288 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

Also, could someone describe to me how the Witcher 3 plots hinges on a snowball fight? That sounds amusing. Go heavy on the spoilers, I don't intend to play it.

[Laughing_Man]

Also, could someone describe to me how the Witcher 3 plots hinges on a snowball fight? That sounds amusing. Go heavy on the spoilers, I don't intend to play it.

 

Hardly hinges on a snowball fight.

 

However, certain aspects of the ending depend on the morale level of a certain character, the snowball fight was a way to raise said morale.

[rashie]

Also, could someone describe to me how the Witcher 3 plots hinges on a snowball fight? That sounds amusing. Go heavy on the spoilers, I don't intend to play it.

Spoiler tagging just in case...

 

Spoiler

The way the ending plays out at least as far as Ciris fate goes hinges upon how much you push for the decisions that drive her in a direction were she believes in herself, and have to handle things on her own, more so than a single snowball fight. Its actually 5-6 decisions points in addition there. Same thing goes with the meeting with the lodge afterwards, if you send her in there alone it has a positive effect, but a negative one if you go in there and handle it with her in the background.

 

In regards to the snowball fight, you have two options there, one is trying to cheer her up with some fun and the other is telling her she doesn't need to to be good at everything, you can probably figure out which one is the most positive there.

 

The choices might seem random but there's very deliberate reasoning behind them if actually thinking about it.

 

The witcher series does choice and consequence differently than bioware throughout all the games, which is that choices often don't have obvious results right off the bat and once you see what its changing you've progressed further into the game and is committed to it, which is a deterrent to save scumming for optimal results.

[Han Shot First]

Skellige is my favorite environment in TW3. Totally immersive and therapeutic to explore. I hope to get the same vibe from numerous planets in ME:A.

 

I love the music there as well. I'd sometimes stop and just listen to it.

[dreamgazer]

Hardly hinges on a snowball fight.

However, certain aspects of the ending depend on the morale level of a certain character, the snowball fight was a way to raise said morale.

Definitely does.

Spoiler

The sole, significant variation in the playable epilogue sequence depends on this "morale", which is shaped by choosing to have a snowball fight and ransack a room (among a few other things) instead of, you know, having actual conversations and resisting childish urges. Again, it rewards one approach and punishes another in a very one-sided manner.

[Battlebloodmage]

In term of storyline, Dragon Age tries to stay very clean and tries not to offend anyone. I don't mind being offended, I have stuffs happen to me for who I am and what i've been through. If those stories happen to touch upon those, then they should go ahead instead of avoiding it because it may offend someone. 

In term of romances, it did feel kinda shallow, I was hoping for more quality, better development would be fine. Well, the sex scenes should have been available for every character or at least implied, it's just annoying when they try to be "artistic". 

The sidequests are not at all connected and a waste of time, it would be better if it's interesting and interconnected and have a story of their own. Most of them are just short fetch quests.

The war table is annoying to deal with on console where you have to wait hours for it to complete. It's not a smart phone game, use some other mechanics.

In term of characters, they are all very "yes" man, approval is basically just mean how low before they leave you. I feel like they need to be more assertive and make decisions and be influenced by their experience throughout the game, not because you say something and they all do it.

[Mathias]

Which was much easier and safer, especially with its "Princess is in another castle!" first act. Streamlined.

 

Ok THAT is such BS, it really sounds like you've got a grudge against TW3 or something. Making something into a personal story = streamlined? What kind of logic is that? It's not easier and safer to write a personal story. Do you know how many personal stories have come out, and sucked? 

 

 

A lot of side-quests in Inquisition had "flavor" as well, though, and they didn't lean on the contract structure like a crutch.

I personally feel that TW3's sidequest had more flavor than DA:I's. And I know I am not the only one that feels that way. Not by a thousand miles. Never saw contracts as a crutch. Just some fun sidequesting to do when I wasn't playing the Main Story. Sometimes in DA:I I found myself doing sidequests, because I needed to do them to progress the story, not because I wanted to do them. That alone puts TW3's side quest design over DA:I. 

 

 

Sounds like an easy pass for streamlining, and we're not just talking about respecting choices. We're talking about character consistency and care. Triss and Radovid suffered greatly there.

Or they just didn't emphasize on "choices matter" as much as Bioware did. Let's not get into character consistency and care, especially in comparison to Bioware's handling of characters. Whatever CDPR did to their characters that's considered inconsistent, is child's play compared to the stuff Bioware pulled with some of their characters. Mass Effect 3 is the crown jewel on that one.

 

 

How does engaging in a snowball fight and petulantly trashing a room, instead of trying to engage in normal conversation and smartly maintaining decorum, strengthen her resolve?

 

That's precisely the point. The game rewards one behavior, arguably reckless and immature behavior, and punishes the other. One-sided. Streamlined.

 

It really sounds like this just comes down to personal preference on how you would've preferred the story to handle Ciri's fate. I never saw a problem with it, because given how human beings can be, and Ciri's character, the choices that influenced her made sense to me. Also you keep tossing the word "streamlined" around like a weapon. I'm having suspicions that you don't have a firm grasp on what that term means, nor do you understand it's not inherently a bad thing. 

 

Spoiler

Have that snowball fight, or Ciri might die/disappear.

 

Right. Choose to have fun with her to lift her spirits up, or continue to mope. 

 

 

Not really, no.

 

Yes they have. They have irrefutably been caught feeding misinformation, lying, and forging fake reviews in the past. Both EA and Bioware.

[BabyPuncher]

Yes they have. They have irrefutably been caught...forging fake reviews in the past. Both EA and Bioware.

 

 

[mickey111]

so, what dreamgazer, you wish that the decisions in W3 had more predictable outcomes? I didn't. I liked the characters, I chose what I thought was the right thing to do and not be pandering or serious with ciri. I like how her story ended despite not seeing it coming, but you know what? Life is not transparant, and neither are the best characters, the best stories. The word here is "realism". What you call vague and frustrating, I call realistic and immersive. Nothing wrong with your point of view other than the fact that we don't share it.

[BabyPuncher]

Life is not transparant, and neither are the best characters, the best stories. The word here is "realism". What you call vague and frustrating, I call realistic and immersive. Nothing wrong with your point of view other than the fact that we don't share it.

 

Very clumsy and very wrong reasoning.

 

Should 99% of all action fiction involve the protagonist getting shot in the face or ganked 20 minutes in? That's certainly the most 'realistic' outcome, if we define 'realistic' as 'that which is most likely to happen were this event to occur in real life.'

[mickey111]

yes

[dreamgazer]

Ok THAT is such BS, it really sounds like you've got a grudge against TW3 or something. Making something into a personal story = streamlined? What kind of logic is that? It's not easier and safer to write a personal story. Do you know how many personal stories have come out, and sucked?

Yeah, it is much safer and easier than dealing with the nuance of politics, especially the way CDPR handled the drawn-out tracking of Ciri and slow feed of info in the first part of game. Streamlined.
 

I personally feel that TW3's sidequest had more flavor than DA:I's. And I know I am not the only one that feels that way. Not by a thousand miles. Never saw contracts as a crutch. Just some fun sidequesting to do when I wasn't playing the Main Story. Sometimes in DA:I I found myself doing sidequests, because I needed to do them to progress the story, not because I wanted to do them. That alone puts TW3's side quest design over DA:I.

More flavor? Sure, maybe, but Inquisition also has plenty of optional content that's flavorful. But Witcher 3 still leans on the design like a crutch, and has plenty of brainless filler quests, too. Some of which "need" to be done to obtain the expedition charges in getting to Skellige.
 

Or they just didn't emphasize on "choices matter" as much as Bioware did. Let's not get into character consistency and care, especially in comparison to Bioware's handling of characters. Whatever CDPR did to their characters that's considered inconsistent, is child's play compared to the stuff Bioware pulled with some of their characters. Mass Effect 3 is the crown jewel on that one.

Highly arguable, and still an easy pass. Poke around CDPR's board, and you'll find a lot of the same complaining as you found about ME3's inconsistency of characters. Also, don't forget ME2's consistency issues and retcons, sir.
 

It really sounds like this just comes down to personal preference on how you would've preferred the story to handle Ciri's fate. I never saw a problem with it, because given how human beings can be, and Ciri's character, the choices that influenced her made sense to me.

Guess it does boil down to personal preference, because sometimes you can't substitute actual growth of character with hitting each other with snowballs and ransacking a room. Sometimes it takes actual conversations with substance; rewarding one and ignoring the other is disingenuously one-sided.
 

Also you keep tossing the word "streamlined" around like a weapon. I'm having suspicions that you don't have a firm grasp on what that term means, nor do you understand it's not inherently a bad thing.

It's not inherently a bad thing, but the Witcher series did, indeed, undergo plenty of streamlining between 2 and 3. You've yet to convince me otherwise.
 

Right. Choose to have fun with her to lift her spirits up, or continue to mope.

Or, third option, or what should've been the second option: have an authentic conversation and maintain a sense of decency.
 

Yes they have. They have irrefutably been caught feeding misinformation, lying, and forging fake reviews in the past. Both EA and Bioware.

Feeding misinformation and lying is something CDPR have been accused of lately, too. Does that make it true?

[dreamgazer]

so, what dreamgazer, you wish that the decisions in W3 had more predictable outcomes?

The outcomes in TW3 weren't predictable?

No, I wish for balance instead of one-sided sentimentality.

[ZombiePopper]

Word. I've never understood the complaints of completionists who look down on a game for being "too big to fully explore" OR the most baffling: "there's too much content for me to 100% it".
.

I tend to suffer from completionist leanings myself, but I'm not hampered by it though.
Meaning,
I'm okay if game % is 80, for example.
But anytime I see a marker on a map I tend to want to go to it....But if it becomes a grind I just move on.
I agree,
When I hear gamers say anything along the lines of "to big" or "to much content" etc. I always cringe.
What's a dev to infer from these comments?
"Fans say its to big, sooo let's cut content, reduce the environments, remove story/characters, etc."

[Mcfly616]

 

I love the music there as well. I'd sometimes stop and just listen to it.

 I'm right there with ya. I kept sailing on for hours in my little boat, instead of fast travelling everywhere.

[blahblahblah]

 

Yes they have. They have irrefutably been caught feeding misinformation, lying, and forging fake reviews in the past. Both EA and Bioware.

By that logic, every game that was release since DAO was all forged by EA including game awards.

 

LOL, and do you think CDPR is a saint? I think you are delusional fanboy. 

[Zekka]

Gothic 2 is worth seeking out, but be prepared for it to look and sound really dated.

Gothic 3 and 4 are not suitable substitutes.

Gothic 4 is a spin off so we can ignore it. I have heard that Gothic 3 with the fan mod is great but from the hour I played, ti didn't feel very nice.

 

 

 Nobody ever said it did. Some people just think CDPR did it better.

well, have you played Gothic 2?

 

 

Well he is right in that TW3 didn't exactly invent the wheel. Also, I think I need to play Gothic 2. See what all the fuss is about. LOL. 

You should play Gothic 1 first. I'd say that the setting and story is quite interesting for an rpg, Gothic 2 has a more typical setting and story but it isn't worse because it handles being an open world game better and nearly everything in it is better than Gothic 1. It also has a great expansion pack that increases the difficulty of the game into an even higher point.

[Gwydden]

Which was much easier and safer...

I'm sorry, what? I haven't played any of The Witcher games, but my entire experience with speculative fiction suggests the exact opposite. Hell, look at freaking Bioware. Why do they always use the exact same formula for every single one of their games? Because it is easier. And safer. And that formula couldn't be farther away from a personal story. The only time they did try was DA2, and boy, as much as I love them for trying, was that a bad time for innovation.

[London]

I honestly wish ME:A would be a tighter experience such as ME2 and ME3. The 40 to 50 hours I got out of them was more than enough. If they want to get bigger maybe up to 80 hours of quality, story-driven content would be great. I am perfect,u happy getting to see exotic locales In this context over slogging around like in DAI or even ME1 on the mako.

If we have to suffer though another open world, then taking cues from the Witcher can't hurt. I'm not a Witcher fan despite owning 2 and 3, but I can see how their ideas would improve games with characters I actually like.

[Wolfman]

I didn't read through this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone.

Suggestions based on TW3:

1. Do not ditch cinematic conversations like DAI somewhat did. TW3 did a fantastic job with this.

2. Not every non-elderly female has to look like a sexy supermodel (sorry Witcher 3, but i found that too hard to believe. Was a little game breaking...)

[KotorEffect3]

Bioware should just use the shepard trilogy to develop MEA.  The Witcher games are overrated by an overzealous fanatical fanbase.

[MissOuJ]

When I hear gamers say anything along the lines of "to big" or "to much content" etc. I always cringe.
What's a dev to infer from these comments?
"Fans say its to big, sooo let's cut content, reduce the environments, remove story/characters, etc."

 

I would agree - if side quest stuffing wasn't something that RPGs have always done and have continued to do to artificially lengthen the game and hide how thinly the main content of the game is spread. In my experience, when I or others say "the game is too big", it usually means "the game / the quests are tedious" - for example: as much as I like DA:I, there are times when I trigger a quest and I go "Oh no, not this thing again!", but I still end up doing it because, from a role playing perspective, that's something my character would not not do, or because I know I'll need the resources / loot from that quest later on. However, "choosing" to do it in this situation just makes me resent the(se) quest(s) more because they feel like busy work - because, let's face it, they kinda are - and that naturally affects my enjoyment of the game.

 

Look at Kingdoms of Amalur, for example: they had a really interesting setting, unique lore (well, as unique as a fantasy RPG in these days can have, at least), and really nice environments and beautiful art design. But instead of capitalizing on those aspects and delivering a handful of unique areas and utilising those areas to flesh out the world and the PC (something that the game desperately needs), the game is full of "kill X baddies and deliver their innards to the city guard for gold" -style time waster side quests so they can say in the box art and in the interviews that the game has "over a hundred hours of content". They could have used at least some of those resources to flesh out the NPC's that get the most screen time (Agarth, Alyn, Hugues and so on) and develop some sort of relationship with them, or develop the whole "we are a nation at war" -thing they have going on, or their religious practices and the whole Faithweaving aspect of the world (particularly since the last one is really firmly tied into the plot and the ending of the game).

 

Of course YMMV, but I would choose quality over quantity any day, even if that would mean significantly fewer areas and environments and shorter playthroughs. But as long as we (as in gamers and customers) are more interested in how "long" the game is and use that measuring stick to value our games, quality over quantity is not a smart choice to make. Of course I'd rather have lots and lots of quality content, but since that's usually not possible without raising the retail price of the game sky high, I'd gladly trade Hissing Wastes, the Forbidden Oasis and the whole Shards quest line in its entirety to more follower content or a couple smaller side quests which have a bit more robust story lines than "save the villagers" or "kill demon".

[RepHope]

Spoiler tagging just in case...

 

Spoiler

The way the ending plays out at least as far as Ciris fate goes hinges upon how much you push for the decisions that drive her in a direction were she believes in herself, and have to handle things on her own, more so than a single snowball fight. Its actually 5-6 decisions points in addition there. Same thing goes with the meeting with the lodge afterwards, if you send her in there alone it has a positive effect, but a negative one if you go in there and handle it with her in the background.

 

In regards to the snowball fight, you have two options there, one is trying to cheer her up with some fun and the other is telling her she doesn't need to to be good at everything, you can probably figure out which one is the most positive there.

 

The choices might seem random but there's very deliberate reasoning behind them if actually thinking about it.

 

The witcher series does choice and consequence differently than bioware throughout all the games, which is that choices often don't have obvious results right off the bat and once you see what its changing you've progressed further into the game and is committed to it, which is a deterrent to save scumming for optimal results.

My favorite choice and consequence they did differently than Bioware was the romances. Try to play Geralt as the typical Bioware protagonist and prepare to get wrecked. Ahhhh the forums were fun when people got to that little scene.

 

The outcomes in TW3 weren't predictable?

No, I wish for balance instead of one-sided sentimentality.

Definitely a lot harder to predict than Bioware, since so many people go Ciri killed. Freeing the tree spirit was another one, and a choice that no matter what you do, it's hard to say which outcome is "better".

 

With Bioware, chose the upper dialogue option and you will never lose. I think the only paragon choices that backfired were Rana, which happened offscreen and didn't matter at all, and the rachni queen if you killed her before, which amounted to less War Assets, which again doesn't matter at all. 

[RepHope]

I didn't read through this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone.

Suggestions based on TW3:

1. Do not ditch cinematic conversations like DAI somewhat did. TW3 did a fantastic job with this.

2. Not every non-elderly female has to look like a sexy supermodel (sorry Witcher 3, but i found that too hard to believe. Was a little game breaking...)

 

Definitely does.

Spoiler

The sole, significant variation in the playable epilogue sequence depends on this "morale", which is shaped by choosing to have a snowball fight and ransack a room (among a few other things) instead of, you know, having actual conversations and resisting childish urges. Again, it rewards one approach and punishes another in a very one-sided manner.

I liked that though. You chose what would be the "Paragon" options, calm down, think clearly, and it backfired because Ciri doesn't want someone to tell her how to behave, she's looking for someone to understand how she feels and empower her. You misread the character and got punished for it.

[Mcfly616]

Bioware should just use the shepard trilogy to develop MEA.  The Witcher games are overrated by an overzealous fanatical fanbase.

TW2 and 3 > ME2 and 3

 

 

 

 

Mass Effect is my favorite videogame series alongside Halo. I can admit when someone makes a better game than my favorite games.