288 réponses à ce sujet

[Majestic Jazz]

You neglected to mention the fixed protag. Any potential customer who doesn't feel drawn to playing Geralt isn't going to be interested in the games.

As to your list of "everything that is wrong with society today", I'd like to suggest that people who actually deal with that stuff in day-to-day life might like to escape it in their escapist fantasy.

 

1) Just because a game has a fixed protagonist does not make it a bad game. In fact, some of the best games of the past few years have had fixed protagonist. Uncharted, The Last of Us, Halo, GTA5 etc all do not have the option to create your character. People act like having a fixed protagonist is a new thing and that videogames since the very beginning have ALWAYS given you the option to create your character and thus games that do not have this feature is a game lacking quality. 

 

2) Deal with what stuff in day to day life? What exact content did TW3 have that made you feel uncomfortable? 

[Element Zero]

The other reason I didn't like TW3, was Geralt's chasing after a woman who left without saying anything to him. I don't care what reason she had, she left him and his whole journey was to find this witch hag. Someone left you, they aren't worth your time. This is why I love, yet hate Solas in DAI.

I'm guessing you didn't know much about the backstory to the series before playing? Most English speakers haven't read the novels, I know.

To say that the "witch hag" had left him without saying anything, and thus was clearly not worth his time... I'm guessing you didn't progress very far in the game? The "witch hag" is his adopted daughter, who is likewise striving to be reunited with Geralt. Expounding any further upon the relationship or story is needless, right now. I just found this description very, very silly.

The rest of your post was refreshing; especially given the usually unbending, if understandable, stances taken by many around here.

[Seboist]

You neglected to mention the fixed protag. Any potential customer who doesn't feel drawn to playing Geralt isn't going to be interested in the games.

As to your list of "everything that is wrong with society today", I'd like to suggest that people who actually deal with that stuff in day-to-day life might like to escape it in their escapist fantasy.

 

Since when is Shepard not a fixed protagonist? Are we still pretending that there's a lick difference between paragon vs renegade or male shep vs femshep or that the game isn't linear and railroaded at a moment's notice?

 

I seem to recall being able to play as a human nationalist Shepard in ME1, only for all that to be completely ignored and "my" Shepard being reduced to some blubbering goober whose sole motivation is to "smash reapahs". Oh and backgrounds were ignored in that too.

[Majestic Jazz]

Because they're different games, simple as that. They work differently.

 

I really hope you are just trolling. 

 

The main difference is that TW3 is a single character story while DAI is a hero+companions story. However, that does not mean that Bioware cannot look at TW3 to see how to use better animations, open world immersion/design, side-quest design etc.

 

Sorry, but what you say does not make sense. Welcome to the real world. Do you honestly think that Bioware/EA will not look externally to other games for inspiration? Do you honestlly think that Bioware/EA will not take other games, put them on the board and compare them with their own games to see where they can improve and do better? I mean hell, they did it with Skyrim and DAO/DA2 was NOTHING like any Elder Scrolls game and yet they looked to it for inspiration. Mass Effect is NOTHING like Gears of War and yet Bioware looked to Gears of War as well as other shooters for inspiration in making ME2 and yet GOW is a core 3rd person shooter taking place in a post-war setting while ME is a sci-fi space action-RPG.

 

Even outside of videogames it happens. SeaWorld is way different than DisneyWorld, and yet I doubt Disney does not see SeaWorld as a threat in a way and this will look at SeaWorld to see how they can do better? I mean, look at what they did with Animal Kingdom? Even SeaWorld took measures to make their park more attractive to some of the thrill-ride seeking visitors by adding rides like Journey to the Atlantis and the Krakkon/Mantras roller coasters. So this is a business thing.

 

So again, while you cannot 100% compare TW3 and DAI line by line/item by item. You CAN compare certain or particular aspects about the games that they BOTH share and they do share some things such as open world quest, customization (item & character), dialog, and cut-scene animations/design.

[SnakeCode]

Since when is Shepard not a fixed protagonist? Are we still pretending that there's a lick difference between paragon vs renegade or male shep vs femshep or that the game isn't linear and railroaded at a moment's notice?

 

I seem to recall being able to play as a human nationalist Shepard in ME1, only for all that to be completely ignored and "my" Shepard being reduced to some blubbering goober whose sole motivation is to "smash reapahs". Oh and backgrounds were ignored in that too.

 

Seems all people mean by non-fixed protagonist is being able to choose the genitalia of said character and the genitalia of the character they want to bang.

[WildOrchid]

So again, while you cannot 100% compare TW3 and DAI line by line/item by item. You CAN compare certain or particular aspects about the games that they BOTH share and they do share some things such as open world quest, customization (item & character), dialog, and cut-scene animations/design.

 

This is what I meant mostly (I just didn't explain it better), even if they belong to the same genre, they will still remain different in customization and other things such as gameplay, even if they do take some inspiration from other games. That was my point.

 

What DAI lacks and Witcher does it perfectly is how its maps still have some good side quests, more lively NPCs and not boring fetch quests and empty maps. I will say that they should take examples from TW3 on how open world works.

[Kierro Ren]

I'm guessing you didn't know much about the backstory to the series before playing? Most English speakers haven't read the novels, I know.

To say that the "witch hag" had left him without saying anything, and thus was clearly not worth his time... I'm guessing you didn't progress very far in the game? The "witch hag" is his adopted daughter, who is likewise striving to be reunited with Geralt. Expounding any further upon the relationship or story is needless, right now. I just found this description very, very silly.

The rest of your post was refreshing; especially given the usually unbending, if understandable, stances taken by many around here.

 

Um, Yennefer isn't his adopted daughter, that's Ciri. I ment he was so focused on finding Yennefer, that he trys get back with her even after she ran off. To me, if your lover runs off, they aren't worth your time. Even the "To keep you safe, that's why I didn't tell you" idea, is a cop out. Because, one thing said during a marriage is "In the sickness and health. In the good and the bad, so long as you both shall live." To me, Geralt just wanted some tail... kinda like a medieval James Bond. I mean, if people like TW3      b :Dd Awsome!! But, it didn't work for me is all.

 

As for your ender, how do you mean refreshing?

[Zekka]

Are we going to act like Witcher 3 didn't get inspiration from somewhere?
Bio should look at gothic 2 and their past games.

[Element Zero]

Um, Yennefer isn't his adopted daughter, that's Ciri. I ment he was so focused on finding Yennefer, that he trys get back with her even after she ran off. To me, if your lover runs off, they aren't worth your time. Even the "To keep you safe, that's why I didn't tell you" idea, is a cop out. Because, one thing said during a marriage is "In the sickness and health. In the good and the bad, so long as you both shall live." To me, Geralt just wanted some tail... kinda like a medieval James Bond. I mean, if people like TW3      b :Dd Awsome!! But, it didn't work for me is all.
 
As for your ender, how do you mean refreshing?

I did wonder if you meant Yen. Personally, I'd go with Triss in a second, even if she was a bit shady. I kept Geralt with Yen, though, since there's no way Geralt of the novels leaves Yen. I was glad to see his faith in her rewarded, in the end. In both the novels and games Geralt is regularly mocked for putting up with Yen's BS.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Which characters were homophobic and misogynist? Name them.

 

I'd say the Bloody Baron was misogynist, though he clearly isn't a character you're supposed to like. Homophobia didn't seem to be much of an issue, as there just weren't many gay characters. I came across one fairly early in the game who I think had been kicked out of his community (I can't recall if it was for being gay or for something else), and you can have Geralt respond sympathetically. From what I can tell about the social mores, I'm guessing that many gay people would be lying low to avoid being stigmatized. 

 

The one thing I will say is that at times, I'd have liked to have more of an option to say *something* about the seemingly rampant cruelty and suffering in general, such as the way most peasants and impoverished city-dwellers live compared to the wealthier sections of Novigrad, or the prevalent use of torture and executions. Having beggars all over Novigrad without ever giving Geralt the chance to try to help them or inquire about their situation seemed like an odd choice, given that Geralt can stick his nose into all kinds of other situations that don't necessarily impact him directly. I get that the Witcher takes place in a Crapsack World (to borrow a term from TV Tropes), but sometimes it seemed like the game was deliberately throwing it in my face rather than simply letting me react to it.

 

That said, I do agree that it's a better game than DA:I, and having Geralt be just one of many important "players" instead of the Only One Who Can Save Us (like Shepard, the Warden, or the Inquisitor) made exploration, sidequests, and slower pacing feel more natural than they sometimes do in Bioware games.

[FlyingSquirrel]

>didn't play TW3

>says this

 

Really now? At least play the game before you judge. And boring characters? Please, the women in W3 were amazing. The game has a lot of great characters.

 

The female characters were well-written, though some of their outfits were a bit ridiculous. If nothing else, you'd think that someone like Keira Metz would dress a little more modestly when she's in Velen to avoid attracting too much attention.

[Mcfly616]

And why are we comparing Witcher 3 and ME? They're not even in the same genre.

 yes they are. They're both choice-based narrative focused games. TW3 just so happens to take place in an open world. 

[Chealec]

...

Never look at CDPR on how to do combat, they don't know what they're doing in that regard and I still don't see how people ignore this part.

 

Ummmm... I actually really like the combat in TW3 for a swords and sorcery RPG; totally irrelevant to a Mass Effect game of course (guns) or even a Dragon Age game because you're only ever controlling Geralt rather than a group of people.

 

Where I think BioWare could draw inspiration from TW3 is simply in making the world feel alive, where every location is unique and assets are not massively re-used everywhere. The little details like the fact that NPCs will defend their camps from wolves even when Geralt isn't there or the fact that predators will hunt prey. The way NPCs comments in an area change as you help them; from the initial mutterings of "Freak" to "If I have a son, I'll call him Geralt" - doesn't need to be that extreme though.

 

The quests that are fleshed out and well realised even if they're just 5 minute side-quests - CDPR manage to disguise the go here, fetch that and come back type of quests pretty well for the most part - even add some humour to the most obvious of them ("Princess in distress" for instance). Most of the side-quests also don't break immersion, you're a professional monster slayer so you'd expect to take a job to go and slay a monster - though it rarely works out quite that simply, it's like a swords and sorcery detective novel at times... and that's all good IMO.

 

 

BioWare don't need to attempt to recreate the Witcher's morality, setting, combat or anything else - but they could take some queues from CDPR in how to make a world feel lived in, like you're a part of it rather than some kind of messianic epicentre, and how it reacts to the actions you take even if it's only subtly. How to make quests feel part of your life and that world.

 

If ME:A works out to be basically like ME3 with a more grounded protagonist and manages to take tips from CDPR on quests and making the world feel alive, it will be possibly be one of the best games ever made.

 

 

... bear in mind though, TW3 did cost upwards of $80 million to make.

[FKA_Servo]

yes they are. They're both choice-based narrative focused games. TW3 just so happens to take place in an open world.

With a fixed single protagonist, and twitchy action gameplay. They both might fall under the broad, vaguely defined genre, but they're as different as they can possibly be otherwise.

There's undeniably overlap, but I can still think of a dozen reasons why a witcher fan might not want to play Dragon Age and vice versa. The two I mention may understandably be deal breakers.

[Steelcan]

The female characters were well-written, though some of their outfits were a bit ridiculous. If nothing else, you'd think that someone like Keira Metz would dress a little more modestly when she's in Velen to avoid attracting too much attention.

well she IS trying to seduce Geralt for her own reasons

[Gago]

One thing I dislike about Witcher is its fans and that is because of Gamespot.

[FKA_Servo]

One thing I dislike about Witcher is its fans and that is because of Gamespot.

 

Sometimes a game's greatest fan is its worst possible spokesperson. This is doubly true for Witcher fans on the BSN.

 

In all fairness, I also believe much the same thing about Bioware fans on the BSN.

[Mcfly616]

With a fixed single protagonist, and twitchy action gameplay. 

 I'm comparing ME and TW3. I don't play Dragon Age. I'd say since one deals with guns and the other deals with swords, the action is obviously different. But ME is no less "twitchy". Combat was quite smooth imo.

 

As far as fixed protagonist, the only thing "fixed" is his face and the color of his hair. Other than that, Geralt has alot more expressive personality range than Shepard ever did.

[Mcfly616]

In the end it really doesn't matter. They took inspiration from Skyrim due to its massive success and hype. They will certainly do the same thing with TW3 for the same exact reasons. Only TW3 has alot more in common with Bioware's approach to games than Skyrim ever did.

[FKA_Servo]

 I'm comparing ME and TW3. I don't play Dragon Age. I'd say since one deals with guns and the other deals with swords, the action is obviously different. But ME is no less "twitchy". Combat was quite smooth imo.

 

As far as fixed protagonist, the only thing "fixed" is his face and the color of his hair. Other than that, Geralt has alot more expressive personality range than Shepard ever did.

 

Derp. You're right, I'm just so used to people making the one comparison that I was just assuming. ME to TW is a valid comparison.

 

Geralt is changeable enough, as I've granted. And he certainly has a more complex personality then Shepard, but I'd say he consequently has less range - he's deliberately written in a certain way, as much as a companion or an NPC would be. Shepard (and the Inquisitor, and the Warden, and most Bioware protags, for that matter) might need some headcanon to flesh them out a little bit. There's nothing wrong with that, even though I know that it's not to everyone's taste.

 

In any event, Hawke is a good example of a reasonably "fixed" custom protagonist with decent range. It certainly shows it can work just fine with a character creator and gender choice. Especially around here with TW3 fever, I don't think people tend to give these things the credit they're due - they can and do make a huge difference to all sorts of players.

[MrFob]

Well, BioWare sent a message to CDPR, back in May congratulating them on the release of TW3, so I am sure they are aware of the game. I do hope they take a good look at TW3, its strengths and its flaws, as well as other games and that in the end, they will make their own game, taking lessons learned into account to give us a good experience. Ultimately though, I believe the deciding factor will be how BW themselves decide to design their game.They may let themselves be inspired in terms of some details maybe (and TW3 was good in some of those that they might adapt) but in general, I think ME:A will stand on its own, also because gameplay and scenario are very different to most other RPGs out there.

[rashie]

Never look at CDPR on how to do combat, they don't know what they're doing in that regard and I still don't see how people ignore this part.

Despite the somewhat sluggish movement before they patched it, Witcher 3 does melee combat a fair deal better than Bioware did in Dragon Age, much of that is coming from the game not being as confused about what it want to achieve, its an action rpg game, there is no in-between trying to please two groups of demographics all at once, and is thus able to provide much more depth to mechanics such as sword hits, dodging, rolling, parrying, on the fly spell use and so on without breaking the other mode.

 

They absolutely shouldn't lift mechanics right out of Witcher 3 or copy them but there is something to be said there about having a tighter gameplay focus, and not targeting two wildly separate demographics at the same time all in the same game.

[Bizantura]

CDPR will adhere to the simple law of commerce and the biggest market is the US not the rest of the world.  So what is unique to the witcher series will vanish what allready has happened to the series progression from 1 - 3.

 

Being specifically lots of gay-lesbian input, bland protagonist without personality acting out hero fantasy, no more nude, so the usual american fanfare that there games portray.  The problem I have with that is not that american/canadian game studio's do that, it is there culture after all and have every right to but that the rest of the word have to adhere to the same culture preferences and looked upon as barbarians if there culture is different.

 

So much for the "diversity" if every culture must be the same or else.

[Element Zero]

As I mentioned earlier unthread, I haven't been around much since shortly after the DAI release. I missed this supposed invasion of TW3 supporters that seems to have brought so much angst to the forums.

This post isn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just a collection of thoughts I had as I was catching up on this thread. I read the one comment about "Witcher fans", and it got a few agreements. I assume there were some pretty obnoxious, vocal idiots roving about, making it their business to force TW3 into every conversation. I get it. The same thing happens everyday on NFL.com. It kind of makes me hate certain teams about whom I'd otherwise be ambivalent.

I think you guys need to remember, though, that many of those "Witcher fans" are also "BioWare fans". These are the same type of games, aimed at the same market, regardless of whether every single individual within these niches feels compelled to buy both studios' offerings.

I love Mass Effect. It's my favorite series of all time. DA is also a fine franchise. Personally, I think TW3 is a much better game than any single game from among those series. That's just my opinion. It doesn't mean I love it more, and it doesn't mean I expect you to agree. Mass Effect remains my most beloved game (I consider it one big, awesome whole), but TW3 is an incredibly well made product. Of course I'd want the future ME games to reach or exceed such standards.

Rather than let the obnoxious behavior of a handful of Internet idiots cloud your judgment, remember that some of the Witcher crowd is also the Mass Effect crowd and the Dragon Age crowd and so on... These games are not so different. Many of the same people are playing them.

There is a smaller subset, none of whom seem to be here in this thread, who seem to think you can't be a fan of both TW3 and BioWare games. I wonder if they allow themselves more than one friend? I think most of these were the fans who were eager to defend DAI against all criticisms, justified or not. I'm sure they were ready and waiting as the hands-on comparisons to TW3 started to happen. I understand the comparisons should have limits, but they should also be welcomed and accepted within those limits. "Welcoming and accepting" are not this forum's strong points.

Oh, well. I went way off in left field. Long story short, as a fan of both TW and ME, yes BioWare should learn from any and all well made games.

[Schmonozov]

Careful, alot of forum-goers have a hate-boner for the witcher and CDPR