288 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Most of them haven't even played it either. They're just mad that so many other BSN users were impressed with it and brought their opinions to the forums in order to let Bioware know that taking inspiration from it could prove to be a good thing.

I think it has more to do with the partisan "Witcher 3 is golden, DAI is garbage" attitudes taken by so many of them.

Witcher 3 has substantial narrative/pacing problems (especially in Act 3 and involving the Ciri-based variables that dictate the endings) coupled with a lot of character incongruities and a weak political foundation, along with plenty of mindless quest/crafting filler of its own and a highly repetitive blue-collar contract template. But you wouldn't think it based on the comments from the anti-DAI brigade. I think it's a pretty solid experience, but faaaaaar from perfect.

[Zekka]

It's funny, because CDPR owes Bioware, specifically the doctors, a lot. They started off translating the BG games. Bioware gave them some of their own space to show off Witcher 1. CDPR devs seem very grateful for what Bioware did for them, and are huge fans of their games.

 

Like you said it's mostly the fans, of which CDPR has quite a few jilted ex-Biodrones so to speak, who solely exist to hate Bioware for DA2 and ME3.

it's like some of the fanboys forget that these are both companies that are made by gamers that have most likely played games from both companies and liked them.

[Drone223]

When it comes to making choices CDPR does a good job of making sure players make their choices based on their own judgment and have to deal with the consequences of their choice instead of telling them which one is right/wrong. In ME most of the time the player is clearly told which action is the best which undermines players from using their own judgment and the horrid "morality" system doesn't help either. More ambiguous choices and dropping the morality system would help improve the role playing aspect significantly.

[Han Shot First]

While I agree that TW3 is far from perfect, I did find it to be a much better game overall than Dragon Age: Inquisition. A large part of that was the design of side quests in The Witcher 3, the majority of which were as rich in story and interesting characters as the main quests. That element was what I had found was most missing from DA:I. The main quests in DA:I were great, but more often than not I was bored while completing side content, which wasn't an experience I had with TW3.

 

No doubt there are some Witcher or CD Projekt Red fans who would have proclaimed TW3 the superior game no matter how it turned out, just as there are Bioware/DA fans here who will rant about the Witcher series being terrible while simultaneously admitting to not having played it. I'm not sure however that the fanboys in either camp are representative of the majority of gamers who enjoyed either series.

 

I've got no particularly loyalty to any particular game developer and don't understand those who give blind loyalty to companies they don't work for. None of them send me a paycheck and I pay them for their products. I'm just a fan of a good RPG, regardless of who churns it out. On that note I thought Dragon Age: Origins was much better game than the first Witcher, which I thought was mostly terrible.

 

Getting back on topic...

 

If there is one thing about ME:A that I'd like to see similar to The Witcher 3, it would be well executed side quests that are often as rich in story as the main quests, populated with interesting characters, and some that occasionally present the player character with tough choices. I'd also like to see a return to a cinematic focus when the player character engages in dialogue with NPCs. I think dropping the cinematic conversations was one of the elements that made DA:I's side content feel less immersive than similar content in DA:O or DA2.

[Joseph Warrick]

Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion.
 
T.S. Eliot

 

I don't care where Bioware steals from. I only hope Mass Effect itself is something worth stealing from. Since when has Bioware had to catch up to others?

[Karma_Joy]

I'd love to see the same character creation and beautiful landscapes of DAI with the same deep and well written side quests and great side characters of the Witcher 3. Also I think the Witcher 3 had a lot of success with the romance options by having only 2 available in the game, they were able to focus all their writing and design into two great characters rather than several. DAI had several options and you could tell they didn't have the time to give them all the same amount of fan service. Its the same as ME3, several great romance characters didn't get as much attention as others. 

 

Bioware did a great job with DAI, but I hope they learn from some of the mistakes in the next DA or ME.

[Steelcan]

Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion.
 
T.S. Eliot

 

I don't care where Bioware steals from. I only hope Mass Effect itself is something worth stealing from. Since when has Bioware had to catch up to others?

since they started putting out subpar material

[FKA_Servo]

Couldnt have said it better if I tried. It's also pretty sad that apparently the most important aspect of games to them is whether LGBT crap is in the game or not. It's a goddamn video game for Christs sake. Remember when gameplay was what mattered the most?

So, pong?

It's a plot heavy role playing game which prominently features romance subplots. The sort of character you engage in said romance subplot with is bound to be a topic of discussion. It's not like it's going to affect the mechanics of the gameplay in any way. And let's not forget that the content is present because it's in line with Bioware's vision. If you have a problem with its inclusion, you'll need to take a time machine back a dozen years or so.

And honestly it sometimes seems like "lgbt crap" as you charmingly put it is at the forefront only because a small number of people complain loudly and endlessly about it.

[RepHope]

I think it has more to do with the partisan "Witcher 3 is golden, DAI is garbage" attitudes taken by so many of them.

Witcher 3 has substantial narrative/pacing problems (especially in Act 3 and involving the Ciri-based variables that dictate the endings) coupled with a lot of character incongruities and a weak political foundation, along with plenty of mindless quest/crafting filler of its own and a highly repetitive blue-collar contract template. But you wouldn't think it based on the comments from the anti-DAI brigade. I think it's a pretty solid experience, but faaaaaar from perfect.

I do think despite it's flaws that W3 did a much better job with open-world. Considering it was only CDPR's third game, first open-world game, and first time releasing simultaneously on three platforms, I tend to give them more slack. And unlike DAI, where you are constantly built up as this demigod Messiah, and leader of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas, taking on contracts and making your own potions makes sense in W3. They handled fetch quests much better than Bioware did.

 

But what worked for CDPR might not work for Bioware and vice versa. Frankly though I hope CDPR looks to Bioware as they buil Cyberpunk 2077, specifically Origins and ME3, with how to handle different classes (ME3) and introducing players to a world many will not be familiar with (DAO). Looking to Bioware with how to handle a non-set protagonist could also be to their benefit.

[RepHope]

So, pong?

It's a plot heavy role playing game which prominently features romance subplots. The sort of character you engage in said romance subplot with is bound to be a topic of discussion. It's not like it's going to affect the mechanics of the gameplay in any way. And let's not forget that the content is present because it's in line with Bioware's vision. If you have a problem with its inclusion, you'll need to take a time machine back a dozen years or so.

And honestly it sometimes seems like "lgbt crap" as you charmingly put it is at the forefront only because a small number of people complain loudly and endlessly about it.

Not really a fan of how obsessed everyone seems with romances these days. What Weekes said in jest seems to hold true for some people. "Romance sims with a save the world minigame", is unpleasantly close to the truth these days. 

 

But as long as the gameplay is solid and the story isn't Walters repeating ME1 with a swapped out Prothean/Reaper race, I can't complain all that much.

[CronoDragoon]

I know. It's both sad and silly. They made a great game. I can't comprehend why that bothers people here so much. It doesn't make BioWare less special.

 

Yeah, just like everyone bashes Shadowrun on this board.

 

Wait, what? Nobody bashes Shadowrun because obnoxious Shadowrun fans don't create numerous redundant threads explaining why BioWare's games suck and their pet favorite is better?

 

Huh. Funny how that works.

[RepHope]

Yeah, just like everyone bashes Shadowrun on this board.

 

Wait, what? Nobody bashes Shadowrun because obnoxious Shadowrun fans don't create numerous redundant threads explaining why BioWare's games suck and their pet favorite is better?

 

Huh. Funny how that works.

Might want to add don't create threads here to the end of your sentence, because rest assured, Bioware gets bashed pretty much everywhere I've been. They're not very popular at the moment, and that makes them an easy target.

 

Why W3 is the most popular comparison I don't know myself, except that Bioware and CDPR are perceived to be in some sort of "rivalry", maybe a holdover from the W2 vs. DA2 days.

 

Or the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post: There aren't a lot of open-world AAA RPGs to get compared with, even fewer that try to focus on story like Bioware and CDPR do, so the popular ones will always be compared with one another.

[Zekka]

I do think despite it's flaws that W3 did a much better job with open-world. Considering it was only CDPR's third game, first open-world game, and first time releasing simultaneously on three platforms, I tend to give them more slack. And unlike DAI, where you are constantly built up as this demigod Messiah, and leader of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas, taking on contracts and making your own potions makes sense in W3. They handled fetch quests much better than Bioware did.

 

But what worked for CDPR might not work for Bioware and vice versa. Frankly though I hope CDPR looks to Bioware as they buil Cyberpunk 2077, specifically Origins and ME3, with how to handle different classes (ME3) and introducing players to a world many will not be familiar with (DAO). Looking to Bioware with how to handle a non-set protagonist could also be to their benefit.

This is something I am still surprised by even though I haven't played TW3 or DAI. How can both companies work on their first "open world" game and the company that had far less experience was received so much better? I'm also surprised because from what I'm hearing, CDPR also greatly outspent Bioware which is boggling my mind, you would think EA would increase bio's budget seeing how well their games have been selling and how they're transitioning to open world during the open world craze.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But what worked for CDPR might not work for Bioware and vice versa. Frankly though I hope CDPR looks to Bioware as they buil Cyberpunk 2077, specifically Origins and ME3, with how to handle different classes (ME3) and introducing players to a world many will not be familiar with (DAO). Looking to Bioware with how to handle a non-set protagonist could also be to their benefit.

I'm really hoping CDPR does Cyberpunk 2077 well. I'm no fan of the Witcher franchise, but CDPR has potential and cyberpunk games are not very common. Hopefully since they are looking into its roots like having a non-set protagonist that the player can create and that they have one of the founding fathers of the genre working with them it will be good and not just "Witcher set in the future". 

[FKA_Servo]

Why W3 is the most popular comparison I don't know myself, except that Bioware and CDPR are perceived to be in some sort of "rivalry", maybe a holdover from the W2 vs. DA2 days.

 

Those were terrible days.

 

The Witcher 2 fights here might have been more annoying. My perception at the time was that it was mostly younger, dumber Witcher fans who were irate that Bioware didn't save them the trouble of modding in the nudity themselves. Possibly these players are now a few years older and calmer (or their internet usage isn't locked behind parental controls, so they don't need to play games for titillation).

 

It helps that TW3 is actually a decent hill to die on - it's a fantastic game that's a whole lot better than either of its predecessors. I don't think there's a whole lot there that can inform Bioware's future games (other than broadly saying "don't suck. do this right."), apart from taking a look at the variety and depth of the sidequests.

 

At the end of the day, fanboy tribalism continues to be the most distasteful thing in the world.

 

This is something I am still surprised by even though I haven't played TW3 or DAI. How can both companies work on their first "open world" game and the company that had far less experience was received so much better? I'm also surprised because from what I'm hearing, CDPR also greatly outspent Bioware which is boggling my mind, you would think EA would increase bio's budget seeing how well their games have been selling and how they're transitioning to open world during the open world craze.

 

DAI got sidetracked by the engine change midway through development. Bioware (or more realistically EA) does have some questionable priorities (hello, multiplayer). Among other things.

 

It wasn't the smoothest dev cycle.

[Zekka]

I'm really hoping CDPR does Cyberpunk 2077 well. I'm no fan of the Witcher franchise, but CDPR has potential and cyberpunk games are not very common. Hopefully since they are looking into its roots like having a non-set protagonist that the player can create and that they have one of the founding fathers of the genre working with them it will be good and not just "Witcher set in the future". 

Deus Ex exists

 

 

 

DAI got sidetracked by the engine change midway through development. Bioware (or more realistically EA) does have some questionable priorities (hello, multiplayer). Among other things.

 

It wasn't the smoothest dev cycle.

That makes sense but I thought multiplayer didn't have as much dev time as the main game. Engine change is a very big thing though compared to TW3 that used an updated TW2 engine. 

I really hope that by this time, Bioware is getting help from D.I.C.E for their engine now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Deus Ex exists

I know. I said video games of that genre are not very common, not nonexistent. Deus Ex is really the only AAA Cyberpunk game on the market right now. 

[FKA_Servo]

That makes sense but I thought multiplayer didn't have as much dev time as the main game. Engine change is a very big thing though compared to TW3 that used an updated TW2 engine. 

I really hope that by this time, Bioware is getting help from D.I.C.E for their engine now.

 

I still think old gen co-development was a weight around their ankles, too. TW3 didn't waste time on developing for decade old hardware (undoubtedly the right decision in 2015 - and 2014 for that matter). It shows, if you ask me.

[RepHope]

This is something I am still surprised by even though I haven't played TW3 or DAI. How can both companies work on their first "open world" game and the company that had far less experience was received so much better? I'm also surprised because from what I'm hearing, CDPR also greatly outspent Bioware which is boggling my mind, you would think EA would increase bio's budget seeing how well their games have been selling and how they're transitioning to open world during the open world craze.

Trying to do cross-gen was a huge mistake in my opinion. It really hampered what Bioware could do, and the devs agree with me, hence why they dropped last-gen for Descent and Trespasser. Also CDPR had some advantages Bioware didn't. They had a set protagonist, which meant they had less variables to account for then Bioware, being based in Poland meant development was cheaper and they had GoG to sustain them, and they went all in on next-gen.

 

I'm really hoping CDPR does Cyberpunk 2077 well. I'm no fan of the Witcher franchise, but CDPR has potential and cyberpunk games are not very common. Hopefully since they are looking into its roots like having a non-set protagonist that the player can create and that they have one of the founding fathers of the genre working with them it will be good and not just "Witcher set in the future". 

Cyberpunk 2077 will feature non-set protags, a couple members of CDPR have talked about how much harder it is to write for a protagonist that isn't set like Geralt. So I expect female/male choices as well as customizing appearance at the very least.

 

Deus Ex exists

 

 

 

That makes sense but I thought multiplayer didn't have as much dev time as the main game. Engine change is a very big thing though compared to TW3 that used an updated TW2 engine. 

I really hope that by this time, Bioware is getting help from D.I.C.E for their engine now.

Deus Ex isn't what he's looking for, that's got Jensen/Denton who are set protags like Geralt. He's looking for the Bioware protagonist in a cyberpunk setting, full customization over personality and appearance.

[CronoDragoon]

Might want to add don't create threads here to the end of your sentence, because rest assured, Bioware gets bashed pretty much everywhere I've been. They're not very popular at the moment, and that makes them an easy target.

 

Where have you been? RPG Codex is the only place I can think of that goes overboard with the BioWare hate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cyberpunk 2077 will feature non-set protags, a couple members of CDPR have talked about how much harder it is to write for a protagonist that isn't set like Geralt. So I expect female/male choices as well as customizing appearance at the very least.

 

Deus Ex isn't what he's looking for, that's got Jensen/Denton who are set protags like Geralt. He's looking for the Bioware protagonist in a cyberpunk setting, full customization over personality and appearance.

Yeah, I read that. Whether the game does well or not, it will be a good experience for CDPR since it gives them an opportunity to really stretch their wings when it comes to creating and writing protagonists since in the Witcher franchise all the main characters were already established. 

 

I'm fine with set protagonists if they are characters I can connect to and like, though I do prefer characters whom we are able to form. I'm really looking forward to Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. I was just saying I'm hoping CDPR pulls off non-set protagonists well since they are dealing in a franchise that is built on a tabletop RPG, so a player-created character is a staple of that franchise.

[FKA_Servo]

I've gotta say, if I wasn't so easily distracted, I'd be continually salivating for Cyberpunk. Pretty damn excited to see what they come up with.

 

I should really play Human Revolution for that matter. It's been sitting in my steam library for like 3 years now.

[blahblahblah]

Where have you been? RPG Codex is the only place I can think of that goes overboard with the BioWare hate.

Ah RPG Codex, hating Bioware since 2002.

[FKA_Servo]

Ah RPG Codex, hating Bioware since 2002.

 

Where have you been? RPG Codex is the only place I can think of that goes overboard with the BioWare hate.

 

I see them come up a lot. What do they actually like?

[Zekka]

Where have you been? RPG Codex is the only place I can think of that goes overboard with the BioWare hate.

Codex hates Bethesda and Bioware and dislikes CDPR but they hate Bioware in the way that someone in a sort of way like they were betrayed.

I've been seeing people not bash Bioware but say that they're games, especially DA: I aren't very good especially on YouTube and they're always compared to TW3 there,

 

 

Trying to do cross-gen was a huge mistake in my opinion. It really hampered what Bioware could do, and the devs agree with me, hence why they dropped last-gen for Descent and Trespasser. Also CDPR had some advantages Bioware didn't. They had a set protagonist, which meant they had less variables to account for then Bioware, being based in Poland meant development was cheaper and they had GoG to sustain them, and they went all in on next-gen.

 

 

I also forgot about last gen development but when I think about it, EA should have supported Bio better. From what I'm hearing the overall TW3 development costs is even greater than DA:I and TW3 was released on less platforms and is still selling better.