15 réponses à ce sujet

[Esthlos]

In my first playthroughs I didn't notice it: I was so focused on the wreck that is the ending that I barely noticed the other nonsense.

 

Now, on my 3rd playthrough with MEHEM installed, having almost managed to forget there ever was a starbrat I'm beginning to notice other things, like the fact that both the Geth and the Quarians in Mass Effect 3 got altered beyond acceptable.

 

1) "Does this unit have a soul?"

I mean, seriously?

After the difficulties in Mass Effect 2, when we tried to make Legion understand we wanted to know the name of the unit we activated?

After it explained that networked geth have one mind, one consensus, that the different platforms only contributed to it with data from different angles?

Suddenly, we are told that they always had individuality.

What the hell?

 

2) The memories in the geth server.

Those geth... were beyond pacifist.

It makes it really unbelievable to think they'd fight back at some point.

They even wanted to surrender to avoid injury to the quarians that were defending them... then *awkward time skip*, and Geth/Gandhi slaughtered most of the quarians and allowed the survivors to flee.

What the hell?

 

3) Arming the live ships.

In Mass Effect 1 and 2 we can see that the Quarians pretty much live for their people, and would do anything for them.

Skip to Mass effect 3, now they're a bunch of morons willing to strap guns to their schoolbuses and send them against an highly dangerous enemy.

Even after said enemy overpowered their surprise weapon, even after Shepard managed to give them a chance to let at least the liveships flee.

What the hell?

 

4) Punching Han'Gerrel.

Ok, this is more of a pet peeve than a nonsense, but I would have expected the Paragon interrupt to be punching him and throwing him out, and the renegorn dialogue option to be understanding of the situation.

But I just realized that every time I took that Renegade interrupt all I wanted was to just shoot the moron, for nearly killing the Human representative, a fellow quarian admiral, possibly one highly influential and important member of a Council race, and for squandering the first and maybe only chance the quarians got to save their people from Darwin-award-worthy suicide.

 

These four are the ones that are bugging me in the current playthrough, but there may be others.

What's your opinion on this?

[SwobyJ]

 

The Geth do not have individuality. You can turn their collective curiosity, and Legion's wish, into a reality.

 

This was a concept starting in ME2 and hinted in smaller ways in ME1.

 

 

The exact ME3 approach may not have been what was exactly originally intended, but there's leadup.

[Esthlos]

The Geth do not have individuality. You can turn their collective curiosity, and Legion's wish, into a reality.
 
This was a concept starting in ME2 and hinted in smaller ways in ME1.
 
 
The exact ME3 approach may not have been what was exactly originally intended, but there's leadup.

Maybe I got this wrong, but the way I see it the difference between "do these units have a soul" and "does this unit have a soul", the difference in how Legion refers to the Geth in ME2 compared to how it does in ME3, is just tremendous, as if in ME2 the Geth "soul" was each network itself while in ME3 it instead was each unit.

[SwobyJ]

Maybe I got this wrong, but the way I see it the difference between "do these units have a soul" and "does this unit have a soul", the difference in how Legion refers to the Geth in ME2 compared to how it does in ME3, is just tremendous, as if in ME2 the Geth "soul" was each network itself while in ME3 it instead was each unit.

 

This is where I like to get conspiratorial that Legion's been manipulating footage for us. Traitor!

[Esthlos]

This is where I like to get conspiratorial that Legion's been manipulating footage for us. Traitor!

Geth do not manipulate!

 

Well, Geth do not intentionally manipulate...

[SwobyJ]

Geth do not manipulate!

 

Well, Geth do not intentionally manipulate...

 

We're just ignorant organics after all.

[themikefest]

In Mass Effect 1 and 2 we can see that the Quarians pretty much live for their people, and would do anything for them.

Apparently Raan and Tali won't do anything for their species. Look what they did while the geth uploaded the code. Both stand around like the dumba**es they are and not make any effort to stop the upload.

 

Look what the geth does when the quarians are chosen. It attacks Shepard and without hesitation, Raan or Tali kill the thing.

[Eleonora]

Maybe I got this wrong, but the way I see it the difference between "do these units have a soul" and "does this unit have a soul", the difference in how Legion refers to the Geth in ME2 compared to how it does in ME3, is just tremendous, as if in ME2 the Geth "soul" was each network itself while in ME3 it instead was each unit.

I always thought the term "unit" is meant as in a geth platform (the "robot body"), not an individual single geth program. There can be hundreds of programs installed in a platform, but they can still refer to themselves as a unit.

[von uber]

Retcons! Retcons everywhere!

[Obadiah]

1) Legion in ME2 was clearly gaining an individual personality despite its protestations, so I don't see a discrepancy here.
2) Sure. Synthetics aren't like us. They're incredibly powerful, and completely capable of killing 99% of a population and letting the rest flee because the risk is minimal and the consequences aren't certain.
3) This to me is completely within character of the Quarians. They hate they Geth, have the means to retake Rannoch, and zero expectation of help from the outsiders that just want them to keep wandering. Of course, I was against their action as destabilizing and unnecessarily risky, but I completely see their rationale.
4) Renegade is usually doing something, sometimes violent, to force someone to do something, so the punch seems appropriate.

[Esthlos]

1) Legion in ME2 was clearly gaining an individual personality despite its protestations, so I don't see a discrepancy here.

Legion was built to be a network unto itself, with thousands of programs housed in 1 platform, that was to work in isolation for a long time, without connecting with the rest of the Geth; it made it aboundantly clear that once its mission was over it would go back to be one with the Geth, as would the Heretics if you chose to rewrite them.
 

2) Sure. Synthetics aren't like us. They're incredibly powerful, and completely capable of killing 99% of a population and letting the rest flee because the risk is minimal and the consequences aren't certain.

They went from "kill us so that no quarian risks coming to harm, we won't defend ourselves" to "we are more than able and willing to kill off most of the quarians in order to defend ourselves", without a real explanation.
Both attitudes make sense on their own: it's the transition between the two that is left largely unjustified.
 

3) This to me is completely within character of the Quarians. They hate they Geth, have the means to retake Rannoch, and zero expectation of help from the outsiders that just want them to keep wandering. Of course, I was against their action as destabilizing and unnecessarily risky, but I completely see their rationale.

As far as the attack itself once they got a war-changing weapon goes, it's true: that's completely in-character.
What is not is strapping guns to the liveships and sending them to war, and later not retreating them at the first occasion once their surprise weapon failed.

This last thing could at least be justified with their strong loyalty to the fleet, if only the admiralty board agreed to the sucide... but as it is shown in the Rannoch arc this isn't the case, as only Han'Gerrel actually wanted to keep up the suicide: Zaal'Koris and Tali'Zorah were strongly against the attack in the first place, Shala'Raan wanted to retreat, and Daro'Xen only wanted to test her new toy.
 

4) Renegade is usually doing something, sometimes violent, to force someone to do something, so the punch seems appropriate.

What did the punch force Han'Gerrel to do?

[Reorte]

Legion was built to be a network unto itself, with thousands of programs housed in 1 platform, that was to work in isolation for a long time, without connecting with the rest of the Geth; it made it aboundantly clear that once its mission was over it would go back to be one with the Geth, as would the Heretics if you chose to rewrite them.

By the end of ME2 though Legion gave the impression of regarding itself as something different from the rest of the geth, so it's just about possible that it chose not to do that. Even when it said "we" it appeared to be referring to just the runtimes running on its platform instead of the entire geth, which was different from the start. Being tied to a unique piece of independent hardware for a long enough time that may have been inevitable.

 

In general I think that the geth download enough runtimes on to a platform when needed, then upload back afterwards (although that would seem to be a waste of available processing power, but we saw the inactive ones on Legion's loyalty mission). There's nothing particularly unique about those runtimes, and the next time that platform is needed a different collection of them may well be active on them.

[Esthlos]

By the end of ME2 though Legion gave the impression of regarding itself as something different from the rest of the geth, so it's just about possible that it chose not to do that. Even when it said "we" it appeared to be referring to just the runtimes running on its platform instead of the entire geth, which was different from the start. Being tied to a unique piece of independent hardware for a long enough time that may have been inevitable.

It's possible... a rather fascinating hypothesis, even.
(After all, even with the fact that in ME3 Legion says it did just that, it still has the same runtimes in the same platform)

Still, it's a single platform evolving apart from the rest of the Geth in a very unique situation, while in the recordings in the server it looks like every platform was an individual since the very beginning of the Morning War.

[Reorte]

Still, it's a single platform evolving apart from the rest of the Geth in a very unique situation, while in the recordings in the server it looks like every platform was an individual since the very beginning of the Morning War.

That's what it looked like, which is pretty much what the other games said wasn't the case, even stating that one platform (other than Legion) couldn't hold enough to be considered sapient in its own right. Being generous let's say it's a simplified presentation of the data in the server (call it a summary perhaps).

[larsdt]

Nothing like space magic to fill out those plot holes.

 

 Codex on quarians: "it can take days for the entire fleet to pass through a relay", Swowowowoosh - every fleet you've assembled arrives simultaneously for the Earth battle.   

 

 "Does this unit have a soul?" Yes, because we gave it some space magic called Reaper tech.   

 

 "How to we explain the Geth's 300 year evolution?" We make a Geth VI infested with space magic and call it Reaper tech. It's fun shooting those cubes, so no one will notice a few glitches.  

 

Non-topic

 

"TIM is such a great multi-facet character but we can't explain his actions in ME3" Just fill his brain with space magic and call it Reaper tech

 

 "How do we make the action sequences more diverse?" Put every race we have introduced into a blender and mix in some Reaper tech.

 

"Our plot for Grunt's mission only works if you saved the Racni Queen in ME1" Hmm, we could try with some Reaper tech.

 

The list goes on - no need to make a word wall of it, ME is not perfect - enjoy the many epic moments and LOLs in the trilogy

[DeinonSlayer]

Gee, it's been forever since I popped into BSN. I wonder if anything's chang-