93 réponses à ce sujet

[Teddie Sage]

I thought this was worth the share. If you enjoy studying the lore and analyzing it as she does, this might interest you.

If you wish to contact her, you might do so on her youtube comments or through twitter. 

[leaguer of one]

So in short........Rock and a hard place or pan and the fire.

[Wahed89]

I love the imagination shown here and the amount of evidence she can provide. It would certainly make sense for the titans to have "servants". I don't agree with it all. For starters I think the "we are sleeping. we wait. we are not chill. we mad yo" codex is the forgotten ones or the evanuris, specifically as they say "we found the dreams again". Also, I'm not sure I think the titans "speak" in words, if that makes sense. 

 

Also I don't buy that Flemeth is their agent.

[The_Prophet_of_Donk]

I love the imagination shown here and the amount of evidence she can provide. It would certainly make sense for the titans to have "servants". I don't agree with it all. For starters I think the "we are sleeping. we wait. we are not chill. we mad yo" codex is the forgotten ones or the evanuris, specifically as they say "we found the dreams again". Also, I'm not sure I think the titans "speak" in words, if that makes sense. 

 

Also I don't buy that Flemeth is their agent.

I haven't watched the video yet, but how could Flemeth be an agen of the Titans?

Spoiler

Doing a bad job seeing as she seemed dead last we saw her....

[leaguer of one]

I haven't watched the video yet, but how could Flemeth be an agen of the Titans?

Spoiler

Doing a bad job seeing as she seemed dead last we saw her....

Spoiler

Not Flemeth per say. It's Mythal. It's a theory the Mythal survived her murder thanks to the powers of the Titan. That and the fact her shrine in the frost back is influences by Lyrium. Flemeth is controlled via proxy of Mythal. Also, how the avvar worship Mythal, the lady in the sky, and the titan in frost back, mountain father.

[AstraDrakkar]

After watching the video... I like this theory. I don't know if everything works with it but there are definite connections.

[Teddie Sage]

After watching the video... I like this theory. I don't know if everything works with it but there are definite connections.

Which is why I posted it. Ashe really is good to pick up all the small pieces of a puzzle and assemble them together.

[Reznore57]

Spoiler

Not Flemeth per say. It's Mythal. It's a theory the Mythal survived her murder thanks to the powers of the Titan. That and the fact her shrine in the frost back is influences by Lyrium. Flemeth is controlled via proxy of Mythal. Also, how the avvar worship Mythal, the lady in the sky, and the titan in frost back, mountain father.

 

Spoiler

I doubt it.

There's hints the elves used to be spirits in nature , what happens when you could a spirit?It doesn't truly die , it comes back as a whisp.The true feast Mythal performed was she was able to keep part of her identity and sense of self.

But you can explain that , either because she spend enough time on Thedas to have a strong sense of self (she's one of the oldest elves) or because people kept on sending prayers to Mythal.

Just like the Avaars are able to kill Hakkon and then bring him back to life with prayers.

[Almostfaceman]

So in short........Rock and a hard place or pan and the fire.

 

Right, just like the situation Solas was in, making his decision to raise the Veil. 

 

Well if this theory is correct, I dig it. 

 

Hahahaha! The Titans are the Masters of Indoctrination. Move over, Reapers. 

[leaguer of one]

Spoiler

I doubt it.

There's hints the elves used to be spirits in nature , what happens when you could a spirit?It doesn't truly die , it comes back as a whisp.The true feast Mythal performed was she was able to keep part of her identity and sense of self.

But you can explain that , either because she spend enough time on Thedas to have a strong sense of self (she's one of the oldest elves) or because people kept on sending prayers to Mythal.

Just like the Avaars are able to kill Hakkon and then bring him back to life with prayers.

Spoiler

Base on Solas' statement the elven gods can die. Elves are a product of the fade and the waking world. Not one or the other. The only way to cross out to be a pure spirit takes a lot of power and time. The unbounded are just that, which is pointed out in tresspasser. To keep ones will during this is a matter of power not will power. Killing the spirit part destroys the will and the elven gods would of course know that and do that to kill another elven god, Like how the Magesters went into the fade world to kill the elven dreams. Most likely the elven gods did the same with Mythal.

[Teddie Sage]

Bump.

[Ieldra]

This is a typical conspiracy theory, and the "evidence" is presented in exactly the same way as that of conspiracy theories usually is. Things *could* be easily that way, and *if* you assume the primary assumption is true, *then* the different pieces of evidence fit well. However, there is no evidence at all that the primary assumption actually *is* true, rather than just being one of infinite possible ways to fit things together. There is no positive evidence that really connects those supposed agents to the titan, except for Valta of course.

 

Plainly, that this is a possible truth is trivial, that this is an actual truth lacks any evidence. I reject this hypothesis.

[leaguer of one]

This is a typical conspiracy theory, and the "evidence" is presented in exactly the same way as that of conspiracy theories usually is. Things *could* be easily that way, and *if* you assume the primary assumption is true, *then* the different pieces of evidence fit well. However, there is no evidence at all that the primary assumption actually *is* true, rather than just being one of infinite possible ways to fit things together. There is no positive evidence that really connects those supposed agents to the titan, except for Valta of course.

 

Plainly, that this is a possible truth is trivial, that this is an actual truth lacks any evidence. I reject this hypothesis.

The fact that Mythal's shine is in the frost back, which is all but said a sleeping titan, is not a hint?

[Cobra's_back]

I'm not sure the Titans are the bad guys. First the ancient elves are racist. They could have attacked the Titans for their blood. Titan's blood makes excellent fuel for their magic. 

 

Ancient elven mages were not sweet hearts nor were their human counterparts that started the blight.

[Ieldra]

The fact that Mythal's shine is in the frost back, which is all but said a sleeping titan, is not a hint?

(1) The temple of Mythal is not in the Frostbacks, but south of the Dales

(2) The Temple of Sacred Ashes in the Frostbacks, yet nobody thinks of connecting the Chantry with the titans.

(3) The titan is far underground, below the Deep Roads. "The Frostbacks are a sleeping titan" is very, very far-fetched.

 

So...no. Things are wilfully connected by the creator of this hypothesis. Give me a *real* connection, one that is plausible without presupposing the hypothesis you're trying to prove. If you want to discuss this seriously, consider that there is always an infinite number of hypothetical scenarios that fit any given set of observations. In order to present a hypothesis as plausible, you need an actual connection, not just a possible one.

[leaguer of one]

(1) The temple of Mythal is not in the Frostbacks, but south of the Dales

(2) The Temple of Sacred Ashes in the Frostbacks, yet nobody thinks of connecting the Chantry with the titans.

(3) The titan is far underground, below the Deep Roads. "The Frostbacks are a sleeping titan" is very, very far-fetched.

 

So...no. Things are wilfully connected by the creator of this hypothesis. Give me a *real* connection, one that is plausible without presupposing the hypothesis you're trying to prove. If you want to discuss this seriously, consider that there is always an infinite number of hypothetical scenarios that fit any given set of observations. In order to present a hypothesis as plausible, you need an actual connection, not just a possible one.

1. the temple of Sacred arhes....Not the temple in the dales. I'm taking about the shrine they first thought was Andraste's but turned out to be Mythal's.

2. Orghran makes it a the magic power in the temple is connect to the lyrium and Lillianna if killed becaome a Lyrium ghost. Added all the templer powers come from lyruim which is 100% from Titan.

 

3. Not really. The mountain is filled with Lyuim...which has already prover to power the magic in the area. Added that all lyruim comes from Titan.

 

Sorry but the proof is there.  The temple of Sacred ashes is an elven temple of mythal and its filled with Lyuim and it's power. Added to the fact the Avvar worship this very mountain as well, the avver the was brought here by the sapposive Lady of the sky who in the Ballard of bright axe is described to act just like Flemeth, who is Mythal.

[Ieldra]

Proof? Don't make me laugh. Overblown interpretations of vague hints, localized phenomena being given a meaning beyond their domain, mental influence implied by material connection, assumption of intelligent planning with no evidence at all. All this "proves" is how easy it is to make people believe things they want to believe for unrelated reasons based on spurious evidence. You may also notice that this hypothesis is in parts structurally non-falsifable, by making the claim that agents act unconsciously as agents. Assuming invisible mind-controlling entites makes *anything* possible, and any hypothesis that has to assume them is highly suspicious to start with. 

[leaguer of one]

Proof? Don't make me laugh. Overblown interpretations of vague hints, localized phenomena being given a meaning beyond their domain, mental influence implied by material connection, assumption of intelligent planning with no evidence at all. All this "proves" is how easy it is to make people believe things they want to believe for unrelated reasons based on spurious evidence. You may also notice that this hypothesis is in parts structurally non-falsifable, by making the claim that agents act unconsciously as agents. Assuming invisible mind-controlling entites makes *anything* possible, and any hypothesis that has to assume them is highly suspicious to start with. 

Not at all. Can't say a place with much phenomenon happens by chance. It's a coincidence that the one place where so much phenomenon happen is laced with lyruim, the final rest of Andrastate's Ashes, which are filled with spirits, is also the shrine of Mythal, which is all in a mountain worshiped by the Avvar who was lead by Mythal by under another name?

 

Sorry, but nothing like that happens in one area by chance. It's called cause and effect. The only reason all this can happen in one place is by cause. The fact their is a temple there means it's intentional.

 

Sorry but that is proof supporting the theory. You can't say it's base less if all that is happening in one place.

 

And mind control like this is not new to dragon age.

 

If lighting is striking one place all the time then something is up with the spot it's hitting.

[Almostfaceman]

Proof? Don't make me laugh. Overblown interpretations of vague hints, localized phenomena being given a meaning beyond their domain, mental influence implied by material connection, assumption of intelligent planning with no evidence at all. All this "proves" is how easy it is to make people believe things they want to believe for unrelated reasons based on spurious evidence. You may also notice that this hypothesis is in parts structurally non-falsifable, by making the claim that agents act unconsciously as agents. Assuming invisible mind-controlling entites makes *anything* possible, and any hypothesis that has to assume them is highly suspicious to start with. 

 

Well, I cant speak for anyone else, but "make people believe things they want to believe" is laying it on a bit thick. It's just something fun to ponder at this point. Definitely not something to etch in stone as fact or as part of the codex. Not sure anyone is taking it like that, including the person who posited the theory. 

 

There was some kind of conflict between the Titans and the elven gods. Maybe this was a reason why. Maybe not. 

[Teddie Sage]

Stay polite people. It's just theories after all and I like it.

[Ieldra]

Sorry if I came across a bit rude. The thing is, I like interesting hypotheses about Thedas' lore, but in order to be interesting, they have to have more going for them than "It could be". Also, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the evidence in this case is weak enough to make this global web of titan influence highly improbable.

 

Perhaps people should remember that correlation does not imply causation, and even more so if the evidence is only anecdotal.  

[leaguer of one]

Sorry if I came across a bit rude. The thing is, I like interesting hypotheses about Thedas' lore, but in order to be interesting, they have to have more going for them than "It could be". Also, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the evidence in this case is weak enough to make this global web of titan influence highly improbable.

 

Perhaps people should remember that correlation does not imply causation, and even more so if the evidence is only anecdotal.  

Politely.....

 

Note how much things are going on in the frost back mountain. A few thing happening there, sure you have a point to say these are by chance.

 

Correlation does not imply causation in that case. It just coincidence.

 

But there is way....way too much things going on in the frost back to happen by chance. Too much to say it's a coincidence. 

 

It's a theory, there is nothing that's going to show bonafide proof yet. It there was it would not be a theory but fact.

 

So what extraordinary evidence is need to even show this theory has ground out side what's there? Any more evidence would just make theory into fact.

 

I already listed everything going on in the frost back...how is none of the extraordinary evidence?

[Teddie Sage]

That's what I like about Dragon Age... so many things to discover and to share with the fans... 

Sadly, I got a terrible sight so I can't spend hours and hours reading the codex entries in the game. I always have to rely to people to make lore videos to listen what they are saying, otherwise my eyes would hurt from looking at screen texts for too long. 

[Almostfaceman]

That's what I like about Dragon Age... so many things to discover and to share with the fans... 

Sadly, I got a terrible sight so I can't spend hours and hours reading the codex entries in the game. I always have to rely to people to make lore videos to listen what they are saying, otherwise my eyes would hurt from looking at screen texts for too long. 

 

That sucks, sorry. I only recently had to get reading glasses, so I sorta kinda a little bit can relate. 

[Ieldra]

Politely.....

 

Note how much things are going on in the frost back mountain. A few thing happening there, sure you have a point to say these are by chance.

 

Correlation does not imply causation in that case. It just coincidence.

 

But there is way....way too much things going on in the frost back to happen by chance. Too much to say it's a coincidence. 

 

It's a theory, there is nothing that's going to show bonafide proof yet. It there was it would not be a theory but fact.

 

So what extraordinary evidence is need to even show this theory has ground out side what's there? Any more evidence would just make theory into fact.

 

I already listed everything going on in the frost back...how is none of the extraordinary evidence?

The primary problem is that lyrium is the setting's Applied Phlebotinum. It's used whenever an otherwise not quite plausible plot effect is needed. Leliana is a good example. She needed to come back from the dead in a way that fits the setting at least somewhat in order to keep the world consistent, and in order to do that it's always best to use something that already exists - thus, lyrium. I'm not even sure the idea of a "lyrium ghost" even existed before it was applied to Leliana.

 

So if lyrium plays a role in many different events, that, as such, is not indicative of anything. That lyrium is revealed to be titan's blood - besides, what that even means is all but clear for such an entity - makes it possible to connect all those events in-world, but because lyrium is a general-purpose plot fuel, you'd need to show at least one connection to the titans which would be otherwise implausible in order to make more of it. We do not have that. Of the supposed agents only Valta has a connection to the titans, and that's explained perfectly by the events of The Descent. Everyone else acts exactly as if there was no influence from titans, so in the absence of independent evidence for more it's most plausible to assume that there is no such influence.  

 

Regarding Mythal: she is a being with big plans, so that she plays a role in otherwise unconnected events may be indicative of *her* plans, but not anything beyond that.

 

And lastly, if the titans have a will as we understand it, if they have plans, then we don't know anything about it, so we can't even check if someone acts according to *their* will instead of their own. It's simply belng assumed, and the only reason it is assumed is the hypothesis we're checking. It's circular logic.

 

It is, of course, possible that the writers will make such connections in future, but I am firmly convinced there is no such plan at this time. I'll never be able to prove it, but should such a plan be revealed in future, it bears the hallmark of convenience rather than forethought. Never attribute to genius that which is sufficiently explained by accident. ME's IT should've taught you that.