93 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

1. Dwarves of old where mindless slaves to the titans. If you considered the qwarve as their children then it would be like an ant worker to an ant queen.

 

2.The issue is more them waking again then them being evil. Imagine what going to happen to the world when titans start roaming around again. That just the ants meeting the boot.

 

The elves thought the dwarves were mindless , but since they were about to go underground and attack the Titans well...

I don't think dwarves were mindless or soulless per se , just they were part of a whole and if you believe Valta , it's a happy feeling.

If dwarves were all born like this , linked to a Titan sharing its thoughts etc...and they were happy like that , it isn't evil.

It may just have been part of the natural world .

 

There's no proof Titans are dangerous , the only thing the awaked Titan did in Descent is causing earthquakes , fits with shaping the Stone within or without.

We meet an awaked non corrupted Titan , and it only tried to bond with Valta , a dwarf who still had her Stone sense.

It ignored the Shar Brytol , the Shar brytol drank lyrium from him because they can't connect for whatever unknown reason.

So this theory that Titans can or want to mindcontrol everyone...

I mean if they truly wanted to do that , they would want the Blighted lyrium to spread and not cure it.

You can mindcontrol people through the Blight.

The Archdemons singing to darkspawn and ghouls.

The red lyrium forcing people to worship it and then people feel a compulsion to make other people eat the damn thing.

Corypheus able to have an effect on wardens...

 

So truly if the Titans are some evil mastermind wanted to conquer the world , they wouldn't want to be cured.

 

Besides Titans aren't the only one "singing" ...spirits hear singing when a mage cast a spell , darkspawn hear the song of archdemons , it just seems like everything magical enough sing , and depending on who/what you are you can hear it or not.

 

There wouldn't be any civilization right now if Titans could mindcontrol on a huge scale and everyone could hear their song...why the elves were fine planning to slay them , while the dwarves were "witless and soulless."

How did the elves managed to get closed to a Titan if even Mythal one of the most powerful Evanuris couldn't resist.

And Solas was with her underground , there are statues of Fen Harel and Mythal ...so truly would his first goal would be tearing the veil and take care of the Evanuris?

[Teddie Sage]

Could this be Ashe hoping Solas is not the bad guy?

No, I think she's saying that he's not the only bad guy.

[jedidotflow]

Mythal an agent of the Titans? But wasn't Mythal one of the original Titan-killers? I don't see it happening.

[leaguer of one]

The elves thought the dwarves were mindless , but since they were about to go underground and attack the Titans well...

I don't think dwarves were mindless or soulless per se , just they were part of a whole and if you believe Valta , it's a happy feeling.

If dwarves were all born like this , linked to a Titan sharing its thoughts etc...and they were happy like that , it isn't evil.

It may just have been part of the natural world .

 

There's no proof Titans are dangerous , the only thing the awaked Titan did in Descent is causing earthquakes , fits with shaping the Stone within or without.

We meet an awaked non corrupted Titan , and it only tried to bond with Valta , a dwarf who still had her Stone sense.

It ignored the Shar Brytol , the Shar brytol drank lyrium from him because they can't connect for whatever unknown reason.

So this theory that Titans can or want to mindcontrol everyone...

I mean if they truly wanted to do that , they would want the Blighted lyrium to spread and not cure it.

You can mindcontrol people through the Blight.

The Archdemons singing to darkspawn and ghouls.

The red lyrium forcing people to worship it and then people feel a compulsion to make other people eat the damn thing.

Corypheus able to have an effect on wardens...

 

So truly if the Titans are some evil mastermind wanted to conquer the world , they wouldn't want to be cured.

 

Besides Titans aren't the only one "singing" ...spirits hear singing when a mage cast a spell , darkspawn hear the song of archdemons , it just seems like everything magical enough sing , and depending on who/what you are you can hear it or not.

 

There wouldn't be any civilization right now if Titans could mindcontrol on a huge scale and everyone could hear their song...why the elves were fine planning to slay them , while the dwarves were "witless and soulless."

How did the elves managed to get closed to a Titan if even Mythal one of the most powerful Evanuris couldn't resist.

And Solas was with her underground , there are statues of Fen Harel and Mythal ...so truly would his first goal would be tearing the veil and take care of the Evanuris?

Again...As I said before. The issue is not that they are evil. Being the bad guy does not mean your evil. The issue is there actions. It not a case the dwarve mindless based on a perspective. The literaly were just worker ant. That's does not mean the titan's are not evil, just alien to us how ants are to us.

 

The issue is that we .. as a civilization can't co- exsist. One waking up causes earthquakes for eastern fereldin. Not moving, but just moving in it's sleep. Imagine if one actually starts walking. Sorry but you can't say that it would cause destruction in a great scale.

[leaguer of one]

Mythal an agent of the Titans? But wasn't Mythal one of the original Titan-killers? I don't see it happening.

Think about it this way...How did she survive being killed by the other gods?

[Almostfaceman]

Think about it this way...How did she survive being killed by the other gods?

 

Considering she was a powerful and ancient elven mage, the answer doesn't have to be "a Titan did it". 

[Reznore57]

Again...As I said before. The issue is not that they are evil. Being the bad guy does not mean your evil. The issue is there actions. It not a case the dwarve mindless based on a perspective. The literaly were just worker ant. That's does not mean the titan's are not evil, just alien to us how ants are to us.

 

The issue is that we .. as a civilization can't co- exsist. One waking up causes earthquakes for eastern fereldin. Not moving, but just moving in it's sleep. Imagine if one actually starts walking. Sorry but you can't say that it would cause destruction in a great scale.

 

Perhaps dwarves were like worker ants but if that's how they were born and created , part of their nature ...it is not alien at all.

It seems they evolved away from Titans , and have now a will of their own and sense of self ...granted they lost some things in the bargain (magical powers , perhaps even immortality) .

It still doesn't make Titan a problem , the only Titan we saw wasn't bonding with The Shar Brytol , those dwarves staying down there , killing people , drinking lyrium , sealing their armor in lyrium...it's a choice they made.

They act the same way the humans in Haven were doing with the dragon.

Is this the fault of the dragon?

 

About co existing , we do not know .

The elves were living on the surface , yes they went through earthquakes but if Titans were so powerful , able to destroy everything on the surface ...how did the elves managed , it's not like there's one Titan .

The one Titan we met and was awaken and shaking was calmed down by meeting one dwarf.That's it.

I think it was the second time in human history he woke up ...?Ferelden is still standing.

 

Yes in theory the Titans could cause huge damage on the surface , except we do not know when or why they feel the need to shake the earth.We do not know if they are vital to Thedas.

We do not know how intelligent they are , the Titans shared emotions and memory with Valta .

They are like tectonic plates with feelings .

[OdanUrr]

The Titans are the Reapers, got it.

[leaguer of one]

Perhaps dwarves were like worker ants but if that's how they were born and created , part of their nature ...it is not alien at all.

It seems they evolved away from Titans , and have now a will of their own and sense of self ...granted they lost some things in the bargain (magical powers , perhaps even immortality) .

It still doesn't make Titan a problem , the only Titan we saw wasn't bonding with The Shar Brytol , those dwarves staying down there , killing people , drinking lyrium , sealing their armor in lyrium...it's a choice they made.

They act the same way the humans in Haven were doing with the dragon.

Is this the fault of the dragon?

 

About co existing , we do not know .

The elves were living on the surface , yes they went through earthquakes but if Titans were so powerful , able to destroy everything on the surface ...how did the elves managed , it's not like there's one Titan .

The one Titan we met and was awaken and shaking was calmed down by meeting one dwarf.That's it.

I think it was the second time in human history he woke up ...?Ferelden is still standing.

 

Yes in theory the Titans could cause huge damage on the surface , except we do not know when or why they feel the need to shake the earth.We do not know if they are vital to Thedas.

We do not know how intelligent they are , the Titans shared emotions and memory with Valta .

They are like tectonic plates with feelings .

1. When I said Alien, I meant Alien to use and elves...not to the dwarves.

 

2.I did not say that made it  a problem. I made the point to show they do have a history of controlling others. All it's to the beings ok.

 

3.That the thing, the elves did not stop the titans. In fact in trespasser it's state killing one made the problem worse. so bad they had to seal off the deep roads.

 

4.We already know it's vital the thedas. As Valta pointed out in descent, they shaped the earth with their steps. And of course we know how intelligent they are. it was clear they are in descent.

 

 

The issues is that they did walk the world of thedas and shaped it. that can't be argued. The problem is when they do it again what is going to happen to the civilizations and people of thedas.

 

Now that does not make them evil but that automatically makes them a problem.

[leaguer of one]

Considering she was a powerful and ancient elven mage, the answer doesn't have to be "a Titan did it". 

Considering she was facing gods as old as her and knew she had ways out, why on earth would they not plan intercept her escape plan? Remember, one of the gods who killed her was Elgar'nan who is even older then Mythal. Any escape plan she had he would see coming.

[Almostfaceman]

Considering she was facing gods as old as her and knew she had ways out, why on earth would they not plan intercept her escape plan? Remember, one of the gods who killed her was Elgar'nan who is even older then Mythal. Any escape plan she had he would see coming.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Power =/= omniscience. 

[leaguer of one]

Maybe, maybe not. Power =/= omniscience. 

You don't need to be omniscience to plan ahead. Added, at that time people came in to part... In the waking world and in the fade. Take out the fade part and in does not matter how strong they are.

 

Added they had the for sight to know Flemeth would have back doors.

[Darvins]

Considering she was facing gods as old as her and knew she had ways out, why on earth would they not plan intercept her escape plan? Remember, one of the gods who killed her was Elgar'nan who is even older then Mythal. Any escape plan she had he would see coming.

 

Perhaps or perhaps not, we have no knowledge that they had killed another Elvanuis before, they might not have been aware such would happen when they killed one. 

 

Personally I find it hard to believe Mythal is dancing to any ones tune but her own, Well except for in one way, I think she's playing several games of chess and the Blight is a powerful move by one foe, that if she doesn't stop can leave her in Checkmate, but if she does.... it still weakens her overall available forces somewhat. But yeah I do not buy the idea of Mythal being any ones 'Agent' but her own.

[jedidotflow]

Think about it this way...How did she survive being killed by the other gods?

 

She didn't.

[Ieldra]

Think about it this way...How did she survive being killed by the other gods?

As I said before: there is always an infinite number of explanations for any given set of facts. In order to prefer one over the other, you need to work with facts, not with possibilities. If there was an external agent that helped her to continue to exist as a spirit without dissipating, it was much more likely one who had a previous connection to her. Solas, for instance.

[Almostfaceman]

You don't need to be omniscience to plan ahead. Added, at that time people came in to part... In the waking world and in the fade. Take out the fade part and in does not matter how strong they are.

 

Added they had the for sight to know Flemeth would have back doors.

 

You have to be omniscient to plan ahead perfectly. Mistakes can be made. All it would take is Mythal knowing some spell or trick she could use to save a small remnant of herself. Heck, it could have just been sheer force of will for all that we know of the ancient elves. Again, Titans aren't even remotely the only plausible explanation. 

[Almostfaceman]

She didn't.

 

Well, yeah, she did. Hence Flemeth. It greatly weakened her, but she was still enough of herself to not lose herself. 

[kann.nix9mm]

2.I did not say that made it  a problem. I made the point to show they do have a history of controlling others. All it's to the beings ok.

 

3.That the thing, the elves did not stop the titans. In fact in trespasser it's state killing one made the problem worse. so bad they had to seal off the deep roads.

 

4.We already know it's vital the thedas. As Valta pointed out in descent, they shaped the earth with their steps. And of course we know how intelligent they are. it was clear they are in descent.

 

 

The issues is that they did walk the world of thedas and shaped it. that can't be argued. The problem is when they do it again what is going to happen to the civilizations and people of thedas.

 

Now that does not make them evil but that automatically makes them a problem.

 

@2. You come to that conclusion how? How can you say "they have a history" when we know next to nothing about them and how they work? Source?

 

@3. Maybe I have missed it but I remember it was said that Mythal killed a Titan and through that the elves took their realm, whatever that means. Where does anyone say a 'problem' got worse? Source?

 

@4. Again, we don't know how truly intelligent they are, we only see a glimps through Valta. And the only other thing we know is the Titans are an importent part of Thedas and shape the world. I don't see where it says they are vital. Source?

 

How can be something a problem when we don't even know what happened before? Yes, the Titans shape the world. So what? Shaping the world does not necessarily mean the destruction of everything else. Pure speculation with little to hold it.

[Teddie Sage]

What if Mythal created the Titans or what if the elvhen race are descents of the Titans like the Dwarves? First elves would be the ancestors of the dwarves and and the elves we now have. I think at one point, there was only one race and it was the elvhen and that was back when Fen'harel was still fighting against the Evanuris and before he sealed them in the Fade or something. I know what I'm saying is farfetched, but I think somehow, everything started from the Titans or at least the Evanuris (like Mythal) are strongly linked to them. 

[leaguer of one]

@2. You come to that conclusion how? How can you say "they have a history" when we know next to nothing about them and how they work? Source?

 

@3. Maybe I have missed it but I remember it was said that Mythal killed a Titan and through that the elves took their realm, whatever that means. Where does anyone say a 'problem' got worse? Source?

 

@4. Again, we don't know how truly intelligent they are, we only see a glimps through Valta. And the only other thing we know is the Titans are an importent part of Thedas and shape the world. I don't see where it says they are vital. Source?

 

How can be something a problem when we don't even know what happened before? Yes, the Titans shape the world. So what? Shaping the world does not necessarily mean the destruction of everything else. Pure speculation with little to hold it.

2. the elves of old and the decsent dlc.

 

3.Here's what the lore state on it in trespasser.

It's starts say parse of Mythal killing a Titan.

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

 

But then thing get worse due to killing one.....

 

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.

A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.

Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

A voice whispers:

 

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

So, yes killing one makes things worse.

 

4. Yes, we do. The fact they communicate and can reason proves that. It's not hard to see if something is intelligent. if it can communicate a reason it's intelligent.

 

 

And yes shaping the world does means destruction. Every forming of any world, real or fiction is violent. Every mountain is cause by massive earthquakes and volcanoes. Every plain from glacier rushing through it. Swamps by the many hurricane that hit it.  Every environmental change is violent by nature. Even the elves of old stated how the titan destroyed their cites.

 

Sorry but anyone with any sense of what drastic environmental change is would know titan's are a problem/

[leaguer of one]

You have to be omniscient to plan ahead perfectly. Mistakes can be made. All it would take is Mythal knowing some spell or trick she could use to save a small remnant of herself. Heck, it could have just been sheer force of will for all that we know of the ancient elves. Again, Titans aren't even remotely the only plausible explanation. 

Not really, how many plans did the pc's succeed in with out being Omniscient. So want is mytha; knows some spells and tricks......Elgar'nan would know about them.

[leaguer of one]

As I said before: there is always an infinite number of explanations for any given set of facts. In order to prefer one over the other, you need to work with facts, not with possibilities. If there was an external agent that helped her to continue to exist as a spirit without dissipating, it was much more likely one who had a previous connection to her. Solas, for instance.

I under stand this, hence theory. But i'm pointing out here the one place that is show to revive being from the dead some how is connected to Titan's.

[Cobra's_back]

No, I think she's saying that he's not the only bad guy.

That would diminish Solas a bit, and I have yet to see the Titans as the bad guys.

[leaguer of one]

Perhaps or perhaps not, we have no knowledge that they had killed another Elvanuis before, they might not have been aware such would happen when they killed one. 

 

Personally I find it hard to believe Mythal is dancing to any ones tune but her own, Well except for in one way, I think she's playing several games of chess and the Blight is a powerful move by one foe, that if she doesn't stop can leave her in Checkmate, but if she does.... it still weakens her overall available forces somewhat. But yeah I do not buy the idea of Mythal being any ones 'Agent' but her own.

We long know what her goal is....it's revenge. But as we see with the end of dai, it seem that what ever game to chess she is doing she is using herself as a pawn.

[leaguer of one]

That would diminish Solas a bit, and I have yet to see the Titans as the bad guys.

bad guy not equal evil. Bad guy as in if wakes can destroy entire civilization reshaping the world. And no, have more then one bad guy would not diminish Solas.