288 réponses à ce sujet

[Element Zero]

Careful, alot of forum-goers have a hate-boner for the witcher and CDPR

I know. It's both sad and silly. They made a great game. I can't comprehend why that bothers people here so much. It doesn't make BioWare less special.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I know. It's both sad and silly. They made a great game. I can't comprehend why that bothers people here so much. It doesn't make BioWare less special.

 

I think it has more to do with the fact that people get tired of hearing about The Witcher, a completely different series, on the Bioware forums on a regular basis.

 

 

Just as a comparison, I love the Elder Scrolls games, but even I'd get tired of seeing "Andromeda should be like Oblivion" threads every day, every week.

[Mcfly616]

Careful, alot of forum-goers have a hate-boner for the witcher and CDPR

 Most of them haven't even played it either. They're just mad that so many other BSN users were impressed with it and brought their opinions to the forums in order to let Bioware know that taking inspiration from it could prove to be a good thing. 

[FKA_Servo]

 Most of them haven't even played it either. They're just mad that so many other BSN users were impressed with it and brought their opinions to the forums in order to let Bioware know that taking inspiration from it could prove to be a good thing. 

 

Or they're justifiably concerned that Bioware's takeaway might be exactly the wrong thing. I believe the "Skyrim" influence on DAI is generally regarded as pernicious, and as much as I love Bioware, I don't expect them to release a game that doesn't egregiously screw something up. It doesn't help that the attitude held by a lot of TW's proponents here is about as condescending as it can get.

 

That being said, I'll admit that Mass Effect is solidly an action/RPG as well (like TW games), but even that doesn't appeal to a lot of the players here who prefer BG and DA (you yourself mentioned you don't play DA - my assumption is because you're not a fan of the gameplay, but feel free to correct me). I don't need to try a FIFA game to know it doesn't interest me. The players who skip the Witcher - for good reasons usually - might be missing out on something great, but nothing worldchanging (particularly true if they're skipping the first two games). Just a really good game, and there are lots of those.

[Pasquale1234]

1) Just because a game has a fixed protagonist does not make it a bad game.

I didn't say that it was - only that it's one reason why it might not appeal to some potential customers.
 

2) Deal with what stuff in day to day life? What exact content did TW3 have that made you feel uncomfortable?

You're the one who created the list. I've not played any of the TW games, and have no intention of doing so.

[Zekka]

Ummmm... I actually really like the combat in TW3 for a swords and sorcery RPG; totally irrelevant to a Mass Effect game of course (guns) or even a Dragon Age game because you're only ever controlling Geralt rather than a group of people.

Where I think BioWare could draw inspiration from TW3 is simply in making the world feel alive, where every location is unique and assets are not massively re-used everywhere. The little details like the fact that NPCs will defend their camps from wolves even when Geralt isn't there or the fact that predators will hunt prey. The way NPCs comments in an area change as you help them; from the initial mutterings of "Freak" to "If I have a son, I'll call him Geralt" - doesn't need to be that extreme though.

The quests that are fleshed out and well realised even if they're just 5 minute side-quests - CDPR manage to disguise the go here, fetch that and come back type of quests pretty well for the most part - even add some humour to the most obvious of them ("Princess in distress" for instance). Most of the side-quests also don't break immersion, you're a professional monster slayer so you'd expect to take a job to go and slay a monster - though it rarely works out quite that simply, it's like a swords and sorcery detective novel at times... and that's all good IMO.


BioWare don't need to attempt to recreate the Witcher's morality, setting, combat or anything else - but they could take some queues from CDPR in how to make a world feel lived in, like you're a part of it rather than some kind of messianic epicentre, and how it reacts to the actions you take even if it's only subtly. How to make quests feel part of your life and that world.

If ME:A works out to be basically like ME3 with a more grounded protagonist and manages to take tips from CDPR on quests and making the world feel alive, it will be possibly be one of the best games ever made.


... bear in mind though, TW3 did cost upwards of $80 million to make.

I've only played TW1 & 2 so I have low expectations for TW3 combat. I feel like there are enough open world games that feel "alive" that they don't have to look at TW3 in that regard except if TW3 introduced some new standard that I've yet to see.

I don't know the budget of the average Bioware game but it would be weird if a smaller company like CDPR outspent them

[FlyingSquirrel]

well she IS trying to seduce Geralt for her own reasons

 

Does she have that revealing dress on when Geralt first finds her talking to the villagers? I can't remember now.

[The Hierophant]

Some detailed hairstyles along with a physics engine that don't look like a pile of **** stacked on top of the pc's head would be nice.

[SolNebula]

I think it has more to do with the fact that people get tired of hearing about The Witcher, a completely different series, on the Bioware forums on a regular basis.

 

 

Just as a comparison, I love the Elder Scrolls games, but even I'd get tired of seeing "Andromeda should be like Oblivion" threads every day, every week.

 

Well considering we don't have any new ME game to debate about in this section of the forum it's bound to happen. Adding that I would gladly take threads like this one discussing how other RPGs can influence BW positively instead of the same threads EVERY DAY about LI, equal quotas, the representation of woman in videogames and insert any other liberal rant you can get. Those threads can get tiresome too after a while.

[RZIBARA]

Bruh, i've seen people on here say ME2 is better than Gears in terms of TPS mechanics and unironically slamming JRPGs for being linear/railroaded while praising ME. The lack of self-awareness and ignorance on the part of this rabble is something to behold.

 

On the subject of women, I always got a kick showing how those "dumb shooters" like Gears and Halo have women in proper gear and how ME's female designs are akin to Dead or Alive's,speaking of which,DOA5 is better at it's genre than ME1 and 2 are at theirs.

 

Ah yes the halo comparison lol, I remember going on about that in my huge thread lol

 

It's also comical to see them bash the MGS games lol

 

Also, The witcher 3 was an infinitely better game than DAI. I dont understand why you have to absolutely hate everything else when you are a fan of something. I actually like the ME games, but I'm not blind to the numerous numerous flaws they have. Bioware fans are pretty sad people. It's hilarious to see them hate a game because it is aparantly homophobic! I got an absolute kick out of that one

[Zekka]

I think it has more to do with the fact that people get tired of hearing about The Witcher, a completely different series, on the Bioware forums on a regular basis.

 

 

Just as a comparison, I love the Elder Scrolls games, but even I'd get tired of seeing "Andromeda should be like Oblivion" threads every day, every week.

Truthfully I think the comparisons have some weight to them. It is no secret that CDPR have probably looked at Bioware's games or have even been heavily influenced by them. After all, TW1 was made on a Bioware Engine and The Witcher 2 almost feels like a Bioware game in design.

There are some things that Bio can learn from CDPR while there are other things that I would expect Bio to already know how to do given their extensive track record and experience in game developing.

[SolNebula]

Ah yes the halo comparison lol, I remember going on about that in my huge thread lol

 

It's also comical to see them bash the MGS games lol

 

Also, The witcher 3 was an infinitely better game than DAI. I dont understand why you have to absolutely hate everything else when you are a fan of something. I actually like the ME games, but I'm not blind to the numerous numerous flaws they have. Bioware fans are pretty sad people. It's hilarious to see them hate a game because it is aparantly homophobic! I got an absolute kick out of that one

 

That's because part of the BW fans are a very opinionated bunch. They discuss gaming like a political debate, TW3 is a republican game BOOOOO....DAI is a democrat game YAY. Seriously it's like that. This explain how they just attack games based on their preconceived notions that those games cater to traditional gamers. Don't bother asking them for gameplay, quest structures or the very reason that as gamers they think TW3 couldn't have a positive effect on BW games. They hate MGS5 or TW3 in the same manner an hardcore democrat despise a republican.....in other words...in an irrational and not based on facts way.

[RZIBARA]

That's because part of the BW fans are a very opinionated bunch. They discuss gaming like a political debate, TW3 is a republican game BOOOOO....DAI is a democrat game YAY. Seriously it's like that. This explain how they just attack games based on their preconceived notions that those games cater to traditional gamers. Don't bother asking them for gameplay, quest structures or the very reason that as gamers they think TW3 couldn't have a positive effect on BW games. They hate MGS5 or TW3 in the same manner an hardcore democrat despise a republican.....in other words...in an irrational and not based on facts way.

 

Couldnt have said it better if I tried. It's also pretty sad that apparently the most important aspect of games to them is whether LGBT crap is in the game or not. It's a goddamn video game for Christs sake. Remember when gameplay was what mattered the most?

[Ahglock]

TW3 has a solid story and quest design.  Heck I think TW1&2 are solid in that regard as well.  I overall dislike the games as I find the game mechanics/combat character building fairly bad.  There are some good things bioware can learn from almost any game, even if it is what not to do.

[RZIBARA]

TW3 has a solid story and quest design.  Heck I think TW1&2 are solid in that regard as well.  I overall dislike the games as I find the game mechanics/combat character building fairly bad.  There are some good things bioware can learn from almost any game, even if it is what not to do.

 

For melee combat, the witcher 3 imo was much better than DAI. It felt weighty, and with the spells it was certainly interesting. 

[Lady Artifice]

That's because part of the BW fans are a very opinionated bunch. They discuss gaming like a political debate, TW3 is a republican game BOOOOO....DAI is a democrat game YAY. Seriously it's like that. This explain how they just attack games based on their preconceived notions that those games cater to traditional gamers. Don't bother asking them for gameplay, quest structures or the very reason that as gamers they think TW3 couldn't have a positive effect on BW games. They hate MGS5 or TW3 in the same manner an hardcore democrat despise a republican.....in other words...in an irrational and not based on facts way.

 

 

Remarkable. Bringing in politics and amateur psychology, seamlessly laced with passive aggression. You make stereotypes look like an art form. 

[Chealec]

CDPR will adhere to the simple law of commerce and the biggest market is the US not the rest of the world....

 

Odd ... The Witcher games are about the most "European" feeling games I've ever played. They capture a more authentic "old world" feeling far better than any other game I've played; far more so than most US based, Disney-fied ideas of what a medieval European fantasy should look like.

 

... and I'd be surprised if the US market was the biggest since there are about twice as many people in the EU.

[Ahglock]

For melee combat, the witcher 3 imo was much better than DAI. It felt weighty, and with the spells it was certainly interesting. 

 

I hated the melee combat.  It was awkward and felt like there was a second delay between when I hit the button and when Geralt springs into action.  Once I got the timing down, it actually got too easy.  I was more magic and bomb focused though, so I could reduce how much I needed to do too a decent degree once leveled up a bit. At least it wasn't like the batman games where you can beat it by just hitting triangle over and over again. I have yet to play a melee type in DAI, but I despised its combat engine where I merely though TW3s was fairly bad overall.

[FKA_Servo]

For melee combat, the witcher 3 imo was much better than DAI. It felt weighty, and with the spells it was certainly interesting.

And Gran Turismo has better driving than Halo 3.

TW3 is an action game, and DA is a real time w/ pause party RPG. There's simply no basis for comparison with regard to the gameplay. Their relative merits are entirely subjective.

[Chealec]

I've only played TW1 & 2 so I have low expectations for TW3 combat. I feel like there are enough open world games that feel "alive" that they don't have to look at TW3 in that regard except if TW3 introduced some new standard that I've yet to see.

I don't know the budget of the average Bioware game but it would be weird if a smaller company like CDPR outspent them

 

Mass Effect 3's budget was about half that of TW3, granted it's an older game ... 500 voice actors in 7 different languages (TW3) probably pushes the spend up a bit There's a lot of voice acting in TW3.

 

TW3 has the best combat system of the series - it's like TW2 but more fluid and allows you to chug potions in combat (as you could in the original Witcher) - forcing you to meditate to use potions in TW2 was a bad move IMO. I actually think the 2nd game is the weakest of the 3 - it's even got bloody closed-room boss fights and quick-time events (both of which I hate).

 

Horses for courses though - there's no way TW3 style loosely twitch-based combat would work in a BioWare game where you have companions you need to order about. I much prefer it to NWN/DA style combat... but it's a trade-off I'll happily make for BioWare's companions. Personally I think The Witcher and Dragon Age games are actually only very superficially similar... they share a swords and sorcery, vaguely medieval European type setting with some fairly standard fantasy RPG tropes but they play and story-tell markedly differently. The Witcher games are about one lone mutant in a fairly close-minded, ignorant and bigoted culture and everything from combat to quests to conversations are geared to that. Dragon Age games are about companions gathering together (in a much more "acceptable" society) to defeat an epic foe... and again, combat, quests and conversations are geared to that.

 

Geralt has companions but they're not as integral to the game as the companions in Dragon Age games are; they're predominantly for shaping Geralt's history and character not for shaping the mechanics of the game. In most ways there's little point in comparing the games.

 

 

As for open world games feeling "alive" ... honestly, I'd be stuck to name another game that does it half as well as TW3 but then I don't actually like "open world" games normally; I couldn't even really get on with The Elder Scrolls games (and I own 3 of them) - I like to know where I'm going and why. What CDPR did well with TW3 was the amount of detail, every location felt believable, had its own character and every building was unique - you could navigate around by "oh, it's over by the wonky house" or "the bridge over the stream outside Crow's Perch". When you entered a new building you knew it was a new building because you didn't recognise it. Lots of little things like dynamic weather, the sheer attention to detail.

 

The balance of quests was just right too ... there was never a point where I really got to thinking "why am I bothering with this?" - you'd have just enough side-quests before being nudged back into the main plot line. I spent nearly 200 hours in TW3 and I'll play-through again once the "Hearts of Stone" expansion is released ... and probably again when "Blood & Wine" is out.

 

Conversely, CDPR could learn a thing or two from BioWare's characters and conversations.

 

 

You don't have to like The Witcher series, that's fine, but credit where it's due - there are some things CDPR just got almost exactly right IMO.

[Laughing_Man]

And Gran Turismo has better driving than Halo 3.

TW3 is an action game, and DA is a real time w/ pause party RPG. There's simply no basis for comparison with regard to the gameplay. Their relative merits are entirely subjective.

 

DA:I sucks in its own category, and that's despite the fact that it tries its hardest to wink towards more action-oriented RPG's,

as per EA policy to check as many boxes as they can so the game would be more streamlined. (Jack of all trades etc.)

 

Examples: Dumb enemies with big HP pools that only get bigger as you raise the difficulty, dumb base companion AI with no

real option to set tactics, gutted skill system - especially magic, the peculiar 8 ability restriction (perhaps because appearently DA:I

was supposed to be an MMO and they couldn't bother changing it back.), problematic loot Vs. crafting balance, etc.

 

I could probably go on.

 

And that's before even touching the main story, "side-quests", empty world, etc.

 

I wouldn't say that DA:I was a bad game, but it was a mediocre one, and felt like a huge wasted opportunity.

 

TW3 is similar enough to DA:I to draw comparisons between the two. Certainly more similar than Halo and Gran Turismo.

[Zekka]

Mass Effect 3's budget was about half that of TW3, granted it's an older game ... 500 voice actors in 7 different languages (TW3) probably pushes the spend up a bit There's a lot of voice acting in TW3.

 

TW3 has the best combat system of the series - it's like TW2 but more fluid and allows you to chug potions in combat (as you could in the original Witcher) - forcing you to meditate to use potions in TW2 was a bad move IMO. I actually think the 2nd game is the weakest of the 3 - it's even got bloody closed-room boss fights and quick-time events (both of which I hate).

 

Horses for courses though - there's no way TW3 style loosely twitch-based combat would work in a BioWare game where you have companions you need to order about. I much prefer it to NWN/DA style combat... but it's a trade-off I'll happily make for BioWare's companions. Personally I think The Witcher and Dragon Age games are actually only very superficially similar... they share a swords and sorcery, vaguely medieval European type setting with some fairly standard fantasy RPG tropes but they play and story-tell markedly differently. The Witcher games are about one lone mutant in a fairly close-minded, ignorant and bigoted culture and everything from combat to quests to conversations are geared to that. Dragon Age games are about companions gathering together (in a much more "acceptable" society) to defeat an epic foe... and again, combat, quests and conversations are geared to that.

 

Geralt has companions but they're not as integral to the game as the companions in Dragon Age games are; they're predominantly for shaping Geralt's history and character not for shaping the mechanics of the game. In most ways there's little point in comparing the games.

 

 

As for open world games feeling "alive" ... honestly, I'd be stuck to name another game that does it half as well as TW3 but then I don't actually like "open world" games normally; I couldn't even really get on with The Elder Scrolls games (and I own 3 of them) - I like to know where I'm going and why. What CDPR did well with TW3 was the amount of detail, every location felt believable, had its own character and every building was unique - you could navigate around by "oh, it's over by the wonky house" or "the bridge over the stream outside Crow's Perch". When you entered a new building you knew it was a new building because you didn't recognize it. Lots of little things like dynamic weather, the sheer attention to detail.

 

The balance of quests was just right too ... there was never a point where I really got to thinking "why am I bothering with this?" - you'd have just enough side-quests before being nudged back into the main plot line. I spent nearly 200 hours in TW3 and I'll play-through again once the "Hearts of Stone" expansion is released ... and probably again when "Blood & Wine" is out.

 

Conversely, CDPR could learn a thing or two from BioWare's characters and conversations.

 

 

You don't have to like The Witcher series, that's fine, but credit where it's due - there are some things CDPR just got almost exactly right IMO.

I knew a lot of what you typed since I have played games in both series, I really didn't need a refresher. 

 

It seems that Witcher 3 being influenced by Gothic 2 might be true.

[RepHope]

Part of the reason the two get compared is due to the lack of competition in the AAA RPG arena. For a long time it was only Bethesda and Bioware, and those two took completely opposite stances to each other. ES and FO were focused on exploration, living in a sandbox, and suffered from terrible stories and one-note characters. Bioware in contrast made games with a heavy focus on story and characters, but not really allowing you much in the way of exploration.

 

So CDPR will inevitably get compared to both, because it's a AAA RPG company that is trying to compete with Bioware and Bethesda, and like Bioware is known for it's story, not gameplay. You can bet your ass that ME:A and CP2077 will get compared with FO4. There simply isn't a lot of diversity in AAA games, so everything is constantly compared to each other, even if it often doesn't make sense.

 

If it's any consolation, we've got a ton of threads on the CDPR forums, specifically the Cyberpunk forum, where we talk about stuff from Bioware games we'd like to see, and stuff we wouldn't, so everyone is guilty of this

[wolfsite]

What I don't like about both series is the Rabid fanboys who can't accept that people just may not like the game they love and keep trying to force them to agree with there pre-conception that it is the greatest game ever made and has no faults.

 

 

Seriously give it a rest, these games can co-exist together, the companies can co-exist together - hell the developers on both sides get along great with each other. There is no need to constantly nit-pick about what is better in which no matter how different the games are to the point where it is unfair to even compare them.

 

 

Oh wait this is the internet.

[RepHope]

What I don't like about both series is the Rabid fanboys who can't accept that people just may not like the game they love and keep trying to force them to agree with there pre-conception that it is the greatest game ever made and has no faults.

 

 

Seriously give it a rest, these games can co-exist together, the companies can co-exist together - hell the developers on both sides get along great with each other. There is no need to constantly nit-pick about what is better in which no matter how different the games are to the point where it is unfair to even compare them.

 

 

Oh wait this is the internet.

It's funny, because CDPR owes Bioware, specifically the doctors, a lot. They started off translating the BG games. Bioware gave them some of their own space to show off Witcher 1. CDPR devs seem very grateful for what Bioware did for them, and are huge fans of their games.

 

Like you said it's mostly the fans, of which CDPR has quite a few jilted ex-Biodrones so to speak, who solely exist to hate Bioware for DA2 and ME3.