32 réponses à ce sujet

[megageeklizzy]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please do not ban me for what I am about to say.  I do not believe it goes against any rules, and my intention is truly to strengthen the community that has formed around your games.  I mean no offense, and I claim no right to criticize the decisions made on the Bioware forums.  I very much appreciate your work; if I didn't, I would not be on these forums.  The complaining of the community in general is due to its deep appreciation of the games that bring it together.  If we didn't care deeply about this community, we would remain silent.  While some people have tried to be aggressive toward you, I would like to take a more peaceful approach to discussing the recent changes in the forums.

It seems that a lot of the unrest in the community is a result of the decision to lock the off-topic forum.  You don't have to scour the forums to find resentment anymore; in this forum alone, I have seen posts from people who feel abandoned, angry, ignored, and forgotten.  Their choice to so loudly voice their opinions is something of a mystery to me, as they could easily be banned for it, and such anger supports the belief that this community is not mature enough to have an off-topic forum.  

I never really used the off-topic forums.  I don't think I made a single post there.  However, I know that much of the community was active there, and it was a good place for people to get to know each other.  You are driving people away from your forums and onto other sites.  I do understand the sentiment behind your reason:

 

 

 

We want to keep the conversations on our boards focused on BioWare and our games.  Since other communities do exist for such off-topic discussions, we feel it's important to foster conversations within our community that can't be found outside these boards.

 

However, I feel that there will be unintended consequences.  Without the off-topic forum, a lot of the people in the community have decided to go elsewhere, as you hoped.  However, the resentment is obvious, and I fear that those who liked the off-topic forum may no longer participate in conversations about your games here anymore.  Getting rid of the off-topic forum is not fostering the conversations for specific games; it is killing them.  The conversations that "can't be found outside these boards" actually do exist outside these boards, and may exclusively exist outside these boards if the community feels too alienated from this site.  You want conversations to be about your games, which is completely understandable.  If the off-topic forum never existed, the ideal community that you describe may have been more successful.  Having an off-topic forum for years and then locking it is different, though.  You created a safe place for people to share their feelings about anything they wanted to talk about, and then took that sanctuary away.  Such is your right.  These forums are, after all, yours, and you are free to use them as you wish.  We have no right to complain; you give and take away.  

There would probably have been less backlash if the entire forum was deleted.  It would be obvious that the community would have to regroup elsewhere.  Deleting the off-topic forum has split the community, with some people staying here, some going to other forums, and some not posting on any forums out of anger.   People are confused, and though it may sound melodramatic, people are scared.  They may lose relationships that have been built over years of posting in the lobby.  Fear leads to anger.

Many people think that you no longer read posts on your forums, but I wouldn't be writing this if I agreed with them.  I know that you aren't some force of evil.  You're just people.  You may entirely disregard this; you may even take offense, and ban me.  I sincerely hope that I don't offend you.  I love your community, your writers, and your games, and as a game design student, I hope to one day work for you or a company like you.  I just felt like I should reach out and send this message on the behalf of the community.  

 

Sincerely,

Lizzy

 

 

 

P.S. - I have been a temporary moderator on a forum before.  It was a far smaller forum, but I would be willing to moderate or help moderate the off-topic forum should it return.  If there is anything else that I can do, even if it's just never talking about this again, I will gladly do it.  I respect you, and I am offering my time.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

It's a nice thought, but if reasoning about the issue was going to make any difference, we would have received a respectful response by now.

[LPPrince]

I appreciate the thought.

[Commander Rpg]

P.S. - I have been a temporary moderator on a forum before.  It was a far smaller forum, but I would be willing to moderate or help moderate the off-topic forum should it return.  If there is anything else that I can do, even if it's just never talking about this again, I will gladly do it.  I respect you, and I am offering my time.

I have the right mindset, I used to be the off-topic moderator in a videogame emulators community. Once a user nicknamed me as "Bin Laden"; I'm a bloody guarantee.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I don't get BioWare/EA's logic here.

If they don't want people to talk about rival games in the off-topic forum then they should have made it a rule and enforced it.

 

If they wanted people to just talk about other media (movies, TV shows, comics, novels, music, plays. etc) and they don't want people talking about other things (like politics, religion, world events, and etc) then again make it a rule and enforce it.  

[Commander Rpg]

It's easier and cheaper to do like they did. A point that has been discussed previously and multiple times.

[MrFob]

Appreciate the thought as well but honestly, if this thread would get them to respond as opposed to everything else that was said in the "Changes to the BSN" thread, I'd probably be even more worried.

 

If we'd have to open every post where we offer criticism (even constructive) with a paragraph like that:

 

 

Please do not ban me for what I am about to say.  I do not believe it goes against any rules, and my intention is truly to strengthen the community that has formed around your games.  I mean no offense, and I claim no right to criticize the decisions made on the Bioware forums.  I very much appreciate your work; if I didn't, I would not be on these forums.  The complaining of the community in general is due to its deep appreciation of the games that bring it together.  If we didn't care deeply about this community, we would remain silent.  While some people have tried to be aggressive toward you, I would like to take a more peaceful approach to discussing the recent changes in the forums.

I don't know if I would want to stay here.

 

I get what you are trying to do here and civil discussion is all well and good and something that the forum should enforce but IMO valid criticism should not have to be wrapped in that much "fluff" in order to be heard and to be taken seriously.

[Commander Rpg]

IMO valid criticism should not have to be wrapped in that much "fluff" in order to be heard and to be taken seriously.

They don't give a damn anyway, whether it's fluffy or not. In fact, they would feel flattered and care even less if it's all covered by naphtalene and polystyrene.

[Fidite Nemini]

Wasted effort. BioWare's longstanding communication strategy in face of unfavourable reception, which is not communication, continues. And as this forum appears unfavourable (they're doing their utmost to avoid this forum like the Blight) and particularily Offtopic because this section isn't full of BioWare games hype they can use to market their products, they're not going to respond to anything regarding that matter.

 

The official "12 minutes before midnight" topic regarding the various changes gives ample evidence about their lack of interest to have a discourse.

[Kroitz]

A mod recently wanted to move a thread into Off-Topic.

 

If BW doesn´t even talk to their own people about what´s going on you can bet they won´t talk to their com. 

[Commander Rpg]

A mod recently wanted to move a thread into Off-Topic.

 

If BW doesn´t even talk to their own people about what´s going on you can bet they won´t talk to their com. 

Well, nothing new or surprising.

I was thinking of many more interesting uses for the olive branch though.

 

Spoiler

[megageeklizzy]

I...I guess I thought it wouldn't hurt to try.  I don't know.  I love Bioware and their games, and I don't want to see this happen to the community after so many years.  It's only been a day, but I would be naive to expect a reply at all, I suppose.  The responses this thread has gotten reflect the resentment the community feels, and with the lack of a response, maybe we have reason to be resentful.  It's not a decision of Bioware collectively: the other regions still have their off-topic forums.  I don't even know who I should be resenting.  I wish we had more communication, but in the end, maybe I just need to grow up and realize that I can't change the world, that life isn't fair.  I'm really torn between my long-term appreciation for Bioware and my disagreement with some things that have happened recently.  

[LPPrince]

I...I guess I thought it wouldn't hurt to try.  I don't know.  I love Bioware and their games, and I don't want to see this happen to the community after so many years.  It's only been a day, but I would be naive to expect a reply at all, I suppose.  The responses this thread has gotten reflect the resentment the community feels, and with the lack of a response, maybe we have reason to be resentful.  It's not a decision of Bioware collectively: the other regions still have their off-topic forums.  I don't even know who I should be resenting.  I wish we had more communication, but in the end, maybe I just need to grow up and realize that I can't change the world, that life isn't fair.  I'm really torn between my long-term appreciation for Bioware and my disagreement with some things that have happened recently.  

 

We've been waiting weeks and still nothing.

[Commander Rpg]

I...I guess I thought it wouldn't hurt to try.  I don't know.  I love Bioware and their games, and I don't want to see this happen to the community after so many years.  It's only been a day, but I would be naive to expect a reply at all, I suppose.

 

It's been naive, not dangerous, rather useless. If you had spent those 10 minutes you used for that post, to dig a hole in the ground, it would have been time better spent. No offense!

 

 The responses this thread has gotten reflect the resentment the community feels, and with the lack of a response, maybe we have reason to be resentful.  

 

There was resentment before the lack of response. People was mad as hell in the right moment the announcement was made, because they had already decided everything and said it with an anticipation of a dozen minutes. The bloody dozen.

If you kick a lion in the balls don't expect him to lick you in your face with happiness.

 

It's not a decision of Bioware collectively: the other regions still have their off-topic forums.  I don't even know who I should be resenting.  I wish we had more communication, but in the end, maybe I just need to grow up and realize that I can't change the world, that life isn't fair.  I'm really torn between my long-term appreciation for Bioware and my disagreement with some things that have happened recently.

 

It's a decision shared by all the Bioware's staff. If there were people disagreeing, it's painfully obvious they can't talk or decide anything else, because they are bound by contracts.

The regional off-topic forums seem to be different thing and are always handled by Bioware, so there's no argument in this, they deliberately wanted to kill Off Topic because, even being a single section, it was having part of the big shares of the users' traffic that didn't talk about their games. This implies, on their point of view, not making money by sponsoring/merchandising/letting the attention span to endure, and it means throwing more money (always on their pov) to pay already inefficient moderators (guiltily inefficient). The faster you understand this, the less painful will be to accept.

 

I've stopped to appreciate Bioware, like I did, since years. Now my respect for them is under the shoe soles, at the point I won't buy anything else from them unless I see some changing.

[Puddi III]

We've been waiting weeks and still nothing.

 

It's a month tomorrow.

[LPPrince]

It's a month tomorrow.

 

I'm not gonna like this on principle because eww

[Puddi III]

Yep.

[Dio Demon]

BioWare believes that the olive branch is the cause of the forum's toxicity and as such they will give it 12 minutes warning before they get rid of it.

[Reezus Christ]

Not sure why a non off topic poster would care what happens to it. Its closure probably hasn't affected the other sections all that much. The lack of news and proceeding lack of meaningful discussion would take care of that more than anything.

[megageeklizzy]

Not sure why a non off topic poster would care what happens to it. Its closure probably hasn't affected the other sections all that much. The lack of news and proceeding lack of meaningful discussion would take care of that more than anything.

I don't really care that much, but, like I said, I was writing on the behalf of the community.  I also care about the way that Bioware interacts with the community in general, so even though this particular issue doesn't concern me, I want to be able to openly discuss these kinds of things.

[Commander Rpg]

I don't really care that much, but, like I said, I was writing on the behalf of the community.

 

Who elected you as our spokesman? Who gave you any representative informal authority, at least?

 

Know that the minority in the community supports Bioware's staff's idea, so you're not at least speaking for them. And more of it, you're not speaking for me since I've never asked you to do such speech, which dullness I don't support.

You can speak for yourself, not on the behalf of people who might not share your words or your approach.

[Fidite Nemini]

Not being an offtopic regular doesn't change a single thing about him not agreeing with BioWare's decision and should in fact be appreciated as it makes clear it's not only the offtopic section that's stomping their feet as some do belief.

 

And getting angry about the who one thinks is doing what for whom's behalf/favour/whatever semantics is just getting offended for the sake of being offended.

 

Being disappointed is one thing, getting bitter and taking it out on people who're talking for your benefit is another.

[megageeklizzy]

 

Who elected you as our spokesman? Who gave you any representative informal authority, at least?

 

Know that the minority in the community supports Bioware's staff's idea, so you're not at least speaking for them. And more of it, you're not speaking for me since I've never asked you to do such speech, which dullness I don't support.

You can speak for yourself, not on the behalf of people who might not share your words or your approach.

Behalf has two meanings:

be·half

bəˈhaf/

noun

 

1. 1.

   in the interests of a person, group, or principle.

   "votes cast by labor unions on behalf of their members"

   synonyms: in the interests of, in support of, for, for the benefit of, for the good of,for the sake of

   "a campaign on behalf of recycling"
2. 2.

   as a representative of.

   "he had to attend the funeral on Mama's behalf"

   synonyms: as a representative of, as a spokesperson for, for, in the name of, in place of, on the authority of, at the behest of

   "I am writing on behalf of my client"

 

 

 

I was using it in the context of the first meaning.  Sure, not everyone agrees with me.  At least most people who don't have the decency to keep their ignorance to themselves.  You're angry, and I get that, but making fun of others only makes you look bad.  I don't know whose picture that is, but if the person is mentally handicapped or something, the context is even more offensive.  Sure, call me retarded.  I can take it like a woman, because I know that I'm not the one who is being ridiculous.  Go away and spout your offensive anger somewhere else.  I don't want to hear it.

[Commander Rpg]

The same reason applies for both, I didn't ask you to write an essay in that too-sweetened tone/arguments I don't agree with. If you wanted to do something for the sake of community, you could have done it without opening a topic that doesn't respect the involved people's entire reasoning, and avoiding saying that you do it for the other people's sake. I didn't need it since I don't need red cross nurses around.

 

Anyway I'm not angry, if I was I'd be answering in a way different manner, and the picture's intent was to express my reaction to your post/intentions

 

This is the full video

 

I didn't call you retarded and neither I wanted to insult. Take it easy.

[Puddi III]

You've seriously never seen or heard of Wayne's World, though?