119 réponses à ce sujet

[Bacus]

I am some guy, and This is my favorite post in the Forums

[Mcfly616]

I would argue that the Salarian uplift of the Krogan vies for that top spot, followed by the Asari withholding vital tech to keep an edge in violation of a law they penned.

 The Salarians eventually solved that problem. Genophage worked just fine in preventing another rebellion. The Asari did what any other species/civilization would've done. Kept it to themselves. The law was penned long after the Asari discovered the beacon. That thing was found on their homeworld before they discovered the Citadel.

 

 

 

 

 

The Quarians were meddling with things they shouldn't have meddled with, legally or morally. They didn't stop the problem they caused. They ran away from it. They let it run amok around a whole sector of space, and eventually in pockets around the entire galaxy. They made their problem into everybody's problem and didn't bother to clean up the mess.

[KaiserShep]

The salarians solved the problem, but not until a lot of turians and asari died in the process. I wonder what would've happened had the quarians not decide to just up and destroy the geth and told the council to suck eggs. I'd pay to see the quarians fight alongside the geth against everyone else lol.

As for the quarians not trying to clean up their own mess, that's technically not true; they just didn't meet much success, and when they were finally close, it was too late.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 The Salarians eventually solved that problem. Genophage worked just fine in preventing another rebellion. The Asari did what any other species/civilization would've done. Kept it to themselves. The law was penned long after the Asari discovered the beacon. That thing was found on their homeworld before they discovered the Citadel.

 

 

 

 

 

The Quarians were meddling with things they shouldn't have meddled with, legally or morally. They didn't stop the problem they caused. They ran away from it. They let it run amok around a whole sector of space, and eventually in pockets around the entire galaxy. They made their problem into everybody's problem and didn't bother to clean up the mess.

The Salarians had to get the rest of the council races to fight their problem and Billions of lives later it was solved, the Quarians had to fight their problem alone and suffered for it.

READ that last paragraph you typed carefully and look at the Krogan uplift wars again.

[KaiserShep]

It's even better in that the salarians did not learn their lesson and were doing the same thing with the yagh.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Pretty much any Quarian wrongdoing pales in comparison to what the Council races did to the Krogan. Pre-Reaper Code, the Geth were toasters whose function imitated intelligent life but really wasn't. Creating or destroying them was about as morally reprehensible as eating soup with a fork (it just so happened that the toasters went violent). Stupid yes, evil no.

Committing genocide against an entire species like the Salarians and Turians did is much worse.

Nonetheless, what both parties did is ancient history by the time the games start. Neither the Quarians nor Salarians/Turians should be blamed for their ancestors' errors.

[Wolfman]

I have to confess....

The word "flotilla" makes me think of "tortilla." Also, I want to say it like: "Flo tee ya"....

What?

.....
Shut up.

[Mcfly616]

Committing genocide against an entire species like the Salarians and Turians did is much worse.

 Neither the Salarians nor the Turians  committed genocide. They implemented the Genophage. There was no systemic extermination attempt. 

[Mcfly616]

The Salarians had to get the rest of the council races to fight their problem and Billions of lives later it was solved, the Quarians had to fight their problem alone and suffered for it.

READ that last paragraph you typed carefully and look at the Krogan uplift wars again.

 You don't need to tell me about ME lore. I'm well aware of the Krogan uplift as well as their rebellions. Still doesn't change the fact that the problem was taken care of long ago. The Quarians "ran". They didn't fight anything (alone or otherwise). They lost their Homeworld and have spent the last 300 years sitting on ships floating around the Galaxy. 

 

The Salarians and Turians didn't get *****-slapped into submission like the suit rats did. They cleaned up their mess.

[Vortex13]

 Neither the Salarians nor the Turians  committed genocide. They implemented the Genophage. There was no systemic extermination attempt. 

 

 

You know who did (at least as far as everyone knew) commit genocide? The Krogan.

 

But since evil space bugs don't count as people it's okay. Try to argue in favor of the Genophage deployment though, and in the eyes of the narrative you are an evil, racist, jerk hole.

[AllianceGrunt]

 You don't need to tell me about ME lore. I'm well aware of the Krogan uplift as well as their rebellions. Still doesn't change the fact that the problem was taken care of long ago. The Quarians "ran". They didn't fight anything (alone or otherwise). They lost their Homeworld and have spent the last 300 years sitting on ships floating around the Galaxy. 

 

The Salarians and Turians didn't get *****-slapped into submission like the suit rats did. They cleaned up their mess.

 

Woah, suit rats? Fictional xenophobia. 

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 You don't need to tell me about ME lore. I'm well aware of the Krogan uplift as well as their rebellions. Still doesn't change the fact that the problem was taken care of long ago. The Quarians "ran". They didn't fight anything (alone or otherwise). They lost their Homeworld and have spent the last 300 years sitting on ships floating around the Galaxy. 

 

The Salarians and Turians didn't get *****-slapped into submission like the suit rats did. They cleaned up their mess.

I obviously do, as you are obviously suffering from myopia and overlooked the fact you are being hypocritical.

[Mcfly616]

 

[Mcfly616]

I obviously do, as you are obviously suffering from myopia and overlooked the fact you are being hypocritical.

 go ahead and point out where I'm being hypocritical. 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

 Neither the Salarians nor the Turians  committed genocide. They implemented the Genophage. There was no systemic extermination attempt. 

 

I'd say that all the stillborn Krogan babies would like to have a word with you, but they obviously can't because the genophage (which was systematically implemented to affect all Krogan) killed them. It was designed to kill them.

 

The "ancient" Salarians and Turians committed genocide. So did the Krogan, of course, but still.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 go ahead and point out where I'm being hypocritical. 

The fact you are excusing the Salarians embroiling the entire galaxy in a massive war and then lampooning the Quarians for causing their own destruction and a limited exposure to the rest of the galaxy.

[Mcfly616]

The fact you are excusing the Salarians embroiling the entire galaxy in a massive war and then lampooning the Quarians for causing their own destruction and a limited exposure to the rest of the galaxy.

  it's easy for you to point fingers and say things like "hypocrite" when you leave out the sticking point of what I said. The Salarians cleaned up their mess. The Quarians didn't.

 

 

They created AI (illegally) and then conceded their Homeworld. AI that willingly became Reaper proxies, not once, but twice.

[Kynare]

Does anyone else have some love for Admiral Koris? I really love his voice and he wears the name "Qwib-Qwib" like a champ.

[Mcfly616]

Does anyone else have some love for Admiral Koris? I really love his voice and he wears the name "Qwib-Qwib" like a champ.

 I thought all the Admirals were well written. Except for the part where Tali was shoehorned in as one.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

  it's easy for you to point fingers and say things like "hypocrite" when you leave out the sticking point of what I said. The Salarians cleaned up their mess. The Quarians didn't.

 

 

They created AI (illegally) and then conceded their Homeworld. AI that willingly became Reaper proxies, not once, but twice.

You asked me to point out where you were being a hypocrite and i did, now you are using a Straw-man argument.

[Mcfly616]

You asked me to point out where you were being a hypocrite and i did, now you are using a Straw-man argument.

 but you didn't though. You left out important context, rendering your argument a moot point. Both species created their own mess on a galactic scale. While one cleaned their mess up, the other tucked tail and ran for 3 centuries. There's no straw-man, just the facts which I've stated since the beginning of this discussion.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

 but you didn't though. You left out important context, rendering your argument a moot point. Both species created their own mess on a galactic scale. While one cleaned their mess up, the other tucked tail and ran for 3 centuries. There's no straw-man, just the facts which I've stated since the beginning of this discussion.

Seriously, do i need to point it out in an obvious fashion for you, very well. Hypocrisy is when you lambaste one group for causing a catastrophe on a galactic scale but give another one a free pass for a similar thing.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent ie Adding in the fact that the Geth were cooped by the Reapers is exactly this.

Also not going to argue any more with you, as it is like getting blood out of a stone.

[KaiserShep]

The Salarians and Turians didn't get *****-slapped into submission like the suit rats did. They cleaned up their mess.

Of course, the council races had the added benefit of rallying their strength. But even with their combined military might, the krogan were on the fast track to victory. The turians got their asses handed to them, and they would have lost if not for the salarian bio weapon. No single faction had the capacity to get the upper hand alone. Even with the genophage virus, the salarians would have been decimated if they were alone in their fight against the rebellion. They probably would've resorted to a more final solution (as it were), and simply rid the galaxy of the krogan for good. The quarians had to do it all alone. If they were able to call on the turians or salarians for help, they might've taken Rannoch back a lot sooner, possibly before Sovereign got a chance to talk to the heretics.

[Mcfly616]

Seriously, do i need to point it out in an obvious fashion for you, very well. Hypocrisy is when you lambaste one group for causing a catastrophe on a galactic scale but give another one a free pass for a similar thing.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent ie Adding in the fact that the Geth were cooped by the Reapers is exactly this.

 You clearly don't understand the discussion at hand and are simply cherry-picking what you want to respond to. 

 

I lambasted one group who made a galactic mess and ran away instead of cleaning it up. Not lambasting the Salarians for actually dealing with the problem they caused, is in no way hypocritical. You're way off base.

 

 

Adding in the fact that the Geth became Reaper proxies is just the cherry on top. And a fact. It's not a straw man in any way whatsoever. Especially when the basis for the whole discussion of galactic screw-up, hinges on the fact that the Salarians cleaned up their spilt milk, while the Quarians just left it on the floor and walked out the door. The Reapers using Geth proxies just adds insult to injury. If they didn't show up, the Quarians would be screw ups just the same. 

 

Hypocritical would be blaming both species, even though the Salarians did something about it. So no, it's not hypocritical to say that the Quarians are screw-ups for refusing to solve their issue, when the Salarians did the respectable thing and were actually proactive about combating theirs.

[Mcfly616]

Of course, the council races had the added benefit of rallying their strength. But even with their combined military might, the krogan were on the fast track to victory. The turians got their asses handed to them, and they would have lost if not for the salarian bio weapon. No single faction had the capacity to get the upper hand alone. Even with the genophage virus, the salarians would have been decimated if they were alone in their fight against the rebellion. They probably would've resorted to a more final solution (as it were), and simply rid the galaxy of the krogan for good. The quarians had to do it all alone. If they were able to call on the turians or salarians for help, they might've taken Rannoch back a lot sooner, possibly before Sovereign got a chance to talk to the heretics.

 And why did they have to do it alone? Possibly because they broke a serious galactic law (in spite of the Council). Coulda, woulda, shoulda. They made their bed, they should've laid in it.