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[ShadowLordXII]

So we know that the Chantry story about the Magisters invading the Golden City and coming back with the darkspawn taint is very true. Some details are uncertain, but the result of the "Second Sin" are clear.

 

The magisters discovered the Blight within the Golden City and were corrupted by it. They then returned to the mortal world with the Taint and the darkspawn eventually destroyed the dwarven kingdoms and turned to the surface with the 1st Blight.

 

But...where exactly did the first darkspawn come from?

 

From lore, it appears as though the magisters got the taint, were cast back into Thedas and then boom! The darkspawn start going crazy on the dwarves and eventually Thedas after Dumat is discovered. There doesn't appear to be definite answer about the origins of the darkspawn horde itself

 

Did the magisters create the first darkspawn from the taint itself with their new power? Did they capture a bunch of dwarves, elves and humans and experimented on them to eventually make broodmothers? Did they make some kind of proto-darkspawn progenitor that got the ball rolling for the rest of the horde? Were the darkspawn always present beneath Thedas, but the magisters actions somehow set them free? (Which could explain why the elves abandoned their fresh Titan-corpse mines?)

 

The third possibility sounds the most interesting to me, but it's just one of many. Any other thoughts?

 

[Taki17]

I don't think the first darkspawn were created intentionally, as the magisters most likely lost their sanity (Corypheus) or memories (Architect) when they were cast back and transformed.

 

My guess is that they started roaming in Thedas and infected others with the taint with their presence, and these people eventually became ghouls/proto-darkspawn, and females became broodmothers who later gave birth to the darkspawn as we know them. From there, they began to hear the calling and went underground in search of the old gods and created their dwellings there.

 

I don't think darkspawn had a natural evolution, the taint from the Golden City (well, at least from the Fade) seems like an engineered something, like a bioweapon that is designed to reproduce rapidly and transfrom & repurpose any existing lifeform

[X Equestris]

It's possible the Darkspawn always existed. I think there is some evidence for that. It's also possible that one or more of the female Magisters became a broodmother and started making darkspawn.

[thats1evildude]

I'm willing to bet the more clever members of their group realized how they could corrupt others, and then through experimentation discovered how to make broodmothers. Since then, it is innate knolwledge to the darkspawn.

[Aulis Vaara]

We know that opening a Breach into the Black City at the very least can taint lyrium in the vicinity (the lyrium beneath the Temple Of Sacred Ashes became corrupted after Corypheus' big honkin' explosion), so it is entirely possible that simply by opening a door back into the real world (apparently into the deep roads), that they corrupted anything and everything nearby. This might explain the Red Lyrium in the primeval thaig and the presence of darkspawn apart from the magisters. They were simply dwarves who became corrupted by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It may also be the case that the Magisters do not have free will until their respective Old God is dead, the Architect being the sole exception either due to his memory loss or due to whatever also caused him to lose his memory. And without free will, the Magisters could easily be seen to create a broodmother. Heck, even with free will, one of them ate another one.

[BillyBanana]

I also wonder where exactly in Thedas the Magisters where thrown back to after the Black City knocked them out. The place where the ritual was held? or straight into the deep roads? It's hard to believe that noone noticed these guys if they were teleported down somehwere in Tevinter.

If they somehow got straight to the deep roads then I also believe that the Black City has some sort connection to a dead Titan or whatever. Maybe it's a Titans counterpart in the Fade that is so hard to reach because of the fact that a dead Titan spreads the taint in the physical world and in the Fade.

[Aulis Vaara]

I also wonder where exactly in Thedas the Magisters where thrown back to after the Black City knocked them out. The place where the ritual was held? or straight into the deep roads? It's hard to believe that noone noticed these guys if they were teleported down somehwere in Tevinter.
If they somehow got straight to the deep roads then I also believe that the Black City has some sort connection to a dead Titan or whatever. Maybe it's a Titans counterpart in the Fade that is so hard to reach because of the fact that a dead Titan spreads the taint in the physical world and in the Fade.

Doesn't make sense. Where are the other Titans in the Fade then? And why aren't they visible from everywhere like the Black City? Aiming your exit out of the Fade might just be harder than aiming your entrance.

[azarhal]

I also wonder where exactly in Thedas the Magisters where thrown back to after the Black City knocked them out. The place where the ritual was held? or straight into the deep roads? It's hard to believe that noone noticed these guys if they were teleported down somehwere in Tevinter.

If they somehow got straight to the deep roads then I also believe that the Black City has some sort connection to a dead Titan or whatever. Maybe it's a Titans counterpart in the Fade that is so hard to reach because of the fact that a dead Titan spreads the taint in the physical world and in the Fade.

 

There is a codex from a dwarf who got food and water from what is most probably the Architect (a very polite darkspawn, lol) that mention his grand-father once told him a story about what appear to be 3 magisters arguing with each others in the Deep Roads. So I take it they went straight to the deep roads, but the ritual they performed might have been in the deep roads to start with as well, where it happened is not mentioned.

[BillyBanana]

The Dumat's Claw codex entry that you get in the fade after Adamant implies that the ritual was held in Cory's house I think. I'm not entirely sure if it was the same ritual but it says something about hundred elf slaves being used.

[Poledo]

Well having found out that it was Solas that put up the veil in the first place, that calls into question if the golden city was truly where the maker was. If not, perhaps it was Arlathan or what was left of it after the veil went up. The halls were found empty by the magisters because Solas had sealed the elvanuris away. Where the blight comes in is still very much open for debate but I am going to bet Myhtal has her hands all over it.

[Cz-99]

I blame the elves. They're responsible for everything else wrong with the world, so it wouldn't be surprising if they created Darkspawn too.

[Gervaise]

There have been strong hints given that the enuvaris and Mythal in particular was up to something in the Deep Roads in ancient times and the elves appeared to have a community there.   Then some time after that the elves appeared to panic about something that had manifested there and rushed to close it off to prevent whatever was there coming out.  A voice, possibly Fen'Harel, states that the People need to overthrow their false gods because their greed would end them all.    I think there is a strong likelihood that something the enuvaris did may have corrupted something down there, possibly a Titan, and that is the origin of the blight.    The eluvian in DAO led to something that looked like a black city and there was a sinister creature lurking there.    

 

It is entirely possible that Cory and pals either wound up there by mistake or stepping into the Golden/Black City in the Fade was a portal to the place.   Which is why they ended up down in the depths and Cory said the city was always black and the throne of the gods was empty.   

 

I wouldn't go by anything in the Chant now, since it is clear that much was made up by various figures in the years following Andraste's death.    The specific bit in the Canticle of Silence, with details of the events surrounding the assault on the Golden City, was Hessarian's propaganda against opposing Altus houses that still worshipped the old gods and one of the southern Divine's eventually recognised it as such and had it removed.      All the chronicles concerning Andraste's crusade and capture have been discredited by the alternate history in WoT2, presumably the work of the scholars of the University of Orlais.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I also wonder where exactly in Thedas the Magisters where thrown back to after the Black City knocked them out. The place where the ritual was held? or straight into the deep roads? It's hard to believe that noone noticed these guys if they were teleported down somehwere in Tevinter.
If they somehow got straight to the deep roads then I also believe that the Black City has some sort connection to a dead Titan or whatever. Maybe it's a Titans counterpart in the Fade that is so hard to reach because of the fact that a dead Titan spreads the taint in the physical world and in the Fade.

Canticle of Silence (which gives a lot of details which match perfectly what is currently confirmed regarding the Magisters Sidreal) states that the Archon of the time learned about their transgressions, found the seven of them after they were booted from the city, kicked their asses spreading them to the winds, and then went to prepare for the incoming shitstorm they triggered.

[Daerog]

The Chant is a song with exaggerated elements to tell a story and give "truth" to people. It's not meant to be read as a history book; I don't know of any spiritual texts or scripture that is meant to be take 100% literally as historical facts, since the idea of historical accuracy came around... oh, whatever, this is off topic.

 

 

They likely corrupted some women after they became the First Darkspawn, just as darkspawn make broodmothers now. Starting with dwarves. Vomiting blight into their mouths while making them cannibalize or whatever the process is.

 

I'm doubting that there is a pure darkspawn broodmother formed from one of the high priests if one of them was female.

 

Edit: Canticle of Silence was great, lots of helpful info on that time period.

[ModernAcademic]

In The Shrine of Dumat, the link between the magisters and darkspawn is this:

 

Corypheus says the Chant of Light is wrong and tells us why by revealing a bit of what happened when they entered the Black City.

 

In his words, they didn't bring the Corruption. It was already there. The magisters found something in the Black City, which he calls the darkness, and then embraced it. 

 

The magisters willingly became darkspawn, without knowing they would acquire a monstrous appearance.

 

Add to this the information we learn in Trespasser and some speculation follows below:

Spoiler

 

Whatever the darkness is, it is connected to either of the four: 

1. the Evanuris murdering Mythal
2. the Evanuris trying to destroy the world afterwards
3. the destruction of Arlathan
4. the creation of the Veil by Fen'Harel

One of those four was responsible for turning a part of Arlathan - maybe Elvenhan, the capital of the Empire - into the Black City. Remember, Arlathan was partly in the Fade before the two worlds were separated. The part that remained in the dreaming world crumbled. And somewhere inside it, the Evanuris were locked away.

 

If you pay attention, the Corruption acts exactly like blood magic. It mentally controls whoever comes in contact with it. The murder of Mythal is an act of blood magic and could have led to the discovery of blood magic by the Evanuris. Once they studied it, they might have unlocked a source of power which they didn't want to relinquish. After all, the Evanuris were obssessed with godhood. What is more symbolic of being a god than literally controlling your subjects with your mind?

 

The magisters heard voices, and the only people we know that are locked within the Fade, more precisely in the Beyond, are the Evanuris. They learned all their magic from whispers coming from the Fade. Those whispers might have taught them blood magic. So their minds were in contact with a higher intelligence, which they mistook for some reason with high dragons. 

 

When a special kind of dragon is infected with the Corruption, it becomes enslaved to those voices. He is controlled through blood magic and acts as an amplifier for the Evanuris' power. Through the Corruption, they control both the Archdemon and the darkspawn, enacting their will in this world. 

 

If this is true, then the Evanuris are themselves the source of the Corruption. Either they've become Blighted through Solas' actions (creation of the Veil and imprisonment in the Beyond) or by their own hand (the other three alternatives).

 

Thus, we can conclude the Corruption will only cease to exist for eternity when either all the Evanuris are killed or the magic that created the Black City is undone. If creating the Veil was such magic, then Solas's plan for destroying the Veil might eliminate the Corruption in its source.

 

There are many gaps in all that theorization, but there you go.

[Morroian]

Based on the discussions here I think it has something to do with Mythal killing 1 or more titans and what the elves did afterward.

[Jandi]

In The Shrine of Dumat, the link between the magisters and darkspawn is this:

 

Corypheus says the Chant of Light is wrong and tells us why by revealing a bit of what happened when they entered the Black City.

 

In his words, they didn't bring the Corruption. It was already there. The magisters found something in the Black City, which he calls the darkness, and then embraced it. 

 

The magisters willingly became darkspawn, without knowing they would acquire a monstrous appearance.

 

Add to this the information we learn in Trespasser and some speculation follows below:

Spoiler

 

Whatever the darkness is, it is connected to either of the four: 

1. the Evanuris murdering Mythal
2. the Evanuris trying to destroy the world afterwards
3. the destruction of Arlathan
4. the creation of the Veil by Fen'Harel

One of those four was responsible for turning a part of Arlathan - maybe Elvenhan, the capital of the Empire - into the Black City. Remember, Arlathan was partly in the Fade before the two worlds were separated. The part that remained in the dreaming world crumbled. And somewhere inside it, the Evanuris were locked away.

 

If you pay attention, the Corruption acts exactly like blood magic. It mentally controls whoever comes in contact with it. The murder of Mythal is an act of blood magic and could have led to the discovery of blood magic by the Evanuris. Once they studied it, they might have unlocked a source of power which they didn't want to relinquish. After all, the Evanuris were obssessed with godhood. What is more symbolic of being a god than literally controlling your subjects with your mind?

 

The magisters heard voices, and the only people we know that are locked within the Fade, more precisely in the Beyond, are the Evanuris. They learned all their magic from whispers coming from the Fade. Those whispers might have taught them blood magic. So their minds were in contact with a higher intelligence, which they mistook for some reason with high dragons. 

 

When a special kind of dragon is infected with the Corruption, it becomes enslaved to those voices. He is controlled through blood magic and acts as an amplifier for the Evanuris' power. Through the Corruption, they control both the Archdemon and the darkspawn, enacting their will in this world. 

 

If this is true, then the Evanuris are themselves the source of the Corruption. Either they've become Blighted through Solas' actions (creation of the Veil and imprisonment in the Beyond) or by their own hand (the other three alternatives).

 

Thus, we can conclude the Corruption will only cease to exist for eternity when either all the Evanuris are killed or the magic that created the Black City is undone. If creating the Veil was such magic, then Solas's plan for destroying the Veil might eliminate the Corruption in its source.

 

There are many gaps in all that theorization, but there you go.

 

I noticed something else about Corypheus just recently. He has Red Lyrium on his *face* and all his spells are red, like with red templars, Meredith etc so he is Red Lyrium powered. And when you physically go into the Fade at Adamant there's Red Lyrium around there, and you're near the Black City. I'm thinking that the Evanuris who were locked there have been corrupted by Red Lyrium over the eons and that's what the Magisters encountered, corrupted spirits of Evanuris.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I noticed something else about Corypheus just recently. He has Red Lyrium on his *face* and all his spells are red, like with red templars, Meredith etc so he is Red Lyrium powered. And when you physically go into the Fade at Adamant there's Red Lyrium around there, and you're near the Black City. I'm thinking that the Evanuris who were locked there have been corrupted by Red Lyrium over the eons and that's what the Magisters encountered, corrupted spirits of Evanuris.

Cory only got his red lyrium post waking up when Bianca accidently told Cory about the primeval thaig. As for the red lyrium in the Fade, that stuff is very likely just a Fade construct created by the fears/nightmares about the stuff.

[ShadowLordXII]

Corypheus says the Chant of Light is wrong and tells us why by revealing a bit of what happened when they entered the Black City.

 

In his words, they didn't bring the Corruption. It was already there. The magisters found something in the Black City, which he calls the darkness, and then embraced it. 

 

The magisters willingly became darkspawn, without knowing they would acquire a monstrous appearance.

 

I'm of the same mindset, though there is one question.

 

What if it's actually the Souls of the Forgotten Ones that are sealed in the Black City?

Spoiler

 

The Forgotten Ones are often associated with darkness and plague (blight); they dwell in the Void and Andruil brought something back from the Void that corrupted the land until Mythal stopped her. (sounds very similar to a blight)

 

Also, I believe that Gaider himself suggested that the old gods were most likely based on the forgotten ones rather than the creators: Could the Old Gods have been based on the elven gods? Possibly, but there's nothing to suggest the elven gods were ever dragons, and certainly the contempt the Imperium held for elven culture makes it unlikely that they would think elven gods were worth worshipping. Consider also that it was the Old Gods that taught humanity its magic and encouraged them to destroy Arlathan -- why would elven gods do this? One could point to the Forgotten Ones (look at the codex entry on Fen'Harel for their mention) and suggest that they had reason for vengeance, though that would probably be against Fen'Harel and their good brethren and not against the elven people themselves, no? Still, all of that depends on how much of the knowledge given by Dalish tales is complete.: http://forum.bioware...e-3#entry508158

 

Maybe the Forgotten Ones attempted to use the Blight in their war against the Creators along with possessing Great Dragons and when they lost, they were sealed underground. But being divine mages, they could still access the Fade in spiritual form and used this connection to manipulate and control the Tevinter Magisters into entering the Black City in a ploy to unleash the Blight on the human empire and the post-veil world as revenge or pure spite for losing the elven god war .

[Aulis Vaara]

Going to point out here that it's been confirmed that the Golden City was verifiably golden before the Second Sin, so it seems certain that it was not corrupted over time, but became the Black City because of the Magisters' ritual, and apparently before they physically entered. Either they let something out, or they let something in.

[Jandi]

Going to point out here that it's been confirmed that the Golden City was verifiably golden before the Second Sin, so it seems certain that it was not corrupted over time, but became the Black City because of the Magisters' ritual, and apparently before they physically entered. Either they let something out, or they let something in.

 

Is there any confirmation anywhere that it was golden on the *inside* or just that... it had a nice coat of paint? The Red Lyrium around it in the fade came form *somewhere* and since Red Lyrium is infected with the Blight, something simply doesn't add up. Just not sure what and how. :/

 

Maybe it was golden only on the outside but corrupted and blighted at the core where the Evanuris were? If Fenny used Red Lyrium to seal them in, some part of the city could have been blighted.

[Aulis Vaara]

What, you think the Magisters scraped off all the Golden paint on the outside on their way out?

[Jandi]

What, you think the Magisters scraped off all the Golden paint on the outside on their way out?

 

It's the fade, the Blight might have corrupted the very walls once it was unleashed if it was locked away somewhere.

 

But it's obvious from past threads that you only want to entertain your own ideas so your posts are completely worthless, so I'll just put you on ignore now, bye.

[Aulis Vaara]

It's the fade, the Blight might have corrupted the very walls once it was unleashed if it was locked away somewhere.
 
But it's obvious from past threads that you only want to entertain your own ideas so your posts are completely worthless, so I'll just put you on ignore now, bye.

That's a shame. I love to read other people's theories, but I do have to point out where they don't make sense, otherwise we'll never get to the truth!

People seem far too eager to say "a wizard did it!" Or just blatantly ignoring that Solas 1. doesn't like the Blight and 2. doesn't seem to have much experience with Red Lyrium. And they also often seem to forget that the Evanuris are trapped, masked in a mirror... etc. etc.

[Ranadiel Marius]

And they also often seem to forget that the Evanuris are trapped, masked in a mirror... etc. etc.

I don't know I would agree with the assessment that the Evanuris are Masked in amirror. Whoever it is in the mirror, Solas seems to regret that they are in the mirror and wishes to free whoever it is. However Solas hates the Evanuris, so freeing them from whatever has them trapped is a side effect of his plan rather than a goal. Those Masked in the mirror are likely Elvhes who sided with Solas (Forgotten Ones?) or neutral Elvhes who managed to survi be.