62 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

We've lost details from before the age of digital information. Losing the details of the Reaper war and Commander Shepard is an impossibility without a galaxy-wide dark age. And why, in an enlightened galaxy, would Shepard have become a Christ-like figure?

I think you're taking "details", a word used to accommodate for all Shepard world-states, a tad too literally. If the game is any indication of the recollection, then Stargazer obviously got the main historical points right. The storyteller wouldn't know without a point of reference.

Why is calling Shepard "The Shepard" instantly forcing him/her to be a Christ-like figure? It's just a nickname, a moniker. Shepard gathered people together to combat the Reapers. Hence, "The Shepard".

More historical nicknames: http://www.cracked.c...-nicknames.html
 

It's not like that planet was forced on BioWare. They wrote that scene. It was entirely up to them to show what's happening long after Shepard fired the Crucible. Why would they choose some lone backwater that isn't indicative of what's actually happening?
It makes no sense.

Because they were trying not to step on the toes of countless headcanons with the scene's intentions (in the future, to which all endings share common and benign variables, everyone's fine and dandy!), and it's easier to do that away from cities or other major hubs.
 

Apply a bit of logic instead of looking for the most convoluted answer.

I don't see it as convoluted, though I do acknowledge flaws in the inclusive vagueness of the scene. Technology wasn't destroyed or lost in any of the endings; Destroy is arguably debatable, but everything's perfectly intact in Control and Synthesis. The relays were knocked out of commission for a time, but there was no "galactic dark age". Details can, and do, change with time though, and significant figures in history are constantly reevaluated.

[AllianceGrunt]

That never even made sense before the EC. If the protheans could build relays, so could we, in another century or two.

 

The protheans didn't build the Mass Relays. 

[countofhell]

The only one way i can accept the Asari Stargazer scene is that the Asari only escaped the harvest via underground "XTX" based devices. That is the scene where Liara's device start to work, someone outside the picture, a possible survivor activated Liara's device.

Maybe there are survivors underground as did the Leviathans hiding deep underwater ? It sounds a bit weird but i can't just beleive in something else right now.

[dreamgazer]

The protheans didn't build the Mass Relays.

[countofhell]

dreamgazer, AllianceGrunt meant "those" mass relays, not this one you know. :-)

[AlanC9]

The protheans didn't build the Mass Relays.

They built two. Small ones, sure, but functional.

Arguably better than the Reaper relays, since with lots of Conduits you wouldn't need spaceships at all. It's never really been clear why the Reapers put relays in deep space. This just encourages organics to develop spacecraft

[dreamgazer]

dreamgazer, AllianceGrunt meant "those" mass relays, not this one you know. :-)

Aware, 100%. No change in relevance.

[goishen]

 

 

K, I think you're all forgetting something.  

 

How did Sovereign, a massive Starship get down here, fly through the tunnels that we just drove through, and hit with precision something big enough for the Mako to go through?

 

Suspend disbelief.

 

Also, killroy is prolly referring to the Stargazer as a pedophile because he calls the kid "my sweet".  It's not really bad, it's just something that taken out of context can be bad.

[AlanC9]

How did Sovereign, a massive Starship get down here, fly through the tunnels that we just drove through, and hit with precision something big enough for the Mako to go through?
 

Huh?

[goishen]

Huh?

 

 

Sovereign went through the conduit.   You're looking at the conduit, in that picture above.

[Morty Smith]

Sovereign went through the conduit.

 

Na-ah.

[AlanC9]

Sovereign went through the Conduit?

[Morty Smith]

Sovereign went through the Conduit?

 

Yeah, didn´t you see him cramped up with Saren and the geth inside that elevator?

[Dunmer of Redoran]

If the main character is a child of the stargazer, I would be curious about what the one more story that was told to me about 'the' Shepard

 

Commander Shepard met the Hero of Ferelden who traveled through an Eluvian, they meet up with Revan (he showed up somehow because he's Revan) and they all host one heck of a dance party.

 

Revan force chokes a guy when he swears that Kaidan sounds exactly like Carth and no one believes him. Hilarity ensues when the HoF uses Andraste's ashes to heal the victim before Shepard forks over billions of credits to have them reconstructed.

[dreamgazer]

Sovereign went through the conduit.

[v0rt3x22]

K, I think you're all forgetting something.

How did Sovereign, a massive Starship get down here, fly through the tunnels that we just drove through, and hit with precision something big enough for the Mako to go through?

Suspend disbelief.

Also, killroy is prolly referring to the Stargazer as a pedophile because he calls the kid "my sweet". It's not really bad, it's just something that taken out of context can be bad.

To clarify since no one seems to have:

It wasn't sovereign who went through the conduit but Saren.

In one of the end cinematics you can see sovereign arriving at citadel space through a mass relay.

Saren went through the conduit since the keepers no longer accepted commands by sovereign to activate the citadel and allow the reapers to return.

He used this 'backdoor' as a means to quickly gain control of the citadel at the citadel tower.

[v0rt3x22]

That never even made sense before the EC. If the protheans could build relays, so could we, in another century or two.

The protheans didn't build the relays.
The reapers did.

It allowed them to control the advancement of civilizations on the paths they desired

[AlanC9]

The protheans didn't build the relays.
The reapers did.
It allowed them to control the advancement of civilizations on the paths they desired

And, again, the protheans built two relays of their own.

[v0rt3x22]

Why is calling Shepard "The Shepard" instantly forcing him/her to be a Christ-like figure? It's just a nickname, a moniker.

I agree and disagree.

BioWare obviously got religious inspirations here but perhaps not necessarily religious intents.

"The shepard" isn't just nickname.

It symbolises someone who protects and tends to those in need.

There are many other examples in the franchise.

"The conduit", "The catalyst", "The crucible"

Bioware went a bit nuts on its religious references.

It's easy to see why people now call shepard the space jesus but I think it's exactly this analogy that has caused people to discredit the true intentions of the developers and the actual story of mass effect.

[v0rt3x22]

 It's never really been clear why the Reapers put relays in deep space. This just encourages organics to develop spacecraft

 

Actually its very clear.

 

The relays not only allowed Reapers to determine whether a civilization is advanced enough to harvest (space travel would suggest to the reapers that they probably are) - but also the relay network allowed reapers to coordinate and (relatively quickly) invade the various species.

It ensures that civilizations don't just randomly colonize the galaxy anywhere - but closer to the relay network - which makes it easier for reapers to reach these systems.

[AlanC9]

Actually its very clear.

The relays not only allowed Reapers to determine whether a civilization is advanced enough to harvest (space travel would suggest to the reapers that they probably are) - but also the relay network allowed reapers to coordinate and (relatively quickly) invade the various species.
It ensures that civilizations don't just randomly colonize the galaxy anywhere - but closer to the relay network - which makes it easier for reapers to reach these systems.

But why put the relays the organics are intended to use in space? Why not put them on the planets? Reapers won't fit, but you can run two separate networks -- one for organics and one for Reapers. You don't need any secondaries in space, since the Reapers can just fly anyplace a secondary can send them.

[v0rt3x22]

But why put the relays in space? Why not put them on the planets?

 

Beeeecause relays are meant for spaceships? 

It is a means to analyze whether a civilization is advanced enough to reach the relays and by doing so - worthy to harvest by the reapers.

The reapers wanted to harvest all "advanced" civilizations.

 

What is a civilization if not advanced if it has achieved spaceflight and FTL travel to reach relays.

[AlanC9]

Beeeecause relays are meant for spaceships

It is a means to analyze whether a civilization is advanced enough to reach the relays and by doing so - worthy to harvest by the reapers.
The reapers wanted to harvest all "advanced" civilizations.
 
What is a civilization if not advanced if it has achieved spaceflight and FTL travel to reach relays.

What are you talking about? The reaper motivations have nothing to do with organics developing FTL. They let organics have the mass effect drive.

[Matthias King]

I appreciate what the scene's trying to accomplish

 

I do too.

 

I think that scene would be viewed much differently had the actual ending that preceded it been good. I think that scene, exactly as is, would have felt much more effective and would be looked back on now with reverence if the ending had actually been satisfying. 

 

But as it is now, we all associate that scene with a horrible, nonsense ending, and it leaves a bad taste in our mouths through no real fault if its own.

 

Admittedly, the 'the Shepard' thing is rather heavy-handed, but as I said, if the ending had been good, I think we'd all be much more forgiving.

 

It's damned mostly by association.

[v0rt3x22]

What are you talking about? The reaper motivations have nothing to do with organics developing FTL. They let organics have the mass effect drive.

The Reaper motivations are to harvest all advanced civilization. 

That does not mean all civilization, period.

 

The Reapers do not simply want to kill everything in the galaxy.

This is only emphasized in the story because we are one of the advanced civilizations.

 

So in order to assess (as a Reaper) whether or not a civilization is advanced - they need a way to judge that.

 

Thus, as you correctly say - they do let organics develop FTL.

Their actual motives (to harvest all advanced civilizations) is thereby linked to these civilizations advancing to that level.