550 réponses à ce sujet

[Joseph Warrick]

One man and one woman, both playersexual.

 

Fixed characters are the old way to write characters. The way of books and movies before player input existed. Like fixed plots and fixed dialogue. Tweaking characters to enhance player interactivity is new and unique to games. Games should seize the opportunity, not reject it out of complaints of gameyness. Hello, you're a game. Make the most of it.

 

Answers to common objections:

 

- They wouldn't necessarily have the exact same lines for both sexes. There could be tweaks to the dialogue so a character has a gay background or not depending on the player.

 

- This doesn't cheapen or make shallow the character. Just the opposite - It enriches the character with extra layers and it adds replayability on top of that. Furthermore, the romance for that character can be deeper because there are fewer romances to write. Two slightly different versions of one character are more efficient than two totally distinct characters because there is a common shared base. Unfortunately many players can't see past their book mentality in order to tolerate mutable personalities. That's their issue, not the character's.

 

- "But that way we can't get awesome meaningful scenes like the one where Cassandra rejects your advances." We had one like that in DA2, when Aveline rejected you. You can have rejection scenes if you like. Give it to a character who is not romanceable.

 

--

 

Mutable characters should be a thing beyond sexual orientation. In DA2, Bethany and Carver should have been one character, not two. The sibling would be a mage or a warrior depending on what you aren't.

[9TailsFox]

You can romance Lana Beniko and Theron Shan as well - they're major characters in the SoR storyline and can be romanced by the player regardless of the player's gender. They'll both be back in the new expansion - well, Lana definitely is, and I certainly expect that Theron will pop up eventually at some point in the new KotFE story.

Yes. I know and i am sure we get more development for both of them. But i don't really care for both of them they are boring. And if my Imperial agent wasn't batman working in the shadows to protect empire, my point that Lana is idiot she can see spy in her ranks. And friendly with republic spy.

 

Vote Darth Marr for emperor, he will make empire great again.

[Laughing_Man]

How is having a LI of those orientations taking away from anyone? There would still be a romance arc, and it would be available to all players. The only orientations that take options away are heterosexual and homosexual, since they are only available to one gender. 

 

If we go according to 2/2/2 checklist, and then make one per orientation an asexual character, then you essentially take away one LI per type.

 

Why?

 

Yes, everyone can still play them, just like everyone can still play homosexual romances despite being heterosexual IRL,

but not everyone wants to.

 

Just like IRL, sex is an important part of most romantic relationships, and for many people (I could probably say most people) finding out that your romantic interest is not interested in sex would be a big deal - potentially relationship-ending big, not out of spite but due to... incompatibility and a potential source of frustration. (the two sides are speaking in a different language if you will)

 

So, going with that line of thought into role playing, most protagonists will react the same, and this is why for most people you would be taking something away.

 

 

I'm curious, since homosexual and heterosexual LI's are "the only orientations that take options away", do you support the "playersexual" idea?

[Regan_Cousland]

I've resolved to avoid most press about Mass Effect so that, when I play the game, it's like a real voyage of discovery. I won't even know which characters I meet are companions, let alone what their sexual preferences are. 

Of course -- I will be checking out snippets of reviews. I'm not buying your game blindly, BioWare! That's gotten me burned in recent years (and I wasn't even wearing my Superior Belt of Fire Resistance). If I read the phrases "weak story" or "too much grinding", so help me! lol
 

P.S. I really don't mind if all LIs are bisexual, like they were in DA2. But if all LIs are "bisexual", they shouldn't advertise their bisexuality. 

 

That way, a male who romances a female companion is free to assume that, in his own personal canon, his love interest is straight; and a female who romances a male companion can similarly assume that her love interest is straight.

Likewise, a female who romances a female companion can assume that her love interest is gay; and a male who romances a male can assume that his love interest is gay.

Perhaps make one or two of the LIs openly bisexual ... make it part of who they are ... but make most "straight" or "gay" depending on the sex of the player and whether he or she shows romantic interest. "Player-sexual" I believe is the term that I read in an above post.

For example, Kaiden Alkeno is straight in my Mass Effect canon. Fenris is straight in my DA canon. If they're gay or bisexual in yours, that's great. The important thing is that the game allowed me to perceive them as any of those things.

[Panda]

In real life I meet a person and learn about them, and those things, along with their physical attributes, is what originally peaks my interest. This is not what BioWare does though, it isn't some dating site where this character lists his interests. BioWare shares information about the character and you decide you will romance him because of that... as far as real life examples go it's much more similar to a pimp giving out information for about his prostitutes. 

Excellent, now I'll have to try to erase that comparison from my mind.

I truly don't understand why you would create your character around another character you know little to nothing about. What if you don't like her in the actual game? And what are you getting from her pre-release other than some preconceived stereotypes and a few fun facts? Aren't you just giving in to cliches making your character based on what little you know of the LI you are interested in?

 

Your example is far-fetched since we aren't talking about one-night stand here.

 

When I make new character in the game I wonder what kind of story I want to playthrough this time, what kind of romance fits to the story and the characters. Often it starts with LI, though not always, like I want to romance Thane this time, I wonder what kind of Shepard would fit with him. It's thought-process that aims for most enjoyable story for me as the player. I get ideas of characters and balance them out with LI's then let them evolve during the actual playing.

 

Also if you look at information we got before DAI, there was quite lot and of course I will do many playthroughs and learn about characters in the actual game so it's not like I decide who I want to romance based on just looks and stereotypes.

[Keitaro57]

What I want for the LI : randomness.

You never know what character will be : Bi, ****** or straight. A jump in the unknown, like a real-life experience. That would be funny...

[dragonflight288]

I have no real issue regarding how Bioware announces characters. 

 

It doesn't affect how I plan my playthroughs, unless I'm absolutely spoiled on the main story, big decisions, in which case I'd likely shake my fist at the person giving the spoiler. 

 

I mean, take Sera in Inquisition for example. I got some of what made her, her, in the reveal but I certainly did not expect her to be so willfully ignorant on things that make her uncomfortable or challenges her beliefs, nor did I expect that she'd knee a guy in the face to death. I knew she lived in the moment because she wasn't concerned with what was right rather than what was right now, but that came nowhere close to explaining her.

 

But if anything, I think Bioware can take a leaf out of Obsidion's book when it came to KOTOR II. Having a companion change based on alignment and gender, so in order to experience every character and what the game has to offer, we need to vary our gameplay. 

[Navasha]

I don't mind either way.   That's the kind of knowledge I don't partake before a game release.   While they pretty much revealed everything about your companions before releasing DA:I, I purposefully avoided anything that could be a spoiler and didn't seek it out.   

 

I do think Bioware does themselves a bit of harm in releasing way too much information prior to release.   All they do is overbuild hype.   While that might be great for sales, it also comes with the inevitable blowback of increasing expectations to levels that they can't realistically meet. 

[Pasquale1234]

Let ME be ME and play other games that allow that like Star Wars the Old Republic instead of forcing every game to be the same.

Forcing every game to be the same? Funny stuff.

The suggestions I made would provide much more roleplaying freedom, more extensible NPCs, and allow every playthrough to be different.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Leliana requires some moderate pacing, because if her approval level is too high too soon, you remove the dialogue option that asks about bards being spies, locking out the quest to find Marjolaine. I always hate breaking quests.

Isn't it possible to lock out certain romance actions for each of the other party members if the approval goes up too fast?

[ZoliCs]

BioWare shouldn't reveal characters at all before release. /unpopular opinion

 

Seriously, though, they'd be better off spending their marketing dollars trying to hook people who might not be buying their game no matter what.

 

As for the hardcore fans, remember that first BW game you picked up on a whim, and how floored you were by the characters? Knowing so much about them before release is going to make recapturing that magic all the more difficult.

 

Edit: Ninja'd by a like-minded Bro.

 

I agree with this. Because I knew in advance that Varric will be in DAI when I actually saw him first time in game I was like:

 

Instead of being like:

[Battlebloodmage]

Forcing every game to be the same? Funny stuff.

The suggestions I made would provide much more roleplaying freedom, more extensible NPCs, and allow every playthrough to be different.

Nah, more like sugarcoating a terrible idea.

[Pasquale1234]

Nah, more like sugarcoating a terrible idea.

If you're going to make accusations, perhaps you can explain why my suggestions would not provide the stated benefits.

[daveliam]

I personally like knowing who the companions/squad members are prior to release.  In fact, it's one of my favorite aspects of the pre-release buzz about Bioware games.  I love pouring through image after image, statement after statement, link after link trying to figure out if I can determine who's going to be on the roster for the game.  I can't tell you how many hours I spent doing this for DA:I (and, except for damn Cole, was pretty good at it too).  So I'd personally like them to continue doing that.  I figure this:  If they release the information, people who don't want it can avoid spoilers (as best as possible), but if they don't release it, then no one gets to know, even if they want to. 

 

I'm mixed on the 'who will be a romance option and what will their sexuality be' piece.  Up until now, I've been a big proponent of it because I'm part of a group that often doesn't have options for my preferred characters (gay males).  So it's always been a way for me to just get it out of the way:  either rip off the band-aid and give me time to deal with my disappointment or, recently, dance around in celebration that I'm getting multiple options and then move on to focus on other things.  Now that they've been more consistent with giving multiple options for gay PCs, I'm less worried about it.  Although, to be honest, the ME team was really bad about this for a while, so I'd probably want to know ahead of time just to be safe.  I'd hate to have another "The PC can't be gay, unless you mean lesbian, in which case it's hot so it's okay" approach.  Doubtful, but I'm still a bit gun shy about this.

[mickey111]

Well, I guess as long as there's no straight characters it's ok, straight people are boring and having them in the game enforces the oppression of minorities.

 

#killallheteros

[NM_Che56]

I think, in general, knowing too much about the game takes away from it.  It creates a disconnect.  In this case, how does your character know the sexual orientation of other characters if they've never met?  That's the kind of disconnect I'm talking about.  

 

It's a ROLE PLAYING game.  To me, part of that means you learn about the characters and the universe organically as would your character.  Your character doesn't have some omniscient being over their shoulder saying, "hey, that character? don't bother.  you're not their "type" if you know what I mean".

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If we go according to 2/2/2 checklist, and then make one per orientation an asexual character, then you essentially take away one LI per type.

 

Why?

 

Yes, everyone can still play them, just like everyone can still play homosexual romances despite being heterosexual IRL,

but not everyone wants to.

 

Just like IRL, sex is an important part of most romantic relationships, and for many people (I could probably say most people) finding out that your romantic interest is not interested in sex would be a big deal - potentially relationship-ending big, not out of spite but due to... incompatibility and a potential source of frustration. (the two sides are speaking in a different language if you will)

 

So, going with that line of thought into role playing, most protagonists will react the same, and this is why for most people you would be taking something away.

 

 

I'm curious, since homosexual and heterosexual LI's are "the only orientations that take options away", do you support the "playersexual" idea?

You made a lot of inaccurate assumptions about my post. I never said have one per orientation be asexual. Having even one asexual or demisexual LI would be great. And if it bugs people that much, have it be the seventh extra one. They've done more than 7 before. 

Also just because someone is asexual does not mean they are celibate. Many asexuals do have sex, it's just for reasons other than personal satisfaction like procreation or satisfying their partner. And demisexuals experience a desire for it, just it involves certain circumstances first.

In some ways yes, in some ways no. You were just arguing that asexual or demisexual LIs remove options when that isn't the case since they'd still be available to everyone unlike some other orientations. 

[wright1978]

I think before release they should let people know orientation for those that wish to know.

With the small pool of options i think it is good to know and helps with building a character to play, knowing you've got a template for their romantic arc, whilst still keeping the exact details under wraps.

[RiptideX1090]

Make the characters playersexual, like DA2. It's a game, an experience that should give players as many options as possible. Not as a medium for social commentary. I'm so tired of not being able to romance the characters I like the most because the game puts arbitrary limitations on it. I get enough of that sort of rejection in real life.

[Panda]

I personally like knowing who the companions/squad members are prior to release.  In fact, it's one of my favorite aspects of the pre-release buzz about Bioware games.  I love pouring through image after image, statement after statement, link after link trying to figure out if I can determine who's going to be on the roster for the game.  I can't tell you how many hours I spent doing this for DA:I (and, except for damn Cole, was pretty good at it too).  So I'd personally like them to continue doing that.  I figure this:  If they release the information, people who don't want it can avoid spoilers (as best as possible), but if they don't release it, then no one gets to know, even if they want to. 

 

I'm mixed on the 'who will be a romance option and what will their sexuality be' piece.  Up until now, I've been a big proponent of it because I'm part of a group that often doesn't have options for my preferred characters (gay males).  So it's always been a way for me to just get it out of the way:  either rip off the band-aid and give me time to deal with my disappointment or, recently, dance around in celebration that I'm getting multiple options and then move on to focus on other things.  Now that they've been more consistent with giving multiple options for gay PCs, I'm less worried about it.  Although, to be honest, the ME team was really bad about this for a while, so I'd probably want to know ahead of time just to be safe.  I'd hate to have another "The PC can't be gay, unless you mean lesbian, in which case it's hot so it's okay" approach.  Doubtful, but I'm still a bit gun shy about this.

 

Somehow this reminded me of all romance threads full of guesses on who was going to be LI and who they were going to be into.. I'm sure some wait this with horror, but I'm actually bit excited to spazz about companions and LI's and fail miserably at my guesses.. What you mean Ser Bara isn't actually Bara!

[Mihura]

Somehow this reminded me of all romance threads full of guesses on who was going to be LI and who they were going to be into.. I'm sure some wait this with horror, but I'm actually bit excited to spazz about companions and LI's and fail miserably at my guesses.. What you mean Ser Bara isn't actually Bara!

 

Could not agree more, is not really about the knowing who is gay, hetero, bi, demi, pan and so on... it is the journey. 

 

I am more exited to know about the new LIs for ME 4 than some classes dps or AOE range, why? well because I love to build my characters and some of them have romances. I adore all the speculation and jokes around them too, and I love to make guesses base on their design, which most of the time are kinda on point. 

[wright1978]

Make the characters playersexual, like DA2. It's a game, an experience that should give players as many options as possible. Not as a medium for social commentary. I'm so tired of not being able to romance the characters I like the most because the game puts arbitrary limitations on it. I get enough of that sort of rejection in real life.

 

Agree completely, it should be about ensuring options and levels of content over social commentary imo.

[BabyPuncher]

Make the characters playersexual, like DA2. It's a game, an experience that should give players as many options as possible. Not as a medium for social commentary. I'm so tired of not being able to romance the characters I like the most because the game puts arbitrary limitations on it. I get enough of that sort of rejection in real life.

 

The classic 'real life sucks and is full of meanies and I need this game to feel better' argument.

[Mihura]

The classic 'real life sucks and is full of meanies and I need this game to feel better' argument.

 

No, it is more like "games are not real and full of pixels, they have magic, dragons and blue people. Also did I mention not real?".

[Panda]

Could not agree more, is not really about the knowing who is gay, hetero, bi, demi, pan and so on... it is the journey. 

 

I am more exited to know about the new LIs for ME 4 than some classes dps or AOE range, why? well because I love to build my characters and some of them have romances. I adore all the speculation and jokes around them too, and I love to make guesses base on their design, which most of the time are kinda on point. 

 

Some of pre-release stuff of DAI was golden Dramatic Hands Moustache Guy what was Dorian's name months, speculation if warrior guy in the leak is Cullen or just Cullen looking character, people calling Solas Voldemort and questioning him being romance option when after release he became fanfavorite alongside others, Ser Bara being Blackwall and not being so Bara anymore.. Good times

 

I'm more into romance content and LI's than many other aspect of the game as well, since although I like good gameplay, I still mostly enjoy characters and story in the games ^^