38 réponses à ce sujet

[Element Zero]

Agreed, I got it on day one after trying the interesting demo... don't think I finished it until June.  I just couldn't bring myself to play it... progression was so boring.
 

 
Good point.  If DA:I reversed the story-to-sidequest ratio, then they'd have a game.

I'd not thought of phrasing it this way. Indeed, reversing that ratio would've made for an entirely different experience. I was expecting something more in line with this inverse, rather than what we got. Lessons were learned by all parties, hopefully. The feedback was loud and sustained enough that I expect MEA will be less sparse and lifeless.

[Karma_Joy]

I felt like most of the side quests were there to grind through to gain level. It seemed like mostly filler. 

[wolfhowwl]

It would be better if BioWare included exploration as an organic extension of the story content instead of separating them like they did with ME1 and DA3.

 

For example, rescuing Liara on Therum in ME1 could involve approaching her dig site through an open sandbox map of a ruined Prothean city where there could be things like alternate approaches, bonus objectives, and collectibles or artifacts.

[Regan_Cousland]

I felt like most of the side quests were there to grind through to gain level. It seemed like mostly filler. 

 

Exactly. And it simply isn't true, as some people claim, that you can "ignore" the side-quests in Dragon Age: Inquisition. At least not if you play on Nightmare difficulty, like I do.

 

In order to survive the main story missions, you literally have to grind for hours and hours in order to level up and acquire appropriate gear. This grinding can be enjoyable if you coax yourself into an MMO mindset and use the power of headcanon to imagine that your party members are aware of one another's existence, but, ultimately, however you approach it, it's dreary work when compared to the fun, focused, character-driven quests of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2.

Now, if those pretty open-world environments contained really fun, relevant, story-driven quests, like BioWare quests of old, I'd do them gladly in order to increase my character's abilities, and I'd simply ignore most of the filler that didn't appeal to me. 

The problem with Inquisition -- THE problem: the One Problem to Rule Them All (booming wizard voice) -- is that almost everything outside of the main story feels like filler. That's what I desperately want to get away from in Mass Effect: Andromeda.

Yes, give us pretty planets to explore, give us loot to find, give us random mercenaries to kill, and give us a few of the obligatory filler quests that are a staple of all RPGs -- but make all of those things truly optional.

The beating heart and soul of the game should be the deep, involving story quests that we truly care about. 

[Regan_Cousland]

It would be better if BioWare included exploration as an organic extension of the story content instead of separating them like they did with ME1 and DA3.

 

For example, rescuing Liara on Therum in ME1 could involve approaching her dig site through an open sandbox map of a ruined Prothean city where there could be things like alternate approaches, bonus objectives, and collectibles or artifacts.

 

Exactly! 

[Pasquale1234]

Exactly. And it simply isn't true, as some people claim, that you can "ignore" the side-quests in Dragon Age: Inquisition. At least not if you play on Nightmare difficulty, like I do.

It's still optional, is it not? If you choose to play on Nightmare, it makes a certain amount of sense that you'd have to work a little harder to be successful.
 

The beating heart and soul of the game should be the deep, involving story quests that we truly care about.

For me, the beating heart and soul of a game include the companions, and my character's reasons for her moment-by-moment choices. Major moments in the dev's storyline are just mile markers.

[Regan_Cousland]

[The side-quests are] still optional, [are they] not? If you choose to play on Nightmare, it makes a certain amount of sense that you'd have to work a little harder to be successful.
 

 

That's true, but let's say I played the game on Casual and only played the interesting missions. The game would be over in a heart-beat and I'd have no reason to visit most of the game's locations. Inquisition is clearly designed around grinding -- hence the Power mechanic that acts as a barrier to progression, even if XP and gear aren't an issue. 

The Power mechanic exists to force the player to do the minimum amount of grinding. It's a number counter in place of a plot. 

Dragon Age: Origins was all plot; the grinding was contained within that plot, so you never even noticed you were grinding. You were too busy having fun.

[Pasquale1234]

That's true, but let's say I played the game on Casual and only played the interesting missions. The game would be over in a heart-beat and I'd have no reason to visit most of the game's locations. Inquisition is clearly designed around grinding -- hence the Power mechanic that acts as a barrier to progression, even if XP and gear aren't an issue. 

The Power mechanic exists to force the player to do the minimum amount of grinding. It's a number counter in place of a plot.

Not trying to be willfully contrary here, but note that this argument starts by singling out "interesting missions".

I'm guessing that line between "interesting missions" and anything else in the game is subjective, and varies by player.

[Regan_Cousland]

Not trying to be willfully contrary here, but note that this argument starts by singling out "interesting missions".

I'm guessing that line between "interesting missions" and anything else in the game is subjective, and varies by player.

 

Very true. What constitutes an "interesting mission" is subjective. But, in my opinion, Inquisition is a game composed almost entirely of Chantry Board missions. The kind of missions that were momentary, optional distractions in Dragon Age: Origins.

And that doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed Inquisition. I have. I just see the potential for something greater. And I hope Andromeda realizes that potential.

[WittyUsername]

I enjoyed Morrowind and Oblivion but Skyrim was, in my opinion, the worst title of the series. No choice/consquence, dull and generic story, and so much wasted potential for Nordic culture and cults.

Not to mention poor writing

Morrowind I had fun and enjoyed. I actually had to force myself to finish Oblivion. Skyrim, I started... then stopped.

[Regan_Cousland]

Morrowind I had fun and enjoyed. I actually had to force myself to finish Oblivion. Skyrim, I started... then stopped.

 

I started Oblivion numerous times, but I always got bored and quit a few hours in because there was no interesting reason to actually do anything.

Exploration for the sake of exploration, looting and levelling up -- although a fun distraction -- just isn't enough to keep me interested in the long term.

I need purpose.

Time for a quick-'n'-corny quote from the lovely Agent Smith, denizen of The Matrix: "Without purpose, we would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us. Purpose that pulls us. That guides us. That drives us. It is purpose that defines us."

 

That's why I always preferred BioWare games. Wherever I happened to be in the game, whatever quest I happened to be on, BioWare always gave me a reason to care about what I was doing. They gave me purpose.

For all of its (admittedly impressive) technical improvements, Inquisition too often fails to provide me with a compelling purpose to do most things outside of the main story and the companion quests. 

 

Therefore I hope the environments in Mass Effect serve the narrative instead of acting as a colossal distraction from it, and I hope the side-quests are fewer in number but longer and of significantly greater interest.

P.S. I've made this point quite a few times, now, so I'm going to give it a rest. Surely someone at BioWare read it once, right? RIGHT?! lol

[Pasquale1234]

I started Oblivion numerous times, but I always got bored and quit a few hours in because there was no interesting reason to actually do anything.

Exploration for the sake of exploration, looting and levelling up -- although a fun distraction -- just isn't enough to keep me interested in the long term.

What I (and I think some others) like about it is that it just gives you a world to free-play your character. You can invent your own motives, headcanon party conversations along the way, think about who your character is and what they are thinking and feeling at any given moment. Smell the roses, so to speak. Or take a dump behind a bush - lol.

I'm often astounded by the artwork, detail, environmental sounds, the sounds of my character's footsteps, everything that went into creating the experience.

Honestly, without some free-roam / free-play time, modern games tend to feel like some action-adventure flick where I'm taken from scene to scene and asked to play out the combat parts. The times when the game isn't pushing me into some pre-canned mission and cutscenes are the times when I can feel that my character is grounded in and actually exists in the world 24x7 - because not every moment of our lives are action-packed.

There are times when I need to -ahem- tweak the narrative a bit in order to get what I want out of a game. For example, in both ME1 and FO3, I 'pretended' that my character had no clues of where to go / who to talk to next to find Saren / Dad, and went exploring to look for clues. Not ideal, but a small price to pay in order to enjoy the games' content at my leisure and pace.
 

I need purpose.

Time for a quick-'n'-corny quote from the lovely Agent Smith, denizen of The Matrix: "Without purpose, we would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us. Purpose that pulls us. That guides us. That drives us. It is purpose that defines us."

This I get.

It was my single biggest issue with DA2's Hawke - I never could figure out what she was on about. I played hour after hour, feeling very uncomfortable as if waiting for the other shoe to drop - and it never did.

In the first act, we needed to scrape up 50 gold to invest in the Deep Roads expedition. Okay, that works - I at least have a short-term goal here. Once it's completed, then what? Uh, okay - I'll set a goal of taking care of Mom, since it seems the only thing I can do... uh, oops. So much for that. I really couldn't come up with any legitimate reason to stay in Kirkwall - with the blight having been quenched, I wanted to leave that cesspool and return to help rebuild Ferelden. Add to that the goofy tone dialogue system, and - well, Hawke always felt like an NPC to me, and not a particularly compelling one at that.

But criticizing DA2 is not my point here - it is to say that, yeah, I need the protagonist to *be* a protagonist, and have an overall objective or cause of some sort.

[Sartoz]

 Snip

I need purpose.

Snip
 

Therefore I hope the environments in Mass Effect serve the narrative instead of acting as a colossal distraction from it, and I hope the side-quests are fewer in number but longer and of significantly greater interest.

P.S. I've made this point quite a few times, now, so I'm going to give it a rest. Surely someone at BioWare read it once, right? RIGHT?! lol

 

                                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

ME:A's focus is exploration.

 

If the Khet - Human conflict is implemented (from leaked poll), then uncovering Remnant Tech is the one vital resource that humanity needs to survive. This, then, is the main character's purpose.

 

There will be plenty of side quests. How interesting remains to be seen. I expect Loyalty quests, Urgent quests,  Save the Outpost quests, MP quests, Save a Science team quest and NPC quests. The latter may be filler ones.

 

And, oh, a quest to find our LI battle suit. Otherwise, our LI will go into battle nakid  and I'm sure there are a few posters here that won't like that at all.

 

 
 

[Erstus]

Exactly. And it simply isn't true, as some people claim, that you can "ignore" the side-quests in Dragon Age: Inquisition. At least not if you play on Nightmare difficulty, like I do.
 
In order to survive the main story missions, you literally have to grind for hours and hours in order to level up and acquire appropriate gear. This grinding can be enjoyable if you coax yourself into an MMO mindset and use the power of headcanon to imagine that your party members are aware of one another's existence, but, ultimately, however you approach it, it's dreary work when compared to the fun, focused, character-driven quests of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2.
Now, if those pretty open-world environments contained really fun, relevant, story-driven quests, like BioWare quests of old, I'd do them gladly in order to increase my character's abilities, and I'd simply ignore most of the filler that didn't appeal to me. 
The problem with Inquisition -- THE problem: the One Problem to Rule Them All (booming wizard voice) -- is that almost everything outside of the main story feels like filler. That's what I desperately want to get away from in Mass Effect: Andromeda.
Yes, give us pretty planets to explore, give us loot to find, give us random mercenaries to kill, and give us a few of the obligatory filler quests that are a staple of all RPGs -- but make all of those things truly optional.
The beating heart and soul of the game should be the deep, involving story quests that we truly care about.

Quoting for importance and relevance