27 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeniva]

So yeah. Unsure which to go for. I've heard a few people mention artificer - which is something I wouldn't have even thought of for dual dagger. 

Let me know your thoughts. 

[Bigdawg13]

I'm biased.  I love the DW Tempest.  It's fun and versatile.

 

DW Artificer can be done.  But it doesn't play like a DW rogue IMHO.  I say this because it favors so many multi-hit abilities over single hard-hitters like twin fangs and death blow.  Instead it prefers spinning blades and throwing knives (along with it's unique elemental mines). 

 

DW Assassin can be done.  But I feel like it's sort of boring.  Hidden blades is my #1 masterwork so my tempest has it.  And although Mark of Death is a great boss killer it is a bit boring visually.

 

I know you didn't ask, but I'll tell you why I like the tempest.  Even if you got rid of every single ability other than flask of lightning, I'd still take it.  The ability to stop time is so great, with so much versatility, I can't recommend it enough.  You can use it to interupt a rift, revive a friend, re-position, pop some flasks and boost your damage, or unload some damage.  Visually it is extremly satisfying.  Also, flask of frost is just AWESOME for dual wield.  Those rage demons will hate you.  You walk up to them and start unloading cross-class frost combos and they just vaporize in front of you.  And with the new toggles it's even better.  It takes everything I loved about DW and made it better.

[tcun44]

I agree with BigDawg- Tempest is the best simply due to its versatility. Good against bosses- good against trash mobs. FoFire and Throwing Blades trumps Hidden Blades for damage (Sigils not withstanding). Allows you to be stealthy or melee. Biggest issue is you'll have a difficult time narrowing down your 8 actives.

 

DW Artificer- I really enjoy this one. It's great on trash mobs- which- let's face it- is 90% of the game. Fallback plan + Upgraded Elemental Mines- then go back in and clean up anybody still alive with Deathblow. If you invest a few points into the Archery tree- you can actually use the focus skill (Hail of Arrows) and then swap out your daggers for a Bow against dragons/bosses. Cooldown times on Artificer are fantastic too- you'll never be at a loss for things to do- once your first batch of mines go off.

 

DW Assassin- the new toggle on Hidden Blades actually gives Assassin some effectiveness against mobs- though they have to be tightly bunched. Great against bosses and hits incredibly hard. Seen 16k pop on Death Blows. Still- it's mostly a single target killer. The most irksome thing about Assassin is the long cooldown time and large stamina cost on Hidden Blades- it's 30 seconds plus 65 stamina. I feel like I spent too much time circling waiting for skills to become available. Maybe Great Bear Sigil or a Cooldown Amulet would help.

 

Overall- Tempest is most versatile, Artificer best against mobs, Assassin best against single targets.

[Kallas_br123]

well the good part of the artice is the total lack of colldowns, you always will be using skills almost never using auto atacks.

 

but the visuals of the tempest is pretty cool.

[Jeniva]

agh now Im more confused than ever! I played tempest archer before already.

[Bigdawg13]

agh now Im more confused than ever! I played tempest archer before already.

Well it does play different. Flask of flost is used offensively for example. But if you want something new I'd go assassin. It is more methodical and less berserker. Artificer feels more whackamole IMHO.

[actionhero112]

Assassin. 

 

The DW assassin is capable of so much damage it's stupid. Highest damaging non focus ability in the game, a ridiculous damage multiplier in Mark of Death and comes equipped with auto crit out of stealth, which means you never have to deal with that awkward period in which you don't have enough great bear hide to make decent crit gear. 

 

What really sucks is that the assassin doesn't have neat visuals. You've already seen hidden blades a million times by now because everyone puts it in their masterworks, and while detonating mark of death is one of the most satisfying and powerful things in the game, it doesn't really compare to stopping time visually. 

 

 

Artificer is the archer specialization. I could mince words about it, but a lot of its skills center around creating and maintaining distance between your target and you. Plus the DW rogues's cooldowns are so low that you can essentially go rotation into rotation meaning opportunity knocks isn't even that useful. Neat gimmick if you're into it, but Assassin and Tempest blow it out of the water in terms of damage. This only applies to DW artificers, archer artificers are a whole other beast. 

[NoForgiveness]

Artificer is sort of based around archery. So I'd say go with Assassin.

[Arvaarad]

DW Assassin can do some fun things with Skirmisher, although it's somewhat less special now that archers have a permastealth option on Leaping Shot.

 

I haven't had a DW Tempest inquisitor yet, but I've always given daggers to Sera, and she put them to damn good use. Pincushion + Flask of Lightning + the fastest attack speed in the game (daggers) just vaporizes enemies. No need for Thousand Cuts. Plus, FoL means she's not in danger at melee range.

 

Flask of Frost also pairs really well with daggers, because she can hit a lot more folks with ice. And daggers have plentiful, low-cooldown precision detonators, so she can freeze enemies and immediately hit those massive shatter numbers.

 

Dagger Artificer can do some cool things with traps, though again the permastealth on Leaping Shot makes it not as necessary to go dagger. That, combined with their Hook & Tackle / Leaping Shot power combo, makes them a natural fit for archery, IMO.

 

Honestly, though, the best option depends on who's going to be in your party. Assassins and Tempests play really well together, because Assassins can double the damage that Flask of Lightning dishes out. Two Assassins + a Tempest is really fun for boss fights, because you can double Mark of Death over a Flask of Lightning, then rip off both marks for the kill. Like Assassins, Artificers work well in parties with lots of rogues, due to their passives.

[zeypher]

I agree with BigDawg- Tempest is the best simply due to its versatility. Good against bosses- good against trash mobs. FoFire and Throwing Blades trumps Hidden Blades for damage (Sigils not withstanding). Allows you to be stealthy or melee. Biggest issue is you'll have a difficult time narrowing down your 8 actives.

 

DW Artificer- I really enjoy this one. It's great on trash mobs- which- let's face it- is 90% of the game. Fallback plan + Upgraded Elemental Mines- then go back in and clean up anybody still alive with Deathblow. If you invest a few points into the Archery tree- you can actually use the focus skill (Hail of Arrows) and then swap out your daggers for a Bow against dragons/bosses. Cooldown times on Artificer are fantastic too- you'll never be at a loss for things to do- once your first batch of mines go off.

 

DW Assassin- the new toggle on Hidden Blades actually gives Assassin some effectiveness against mobs- though they have to be tightly bunched. Great against bosses and hits incredibly hard. Seen 16k pop on Death Blows. Still- it's mostly a single target killer. The most irksome thing about Assassin is the long cooldown time and large stamina cost on Hidden Blades- it's 30 seconds plus 65 stamina. I feel like I spent too much time circling waiting for skills to become available. Maybe Great Bear Sigil or a Cooldown Amulet would help.

 

Overall- Tempest is most versatile, Artificer best against mobs, Assassin best against single targets.

Assassins really need more stamina either via a mulet of sigil and if geared right they can just stealth deathblow stealth again. They are extremely good with 1 target at a time.

[draken-heart]

This is gonna sound stupid (since it is not combat based), but what is your character about? Are they a specialized character good at targeting people and taking them out quickly? Are they a cunning individual who tinkered as a kid? Sometimes Roleplaying actually helps if you cannot decide based on combat and gameplay.

[Jeniva]

thanks everyone for the replies. I'll probably go assassin. 

My chara is a dalish elf - and as Solas said, she moves with grace. I do like the assassin spec anyway from when i half played it before. 

[Realyn]

If you use Varric, don't go Artificer. If you use Cole, don't go Assassin. If you use Sera, don't go Tempest.

 

That at least gets one spec out of the way.

 

My personal favourite is Artificer by a long shot. Both as Archer and DW you can easily get infinite stamina and near instant cooldowns on your abilities. Seeing all those mines everywhere with Throw it All upgrade is marvelous, glorious and most importantly, very explosive.

[PapaCharlie9]

If you use Varric, don't go Artificer. If you use Cole, don't go Assassin. If you use Sera, don't go Tempest.

 

That at least gets one spec out of the way.

 

My personal favourite is Artificer by a long shot. Both as Archer and DW you can easily get infinite stamina and near instant cooldowns on your abilities. Seeing all those mines everywhere with Throw it All upgrade is marvelous, glorious and most importantly, very explosive pretty! 

I fixed it for you.

[Evelynne]

I'm going to say up front.

 

I am an Elixir junkie. Tempest gives me the willies, especially when combined with DW.

 

With that said, Artificer is wicked with DW (I seriously don't recommend using its Focus ability, because Archery is garbage (seriously BW, its auto-attacks need to do more damage than a dagger)), the fast attack speed coupled with high crit chance (and all of your party in Crit Chance gear as high as you can make) turns you into a mine throwing fool. I wouldn't even go Dual Wield until the very end because of the Throwing Knifes and Toxic Cloud stuff. 

 

Assassin: Its great either way, and incredibly boring.

 

Tempest or Artificer, and Dual Wielding for both. Without question.

 

EDIT:

 

Now that I've tried Daggertificer, I have to say its the single best thing I've done with Rogue in ages. A+ Must play.

[PhroXenGold]

If you use Varric, don't go Artificer. If you use Cole, don't go Assassin. If you use Sera, don't go Tempest.

 

That at least gets one spec out of the way.

 

My personal favourite is Artificer by a long shot. Both as Archer and DW you can easily get infinite stamina and near instant cooldowns on your abilities. Seeing all those mines everywhere with Throw it All upgrade is marvelous, glorious and most importantly, very explosive.

 

I dunno about that. Varric in particular. Multiple artificers stack very nicely thanks to their crits reducing each others' cooldowns, as well as the party wide crit buff.

 

I'm going to say up front.

 

I am an Elixir junkie. Tempest gives me the willies, especially when combined with DW.

 

With that said, Artificer is wicked with DW (I seriously don't recommend using its Focus ability, because Archery is garbage (seriously BW, its auto-attacks need to do more damage than a dagger)), the fast attack speed coupled with high crit chance (and all of your party in Crit Chance gear as high as you can make) turns you into a mine throwing fool. I wouldn't even go Dual Wield until the very end because of the Throwing Knifes and Toxic Cloud stuff. 

 

Assassin: Its great either way, and incredibly boring.

 

Tempest or Artificer, and Dual Wielding for both. Without question.

 

EDIT:

 

Now that I've tried Daggertificer, I have to say its the single best thing I've done with Rogue in ages. A+ Must play.

 

I'm not quite sure what auto attack damage has to do with archery artificers. Once I had my crit up to about 50%, I don't think I used a single AA in the rest of the game. Leaping shot replaces it once you can eliminate its cooldown and get more energy back than it takes to use, with Hook and Tackle ensuring you're always in the right position to get a full 12 hits on a single target (600% damage, and a 72% chance that you'll get at least one trigger off each of your hidden blade [or other offensive MW] procs....) or use mines against groups (speaking of which, I really need to roll another one to try out the unique Artifice bow - lots of crit and an elemental mines proc. That has to be amazing). And the focus of course lets you double that. To the extent the game sometimes crashes because it can't handle all the stuff happening. Too. Many. Arrows.

 

I'd certainly agree that an artificer wants to be staying at close range, but it doesn't need to be wielding daggers to to so effectively. Both weapon styles work very well.

[TheInvoker]

i played DW assassin and tempest

I like tempest design (my first inquisitor) but assassin was ore funny to play

 

Tempest=auto attacks mostly

Assassin=stealth+boost to reset stealth

Artificer=multi hits like someone said (spinning blades)

[Bigdawg13]

i played DW assassin and tempest

I like tempest design (my first inquisitor) but assassin was ore funny to play

 

Tempest=auto attacks mostly

Assassin=stealth+boost to reset stealth

Artificer=multi hits like someone said (spinning blades)

 

I don't think we play Tempest the same way.  My tempest never used auto-attacks.  Flask of Fire helped with that.  And the new toggle is even better.

[TheInvoker]

flask of fire not used much because i found out that lasts too short.

 

i use hook and tackle to jump on enemies and then flank attack to go behind them and have 100% critical chance (i build 50%)

i use flask of ice for combo and lighting for free damage

poisoned weapons active whenever i can to do more damage and to regen HP (i love new upgrade)

 

H&T upgraded has no cost and no CD while flank attack a low CD so i don't really need flask of fire.

Auto attacks does more damage because animations of abilities are not quick.

 

let's say i'm 1v1 vs a trong enemy

1)activate flask of ice

2) hook and tackle

3) enemie will freeze

4) flank attack

5) twing fang

6) flask of lightning

7) finish him wih auto attacks

 

i would take death too but i don't have space on the bar

 

1) H&T

2) Flank attack

3) Twin fang

4) Poisoned weapons

5) Flask of lightning

6) Flask of ice

7) throwing knife (rarely used) but sometimes it's better to attack from distance when i'm low on HP

8) Thousand cuts

[Bigdawg13]

flask of fire not used much because i found out that lasts too short.

 

i use hook and tackle to jump on enemies and then flank attack to go behind them and have 100% critical chance (i build 50%)

i use flask of ice for combo and lighting for free damage

poisoned weapons active whenever i can to do more damage and to regen HP (i love new upgrade)

 

H&T upgraded has no cost and no CD while flank attack a low CD so i don't really need flask of fire.

Auto attacks does more damage because animations of abilities are not quick.

 

let's say i'm 1v1 vs a trong enemy

1)activate flask of ice

2) hook and tackle

3) enemie will freeze

4) flank attack

5) twing fang

6) flask of lightning

7) finish him wih auto attacks

 

i would take death too but i don't have space on the bar

 

1) H&T

2) Flank attack

3) Twin fang

4) Poisoned weapons

5) Flask of lightning

6) Flask of ice

7) throwing knife (rarely used) but sometimes it's better to attack from distance when i'm low on HP

8) Thousand cuts

 

With the new upgrade toggle you can almost keep flask of fire going indefinitely.

 

I'm just saying that our tempest styles are different as day is to night.  And I never use H&T on anything but an archer.  Just more flavor differences.  All good indications of a great complex class with high versatility.

 

My DW Tempest almost always ends up like this:

 

1) Twin Fangs

2) Death Blow

3) Flask of Frost

4) Flask of Fire

5) Flask of Lightning

6) Stealth OR Flank Attack

7) Shadow Strike or Focus or Spinning Strikes

8) Evade

 

If I use the old Flask of Fire toggle, then I use it primarily to destroy any target with less than 50% health by spamming death blow.  With the new toggle though, you can keep it going indefinitely.  The only time I normally attack is when under flask of lightning, but I rarely use flask of lightning for that direct damage purposes.

[PapaCharlie9]

 

 

My DW Tempest almost always ends up like this:

 

1) Twin Fangs

2) Death Blow

3) Flask of Frost

4) Flask of Fire

5) Flask of Lightning

6) Stealth OR Flank Attack

7) Shadow Strike or Focus or Spinning Strikes

8) Evade

 

If I use the old Flask of Fire toggle, then I use it primarily to destroy any target with less than 50% health by spamming death blow.  With the new toggle though, you can keep it going indefinitely.  The only time I normally attack is when under flask of lightning, but I rarely use flask of lightning for that direct damage purposes.

That's similar to the spec I'm running Sera with. I use Shadow Strike rather than Death Blow, I don't equip Flask of Frost (Flank Attack uses that slot), and have Thousand Cuts always. Play is the same also (when I'm controlling her, though AI does a pretty good job too), no AA unless on FoL, spam FoFire all day. Plus I have HBx4 and HBx5 and over 50% crit chance, for ridonkulous damage.

[Bigdawg13]

That's similar to the spec I'm running Sera with. I use Shadow Strike rather than Death Blow, I don't equip Flask of Frost (Flank Attack uses that slot), and have Thousand Cuts always. Play is the same also (when I'm controlling her, though AI does a pretty good job too), no AA unless on FoL, spam FoFire all day. Plus I have HBx4 and HBx5 and over 50% crit chance, for ridonkulous damage.

 

Hold on...you're telling me you are running a DW Tempest without flask of frost?

[PapaCharlie9]

Hold on...you're telling me you are running a DW Tempest without flask of frost?

Yep. Arguably, since I'm running her with my Shatter optimized RM, that's kind of dumb, but I didn't want to give up anything else in the active slots.

[Bigdawg13]

Yep. Arguably, since I'm running her with my Shatter optimized RM, that's kind of dumb, but I didn't want to give up anything else in the active slots.

 

I'd give up Thousand Cuts ... hell, I'd give up almost anything to have Flask of Frost on a DW Tempest.  I'd drop stealth.  I'd ... I'd.....*falls unconcious from shock*

[PapaCharlie9]

I'd give up Thousand Cuts ... hell, I'd give up almost anything to have Flask of Frost on a DW Tempest.  I'd drop stealth.  I'd ... I'd.....*falls unconcious from shock*

 

Well, kids shouldn't try this at home, no doubt. And I did run with Flask of Frost for most of Sera's career post-Skyhold. Just don't seem to need it now. Plus, while it's on, I can't use FoL or FoFire.

 

It is purchased, just not equipped, so if something deeper in Descent makes me regret not having it, it's only a reload away.