93 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

The primary problem is that lyrium is the setting's Applied Phlebotinum. It's used whenever an otherwise not quite plausible plot effect is needed. Leliana is a good example. She needed to come back from the dead in a way that fits the setting at least somewhat in order to keep the world consistent, and in order to do that it's always best to use something that already exists - thus, lyrium. I'm not even sure the idea of a "lyrium ghost" even existed before it was applied to Leliana.

 

So if lyrium plays a role in many different events, that, as such, is not indicative of anything. That lyrium is revealed to be titan's blood - besides, what that even means is all but clear for such an entity - makes it possible to connect all those events in-world, but because lyrium is a general-purpose plot fuel, you'd need to show at least one connection to the titans which would be otherwise implausible in order to make more of it. We do not have that. Of the supposed agents only Valta has a connection to the titans, and that's explained perfectly by the events of The Descent. Everyone else acts exactly as if there was no influence from titans, so in the absence of independent evidence for more it's most plausible to assume that there is no such influence.  

 

Regarding Mythal: she is a being with big plans, so that she plays a role in otherwise unconnected events may be indicative of *her* plans, but not anything beyond that.

 

And lastly, if the titans have a will as we understand it, if they have plans, then we don't know anything about it, so we can't even check if someone acts according to *their* will instead of their own. It's simply belng assumed, and the only reason it is assumed is the hypothesis we're checking. It's circular logic.

 

It is, of course, possible that the writers will make such connections in future, but I am firmly convinced there is no such plan at this time. I'll never be able to prove it, but should such a plan be revealed in future, it bears the hallmark of convenience rather than forethought. Never attribute to genius that which is sufficiently explained by accident. ME's IT should've taught you that.

1. Everything is use as plot fuel.

 

2.Also, it's the fade that's used as Applied Phlebotinum not Lyrium. Everything in da comes down to a connection to the fade. Even Lyruim is connected to the fade. And the implosible thing is the lyruim's location itself. Lyruim is normally deep with in the earth. Not very close to the surface at all. Yet, a massive veil of it is in the cave very close to the surface in a mountain and said cave is a temple of sacred ash and Mythal...

 

3. You can't discount Mythal's involvement in any way. It's basic the writer stating, "Hey, look here, it's a peice of the bigger puzzle." Mythal's story is basically the story of thedas and the way the writer connect all the pieces together. You need to note that all Mythal's actions are a huge set of Domino's which when one falls it triggers the fall of a set of other. If Mythal is involved it a big deal no matter what.

 

4.That's an issue of just seeing just the tree in the forest. Of couse we can tell if a being is fallowing the will of the titan. We can only see so much. Hence this being a theory. We can only see peices and try to see the whole base on that. Once more info comes out and we look back to past event we can look in past event we can see it was alway coming, like the mage templer war. 

 

And of course the writer have plans, the issue is how it going to be shown. they know where they are going with the story just no the details of it.

[Mr.House]

Proof? Don't make me laugh. Overblown interpretations of vague hints, localized phenomena being given a meaning beyond their domain, mental influence implied by material connection, assumption of intelligent planning with no evidence at all. All this "proves" is how easy it is to make people believe things they want to believe for unrelated reasons based on spurious evidence. You may also notice that this hypothesis is in parts structurally non-falsifable, by making the claim that agents act unconsciously as agents. Assuming invisible mind-controlling entites makes *anything* possible, and any hypothesis that has to assume them is highly suspicious to start with. 

You do know the theory that Flemeth was Mythal spawned from something as simple as her grimoir having Mythals symbol on it, yes? The theory that Mythal was Flemeth WAS based on vague hints at first, which starts to hold weight as the series went on with Mythals shrine being the place that Flemeth had to be resurrected and how her and Merrill talk to eachother being the last piece in the puzzle.

 

Even the existence of the Titan was forshadowed by vague hints, same with the truth of the elven gods. Vague hints foretelling future content and reveals is the norm in DA.

[Ieldra]

You do know the theory that Flemeth was Mythal spawned from something as simple as her grimoir having Mythals symbol on it, yes? The theory that Mythal was Flemeth WAS based on vague hints at first, which starts to hold weight as the series went on with Mythals shrine being the place that Flemeth had to be resurrected and how her and Merrill talk to eachother being the last piece in the puzzle.

 

Even the existence of the Titan was forshadowed by vague hints, same with the truth of the elven gods. Vague hints foretelling future content and reveals is the norm in DA.

Sure (though I didn't pick up on the titan - what was the foreshadowing?) However, even the first vague hint about Flemeth provided a solid connection between two very specific things, namely her and Mythal. It was unusual, and thus significant, since she wasn't an elf, and the likelihood that her symbol appeared on her book by accident was low. Things did not appear around her as if she had no connection to Mythal. It only remained to be seen which kind of connection this was.

 

No such connection exists between the titan and anyone but Valta. You could maybe extend it to the dwarves because the hypothesis that the Stone and the titans are closely connected appears plausible, but no further. There are no unusual and thus significant events around any of the proposed "agents" that are not already sufficiently explained. Also, all of the proposed connections are highly unspecific and thus less significant. They only appear meaningful if you presuppose what you're trying to prove.

 

You see, I'm not saying the hypothesis is false exactly. I'm saying the observations are not sufficient to raise its probability significantly over the hypothesis that the observations are unconnected beyond the surface similarities.

[Mr.House]

Sure (though I didn't pick up on the titan - what was the foreshadowing?) However, even the first vague hint about Flemeth provided a solid connection between two very specific things, namely her and Mythal. It was unusual, and thus significant, since she wasn't an elf, and the likelihood that her symbol appeared on her book by accident was low. Things did not appear around her as if she had no connection to Mythal. It only remained to be seen which kind of connection this was.

 

No such connection exists between the titan and anyone but Valta. You could maybe extend it to the dwarves because the hypothesis that the Stone and the titans are closely connected appears plausible, but no further. There are no unusual and thus significant events around any of the proposed "agents" that are not already sufficiently explained. Also, all of the proposed connections are highly unspecific and thus less significant. They only appear meaningful if you presuppose what you're trying to prove.

 

You see, I'm not saying the hypothesis is false exactly. I'm saying the observations are not sufficient to raise its probability significantly over the hypothesis that the observations are unconnected beyond the surface similarities.

Oh I don't think Mythal is a agent. There are some good arugments for Sandal and dead Leli was for sure an agent of the titans in someway. Hell I believe red lyruims song is the the elvewn gods, where the blue lyruim is the titans. This is supported from Cole and how he explains the difference in their songs and with what we know about them from Solas, that whisper fits them more. Ashe however is not poking at random stuff, she is taking vague stuff and making at theory that the fanbase has always done and alot of fan theories that are created like this normally turn our right.

[Ieldra]

...and alot of fan theories that are created like this normally turn our right.

Yeah, but did they turn out right because it was planned that way from the start, or because the writers picked up the theory and chose to make it true retroactively?

 

Bioware's stories usually have a lot of problems. Just to select two that happen to be mentioned on the first forum page right now: (1) The Inquisitor's one-liner when they kill Corypheus, if they really followed up on it, amounts to an unbelievable level of stupidity since it appears the Inquisitor will now give Corypheus exactly what he wanted. (2) The idea that one person can hold off a mountain-sized demon while their companions get to safety is absurd.

 

For reasons like that, I hesitate to attribute much forethought to the writers. I'd rather think most of the time, things go like this:  some artist looks for something to put on Flemeth's grimoire and randomly picks one of the existing resources which is irrelevant to the story at the time. It happens to be Mythal's symbol. Fans go "Isn't she also very long-lived? Hey, maybe Flemeth is Mythal", writers go "Hey, that's a cool idea, let's see if we can do something with it". Cue DA2 ...and suddenly things look like there has been mounting evidence for that hypothesis, starting with DAO.

 

So, did I and some others really foresee the sundering of the Veil becoming a plot element in our DAI predictions, or did we just poke the lore and the writers responded? Do I attribute too much importance to fan ideas when I suggest the latter? There is no way to know, but for instance, the idea that Flemeth is Mythal seemed far-fetched but not implausible at the time of DAO, so I'm more willing to attribute forethought to the observations here.

 

Not so with this titan hypothesis. Not unless we have something better to show than "lyrium is everywhere so the titan's will is everywhere. Go with it." I haven't the slightest idea what the writers will do with the titans in future chapters of the story. They seem too big to just sideline, but I also don't see a way to make an engaging story that features them as an active "faction", so to speak. They're too alien, to start with. Or, ironically, they may be too big to do anything with them but sideline them...

[Xcorpyo]

1. the temple of Sacred arhes....Not the temple in the dales. I'm taking about the shrine they first thought was Andraste's but turned out to be Mythal's.

2. Orghran makes it a the magic power in the temple is connect to the lyrium and Lillianna if killed becaome a Lyrium ghost. Added all the templer powers come from lyruim which is 100% from Titan.

 

3. Not really. The mountain is filled with Lyuim...which has already prover to power the magic in the area. Added that all lyruim comes from Titan.

 

Sorry but the proof is there.  The temple of Sacred ashes is an elven temple of mythal and its filled with Lyuim and it's power. Added to the fact the Avvar worship this very mountain as well, the avver the was brought here by the sapposive Lady of the sky who in the Ballard of bright axe is described to act just like Flemeth, who is Mythal.

 

 

There is more proof to your last statement. When you play the JoH DLC, you witness a race of sorts between two climbers. If you inquire about it, you discover that it was in honor of one of their old legends about their chief deity, Korth the Mountain Father.

Sorry, it was the codex entry for the Belenas constellation.

 

Codex text

According to Avvar legend, Korth the Mountain-Father kept his throne at the peak of the mountain Belenas, which lay at the center of the world and was so lofty that from it, he could see all the corners of the earth and sky.

Over time, bold young Avvar would challenge each other to scale the mountain of the gods. At first, Korth found this amusing, and he delighted in the valor of their failed attempts to enter his hold. Then Sindri Sky-Breaker, boldest of the heroes of old, succeeded in climbing to the summit and stood in the Hall of the Mountain-Father in the flesh. Korth, being a good sport, gave Sindri a hero's welcome, and the mortal returned to the Frostbacks with tales of gods and gifts from Korth, and soon more and more heroes were barging into the hall of the Mountain-Father demanded to be showered with honors. Korth grew weary of throwing banquets, and the other gods began to fear his temper.

So Korth spoke to the Lady of the Skies and lifted Belenas from the earth into her realm, which could not be reached even by the most intrepid climber, and there he dwells in peace.

—From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius

 

So do we know of a ‘sky’ kingdom no intrepid climber can ever reach, at least not awake? Yup, it’s the Fade.

And do we have a huge ass city there? As it happens, we do.

 

And since we know only spirits can reside in the Fade, how did they moved the city there? Unless the city in in fact the soul/spirit of a Titan. You know, one of the ‘pillars of the Earth’ Mythal and the Creators wanted to kill, as per the murals in her temple.

 

And the Titans have awoken only twice from their slumber. One time in the Descent DLC, when the Veil was torn open by Corypheus, thus allowing the Titans to feel the soul of one their brethren calling to them.

And once more roughly 1000 years ago.

And what happened roughly 1300-1400 years ago? The Veil was torn open when Cory and co opened a portal and entered the Fade/Black City in the flesh.

Hmmm, it seems that Cory managed to wake up the Titans twice by now. Coincidence or is batting for the other team, even if he doesn’t know it yet?!?

 

So when the Veil will be down, you can bet your ass the dwarven will start hearing the Call of the Stone again, in stereo this time.

[SwobyJ]

Does this prove I.... TT?

[Ieldra]

So do we know of a ‘sky’ kingdom no intrepid climber can ever reach, at least not awake? Yup, it’s the Fade.
And do we have a huge ass city there? As it happens, we do.
 
And since we know only spirits can reside in the Fade, how did they moved the city there? Unless the city in in fact the soul/spirit of a Titan. You know, one of the ‘pillars of the Earth’ Mythal and the Creators wanted to kill, as per the murals in her temple.

I'll use this example to point out the flaws in the typical "reasoning" that goes into conspiracy theories:

(1) This is a legend, not a historical account. We can assume there is some truth underlying it, in that the main characters and places involved probably existed in some form, but we should allow for considerable embellishment.

(2) Cities don't just magically vanish into the Fade. Why? Well because they don't. There is no known mage who has ever had such power. It's not just not a common occurrence, there is literally no precedence in historical documents at all. However, there are quite a number of rather more plausible ways to explain the observation - which was, most likely, that at some time a settlement existed at a certain place and some time later it didn't. So, with things being as they are, the fact that Korth's "city" (most likely a small town, if that) vanished, could be easily explained by its inhabitants having moved away, or a natural disaster, or something similar. Then, in the way of legends, since the Avvar didn't know the reason why the place had vanished, they interpreted it in a way that was meaningful to them. Thus the version of the Lady taking the city into the sky came to exist.

(3) If you're going to answer "Yes, but in a world where spirits and the Fade exists other explanations are possible", that's correct. However, the critical term is "possible". If an explanation that requires large-scale magic isn't actually more plausible than a mundane one, I would consider the mundane ones first and only move to magical ones if the mundane ones are disproven. Since there is no precedence for magically moving cities in any reliable historical account, I would assume that such events are highly implausible, and I would require a very high degree of evidence to set a precedence.

(4) That the Black City exists in the Fade does not connect it to any place outside the Fade. The statement "We know a city exists in the Fade" proves nothing at all. It's not even evidence. It's just an isolated fact, one that acquires meaning in the context of your hypothesis only by presupposing what you're trying to prove. If we visited the Black City and found some Avvar artifacts there, that would be evidence, though still no proof in the loose sense of "enough to count the hypothesis preliminarily true".

(5) The titans are also an isolated fact in the context of your statements. They are wilfully invoked to increase the plausibility of a magical explanation (see (3)), but no such explanation is needed. The history of the events in that story works just as well - even better - without the titans, and for that reason it's more plausible to assume they didn't play a role in it. As always, of course, unless new facts change the picture.

As a contrast, consider the popular hypothesis that Tyrdda's lover was Flemeth/Mythal: according to the ballad, this lover was an elven spirit with the power to kill a dragon and reknowned for her wisdom that she imparted to her lover. Mythal is an unrelated element in the story, but the similarities are such that connecting her isn't all that implausible.

[Teddie Sage]

Does this prove I.... TT?

Not sure what you're talking about.

[Ieldra]

Not sure what you're talking about.

Really? You're an active forum member, you've played the ME games and didn't come into contact with IT?

[leaguer of one]

 

 

Not so with this titan hypothesis. Not unless we have something better to show than "lyrium is everywhere so the titan's will is everywhere. Go with it." I haven't the slightest idea what the writers will do with the titans in future chapters of the story. They seem too big to just sideline, but I also don't see a way to make an engaging story that features them as an active "faction", so to speak. They're too alien, to start with. Or, ironically, they may be too big to do anything with them but sideline them...

It's not "lyrium is everywhere so titan's will is everywhere".

 

It a veil of Lyrium in a place where lyrium is not normally at where all these crazy magical stuff seem to happen.

[Xcorpyo]

I'll use this example to point out the flaws in the typical "reasoning" that goes into conspiracy theories:
......

 

 

Yes, legends are sometimes based on true facts that are seen differently by different people at different points in time/history.

But you missed my point. I took the legend of Korth as it face value, but tried to see a true event/or something that might be possible, that might have been the root of this legend.

In the The Descent DLC we find out that Titans are real. Now the spirits we see in the Fade are mostly humanoid, and demons probably changed their form over time, evolved or devolved or whatever.

 

Anyway, if a human’s spirit manifestation in the Fade is a close representation of his humanoid form, then a Titan’s spirit’s manifestation in the Fade would resemble that of a translucent city of sorts, because the Titan that is feeling his soul(the Black City) through the Fade rift has an entire Thaig inside him. So in the Fade we will see a huge ass boulder with buildings in it.

 

We know that the Avvars communicate with the spirits, and their mages can visit the Fade all the time. They saw the big ‘city’, had no idea what it was, so they made up a story about it.

 

I think that all the above ground pantheons are interconnected. And they all stem from the same pantheon, the elvhen one.

 

We know from Solas that the Creators weren’t even true gods, but become known as such over a great length of time. And yet al elvhen know for a fact that their gods are real, and the Sun kissed the Earth to form Elgar’nan, and Mythal was born from the see, blab la bla. So every codex entry and fact we knew about them so far was made up.

 

Now the humans enter the picture. They don’t know much about the Fade, and they have to guess much of what was before them.

From all the humans, the tevinter people are the luckiest, since they get to see most of the construction of the elves, especially the temples containing the bodies of the sleeping 7 gods imprisoned by Fen’harel in the Fade.

In time, they were revered as gods by the Tevinter Imperium for the help and information they give to the dreamers. They get different names, etc.

 

The savage tribes of the allamari, chasind, avvar have no such luck. By the time they enter the picture, much of the elven culture is gone, same for the language, much of the cities are no more than ruins, and the real guesswork begins.

 

Maybe one avvar was wondering the forest one day and stumbled upon a elven ruin with the intact statue of a guy holding a sword. He tells his tribesmen about it, they wonder what it could mean, they make up some stories about who this mighty warrior might have been, and bam, Hakkon the god of war is born. This example is purely fictional and it’s only here as a way of how things might have worked.

 

Now we get to the youngest of Thedas’ religions, The Chantry and the Chant of Light/the Maker. Until Andraste, all major religions were polytheistic in nature. In fact, she is the one to name the Big Guy as the Maker. I even imagine the conversation she had with Maferath:

Andraste: Sorry for spacing out for a while. Just had a telepathic chat with the Maker.

Maferath: Who?(think of that guy’s face in the beginning of Guardians of the Galaxy)

A: You know, the guy that created everything..

M: Ohhh, that guy. But we believe in many gods and hold wolves sacred.

A: Really? That is so last century. Vive la revolucion! From today we have only one god.

M: That is so silly. Dream on.

A:  -drops all her clothes- Pretty please with sugar on top.

M: Wll, hmmm, yes, so many gods to remember, so many to appease. Always got a B- in religion class. One god it is. Now let’s do the naughty.

A:Oh, I should also add that I’m having sex with him and I’m his wife.

M: You are cheating on me with the voices inside your head? The travesty! Maybe we should reconsider on this world changing decision. What makes you sure he even wants to help us if we chose to follow him?

A: I told you already, he will help us because I’m his Bride.

M: You convinced a GOD to help us because you had sex with him?!?

A: Of course. He is a male after all, and we know all males think with their little head. Furthermore, he was all alone since creation, like one million years ago. Poor deprived virgin god.  And lastly, I am that good.

 

The Chantry was established one century after her death, The Chant of Light was created by other people  from what they could remember of her sayings, and what they made up themselves for the facts of their current world to match their made up story.

So we can say that the entire chant is only legend, or hearsay, or unreliable narathor.

I won't expand on the fact she might have been possesed by a mage hating Fade spirit, the soul of Dumat, Mythal, Fen'harel, just plain crazy. Been there, done that.

 

 

And let’s use a legend that seemed so silly at first we didn’t even bothered to look into it that much. All dwarves are afraid that if they go to the surface, they’ll fall into the sky. Crazy, right?

But in the Descent DLC, we find the legend that started this silly fright. King died, two brothers trying to inherit. One makes allies, the other one digs so deep into the deeps that he finds the sky.

He wants to bring the sky to his people so he digs under his thaig to get the sky inside. He weakens the understructure of the entire thaig, and it all falls into the sky, never to be seen again.

Silly, right? There is no such ting as a sky underground, and gravity can’t pull you up into the sky. Well, it was silly until you saw the inside of the Titan. Trees, birds, ambient light, clouds. For a guy that never saw the topside, that view could have been easily mistaken for the outside world and the real sky.

And guess what, if someone digs in from above, he could easily fall inside the ‘sky’, thaig and all.

 

So the silly legend was most likely correct, since every dwarf I’ve met since the first game was afride of falling into the sky. They forgot how the legend started, but they kept one part of it alive. And they are right. If they find a ‘sky’ under the ground, they better hold tight on something.

 

So legends can be silly until they are not. In my earlier post I wasn’t stating that I believe that some random lady moved an entire mountain and the city in it in the sky. No, I was trying to imply that the mountain was the Titan and the thing we see in the Fade is his trapped Spirit/essence/soul. And every time the Veil is pieced in a major way, the Titan begins to stir, when he feels the connection with his spirit returning.

 

Now that the avvars think that said ‘city’ is housing Korth the Mountain Father and the Chantry believe that the city is the seat of the Maker is an entirely different thing. Silly superstitions. People are making up stories and trying to understand things that are far beyond their understanding, because they don’t know all the facts. 

[Ieldra]

Anyway, if a human’s spirit manifestation in the Fade is a close representation of his humanoid form, then a Titan’s spirit’s manifestation in the Fade would resemble that of a translucent city of sorts, because the Titan that is feeling his soul(the Black City) through the Fade rift has an entire Thaig inside him. So in the Fade we will see a huge ass boulder with buildings in it.

That is a *huge* stretch. And somewhat contradictory, if you assume that mountains are a part of a titan's body. In any case, certainly nothing I'd accept as evidence that a titan may be involved in something.
 

Andraste: Sorry for spacing out for a while. Just had a telepathic chat with the Maker.
Maferath: Who?(think of that guy’s face in the beginning of Guardians of the Galaxy)
A: You know, the guy that created everything..
M: Ohhh, that guy. But we believe in many gods and hold wolves sacred.
A: Really? That is so last century. Vive la revolucion! From today we have only one god.
M: That is so silly. Dream on.
A:  -drops all her clothes- Pretty please with sugar on top.
M: Wll, hmmm, yes, so many gods to remember, so many to appease. Always got a B- in religion class. One god it is. Now let’s do the naughty.
A:Oh, I should also add that I’m having sex with him and I’m his wife.
M: You are cheating on me with the voices inside your head? The travesty! Maybe we should reconsider on this world changing decision. What makes you sure he even wants to help us if we chose to follow him?
A: I told you already, he will help us because I’m his Bride.
M: You convinced a GOD to help us because you had sex with him?!?
A: Of course. He is a male after all, and we know all males think with their little head. Furthermore, he was all alone since creation, like one million years ago. Poor deprived virgin god.  And lastly, I am that good.

I like this.
 

In my earlier post I wasn’t stating that I believe that some random lady moved an entire mountain and the city in it in the sky. No, I was trying to imply that the mountain was the Titan and the thing we see in the Fade is his trapped Spirit/essence/soul. And every time the Veil is pieced in a major way, the Titan begins to stir, when he feels the connection with his spirit returning.

Apart from what exactly that spirit is (a city as its image? Nah), this isn't all that implausible, if we assume that titans were affected by the establishment of the Veil just like other intelligent life forms were. It does not connect with Ashe's hypothesis though. I'd expect something like an earthquake, like in Descent. Earlier you said that it's possible the dwarves will connect more closely to the Stone once the Veil is sundered. That, too, is somewhat plausible but it also doesn't connect with Ashe's hypothesis.

[Xcorpyo]

That, too, is somewhat plausible but it also doesn't connect with Ashe's hypothesis.

 

What was her hypothesis again?

Joking.

Got lost on the road of life. Back on topic.

 

All the Titan gods bla bla bla was to make it clear that I believe the Titan has two ways of influencing his agents, just like the souls of the Old Gods control the darkspawn.

The people that have the stone sense feel his call emanating from his physical body, and the other agents through his connection to the Fade via his soul.

 

So, the blight was contacted in the Fade, and that part of the OG' soul was resonating to the rest of their soul found in their hidden temples. The part of the soul found in their physical bodies was resonating with the part of their soul that touched the first darkspawn. They can call this a song, calling, etc.

 

The Titan is using his song by the same principles,since is practically the same thing, the only difference is that the contact was made through the lyrium, not the Fade.

Once they were exposed to such a high dose of concentrated lyrium, they could hear the song/stone sense better.

 

But Valta and Sandal have a dwarf ancestry, so their connection to the stone is stronger to begin with. So they are more in touch with the physical aspect of the Titan, being born out of Stone and all. I think Dagna as well had an extrasensory experience, but in her case it was only temporary(or was it?).

 

Leliana on the other hand has no connection to the Stone, and therefore no stone sense. But as all humans do, she has a connection to the Fade, and the Titan can get his message through from his ‘soul’ in the Fade.

Same for Mythal/Flemeth.

Anyway, a connection to the Titan is more than likely for all involved, and we might even have some other agents we don’t know yet.

 

For example, the 7 Magister that pierced the Fade used a lot of lyrium to do so. Maybe Cory was exposed to it somehow. After all, he has information he shouldn’t have as per Solas’ statement about his immortality, and his failed attempt at entering the not so GoldenCity did manage to give the Titan a big jolt and a short wake up call.

 

[Cobra's_back]

Could this be Ashe hoping Solas is not the bad guy?

[Ieldra]

Could this be Ashe hoping Solas is not the bad guy?

*chuckles*

You mean, as in "It is our task to free Solas from the evil influence of the titans and restore his original loving personality"? Ah well, I think I have too much respect for Ashe and her interest in DA lore to consider that a serious possibility at this time, even though I disagree with her. Also, it would be incredibly cheap and diminish Solas as a character greatly. I have an Inquisitor who romanced Solas, and I would not want him to be dimished that way. Granted, I'm probably rather unusual in my romance preferences. In romance stories, I value certain character traits even if they cost me a happy end. I liked Morrigan's pre-Witch Hunt ending very much, for instance, though I also like the happier ending we ultimately got.

I'm sure there is a faction of Solas romancers who'd like a sickly-sweet setup like this, but I don't see Ashe being a part of it.

[leaguer of one]

Apart from what exactly that spirit is (a city as its image? Nah), this isn't all that implausible, if we assume that titans were affected by the establishment of the Veil just like other intelligent life forms were. It does not connect with Ashe's hypothesis though. I'd expect something like an earthquake, like in Descent. Earlier you said that it's possible the dwarves will connect more closely to the Stone once the Veil is sundered. That, too, is somewhat plausible but it also doesn't connect with Ashe's hypothesis.

Actually, we already know the veil did effect the titans. Why? Because over and over again we are told the lyrium in connected to the fade. Dagna tells this to us. Justice tell this to use. And now was also know all lyrium is made from titans. Even then one must ask what is the source of the titans power if it not lyrium. The laws of entropy make it impossible for power to sustain itself. Energy is always lost in the use and change of energy. Note these being like elves were around during the time there was no veil. The most likely case is like elves of old, titan gain their power from the fade. It would still be like that now but it's vastly reduced due to the veil.

[leaguer of one]

Could this be Ashe hoping Solas is not the bad guy?

Nothing in the theory say Solas is being controlled.

[Cobra's_back]

Nothing in the theory say Solas is being controlled.

She is pointing the finger at the Titans being the bad guy. Do you think DA4 will have two bad guys? Didn't Ashe make the comment that being controlled by elves could be better than Titans? The ancient elves had a cast system with slaves. So far all we know is the Titans call the dwarves their children. So why would the Titans be the bad guys? 

[Cobra's_back]

Actually, we already know the veil did effect the titans. Why? Because over and over again we are told the lyrium in connected to the fade. Dagna tells this to us. Justice tell this to use. And now was also know all lyrium is made from titans. Even then one must ask what is the source of the titans power if it not lyrium. The laws of entropy make it impossible for power to sustain itself. Energy is always lost in the use and change of energy. Note these being like elves were around during the time there was no veil. The most likely case is like elves of old, titan gain their power from the fade. It would still be like that now but it's vastly reduced due to the veil.

"The titans are likely the Stone's first children, if not what the original progenitor for the concept of the Stone itself. They sculpted the world, and the earthquakes may be their method of reshaping Thedas. The titans consider dwarves their "children". Lyrium is the blood of the titans, and through it they emanate a song that is different from the call of the Old Gods."

 

"Following the guardian's defeat, Valta regains consciousness but is pained by a loud song until she releases a wave of telekinetic force. Valta reveals that the raw lyrium's energy blast established a connection between her and the titan. She reveals the titan was disturbed by The Breach but seems to have calmed now that it has established a connection with one of its "children". Valta has come to believe that everything that has transpired went according to the titan's plan. Though she admits that she is now different, she assures the Inquisitor that she is still a Shaper and wishes to stay in the verdant cavern to commune with the titan. She hopes in time, its song will reveal more knowledge about the dwarves and their mysterious history."

 

I don't see where this establishes the Titans as the bad guys. The guardian attacked because we were a foreign object in its body. 

[Cobra's_back]

*chuckles*

You mean, as in "It is our task to free Solas from the evil influence of the titans and restore his original loving personality"? Ah well, I think I have too much respect for Ashe and her interest in DA lore to consider that a serious possibility at this time, even though I disagree with her. Also, it would be incredibly cheap and diminish Solas as a character greatly. I have an Inquisitor who romanced Solas, and I would not want him to be dimished that way. Granted, I'm probably rather unusual in my romance preferences. In romance stories, I value certain character traits even if they cost me a happy end. I liked Morrigan's pre-Witch Hunt ending very much, for instance, though I also like the happier ending we ultimately got.

I'm sure there is a faction of Solas romancers who'd like a sickly-sweet setup like this, but I don't see Ashe being a part of it.

She is claiming the Titans are the big baddy. That would as you say diminish Solas and kill the story. I agree that  Solas needs to be the person to stop in DA4. It would help the Solas figure if the next hero needed the Titans to stop Solas.

[kann.nix9mm]

Do I get this right. Someone creates a theory and tries to proof it with assumptions and more theories?

[leaguer of one]

She is pointing the finger at the Titans being the bad guy. Do you think DA4 will have two bad guys? Didn't Ashe make the comment that being controlled by elves could be better than Titans? The ancient elves had a cast system with slaves. So far all we know is the Titans call the dwarves their children. So why would the Titans be the bad guys? 

1. Dwarves of old where mindless slaves to the titans. If you considered the qwarve as their children then it would be like an ant worker to an ant queen.

 

2.The issue is more them waking again then them being evil. Imagine what going to happen to the world when titans start roaming around again. That just the ants meeting the boot.

[leaguer of one]

"The titans are likely the Stone's first children, if not what the original progenitor for the concept of the Stone itself. They sculpted the world, and the earthquakes may be their method of reshaping Thedas. The titans consider dwarves their "children". Lyrium is the blood of the titans, and through it they emanate a song that is different from the call of the Old Gods."

 

"Following the guardian's defeat, Valta regains consciousness but is pained by a loud song until she releases a wave of telekinetic force. Valta reveals that the raw lyrium's energy blast established a connection between her and the titan. She reveals the titan was disturbed by The Breach but seems to have calmed now that it has established a connection with one of its "children". Valta has come to believe that everything that has transpired went according to the titan's plan. Though she admits that she is now different, she assures the Inquisitor that she is still a Shaper and wishes to stay in the verdant cavern to commune with the titan. She hopes in time, its song will reveal more knowledge about the dwarves and their mysterious history."

 

I don't see where this establishes the Titans as the bad guys. The guardian attacked because we were a foreign object in its body. 

It's not more say them being evil. The issue is when they wake they cause destruction to create and mold the world. If the titans start roaming all modern civilization would be destroyed in their wake. The world would be remade, life will go on, but all the people and civilizations of thedas as it is now would be crushed.

[kann.nix9mm]

1. Dwarves of old where mindless slaves to the titans. If you considered the qwarve as their children then it would be like an ant worker to an ant queen.

 

 

Do you have any proof for that? Aside from assumptions that is?

 

It's not more say them being evil. The issue is when they wake they cause destruction to create and mold the world. If the titans start roaming all modern civilization would be destroyed in their wake. The world would be remade, life will go on, but all the people and civilizations of thedas as it is now would be crushed.

 

Again, pure speculation at this point. We don't know enough about Titans to make an educated guess one way or another.