144 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'm of two minds on this.

 

If working conditions are bad, then yes that should be changed. I'm always going to support better working conditions for everybody. I know voice acting isn't exactly slaving toil but I assume it can get rather difficult, and having to do surprise motion capture is probably highly annoying.

 

Royalties, however? Nope. While VAs are often important to games that feature them, the developpers make the vast majority of the work on a title. I dislike how Hollywood has actors often paid magnitudes more than the people working on the technical side of things, I wouldn't want voice acting to become this as well. Especially since it's pretty much always only the well-known stars that get contracts like this, and the voice actor industry already re-uses them enough for my liking.

 

The industry could stand to provide better protection for lesser known voice actors; those that are always featured in the ''additional voices'' line in the credits. But Nolan North getting royalties on Uncharted on top of his already large salary is not a hill I want to die on.

[Ahglock]

If I want to just read the written word I'll go read a book. I want my video games immersive.

It saddens me to think that people don't find books to be immersive. Books in my opinion are far more immersive than any game or movie can hope to be.

[Queen Skadi]

I'm of two minds on this.

 

If working conditions are bad, then yes that should be changed. I'm always going to support better working conditions for everybody. I know voice acting isn't exactly slaving toil but I assume it can get rather difficult, and having to do surprise motion capture is probably highly annoying.

 

To be honest I am not sure this is the issue, sure I am sure Weaton would love you to believe this is the issue as "**** you give me more money" does not make for a very sympathetic cause (and in all honesty their cause hinges on the support of the public because as soon as developers realize they can hire more effective voice actors for less they will be out of a job) but the truth is at the forefront of every proposal the union puts forth royalties are always the biggest issue they are pushing for.

 

It is like how anti-gamergaters always push the "descrimination against women angle" to try and skew the conversation away from the real issues.

 

Reading Weaton's sob story about the horrors in the day of the life of a video game voice actor it really does not sound any more stressful than any other 9-5 day job, there are certainly far worse jobs with far worse conditions and far worse pay.

[Avejajed]

It saddens me to think that people don't find books to be immersive. Books in my opinion are far more immersive than any game or movie can hope to be.

I didn't actually mean it that way. I'm an avid reader, and I know books are immersive. I just meant that I want something different than what a book can offer me.

I read nonstop and I play video games, but I don't equate the experiences in the same way other than both tell me a story and I can get lost in both. But I enjoy the voiced aspect of video games because it adds to the experience.

I guess I'm just not explaining myself right.

[Wolfman]

I'm a teacher and I talk for many hours everyday. I'm not even doing weird sounds with my voice. Just a regular speaking voice. And it freaking KILLS by the end of a day.

My boyfriend - he's a call center rep. He also works overtime a lot - 10 hours. His voice takes a beating. He's in a lot of pain by the end of one work day.

It can cause all kinds of throat damage, and has been known to trigger cancer of the throat.

I sympathize with VA's wanting to reduce the time to two hours.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Skadi, you've never voice acted, have you? It's not just reading words off a page unless you want a sh*t performance. I've dabbled in it and it's hard. You have to create the character, and making that character come alive. And that voice stays with the character and is remembered by everyone who plays the game or who watches the animation. Maybe you're satisfied with a sh*t performance. Maybe you're satisfied with going back to text games. But the world out there isn't. We've gotten used to some quality voice acting. If they go back, the gaming industry will suffer. Everyone know it. And  no one will be satisfied with text games.

 

A two hour voice acting session is tiring. It's like singing for two hours. You're engaging the same exact muscles and tissues. It's not the same as talking.

 

This is another try in union busting by corporations, that's what this is. This is class warfare against the middle class. Most voice actors are not rich.

[Queen Skadi]

I am not saying voice acting easy, I am not saying there aren't strains but then what job doesn't have it's share of hardships? While it is true doing a good job in voice acting takes effort and some people do a better job than others but it isn't the colossal task some of you are trying to make it out to be and certainly not one that warrants royalties on top of a $200+ per hour pay check.

 

Almost every job you do requires some sort of effort or hardship and most of them don't pay anywhere near that much, Voice Actors aren't these special snowflakes that have it so much harder than anyone else, I guess if they can get away with charging so much for their services then more power to them but I don't see why I or anyone else should lobby under the hashtag #performancematters to further inflate their already bloated pay checks nor do I see why anyone should feel sorry for them.

[Ahglock]

I didn't actually mean it that way. I'm an avid reader, and I know books are immersive. I just meant that I want something different than what a book can offer me.

I read nonstop and I play video games, but I don't equate the experiences in the same way other than both tell me a story and I can get lost in both. But I enjoy the voiced aspect of video games because it adds to the experience.

I guess I'm just not explaining myself right.

 

That's fine, I misunderstood your intent.  I've seen similar comments on this board and it grates on me so I took your comment a bit too literally.

 

And I can understand people preferring voice acting, it is a visual medium already and people are used to a medium like that having voice and sound. I think it would be a bit off having no voice for the screams, and background enemies everywhere stuff.  Though if they made it huge and surrounded in comic blocked imagery I'd be sold. 

[Han Shot First]

It doesn't seem like he is asking for voice sessions to be limited to two hours. He is asking for vocally stressful sessions to be limited to two hours. (i.e., shouted dialogue, being asked to alter their voice, ect) I could see how asking someone to do that for more than two hours could potentially wreck their voice.. He points out that he isn't asking to reduce normal voice sessions, which typically last 6 to 8 hours.

[Avejajed]

I think reducing vocally stressful sessions to 2 hours is fine. I think some of these requests are easily given.

I really think it's the no non-union voices issue that's the biggest kicker, even more than royalties.

[Ahglock]

I think reducing vocally stressful sessions to 2 hours is fine. I think some of these requests are easily given.

I really think it's the no non-union voices issue that's the biggest kicker, even more than royalties.

 

Unions push for that all the time.  As there is no reason to be in the union if anyone can get the job.  In my field you are required to be in a union you either turn the job down or you are in the union.  They then made us ineligible for state disability but if you sign up for the deluxe union package you get to vote on union stuff and get disability insurance.(which is far worse than state disability)  Basically union or bust is the norm in many fields.  This isn't the place for my full on rant about them though.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The no non-union voices will only affect the big publishers. Seriously. Screen actors have a union. Screen writers have a union.

 

The big and famous voice actors don't have to worry about getting abused on the job. It's the nobodies. That's what collective bargaining is all about.

[FFZero]

I don't believe what I'm reading here.

"VAs are getting paid $200/hour and want more, let's sharpen some pitchforks!"

......Meanwhile in Shareholder's Lounge.......

Shareholders just sit there, acting like they matter, cashing in hundreds of millions while cntributing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL.

If you want to blame anyone about anything money related, blame shareholders. Everytime. Everywhere.

 

Yeah shareholders do nothing at all…except you know finance the actual game. You and many others may not like shareholders but without them AAA titles wouldn’t get made.

[Panda]

Unions push for that all the time.  As there is no reason to be in the union if anyone can get the job.  In my field you are required to be in a union you either turn the job down or you are in the union.  They then made us ineligible for state disability but if you sign up for the deluxe union package you get to vote on union stuff and get disability insurance.(which is far worse than state disability)  Basically union or bust is the norm in many fields.  This isn't the place for my full on rant about them though.

 

That idea is weird for me, but I guess it depends on country then. To me unions are something you can join voluntarily and they protect you, against unfair employers, uncase of lawcases, in case you get fired, in case you need help on something and you can get certain benefits usually concerning holidays by being part of union and paying membership fee.

 

So I'm against that since it's something that can't even happen in my country ^^

[Amirit]

I'm a teacher and I talk for many hours everyday. I'm not even doing weird sounds with my voice. Just a regular speaking voice. And it freaking KILLS by the end of a day.

My boyfriend - he's a call center rep. He also works overtime a lot - 10 hours. His voice takes a beating. He's in a lot of pain by the end of one work day.

It can cause all kinds of throat damage, and has been known to trigger cancer of the throat.

I sympathize with VA's wanting to reduce the time to two hours.

 

May I ask you about your salary? 200$ per hour? No? I though so. And as a teacher you work incomparably harder than many, many people, including VA. Interesting, though, you are not on the strike for royalties from teaching programs you happen to use. Why aren't you? And your boyfriend in a call center - that center belongs to some big company, is not it? Should not the company pay some royalty to him?

 

Seriously, the job is the job. Those VA choose voice acting as their occupation. They are there for a big money and pleasure that performing gives you. Generations of actors and singers performed (and continue to do so) in far severe conditions than modern VA. And - oh, miracle! - not only survived but able to perform until the very old age. You know why? Voice training techniques. You can learn it. Actors DO learn it - mandatory part of the training. So, sorry, I do not buy that "I am in an awful danger" cry with suggestion to random people to try it as a proof of difficulty.

 

And another thing. As of now (read comments from developers) game developers have no mechanism to anyhow affect the job of VA. All that is settled - you pay VA per hour, no matter what that VA does in that hour. And you pay a lot. Do you really surprised developers want to get the job done within the time they paid for? And some how be protected too from an inattentive worker wasting their money? Yet, that VA is crying a river that he can not check his twitter during that horribly long 3 hours of work he had been paid for! Truly, how can one survive for 3 hours without checking Twitter!

 

No, no sympathy from me on any part of that request. You do not like the job - you do not do the job. It's not like a cheap labor from Mexico can replace them in that area. They already corned developers and demanding more will only make games more expensive for something unnecessary. 

[Ianamus]

If voice actors get royalty payments before the programmers, artists and producers it will be a complete joke. I know that their job isn't easy but none of the people working on the game have an easy job, and the VA's aren't the ones pulling 14 hour days during crunch time. 

[Wolfman]

 

 

No, no sympathy from me on any part of that request. You do not like the job - you do not do the job. It's not like a cheap labor from Mexico can replace them in that area. They already corned developers and demanding more will only make games more expensive for something unnecessary. 

 

The strain that talking, especially in voices different from one's own natural voice, at extended periods of time results in polyps and lesions in the throat. 

 

They are asking for vocally strenuous sessions to be limited to two hours. I don't see what's so unfair about that. The regular sessions that are less strenuous are still to be at their maximum time allotment. 

 

There are voice training techniques, but they are not a godsend. Beyond that, voice actors, singers, teachers/professors, etc. have all been known to lose their voices due to the strenuousness of talking at length on the job. For an educator, not as big of a deal, but for a voice actor... that's your livelihood. 

 

Also.... 200 dollars per hour sounds like a lot. But this isn't some 40 hour per week job that you work for 52 weeks per year, every year. It's not steady income and it is not contracted like a regular 9 to 5 job. 200 dollars per hour is amazing if you're getting a ton of contracts, for a ton of hours, throughout a 12 month period. But that's not a guarantee. An actor could, within a span of six months, only have 10 hours of dialogue to record which could take up to 20 hours, let's say. And then they wait around another six months and have yet to receive another contract. Hm. That's 4,000 dollars for all that time. And that's *before* taxes. (It's closer to 3300 dollars after federal and state taxes, in addition to social security and medicare deductions.) If they manage to land 6 ten-hour contracts within a year (which, let's not forget, there is a lot of competition), they are - at best - bringing home 20 grand for the year. So don't demonize them for making 200 per hour. These aren't doctors or CEO's we're talking about, here. Hell, most people who work average, mid-level 9 to 5 jobs in an office take home 4,000 dollars in just a month. 

 

But whatever. No sympathy from you? Big loss.

 

Spoiler

[Elhanan]

As far as royalties go, I prefer it to be voluntary to the employer, though I wish more would do this. As I understand, George Lucas had everyone granted a small percentage that worked on Star Wars; even gifted it to someone that turned it down initially for a larger salary. I admire the generosity, but am more than hesitant to insure this is what all such employers should be doing for their folks.

What I dislike about this current event is that studios that have good reputations for dealing with VA'a get caught in all this, too.

[Amirit]

The strain that talking, especially in voices different from one's own natural voice, at extended periods of time results in polyps and lesions in the throat.

And VAs are chained to the work place, forbidden to reasonable breakes for medical reasons? Even Wheaton does not claimed it.
 

They are asking for vocally strenuous sessions to be limited to two hours. I don't see what's so unfair about that. The regular sessions that are less strenuous are still to be at their maximum time allotment.

And developers are asking in return to be able to protect their investments into VA, but that request is branded "ridiculous".
 

There are voice training techniques, but they are not a godsend. Beyond that, voice actors, singers, teachers/professors, etc. have all been known to lose their voices due to the strenuousness of talking at length on the job. For an educator, not as big of a deal, but for a voice actor... that's your livelihood.

And this is why educators training do not include that techniques, while actors - does. Careful medical observation of your conditions is one thing, demanding the world looking after you - is another.
 

Also.... 200 dollars per hour sounds like a lot. But this isn't some 40 hour per week job that you work for 52 weeks per year, every year.

And here we can only speculate. Because from what we see and read in mass media those VA do have a lot of contracts all the time. One does not switch from a stable job of company employee to uncertainty of freelancing if he does not have a solid hope for a good return.
As of competition - it's far less than anywhere else. And one of the point of the strike (which you ignore as well as royalty part) is to eliminate competition in general.
 

Hell, most people who work average, mid-level 9 to 5 jobs in an office take home 4,000 dollars in just a month.

MOST people?!! Hell, I live in the wrong world! Can I move to yours? Please?

I begin to think you are not a teacher. Or you are teaching in a very special place.

Spoiler

http://cdn.meme.am/i...0x/61160411.jpg

[Wolfman]

Oh god, he did that cliche thing where he breaks down everything I wrote into a series of quotes, setting the stage for a compartmentalized rant. 

[Rannik]

Here I'm hoping they don't get hired anymore.

 

I'm so tired of hearing the same voices in every single American videogame that I'm starting to play them either muted or with Spanish dubbing. Even if that means losing some stuff in translation I'll take it over yet another minute of Nolan North, Troy Baker or Jennifer "Soap Opera" Hale.

[LinksOcarina]

If you know their names, they're not the people the union needs to protect.

Look at the credits under Additional Voices. Those are the people who need protecting.

 

I research this stuff a lot, so I know a lot of people under additional voices. Some of them, like Meer and Delise, are there as well. 

[Queen Skadi]

Yet, that VA is crying a river that he can not check his twitter during that horribly long 3 hours of work he had been paid for! Truly, how can one survive for 3 hours without checking Twitter!

 

The bigger question is what is he doing bringing a phone into the recording booth? One would think one of the golden rules of voice acting would be don't bring devices into the recording booth that could potentially disrupt the recording.

[Queen Skadi]

Also.... 200 dollars per hour sounds like a lot. But this isn't some 40 hour per week job that you work for 52 weeks per year, every year. It's not steady income and it is not contracted like a regular 9 to 5 job. 200 dollars per hour is amazing if you're getting a ton of contracts, for a ton of hours, throughout a 12 month period. But that's not a guarantee. An actor could, within a span of six months, only have 10 hours of dialogue to record which could take up to 20 hours, let's say. And then they wait around another six months and have yet to receive another contract. Hm. That's 4,000 dollars for all that time. And that's *before* taxes. (It's closer to 3300 dollars after federal and state taxes, in addition to social security and medicare deductions.) If they manage to land 6 ten-hour contracts within a year (which, let's not forget, there is a lot of competition), they are - at best - bringing home 20 grand for the year. So don't demonize them for making 200 per hour. These aren't doctors or CEO's we're talking about, here. Hell, most people who work average, mid-level 9 to 5 jobs in an office take home 4,000 dollars in just a month. 

 

But whatever. No sympathy from you? Big loss.

 

No depending on how much work they get it may not be a steady income (though if you actually do your research I think you will find that a lot of the big name voice actors are doing pretty well for themselves) but no matter how you split it $200 dollars an hour is still a pretty amazing pay check, just because somebody does not get consistent hours does not mean they are entitled to more money per hour (well casual rates are generally higher than normal rates but they still don't get more money proportional to the amount of hours they don't work work), if they are finding they can't pay the bills with voice work alone then it is up to them to find an additional source of income, the world does not owe you a living and I don't see why this should be any different for voice actors?

 

As for mine and Amirit's lack of sympathy I am sure these Voice actors can do without it as they already have plenty of idiots willing to retweet the hashtag for them but the thing that gets me why should anyone feel sympathy for them? Why do you care so much about the livelihood of those who already hold quite lucrative positions, these guys are already doing pretty good for themselves so why do you feel the need to lobby on their behalf?

[Queen Skadi]

Here I'm hoping they don't get hired anymore.

 

I'm so tired of hearing the same voices in every single American videogame that I'm starting to play them either muted or with Spanish dubbing. Even if that means losing some stuff in translation I'll take it over yet another minute of Nolan North, Troy Baker or Jennifer "Soap Opera" Hale.

 

Yeah I would love to see some new blood in the industry instead of hearing the same voices over and over and over again. Yeah they are proficient voice actors as one would expect with the amount of experience they have in the industry but they aren't that amazing, really getting sick of hearing Nolan North and Jen Hale in nearly every game I play.

 

I research this stuff a lot, so I know a lot of people under additional voices. Some of them, like Meer and Delise, are there as well. 

 

I believe Steve Blum and John Dimaggio do a lot of additional voices, a lot of the time even the additional voices aren't nobodies either.