22 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyrus Amell]

I noticed that no matter your background, be it Dalish or Human Noble, you knew from the beginning of the game how to read and write. For those of you who don’t remember, learning to read and write is an involved process that becomes harder as you age because when you’re a kid your soft-as-putty mind seems to be able to absorb quite a lot of data. When did your character learn such involved skills?

 

For Human Nobles, your wealth and standing easily afford you a good education. A Dalish Mage is another exception, as Merril explained the need to retain elven lore and the study of new spells does require book smarts which may include reading human material. As for everyone else? Well…

 

The Dwarf starts as a thug who grew up learning how to fight and hustle on the streets of the Free Marches. The Qunari starts as a mercenary whose parents fled the Qun, so the level of education they could provide may be variable. The Dalish players who are not mages would have grown up preparing to be hunters and clan protectors, professional pursuits that do not require a comprehensive education.

 

I broach this because I believe there is a story behind explaining such plot malfeasance. So try to explain two things about your character:

1. When did you learn to read and write?

2. When did you get around to reading Varric’s Tale of the Champion? (because everyone says so)

 

For my Dalish Rogue, Serek, I proposition that his mother was a City Elf named Leada who fled to escape some trouble and asked Clan Lavellan to take her in. She was surprisingly well educated & helped the Lavellans in their dealings with humans, occasionally assisting in trades. Naturally she taught her son how to read and write, believing it would make him a more respected member of the clan. One day, Serek traded a few spare wolf pelts with a merchant in exchange for supplies and a rather battered tome of Varric Tethras' Tale of the Champion. 

[vertigomez]

Well, Adaar was (presumably?) raised by Tal-Vashoth parents who would have been educated under the Qun. Doesn't seem a stretch to think they'd know how to read and write Common, at least.

The real question is how my casteless Warden is somehow literate. Wtf. Did Rica teach him when she was getting all gentrified?

[Reznore57]

I imagine my Dalish hunter knew the basic , reading simple runes on message board , + reading a bit of old elven.

But not able to read a rapport or a book at all.

That's when I headcanon Josephine paid for a teacher , but my elf ran away.

Until Vivienne started to glare real hard and Dorian proposed to teach him.

 

So headcanon = my Dalish learn to read properly during Inquisition.

[Cyrus Amell]

I imagine my Dalish hunter knew the basic , reading simple runes on message board , + reading a bit of old elven.

But not able to read a rapport or a book at all.

That's when I headcanon Josephine paid for a teacher , but my elf ran away.

Until Vivienne started to glare real hard and Dorian proposed to teach him.

 

So headcanon = my Dalish learn to read properly during Inquisition.

 

When he meets up with Varric,the Herald can say off the bat that he read Varric's book on Hawke. Granted, you could postpone the conversation until you are established Skyhold and just say that he learned to read and write in the interim. 

 

The real question is how my casteless Warden is somehow literate. Wtf. Did Rica teach him when she was getting all gentrified?

 

That's a stumper it is. When we meet Sigrun later she explain that her friend in the Legion taught her to read, so it's not like every other duster learn their ABC whilst getting by. 

[The Night Haunter]

The magic of Thedas means everyone is born knowing how to write in their appropriate language, they only have to learn for other languages.

 

 

I don't think the issue of literacy is ever really brought up, at all, in Thedas. Which is fine with me, there are more important things to be worrying about.

[vertigomez]

The magic of Thedas means everyone is born knowing how to write in their appropriate language, they only have to learn for other languages.
 
 
I don't think the issue of literacy is ever really brought up, at all, in Thedas. Which is fine with me, there are more important things to be worrying about.

Except Fenris. He doesn't know how to read unless Hawke teaches him.

[Kierro Ren]

As first to Clan Lavellen, Varathorn, was taught to read by Keeper Deshanna. During the conversation with Josephine, about his clan, I chose the "Not much different from humans." He mentions his clan trades with human villages. So, Varathorn, would trade for books, likely books for children and get into more complex writing and stories. One in particular, "The Champion of Kirkwall." So, he was taught by Keeper Deshanna and on his own.

[Bhryaen]

I admit this is one of those arse-pulls in the writing of DA that I completely let slide. The game just revolves around texted material so heavily that there's simply no way to write in an illiterate protagonist. I mean, can you imagine how much content you'd miss if they denied Codex entries to protagonsts deemed incapable of literacy in their origin? And the dissonance that universal literacy creates doesn't extend only to the Inq. There are countless NPCs who write- and very few who write in broken English (or German or French or Chinese or whatever)- who don't seem like they would be likely to be able to otherwise. Plus where are they getting all these writing materials? They don't exactly have factories in DA for mass-produced paper and pencils and ball-point pens around. Quills and parchment were a luxury back in the day. But this just seems like a picky point to hold the DAverse to because really the better question in this regard is: what are the devs supposed to do about it?

 

In NWN they tried to write in different dialog for protagonists that had low intelligence, and it was a nice try, but ultimately it's just not reasonable in crafting a game like DA.

 

Not a particularly lore-based response to the OP, I know, but, alas, there ultimately isn't any such response that will be sufficient.

[vertigomez]

^I remember when the Intelligence stat affected dialogue! That was... kind of cool, actually. Wisdom did something similar.

[NRieh]

 

I remember when the Intelligence stat affected dialogue!

Yeah.... Good Ol' Days when one had to pass both CHAR and INT check in order to qualify for the romance....*sigh* 

 

As for the OP itself...well,  we all know that DAI had been initially crafted around human PC, and it's the human PC that is the least controversial lore-wise. Such are the costs of adding the races. Loreholes, plotholes, facepalms (like Dalish not able to understand their language and asking 'what's Mythal?' kind of questions) etc.

[caradoc2000]

Exposure to Element Zero, in Thedas it doesn't result in Biotics, it results in Literacy.

[Heimdall]

I assume my Lavellan learned as to avoid being cheated by human traders

[Sylvius the Mad]

My understanding is that literacy is common in Thedas. Which makes sense - the world is full of books. Medieval Earth didn't have that many books, and most people couldn't read.

Without a large reading population, why are there so many books in Thedas?

So literacy must be common.

Incidentally, it's only a long and involved process when you're older. Young children learn to read fairly easily, just as they quickly learn spoken languages. Much as being exposed to speech teaches them to speak, being exposed to text teaches them to read.

[Lumix19]

My understanding is that literacy is common in Thedas. Which makes sense - the world is full of books. Medieval Earth didn't have that many books, and most people couldn't read.

Without a large reading population, why are there so many books in Thedas?

So literacy must be common.

Incidentally, it's only a long and involved process when you're older. Young children learn to read fairly easily, just as they quickly learn spoken languages. Much as being exposed to speech teaches them to speak, being exposed to text teaches them to read.

Indeed. If you can pick up novelettes that are a tenth of the price of Elfroot then I'd assume most people can read.

[Nixou]

If you can pick up novelettes that are a tenth of the price of Elfroot then I'd assume most people can read.

 

 

Asunder mentions that most peasants can't read.

When it comes to literacy rate during the late middle ages estimates vary from 10 to 40% of the total population, depending on who you ask.

I would extrapolate and say that in Thedas literacy varies from below 10% in remote rural areas to more than half of the adult population in large cities.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Asunder mentions that most peasants can't read.
When it comes to literacy rate during the late middle ages estimates vary from 10 to 40% of the total population, depending on who you ask.
I would extrapolate and say that in Thedas literacy varies from below 10% in remote rural areas to more than half of the adult population in large cities.

Peasants appear to be a less numerous class than in medieval Europe. And that makes sense, given the labour-saving opportunities afforded by magic.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Played a Qunari with tal-vashoth parents so didn't really run into this issue in Inquisition. In Origins my canon warden was a city elf so I head cannoned it as he became drawn to the chantry after his mother's death and wayward, hot-blooded, Shianni-esque youth where he became a devout Andrastian because the revered mothers were kind to him and taught him to read and write to glorify the Maker, blah blah blah.

[Avejajed]

I pretend that I simply always knew how to read and write and never had to be taught anything, including how to wield magic or draw a bow.

[GithCheater]

The magic of Thedas means everyone is born knowing how to write in their appropriate language, they only have to learn for other languages.
 
 
I don't think the issue of literacy is ever really brought up, at all, in Thedas. Which is fine with me, there are more important things to be worrying about.

... Just like the genetics of Elvan/Human reproduction is MAGIC.

[Big I]

The fact that Varric has a career as an author, that that job even exists, probably means they have printing presses and paper. Varric mentions Hard in Hightown was originally a serial, which i assume means he released it one chapter at a time on a scheduled basis. Anders' manifesto also turned up everywhere in the Hawke mansions, so he was printing it somehow. It's not just them; Genitivi, Sister Pertrine, Philliam a Bard!, all publish contemporary material. There's even a periodical mentioned in Inquisition, the Randy Dowager's Quarterly which reviews erotic fiction.

 

With printing presses and paper, books and written works become cheap enough for common people to own. Since the common tongue is shared across everywhere south of Par Vollen, that means there's a wealth of material to draw from. One of the first printed books IRL was the Bible; I wonder if there are printed versions of the Chant of Light? There must be sheet music at least.

 

On the flip side, there's mention in Asunder of not evey peasant being literate, with dwarven runes often standing in for printed signage. In DA:O, the history of Ferelden only a hundred years ago and why exactly the Wardens were kicked out is so obscure as to be unknown prior to the Warden uncovering it. That seems to indicate that widespread literacy is a fairly recent thing.

[The Night Haunter]

... Just like the genetics of Elvan/Human reproduction is MAGIC.

Magic solves all plot holes

 

Although I actually suspect the Elf/Human thing is an actual plot element that will be uncovered more as we learn more about ancient elves.

[Guitar-Hero]

Well my noble mage first learned to read from bessie the village teacher, they had private outings under the windmill till late in the evenings. People started to gossip because bessie had a terrible secret... She was a bovine horned creature.... She had hidden her secret with an eleborate wig and colorful dress as to destract the poor Trevelyan from her secret. He found out and told Bovine Bessie he couldn't be with a cow.....

 

Years later it turned out that Bovine Bessie wasn't bovine but bull!!! DUN DUN DUUUuunnn!!! Yes bovine Bessie was really Iron Bessie Bull but not Bessie at all... See she was a man, a qunari man. Iron bull had been assigned to spy on a human town, so in order to blend in he posed as a female school teacher named Bessie. Trevelyan was heart broken, so he turned to Cassandra... And every night since Cassandra had to wear horns, a dress and a painted mustache    

[Nixou]

The fact that Varric has a career as an author, that that job even exists, probably means they have printing presses and paper

 

 

From the Hard in Hardtown 3 war table mission:

I got a letter from my editor in Kirkwall today. She tells me that Hard in Hightown 3: The Re-Punchening appeared in print from an Antivan printer a couple weeks ago. I’ll give you a moment to contemplate the horror that is that title.

 

 

It's not probably: There is a transcontinental printing industry.

Now the game doesn't tell us whether the Viscount of Kirkwall shoved a whole printing press down a certain runecrafter's throat or was talked down by the city guard's captain.