and gender of the Asari are female.


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#500
Battlebloodmage

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That is the difficulty of defining the species. "Melding" serves as sexual reproduction, but without any explicit organ to do so. It's like if the brain was able to rearrange the chromosomes in the womb purely out of psychic stimulation. As I said, it is pseudoscience. But for the purposes of demonstrating their sex, they are certainly not hermaphrodite (because they do not have both male and female sexual organs) and they are not asexual (because they do not self-replicate).

that's why I don't think saying asari is female or male sex is correct. They are gender female. I would just say they are monosex or don't have any sex beyond that.
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