Another user, Kadan, suggested an Awakening style option. You can choose to play either Inquisitor or a new protagonist. Some dialogue, relationships, and of course, background will be different. However, the main plot will stay the same. How about that?
What about the voice acting costs? 2 male and female for inquisitor, at least 1 male and female for new protagonist.
What about the voice acting costs? 2 male and female for inquisitor, at least 1 male and female for new protagonist.
That depends on how story is structured. And even if we minimize the role of Inquisitor, you think they wouldn't have to be voice-acted again?
Plus, if they acted as a way to dump information or push the plot other NPCs would have to do in their stead, the cost of voice-acting shouldn't really outweigh the cost of not just voice acting for those different NPCs, but every cost related with designing them from the scratch (writing, concept art, clothing, 3d models, animation and the lot - everything else would already be in place, well-established).
So actually, costs could be cut or made equal, depending on how cleverly protagonists are sewn into the story.
I would want the inquisitor in the game briefly, maybe just controlled to walk down a hallway towards the wartable one last time whilst proudly displaying the new arm prosthetic and then entering the extended cutscene that introduces our new character.
For the next installment, they really need to bring back the Origins method of allowing a few levels with set backgrounds. The human mage origin would be the apprentice of a Magister attending a gladiator game while the human warrior or rogue would be a competing gladiator and etcetera etcetera hell breaks loose etcetera chosen one etcetera.
If we are roped in to a single holding cell like last time wearing the same rags I will be sorely disappointed.
That depends on how story is structured. And even if we minimize the role of Inquisitor, you think they wouldn't have to be voice-acted again?
Plus, if they acted as a way to dump information or push the plot other NPCs would have to do in their stead, the cost of voice-acting shouldn't really outweigh the cost of not just voice acting for those different NPCs, but every cost related with designing them from the scratch (writing, concept art, clothing, 3d models, animation and the lot - everything else would already be in place, well-established).
So actually, costs could be cut or made equal, depending on how cleverly protagonists are sewn into the story.
Why would they need to appear in person? They might just send a letter like the Hero of Ferelden. Or perhaps only appear directly in a DLC.
Well, in inquisition you had this scenario where three different actors had to provide info dumps to cover the warden role in that arc, with Alistair, Loghain, and Stroud, combined with two VA's covering all of Hawke's role in that same line. That's still a whole lot less than the Inquisitor's role; at one point they said that to have eight VA's(two for each race), the game would have to come on four or five disks. Perhaps some hyperbole, but still, that is a significant investment of resources.
If DA4 on the whole cuts down on having redundant parts that more than one character can end up filling - No situation where it might be Loghain, Alistair, or Stroud, no situation where it might be Alistair or Anora, etc - then you could have the four VA's cover a larger NPC role than what we saw from similar plotlines previously.
And really, assuming we're moving to Tevinter and won't have to deal with who's running Orlais and Ferelden, or who's the Divine, then they can have a game without a single role where more than one character can fill it depending on the playthrough. So all those resources could go to the Inquisitor.
Why would they need to appear in person? They might just send a letter like the Hero of Ferelden. Or perhaps only appear directly in a DLC.
.... A DLC? For a resolution of a major story arc?
Also - wasn't DAI criticized enough for dealing with many things through letters and codices? The Hero of Ferelden sent a letter, because there was the only realistic way they could 'appear' in a game with so many problems standing on a way to bring him/her back, yet people still complained.
Also - yeah, great storytelling, relegating either a boss or a major character to a chain or letters... I mean, at least in case of HoF, the letter was entirely optional.
Even Hawke appeared personally to help Inky deal with Corypheus and stayed for a major story beat, despite the only useful information really being the contact with a Grey Warden in Crestwood (as well as optional sacrifice under Adamant).
Did we ever tie up loose ends with the warden or with Hawke? We got a cameo appearance, but we'll never really play again with either of those characters. Is the Inquisitor somehow entitled to an extra game when they are not?
No we haven't unfortunately, which is in general the one problem I have with the series. Just because none of the other protagonists got to clean up their loose ends does not mean they should continue the pattern. Even people that want a new protagonist don't like this pattern of the new protagonist spending the first half of their game cleaning up the last one's mess. Give us a clean cut, a villain or mess that has nothing to do with the last protagonist, or let our protagonists clean up their own messes.
As I said before, I was ready to retire my Inquisitor, then Trespasser happened, kicking the Inquisitor out of the story now is like Anders blowing up the chantry in Dragon Age 2, Hawke declaring they are gonna stab him/spare him and then instead the Inquisitor shows up out of nowhere and either does it for you or does the complete opposite of what Hawke wants due to the fact that they are another person, have no connection with Anders, and don't really give a damn about what Hawke wants.
No. Every game that features the inquisitor as the protagonist after this game makes the series more about him/her, and less about the time period. Just like Mass Effect is Shepard's story, that turns Dragon Age into the Inquisitor's story. It weakens the other game's stories retroactively, as well as future protagonists.
Except Mass Effect is continuing without Shepard now, isn't it? Also, that was for three games, we only need the Inquisitor back for one. And with each successive new Mass Effect game Mass Effect stops being about Shepard and starts being about the Mass Effect Universe instead. But, notice how the Mass Effect team seem to be giving us a clean cut from Shepard's story? I bet the new Protagonist of Mass Effect isn't cleaning up after Shepard, Shepard did that on their own.
So again I say, having one protagonist return as protagonist for one more game in a series of (so far) four games (counting DA4, five if you count Awakening) in order for that protagonist to tie up loose ends does not make Thedas stop being the protagonist of the series!
You may not like this, but it's true. Even one game upsets the balance. (Especially when there are only 3 games out currently) Passing the torch is the right thing to do here.
Nope, I see no balance upset. You may not like that, but you've presented no evidence to me that having the protagonist return for one more game ruins Thedas' story. We still get to see new parts of Thedas with the Inquisitor repeated and will continue to see new part of Thedas with a new Protagonist after the Inquisitor handles Solas. That still looks like Thedas is the protagonist overall to me.
Well, in inquisition you had this scenario where three different actors had to provide info dumps to cover the warden role in that arc, with Alistair, Loghain, and Stroud, combined with two VA's covering all of Hawke's role in that same line. That's still a whole lot less than the Inquisitor's role; at one point they said that to have eight VA's(two for each race), the game would have to come on four or five disks. Perhaps some hyperbole, but still, that is a significant investment of resources.
If DA4 on the whole cuts down on having redundant parts that more than one character can end up filling - No situation where it might be Loghain, Alistair, or Stroud, no situation where it might be Alistair or Anora, etc - then you could have the four VA's cover a larger NPC role than what we saw from similar plotlines previously.
And really, assuming we're moving to Tevinter and won't have to deal with who's running Orlais and Ferelden, or who's the Divine, then they can have a game without a single role where more than one character can fill it depending on the playthrough. So all those resources could go to the Inquisitor.
Yes, and so much depends on to what extent the inquisitor would be appearing. If the appearance is relatively small, the cost wouldn't be overbearing. And with that IM crystal, its possible that for smaller pieces of information Dorian will deliver the message as a proxy.
Part of what gives me hope for what Bioware can do with DA4 is that moving north lets them cut ties with a lot of variable baggage from the previous games. Its almost a clean slate, in terms of world state. It means they can focus fewer resources on acknowledging past choices.
Do people really like the Inquisitor enough to want to spend more time with them? For those who do, I'm curious as to why.
Because Trespasser happened and spoiled my Inquisitor's retirement plan.
What using the Inquisitor as the PC in the next game will do is ruin Tevinter's story by not allowing us to be a part of it.
What using the Inquisitor as the PC in the next game will do is ruin Tevinter's story by not allowing us to be a part of it.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
Not only there's no guarantee that the new protagonist will be from Tevinter proper - or that the story will be predominantly about Tevinter, despite things happening there - that's like saying that Inquisitor being from Free Marches somehow doesn't allow it to be Inquisition's story (set predominantly in Orlais and Ferelden).
That doesn't make any sense at all.
Not only there's no guarantee that the new protagonist will be from Tevinter proper - or that the story will be predominantly about Tevinter, despite things happening there - that's like saying that Inquisitor being from Free Marches somehow doesn't allow it to be Inquisition's story (set predominantly in Orlais and Ferelden).
I will say I feel it creates a feeling of removal. My Inquisitor won't feel as much a part of Tevinter society as a new Protagonist because I've played them in Orlais and Ferelden for so long, and NPCs will recognize them for that. Skyhold and Kirkwall started feeling like home to my protagonists. Having that in the background while our character tries to establish themselves in Tevinter augments the feeling of being an outsider. I won't say that would ruin Tevinter, but its an issue
That doesn't make any sense at all.
Not only there's no guarantee that the new protagonist will be from Tevinter proper - or that the story will be predominantly about Tevinter, despite things happening there - that's like saying that Inquisitor being from Free Marches somehow doesn't allow it to be Inquisition's story (set predominantly in Orlais and Ferelden).
Yeah, I have to say that not capitalizing on Tevinter and making that the primary setting and doing that justice would be a far greater disappointment to me than if they had Solas die in the first five minutes by tripping over a rock and smashing his head open.
Tevinter is one of the more interesting places in the setting, far more so than Ferelden and in my opinion, Orlais, and you have such a wealth of stories you can tell there. Especially in the middle of a war with the Qunari(who're the other most interesting aspect of the setting).
All of that has me far more excited than anything regarding Solas and the Inquisitor, especially because Solas is, essentially, just a rehash of the last primary villain the had. An interesting and fairly well done rehash, but a rehash all the same.
I will say I feel it creates a feeling of removal. My Inquisitor won't feel as much a part of Tevinter society as a new Protagonist because I've played them in Orlais and Ferelden for so long, and NPCs will recognize them for that. Skyhold and Kirkwall started feeling like home to my protagonists. Having that in the background while our character tries to establish themselves in Tevinter augments the feeling of being an outsider. I won't say that would ruin Tevinter, but its an issue
Only playing a Tevinter native creates a whole new problem - how are you going to play a native, when you don't know (as a player) much about the land itself?
Who is going to explain to you how this nation works? ...Yourself? Quite a paradox.
This is exactly why Inquisitor was from Free Marches and not a native to Orlais or Ferelden. That way we have a good (and logical) excuse as to why Inkys don't know things a native of Orlais or Ferelden should be familiar with and have people explain things to them.
The way I see it, the feeling of alienation doesn't get removed - in fact it may even be deepened, because while my character may somehow know all these things, I may lack the context of understanding what's going on. Not that implementation of such character is impossible - but it's definitely trickier than an outsider, amnesiac or someone who lived in isolated parts of the lands they set on adventure on, hence why they're used more often.
Which is why I think even if we do get a new protagonist (with Inky as secondary one) there's no guarantee that they themselves will be native or very familiar with Tevinter.
And I think that (to a certain degree), that is accurate. The Inqusition is not Ferelden or Orlais and I think that if you were from Ferelden or Orlais it would have made little difference. You'd still be the outsider as the leader of this strange (possibly heretical) organisation. You're part of the Inquisition's story, not Orlais' or Ferelden's.
And if DA4 is not Tevinter's story that would truly be a tragic waste of a good setting.
I get why people think Tevinter is fascinating - it seems like an exceedingly interesting place, but aside of DAII, which DA title was specifically about the land itself? It was a backdrop; either for the efforts against the Fifth Blight or Corypheus.
Therefore I don't even get why people think "it will be Tevinter's story" or that it will be a "tragic waste of a good setting" - especially that it's been already established through Trespasser that Inquisitor is heading to Tevinter to find people and ways to help him/her with stopping Solas. At best, the events in Tevinter (possible Qunari invasion and perhaps uncovering the secrets of Old Gods cult) will happen alongside the main arc of the franchise.
Only playing a Tevinter native creates a whole new problem - how are you going to play a native, when you don't know (as a player) much about the land itself?
Who is going to explain to you how this nation works? ...Yourself? Quite a paradox.
This is exactly why Inquisitor was from Free Marches and not a native to Orlais or Ferelden. That way we have a good (and logical) excuse as to why Inkys don't know things a native of Orlais or Ferelden should be familiar with and have people explain things to them.
The way I see it, the feeling of alienation doesn't get removed - in fact it may even be deepened, because while my character may somehow know all these things, I may lack the context of understanding what's going on. Not that implementation of such character is impossible - but it's definitely trickier than an outsider, amnesiac or someone who lived in isolated parts of the lands they set on adventure on, hence why they're used more often.
Hence why I think even if we do get a new protagonist (with Inky as secondary one) there's no guarantee that they themselves will be native to Tevinter.
That's like asking how we could play a native to Ferelden in DAO, when we very easily could. There's no reason at all not to be native to Tevinter, and frankly, I can think of many more interesting RP possibilities if we are.
I get why people think Tevinter is fascinating - it seems like an exceedingly interesting place, but aside of DAII, which DA title was specifically about the land itself? It was a backdrop; either for the efforts against the Fifth Blight or Corypheus.
Therefore I don't even get why people think "it will be Tevinter's story" or thatit will be a "tragic waste of a good setting" - especially that it's been already established through Trespasser that Inquisitor is heading to Tevinter to find people and ways to help him/her with stopping Solas. At best, the events in Tevinter (possible Qunari invasion and perhaps uncovering the secrets of Old Gods cult) will happen alongside the main arc of the franchise.
DAO was very heavily about Ferelden, with the civil war being in the background just as much as the Blight.
Only playing a Tevinter native creates a whole new problem - how are you going to play a native, when you don't know (as a player) much about the land itself?
Who is going to explain to you how this nation works? ...Yourself? Quite a paradox.
This is exactly why Inquisitor was from Free Marches and not a native to Orlais or Ferelden. That way we have a good (and logical) excuse as to why Inkys don't know things a native of Orlais or Ferelden should be familiar with and have people explain things to them.
The way I see it, the feeling of alienation doesn't get removed - in fact it may even be deepened, because while my character may somehow know all these things, I may lack the context of understanding what's going on. Not that implementation of such character is impossible - but it's definitely trickier than an outsider, amnesiac or someone who lived in isolated parts of the lands they set on adventure on, hence why they're used more often.
Hence why I think even if we do get a new protagonist (with Inky as secondary one) there's no guarantee that they themselves will be native to Tevinter.
I get why people think Tevinter is fascinating - it seems like an exceedingly interesting place, but aside of DAII, which DA title was specifically about the land itself? It was a backdrop; either for the efforts against the Fifth Blight or Corypheus.
Therefore I don't even get why people think "it will be Tevinter's story" or thatit will be a "tragic waste of a good setting" - especially that it's been already established through Trespasser that Inquisitor is heading to Tevinter to find people and ways to help him/her with stopping Solas. At best, the events in Tevinter (possible Qunari invasion and perhaps uncovering the secrets of Old Gods cult) will happen alongside the main arc of the franchise.
That's like asking how we could play a native to Ferelden in DAO, when we very easily could. There's no reason at all not to be native to Tevinter, and frankly, I can think of many more interesting RP possibilities if we are.
If it's so easy and simple to play a native of Ferelden in DAO, then why DAII or DAI didn't repeat the formula?
Also - there are as many RP possibilities with natives as there are with outsiders, with the exception that it's actually easier to explain things to outsiders, without the plot bending over backwards trying to explain why we're asking or focusing on things we should already know as natives to Tevinter.
DAO was very heavily about Ferelden, with the civil war being in the background just as much as the Blight.
... And somehow the effects of mage/templar war or Civil war in Orlais weren't part of Inquisition? Heck, part of the main quest is reconciling or picking new rulers for Orlais!
I would say Origins was quite a bit about Ferelden. The Blight is there but let's not discount the importance of dealing with Loghain and just the sheer amount of Ferelden we got to see trying to unite Ferelden against the Blight. If anything the Blight was just a backdrop, a plot element that basically waits for you to do all the stuff you need before you're ready to confront it. Exploring Ferelden, finding it's disparate elements, that was where the real strength of the story lay. The Archdemon was just the stereotypical monster you fight at the end.
And the origins of DAO are all from Ferelden, I didn't think they were done poorly.
Don't take this as excessive praise for Origins, believe you me and I thought Hawke was done well even though you aren't originally from Kirkwall. But I must admit I really relish the prospect of roleplaying a Tevinter citizen.
... But how is that different from Inquisition?
We spend most of our time building the organization, gathering resources, agents and securing alliances rather than directly dealing with Corypheus and trying to unite people against him and the threat of the Breach. That doesn't change the fact that the land itself was a backdrop to the main conflict or the building the organization itself - because ultimately it's the Blight/Corypheus nations and people united against to fight.
Then there's also the fact that while both Archdemons and darkspawn the likes of Corypheus belong to a 'bogeyman' class, not only they move the plot, but they're intimately tied to the main, overarching plot of the entire series - one that is not really overly-concerned by mundane matters of countries and its rulers, but touches ancient magics and mysteries that threaten to either throw the whole world into chaos, destroy it or change it permanently.
And now that this part of plot actually got more fleshed out and gained on momentum with the reveal of the one who created the Veil and changed the world once already, I really don't see Bioware scaling their story back and making it predominantly about Tevinter and its internal matters.
....And honestly, at this point I relish mostly at the possibility of playing a good game, with a good story continuation. Personally, I don't really care if I'm going to play a Tevinter native or not. But I would be thoroughly disappointed if all this promising buildup we've seen in DAI and especially Trespasser would be put to waste.
Only playing a Tevinter native creates a whole new problem - how are you going to play a native, when you don't know (as a player) much about the land itself?
Who is going to explain to you how this nation works? ...Yourself? Quite a paradox.
This is exactly why Inquisitor was from Free Marches and not a native to Orlais or Ferelden. That way we have a good (and logical) excuse as to why Inkys don't know things a native of Orlais or Ferelden should be familiar with and have people explain things to them.
The way I see it, the feeling of alienation doesn't get removed - in fact it may even be deepened, because while my character may somehow know all these things, I may lack the context of understanding what's going on. Not that implementation of such character is impossible - but it's definitely trickier than an outsider, amnesiac or someone who lived in isolated parts of the lands they set on adventure on, hence why they're used more often.
Which is why I think even if we do get a new protagonist (with Inky as secondary one) there's no guarantee that they themselves will be native or very familiar with Tevinter.
Playing as a Ferelden wasn't a problem in Origins, being a Tevinter wouldn't be either with a well handled intro section. But it's not just being a native or not that's the problem, its the baggage that comes with carrying a foreign protagonist from a previous game that keeps them feeling like an outsider.
There's no guarantee, but the new protagonist might be from Tevinter, whereas the Inquisitor is definitely not.
I mentioned this a few pages back but I think playing as the Inquisitor presents much bigger challenges than playing a Tevinter native, and that's people who go into DA4 having not played DAI.
Mass Effect demonstrated the difficulties in carrying stories and relationships of one person over the course of a series where so much relies on player choice. I came into that series at ME2 and I enjoyed the hell out of it but to this day I still could not care less about Liara or Ashley or Kaiden. I was able to care about Wrex and he became one of my favorite characters, but that's because Wrex is awesome. But I digress.
People coming into the series fresh are not going to care about the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor and they're not going to appreciate nods back to the Inquisitor's backstory.
If they're going to need to reestablish that relationship anyway, then I'd rather they spend that time establishing a new relationship with Solas and a new protagonist, because then at least you can establish a new dynamic and it isn't going to feel like retreading old ground.
I mentioned this a few pages back but I think playing as the Inquisitor presents much bigger challenges than playing a Tevinter native, and that's people who go into DA4 having not played DAI.
Mass Effect demonstrated the difficulties in carrying stories and relationships of one person over the course of a series where so much relies on player choice. I came into that series at ME2 and I enjoyed the hell out of it but to this day I still could not care less about Liara or Ashley or Kaiden. I was able to care about Wrex and he became one of my favorite characters, but that's because Wrex is awesome. But I digress.
People coming into the series fresh are not going to care about the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor and they're not going to appreciate nods back to the Inquisitor's backstory.
If they're going to need to reestablish that relationship anyway, then I'd rather they spend that time establishing a new relationship with Solas and a new protagonist, because then at least you can establish a new dynamic and it isn't going to feel like retreading old ground.
This has been done before in ME and even though it wasn't perfect, the games were still super popular so I don't think this is much of a concern. I don't think Bioware's goals are to minimize challenges. I think they just want to make the most emotionally compelling and immersive rpg game within budget/time limits.
... But how is that different from Inquisition?
We spend most of our time building the organization, gathering resources, agents and securing alliances rather than directly dealing with Corypheus and trying to unite people against him and the threat of the Breach. That doesn't change the fact that the land itself was a backdrop to the main conflict or the building the organization itself - because ultimately it's the Blight/Corypheus nations and people united against to fight.
Then there's also the fact that while both Archdemons and darkspawn the likes of Corypheus belong to a 'bogeyman' class, not only they move the plot, but they're intimately tied to the main, overarching plot of the entire series - one that is not really overly-concerned by mundane matters of countries and its rulers, but touches ancient magics and mysteries that threaten to either throw the whole world into chaos, destroy it or change it permanently.
And now that this part of plot actually got more fleshed out and gained on momentum with the reveal of the one who created the Veil and changed the world once already, I really don't see Bioware scaling their story back and making it predominantly about Tevinter and its internal matters.
....And honestly, at this point I relish mostly at the possibility of playing a good game, with a good story continuation. Personally, I don't really care if I'm going to play a Tevinter native or not. But I would be thoroughly disappointed if all this promising buildup we've seen in DAI and especially Trespasser would be put to waste.
This has been done before in ME and even though it wasn't perfect, the games were still super popular so I don't think this is much of a concern. I don't think Bioware's goals are to minimize challenges. I think they just want to make the most emotionally compelling and immersive rpg game within budget/time limits.
I think minimizing challenges should be part of any successful company's game plan.
You grow and learn by overcoming challenges, but you also need to learn to pick your hill to die on. It's not wise to give yourself more obstacles to climb than are necessary to achieve your goal.
I think minimizing challenges should be part of any successful company's game plan.
You grow and learn by overcoming challenges, but you also need to learn to pick your hill to die on. It's not wise to give yourself more obstacles to climb than are necessary to achieve your goal.
Some challenges are worth it though. Of course you don't think it's worth it, but I and a lot of other people think it is.
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