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[Dai Grepher]

Don't know where to post this, so I'll do it here. I'm an hour in, and I got to the part where a certain councilmember refers to who rules Orlais.

 

Well, what he says contradicts my worldstate. Or at least I think it does. I saved Celene and secured a three-way deadlock, with Gaspard as the General, and Briala as a spymaster of sorts. Yet the councilmember refers to Gaspard as sitting on the throne.

 

So is this a bug, or did Gaspard take over? If it's the latter, then I don't see how my Inquisitor is to blame for that.

 

Also, in my worldstate, female rogue Hawke was Viscountess of Kirkwall. Yet speaking with Varric implies... that this is not the case, or is no longer the case. Again, is this a bug?

[Reznore57]

It's a bug.

You can  find a codex talking about Celene ruling with Briala.

 

Hawke viscount I don't know.I assume Hawke loose his viscount job no matter what.

[Wulfram]

It's a bug.
You can  find a codex talking about Celene ruling with Briala.
 
Hawke viscount I don't know.I assume Hawke loose his viscount job no matter what.

Yeah. Hawke's forced out by the Templars after they get messed up by Red Lyrium. I'm not really sure why they don't get it back though.

[Dai Grepher]

Thanks for the answers. So this should be the only instance of the ruler of Orlais being referred to incorrectly, right?

 

It was my understanding that Hawke left Kirkwall because of the Red Templars, and to contact Stroud about the Wardens, but that she would go back and continue her duties after everything was settled.

 

So BioWare just made Hawke even more irrelevant?

[Arlee]

Yeah. Hawke's forced out by the Templars after they get messed up by Red Lyrium. I'm not really sure why they don't get it back though.

 

Because if Hawk is alive he/she is up in Weishaupt dealing with wtvr the hell is going on there. I know in my most recent pt Varric mentioned he got news about Hawke being there and how things are far more messed up than any of us thought.

[riverbanks]

So BioWare just made Hawke even more irrelevant?

Yup. Who cares about our player characters when there's a chance to make Varric shine, yeah. (salty about this for the next 75 years)

But yeah, this was the last of Hawke's choices that still made any difference in the story even in a small way. Now it truly doesn't matter who your Hawke was or what they did, they've been rendered completely irrelevant to the world, in every possible way. :\

[diaspora2k5]

Varric is better than Hawke anyway.

[AtreiyaN7]

Thanks for the answers. So this should be the only instance of the ruler of Orlais being referred to incorrectly, right?

 

It was my understanding that Hawke left Kirkwall because of the Red Templars, and to contact Stroud about the Wardens, but that she would go back and continue her duties after everything was settled.

 

So BioWare just made Hawke even more irrelevant?

 

In the epilogue, Varric and my Hawke were back together in Kirkwall, with Hawke assisting/supporting Varric in his role as the new viscount - this is apparently after the events of Trespasser, so I don't really find that being a case of rendering Hawke irrelevant.

 

They're really good, close friends, and frankly, after all the crap that my Hawke has been through, I'm sort of happy that she's leading a reasonably quiet life with a slightly lower profile and no longer has to deal with the headaches of unwanted leadership. Honestly, after Meredith and everything, I pretty much would have flipped the bird to anyone who suggested that my Hawke continue on as Viscount of Kirkwall, but that's just me.

 

I certainly wish they'd been a little more informative/descriptive about exactly what went down at Weisshaupt and what Hawke was specifically there for when Varric mentioned her excursion there during one of our conversations, but eh, the epilogue made it easy to figure out that the problem did get resolved and that Hawke returned safe and sound. My HoF is still running around while searching for the cure, my Hawke can finally rest (more or less), and my Inquisitor is semi-but-not-really-retired (and might possibly reappear again/be mentioned in some capacity in the future, judging by the end of the DLC...). All in all, I'm good with their current fates.

 

As for the bug, yeah, I also heard Gaspard mentioned despite putting Celene and Briala on the throne (in the codex, it's still them - besides, I think someone made a comment about them, unless that was in one of the notes I read...it was something along the lines of them going at it like bunnies/being really besotted with each other - can't remember the exact wording).

[riverbanks]

Honestly, after Meredith and everything, I pretty much would have flipped the bird to anyone who suggested that my Hawke continue on as Viscount of Kirkwall, but that's just me.

 

Yeah, but that's the problem. It fits for some characters, but not all. My Hawke would never have left the throne, certainly not willingly, and certainly not to someone as irresponsible and flippant about it as Varric. But different character personalities are not taken into account, it's a point blank decision made for every player whether you like it or not. 

 

 I get the BW philosophy of "the character is no longer yours after the game is over," but there has to be less intrusive ways to play that. The Warden's personality is not challenged in that way, they're taken out of the picture in a vague enough way that you can determine how or why they left. Hawke's fate could have been left just as vague, without forcing this super OOC outcome for some Hawkes onto every player.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yeah, but that's the problem. It fits for some characters, but not all. My Hawke would never have left the throne, certainly not willingly, and certainly not to someone as irresponsible and flippant about it as Varric. But different character personalities are not taken into account, it's a point blank decision made for every player whether you like it or not. 

 

 I get the BW philosophy of "the character is no longer yours after the game is over," but there has to be less intrusive ways to play that. The Warden's personality is not challenged in that way, they're taken out of the picture in a vague enough way that you can determine how or why they left. Hawke's fate could have been left just as vague, without forcing this super OOC outcome for some Hawkes onto every player.

 

Hardly, the warden can also have a lot OOC moments depending on the warden like that every warden stays with wardens , establishing the warden faith in case of dalish or dwarven wardens ,letter or whole quest to cure the calling.The only difference is that they provided hawke with even more moments to act OOC.That is why bringing pc in rpg back as npc is bad idea.

[Dai Grepher]

In the epilogue, Varric and my Hawke were back together in Kirkwall, with Hawke assisting/supporting Varric in his role as the new viscount - this is apparently after the events of Trespasser, so I don't really find that being a case of rendering Hawke irrelevant.

 

They're really good, close friends, and frankly, after all the crap that my Hawke has been through, I'm sort of happy that she's leading a reasonably quiet life with a slightly lower profile and no longer has to deal with the headaches of unwanted leadership. Honestly, after Meredith and everything, I pretty much would have flipped the bird to anyone who suggested that my Hawke continue on as Viscount of Kirkwall, but that's just me.

 

 

Okay then. She's not totally irrelevant. And while my Hawke hated the pressure of ruling as well, I think I would have still preferred her to be stuck in the position as a burden to bear. I'd rather have had the situation reversed, with Hawke in charge and Varric assisting as Seneschal. I think that would have made more sense than Varric being elected and especially accepting the title, and I think her suffering adds to her character. Also, with her having quit, I would expect her to go to Sebastian's side, not Varric's. But maybe that will be the case in my epilogue. Also, I expect her to keep circle mage Bethany safe. But dang, it would have been cool for the next protag to visit Kirkwall and meet with Viscountess Hawke. Almost as good as going to Denerim to meet with a King Cousland.

[Dai Grepher]

Yeah, but that's the problem. It fits for some characters, but not all. My Hawke would never have left the throne, certainly not willingly, and certainly not to someone as irresponsible and flippant about it as Varric. But different character personalities are not taken into account, it's a point blank decision made for every player whether you like it or not. 

 

 I get the BW philosophy of "the character is no longer yours after the game is over," but there has to be less intrusive ways to play that. The Warden's personality is not challenged in that way, they're taken out of the picture in a vague enough way that you can determine how or why they left. Hawke's fate could have been left just as vague, without forcing this super OOC outcome for some Hawkes onto every player.

 

Agreed. But Hawke was never our character. DA2 was just one big Leliana's Song.

 

I think I can accept just about any story they do with her though, and I think it's because I don't think of her as my character. Mine is just the default female rogue Hawke. No custom name or anything.

[Wulfram]

Even aside from the viscountcy its kinda annoying to have Hawke just get stuck in Kirkwall again

[Ryzaki]

Even aside from the viscountcy its kinda annoying to have Hawke just get stuck in Kirkwall again

 

This my Hawke would've never returned to that dumpster bin.

[Dai Grepher]

Yeah but she does have an estate there, right?

[Ryzaki]

He'd sold that thing and bounced. The only fond memories of Kirkwall he had were of Fenris.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I liked the outcome. As I mentioned in another thread, my Hawke finally won; Kirkwall was finally safe and the mages were free. It meant that all of that suffering turned out to be meaningful after all.

[Dai Grepher]

But would Hawke want to preserve that estate out of respect for mother's memory? It was supposed to be hers, and Hawke fought pretty hard to see that estate restored to the rightful family member. Also, if Kirkwall is a dump, then it's an opportunity to build it into something greater, right? But this is why I think Hawke should have remained in charge, with Varric's help.

[Mr.House]

Personally, I think the writers just forgot Hawke could be viscount, because there's no reason Varric should become viscount if Hawke was already viscount since they return to kirkwall for good.

 

At least I hope they forgot, because the alternative is far worse.

[Reznore57]

Personally, I think the writers just forgot Hawke could be viscount, because there's no reason Varric should become viscount if Hawke was already viscount since they return to kirkwall for good.

 

At least I hope they forgot, because the alternative is far worse.

 

I'm trying to picture a ruthless Hawke who was Varric rival and ended up Viscount in DAI.

Instead of helping Varric I imagine sending the Crows after him would work better.

[Arlee]

I'm trying to picture a ruthless Hawke who was Varric rival and ended up Viscount in DAI.

Instead of helping Varric I imagine sending the Crows after him would work better.

 

Yea, I'm trying to figure out why Hawke wasn't mentioned in my end slides with Varric. The only mention of Hawke in my game was Varric mentioned hearing she was still at the Warden place and **** was real bad there.

[riverbanks]

Agreed. But Hawke was never our character. DA2 was just one big Leliana's Song.

 

I think I can accept just about any story they do with her though, and I think it's because I don't think of her as my character. Mine is just the default female rogue Hawke. No custom name or anything.

 

Yeah, I'm the total opposite of this. Hawke was certainly my character, alright. She had her own look, her own name, her own story, her personality, her beliefs, her relatioships with both her close friends and general acquaintances around Kirkwall, and even with Kirkwall itself. She was as much my character as the Hero of Ferelden, the Orlesian Warden-Commander, or the Inquisitor, and I care as much about her having a fate consistent with her story as I do about any of the others.

 

Well, if nothing else about this Viscount stuff makes any sense, at least I'm glad the writers are allowing Hawke to have a happy ending, and not pushing some further forced tragedy onto the character.

 

Even aside from the viscountcy its kinda annoying to have Hawke just get stuck in Kirkwall again

This my Hawke would've never returned to that dumpster bin.

 

Fortunately for my Hawke, the way her romance with Sebastian played out gives her options to get away from this mess of a cop out. She tried, she gave everything to that city, but if all the gratitude Kirkwall has to show is a boot to make way for the next Most Irresponsible Head of State Ever, then... sure, so be it. At least she still has Starkhaven to move to, and that's an upgrade if Hawke ever had one - trading the literal hellmouth of Thedas for a nice, prosperous city, where people don't randomly start doing blood magic or turning into abominations in the middle of the streets. It's not the ending I originally had in mind for my Hawke, but it's... actually better than I expected. Bethany and Orana did deserve better than Kirkwall, anyway.

 

I imagine it could be the same for Fenris, Isabela or Merrill romancers too. Hawke can be out there killing slavers with Fenris, sailing out with Isabela, threading flower crows with Merrill... they can just go chase that rainbow and never have to come back to Kirkwall again. 

[Dai Grepher]

Yeah, I'm the total opposite of this. Hawke was certainly my character, alright. She had her own look, her own name, her own story, her personality, her beliefs, her relatioships with both her close friends and general acquaintances around Kirkwall, and even with Kirkwall itself. She was as much my character as the Hero of Ferelden, the Orlesian Warden-Commander, or the Inquisitor, and I care as much about her having a fate consistent with her story as I do about any of the others.

 

Well, if nothing else about this Viscount stuff makes any sense, at least I'm glad the writers are allowing Hawke to have a happy ending, and not pushing some further forced tragedy onto the character.

 

 

Fortunately for my Hawke, the way her romance with Sebastian played out gives her options to get away from this mess of a cop out. She tried, she gave everything to that city, but if all the gratitude Kirkwall has to show is a boot to make way for the next Most Irresponsible Head of State Ever, then... sure, so be it. At least she still has Starkhaven to move to, and that's an upgrade if Hawke ever had one - trading the literal hellmouth of Thedas for a nice, prosperous city, where people don't randomly start doing blood magic or turning into abominations in the middle of the streets. It's not the ending I originally had in mind for my Hawke, but it's... actually better than I expected. Bethany and Orana did deserve better than Kirkwall, anyway.

 

I imagine it could be the same for Fenris, Isabela or Merrill romancers too. Hawke can be out there killing slavers with Fenris, sailing out with Isabela, threading flower crows with Merrill... they can just go chase that rainbow and never have to come back to Kirkwall again. 

 

Yeah but with the Hero, in the human noble origin anyway, you had the opportunity to define the Hero's background and personality in numerous ways. Sort of the same with the Inquisitor. Talking to certain people opened up dialogue choices that could define your past. I'm not sure if there was all that much of this in DA2. But present day friendships and responses did define Hawke, but in ways that BioWare wanted. With the Hero and Inquisitor, it felt like there were paths outside of what BioWare wanted (indicated by their inability to account for all of it, I guess).

 

I had my female rogue Hawke romance Sebastian as well. I would think she'd have gone there instead.

 

In any case, it would have been nice if BioWare had let us decide Hawke's fate ourselves aside from the basic choice of life or unknown fate against the Nightmare.
 

[Ryzaki]

Fortunately for my Hawke, the way her romance with Sebastian played out gives her options to get away from this mess of a cop out. She tried, she gave everything to that city, but if all the gratitude Kirkwall has to show is a boot to make way for the next Most Irresponsible Head of State Ever, then... sure, so be it. At least she still has Starkhaven to move to, and that's an upgrade if Hawke ever had one - trading the literal hellmouth of Thedas for a nice, prosperous city, where people don't randomly start doing blood magic or turning into abominations in the middle of the streets. It's not the ending I originally had in mind for my Hawke, but it's... actually better than I expected. Bethany and Orana did deserve better than Kirkwall, anyway.

 

I imagine it could be the same for Fenris, Isabela or Merrill romancers too. Hawke can be out there killing slavers with Fenris, sailing out with Isabela, threading flower crows with Merrill... they can just go chase that rainbow and never have to come back to Kirkwall again. 

 

Yep and the rest of his family are dead so he really has 0 reason to want to go back to hellmount. Why can't I travel kicking Tevinter ass with Fenris

[AtreiyaN7]

Okay then. She's not totally irrelevant. And while my Hawke hated the pressure of ruling as well, I think I would have still preferred her to be stuck in the position as a burden to bear. I'd rather have had the situation reversed, with Hawke in charge and Varric assisting as Seneschal. I think that would have made more sense than Varric being elected and especially accepting the title, and I think her suffering adds to her character. Also, with her having quit, I would expect her to go to Sebastian's side, not Varric's. But maybe that will be the case in my epilogue. Also, I expect her to keep circle mage Bethany safe. But dang, it would have been cool for the next protag to visit Kirkwall and meet with Viscountess Hawke. Almost as good as going to Denerim to meet with a King Cousland.

 

Well, Varric has money up the wazoo now (Hawke probably doesn't have nearly as big a bankroll atm), and honestly, I think very few people in Kirkwall are all that fond of Hawke after the Chantry going kaboom, etc. Additionally, I think Varric said all the other nobles in Kirkwall pretty much think the office of Viscount is cursed at this point, so maybe we are better off with someone else taking the risk in the end - hehe.

 

In all seriousness, though, Varric does seem to be capable and does fairly well at the business/trade side of things and managing complex networks of people. Looking at it from that standpoint, I feel that Varric actually has the experience to do a better job at running the city as Viscount. That being said, you never know when one of our past heroes might pop up. Considering how much of a threat Solas could pose in the near future, it's at least conceivable that one or more of our previous heroes might be needed to help deal with things (in the form of limited cameos/roles probably, if we're being realistic).