288 réponses à ce sujet

[RepHope]

Where have you been? RPG Codex is the only place I can think of that goes overboard with the BioWare hate.

NeoGaf, IGN, Gamespot, Metacritic, Gamefaqs, really all over. The overwhelming impression I've gotten is that W3 is held in much higher esteem than DAI, and people overwhelmingly think W3 did a better job at open-world. Most people's opinions of DAI is that it wasn't bad enough to hate, but neither was it good enough to praise. It was a 6/10 or 7/10 while W3 was an 8 or a 9.

 

But W3 gets plenty of hate of it's own for it's mediocre gameplay, especially by BB fans.

[Zekka]

I see them come up a lot. What do they actually like?

Obsidian before Pillars of Eternity was released, CDPR before TW2 and Bioware before they started making action games. They like anything that is void of QTE's, lots of cutscenes, lack of gameplay, SJW stuff, pandering, Action elements, selling out etc.

 

They like Gothic 2, BG2, Planescape torment and all those ancient rpg's. I do think that their reputation is justified because a lot of users join just to act like elitist assholes and to irrationally hate on things. Plus, going by their top 70 rpg's the users have a soft spot for Bioware since a lot of Bioware games are on the list but they still openly bash them. 

 

They really dislike Bethesda over all the big 3 western rpg devs though. Bethsoft's reputation there is that at best they've only made one decent game and have never made a good rpg.

 

 

NeoGaf, IGN, Gamespot, Metacritic, Gamefaqs, really all over. The overwhelming impression I've gotten is that W3 is held in much higher esteem than DAI, and people overwhelmingly think W3 did a better job at open-world. Most people's opinions of DAI is that it wasn't bad enough to hate, but neither was it good enough to praise. It was a 6/10 or 7/10 while W3 was an 8 or a 9.

 

But W3 gets plenty of hate of it's own for it's mediocre gameplay, especially by BB fans.

I saw the same thing. When DA:I released it was getting lots of praise but when TW3 released people basically compared the two and say how much better TW3 is, I think this also makes people greatly exaggerate how good TW3 is.

[RepHope]

I see them come up a lot. What do they actually like?

Nothing.

 

Not even kidding, PS:T and the BG games are about it, Everything else is terrible. They hate Bioware for "selling out to the casuals and the gays by making romance sims" nowadays. They hate Bethesda even more. CDPR is merely disliked, and positive opinions of W3 are tolerated, but also mocked.

[blahblahblah]

Obsidian before Pillars of Eternity was released, CDPR before TW2 and Bioware before they started making action games. They like anything that is void of QTE's, lots of cutscenes, lack of gameplay, SJW stuff, pandering, Action elements,selling out etc.

They like Gothic 2.

They are a bunch of grognards who are stuck in 90's rpgs.

[RepHope]

They are a bunch of grognards who are stuck in 90's rpgs.

Or as they like to call themselves "true RPG" fans.

 

Basically if it's new it's ****.

[CronoDragoon]

NeoGaf, IGN, Gamespot, Metacritic, Gamefaqs, really all over. The overwhelming impression I've gotten is that W3 is held in much higher esteem than DAI, and people overwhelmingly think W3 did a better job at open-world. Most people's opinions of DAI is that it wasn't bad enough to hate, but neither was it good enough to praise. It was a 6/10 or 7/10 while W3 was an 8 or a 9.

 

But W3 gets plenty of hate of it's own for it's mediocre gameplay, especially by BB fans.

 

I think you're falling victim to the vocal minority a bit here. DA: I was NeoGAF and Gamespot's readers' RPG of the year for 2014. I definitely agree that The Witcher 3 is held in higher esteem overall, but that isn't the same as BioWare bashing.

 

In general I think it's a problematic mindset that when something better comes along it makes the other thing retrospectively worse. Like, that sounds like a terrible way to evaluate something to me. Additionally, the need to compare every single thing to the way the GOATs did it. Imagine watching a basketball game with someone who compares every player to Michael Jordan. That's often what RPG discussion feels like online (Michael Jordan here being Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape: Torment more than TW3, but the general idea still applies).

[Zekka]

I think you're falling victim to the vocal minority a bit here. DA: I was NeoGAF and Gamespot's readers' RPG of the year for 2014. I definitely agree that The Witcher 3 is held in higher esteem overall, but that isn't the same as BioWare bashing.

 

In general I think it's a problematic mindset that when something better comes along it makes the other thing retrospectively worse. Like, that sounds like a terrible way to evaluate something to me. Imagine watching a basketball game with someone who compares every player to Michael Jordan. That's often what RPG discussion feels like online (Michael Jordan here being Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape: Torment more than TW3, but the general idea still applies).

It's more DA: I bashing than Bioware bashing. Once in a while I see people complain that Bio has taken more of an action approach but it seems in different corners of the internet, Mass Effect gets away with it evident by how many people I saw are excited by ME: Andromeda's announcement. 

[RepHope]

I think you're falling victim to the vocal minority a bit here. DA: I was NeoGAF and Gamespot's readers' RPG of the year for 2014. I definitely agree that The Witcher 3 is held in higher esteem overall, but that isn't the same as BioWare bashing.

 

In general I think it's a problematic mindset that when something better comes along it makes the other thing retrospectively worse. Like, that sounds like a terrible way to evaluate something to me. Imagine watching a basketball game with someone who compares every player to Michael Jordan. That's often what RPG discussion feels like online (Michael Jordan here being Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape: Torment more than TW3, but the general idea still applies).

Maybe. Of course you can turn that around and say that the number of Witcher fans who spend there time bashing Bioware is a vocal minority, which is also true. Bioware isn't held in the same esteem they once were though. You only need to scroll through the comments on any site the ME:A teaser is shown to see that.

It's more DA: I bashing than Bioware bashing. Once in a while I see people complain that Bio has taken more of an action approach but it seems in different corners of the internet, Mass Effect gets away with it evident by how many people I saw are excited by ME: Andromeda's announcement. 

It was a weird mix of people excited and people reiterating that the were done with Bioware F O R E V E R.

[CronoDragoon]

 

I see them come up a lot. What do they actually like?

 

A charitable reading of RPG Codex's tastes is that they enjoy heavy roll-playing systems (that wasn't a spelling error). Complex numbers, diverse stats, complete reliance on said stats to dictate gameplay, that type of thing. An uncharitable reading would be that they like whatever was done by older games and dislike whatever new ones do, which can help explain contradictions like their love for Baldur's Gate I while disliking Inquisition (despite Inquisition simply being a better Baldur's Gate I structurally).

 

The site's forums also have no moderation whatsoever, which has made it a haven for racists, homophobes, and misogynist neckbeards.

[FKA_Servo]

NeoGaf, IGN, Gamespot, Metacritic, Gamefaqs, really all over. The overwhelming impression I've gotten is that W3 is held in much higher esteem than DAI, and people overwhelmingly think W3 did a better job at open-world. Most people's opinions of DAI is that it wasn't bad enough to hate, but neither was it good enough to praise. It was a 6/10 or 7/10 while W3 was an 8 or a 9.

 

But W3 gets plenty of hate of it's own for it's mediocre gameplay, especially by BB fans.

 

My limited experience with those places lead me to believe that they're more infested with trolls than anything else, but I won't argue the point. Honestly, the thought of participating in any sort of gaming community beyond the BSN just makes me tired.

 

I wouldn't argue with the assertion that TW3 does open world better either - not sure who would, since DAI isn't really even an open world game - it's basically like a scaled up BG, it just had really huge boards.

 

TW3's world is terrific though. It's actually the sole reason I ended up playing the series in earnest, and it hasn't disappointed me in that regard. Novigrad is very impressive in particular, and Kaer Morhen is just beautiful. It's a lot of fun to wander through.

 

DAI is beautiful too, though - and obviously wins with environment diversity (and overall atmosphere, since it's deliberately crafted rather than dynamic. I think the weather in TW3 can get a little too thick, personally. Sometimes it's hard to see stuff).

[CronoDragoon]

 

Maybe. Of course you can turn that around and say that the number of Witcher fans who spend there time bashing Bioware is a vocal minority, which is also true. Bioware isn't held in the same esteem they once were though. You only need to scroll through the comments on any site the ME:A teaser is shown to see that.

 

That's probably true, if for no other reason than DA2 and ME3's ending turned a section of BioWare's hardcore fanbase into a bunch of resentful exes, going out with other significant others but still somehow always coming back to how much that old flame is missing them.

 

Still, it's hard to take the BioWare hate seriously when their games are selling as well (or better) than ever. After Dragon Age 2 I heard all about how BW had ruined the franchise, and then DA: I had the best launch of any BioWare game. I'm actually very interested to see ME: A's numbers, because I've read so much on this board about how much ME3's endings "alienated" the "core" fanbase. You can probably guess where I'm placing my bets on that one.

[9TailsFox]

That's probably true, if for no other reason than DA2 and ME3's ending turned a section of BioWare's hardcore fanbase into a bunch of resentful exes, going out with other significant others but still somehow always coming back to how much that old flame is missing them.

 

Still, it's hard to take the BioWare hate seriously when their games are selling as well (or better) than ever. After Dragon Age 2 I heard all about how BW had ruined the franchise, and then DA: I had the best launch of any BioWare game. I'm actually very interested to see ME: A's numbers, because I've read so much on this board about how much ME3's endings "alienated" the "core" fanbase. You can probably guess where I'm placing my bets on that one.

What do you expect us to do? Where is literally less than 10 to select from AAA games. It's like 4-5 games a year at best.

[Zekka]

 

 

 

 

A charitable reading of RPG Codex's tastes is that they enjoy heavy roll-playing systems (that wasn't a spelling error). Complex numbers, diverse stats, complete reliance on said stats to dictate gameplay, that type of thing. An uncharitable reading would be that they like whatever was done by older games and dislike whatever new ones do, which can help explain contradictions like their love for Baldur's Gate I while disliking Inquisition (despite Inquisition simply being a better Baldur's Gate I structurally).

 

The site's forums also have no moderation whatsoever, which has made it a haven for racists, homophobes, and misogynist neckbeards.

 

I thought they disliked BG1 and thought BG2 was "the good one"

[CronoDragoon]

I thought they disliked BG1 and thought BG2 was "the good one"

 

They hold BG2 in higher esteem, but BG1 was still like #15 or something on their Top 70 CRPG list.

[rashie]

I see them come up a lot. What do they actually like?

The codex bashes everything and everyone, but people should really understand its a different demographic over there than on bioware forums more so than blind hate, that is primarily composed of hardcore cRPG enthusiasts, if you are not one of those a lot of their opinions on stuff is going to come across as jarring.

 

That means they want games that are heavy on the choice and consequence not afraid of punishing people for making stupid decisions, particularly so in the character stats, spells choice, tactics and equipment and so on, as well as featuring heavily stat based gameplays and rolls systems seen in D&D.

[kensaileo]

 

 

 

I also forgot about last gen development but when I think about it, EA should have supported Bio better. From what I'm hearing the overall TW3 development costs is even greater than DA:I and TW3 was released on less platforms and is still selling better.

“ TW3 development costs is even greater than DA:I”？  Source please

[Seboist]

The codex bashes everything and everyone, but people should really understand its a different demographic over there than on bioware forums more so than blind hate, that is primarily composed of hardcore cRPG enthusiasts, if you are not one of those a lot of their opinions on stuff is going to come across as jarring.

 

That means they want games that are heavy on the choice and consequence not afraid of punishing people for making stupid decisions, particularly so in the character stats, spells choice, tactics and equipment and so on, as well as featuring heavily stat based gameplays and rolls systems seen in D&D.

 

Also, contrary to what some emotionally fragile BW fans think, the 'dex isn't some hive mind and there are a number of users that enjoyed BW's more recent offerings(like ME2 and 3), while being aware of their flaws. I would know, as I'm one of them.

[Flog the Undying]

The witcher 3 received money from the government, obviously they have the capacity to include more content.

 

Comparisons such as 'better side quests' or 'better animations' are fairly pointless because CD projekt red has more money to delegate to such things. Saying witcher's romances are more 'natural' is also a pointless complaint, as that is only workable when you have a more set character, which Bioware's games don't have on purpose to allow more personal input from the player on that front.

[SolNebula]

The witcher 3 received money from the government, obviously they have the capacity to include more content.

 

Comparisons such as 'better side quests' or 'better animations' are fairly pointless because CD projekt red has more money to delegate to such things. Saying witcher's romances are more 'natural' is also a pointless complaint, as that is only workable when you have a more set character, which Bioware's games don't have on purpose to allow more personal input from the player on that front.

 

Money from the government? LMAO hard to believe and even IF it's the case you would imagine that a global multinational corporation such as EA has double the budget of poor (in an affectionate way) Poland.

[rashie]

Money from the government? LMAO hard to believe and even IF it's the case you would imagine that a global multinational corporation such as EA has double the budget of poor (in an affectionate way) Poland.

CDP received government subsidies from the state and europe as a startup, although its unclear how much witcher 3 was effected by this to anyone not having internal access, seeing as how they've been around as a company for over 20 years.

 

http://visegradinsig...valley24092014/

[Luke Pearce]

I played through both DA:I and TW3 and while I thought Witcher 3 was better I still have no motivation at all to go back for a second playthrough. I played through all the Mass Effect trilogy at least 3 times each (With ME2 having 6 playthroughs!) and I would still rather go back for another playthrough of Mass Effect 2 over DA:I or TW3. That's the thing I find with open-world games. Once I play through it once I am done with it, no matter how much I would like to see what the other outcomes would be it just feels like a chore playing through it again because of all the pointless travelling.

 

I would like ME:A to take a different approach to 'open-world'. Instead of one big map to explore, have the mission take place on smaller maps that allow the freedom to approach them from a variety of angles and methods. I haven't played MGSV (or any Metal Gear game for that matter) but from what I have heard and read you are given specific missions and are taken straight to the general location (instead of having to travel there). Then you're able to make choices of how to do the mission (stealth, guns-blazing, front door, back door, from the air, from a distance or a mixture of everything). That sounds like a better approach to me rather than massive open, mostly empty landscapes that you HAVE to traverse through for your missions. I might be wrong about MGSV though so what I'm saying might not make sense.

 

Just give me the mission, put me in the general area and let me do my thing. Travelling is boring.

[Chealec]

“ TW3 development costs is even greater than DA:I”？  Source please

 

It's quite tricky to actually find numbers on the DA:I budget so it's hard to say ... TW3 had double the budget of ME3 but I can't imagine DA:I costing any less than Skyrim, possibly more... and Skyrim clocked in at around $85 million. TW3 was around $80 million. So I'd guess DA:I was around the $85-$100 million mark, comparable to TW3... but that is just a guess.

[Pasquale1234]

Those were terrible days.
 
The Witcher 2 fights here might have been more annoying. My perception at the time was that it was mostly younger, dumber Witcher fans who were irate that Bioware didn't save them the trouble of modding in the nudity themselves. Possibly these players are now a few years older and calmer (or their internet usage isn't locked behind parental controls, so they don't need to play games for titillation).

How well I remember - it was my first exposure to Witcher fanboys, and they came across like a hoard of hormone-infused, raging adolescents. Their attempts to justify all the female nudity (while Geralt remained at least partially clothed) and 'splain why women were so eager to drop their pants for him were comical.

The more recent influx of TW3 threads get a bit tiresome, but they're not nearly as annoying.

[mickey111]

To codex probably thinks they're okay and that BSN are just too easily offended.

 

They have a slightly creepy obsession with Bioware though.

[Mcfly616]

Or they're justifiably concerned that Bioware's takeaway might be exactly the wrong thing. 

 Probably not. Nothing wrong with being inspired by greatness.