304 réponses à ce sujet

[faeofthefellwood]

Even if we got to play the Inquisitor for *one* Solas-related mission (since unless his veil spell takes ten years to cast or something, I can't see how they'll avoid that plotline next game?) I would be happy. I definitely won't be if the Inquisitor is reduced to a chain of letters or a cameo where she or he spouts off dialogue that may or may not be in character. They'd have to ask for some pretty specific customization to make Inquisitor-as-NPC work . . .

That being said, I'm really hoping that the next main character will be a Tevinter native from more humble beginnings . . . but I don't want this character to be the one dealing with Solas in the end, because she will have no personal connection to him at all.

[midnight tea]

We have more than one sample. We have Hawke and Revan, and we kind of have the Warden(went against what many players wanted them to do after Origins). How many protagonists have they done right? 

 

In what world an optional letter from HoF constitutes 'recurring protagonist' or even a cameo? And Revan isn't even from DA.

 

 

Patrick Weekes' comment states that he loves the "new protagonist every game" thing. Mike Laidlaw and others have expressed similar sentiment. There is no evidence that they will experiment with that format when it is a format they are perfectly happy with. 

 

If there will be two protagonists and one of them is new (and we'll spend more time with them in the game itself) how is that NOT "a new protagonist every game"?

 

And this is from Kotaku Asks Dragon Age devs:

 

Spoiler

(http://kotaku.com/ko...uisi-1694123219)

Answering the question of a person asking about multiple POV/protag:
 

Mark Darrah: We have thought about different POV characters. We've toyed with it even (Leliana's song for DAO is kind of this). There are issues around player agency with doing this but it isn't off the table.

 

Mike Laidlaw: As to multiple protagonists? Absolutely fascinating and, yes, we have discussed it some. There are a lot of challenges in terms of helping the player identify with more than one created character, but it's a long way from impossible. I thought, for example, that the weaving stories of the GTA V protagonists created a really interesting flow in the story and the gameplay. I agree that betraying yourself would be super cool, so long as "the player" version of you didn't end up feeling like a chump.

 

It's not a confirmation of anything, not by a long shot, but as we see, even long prior to the release of Trespasser they're clearly stating that they're not excluding a possibility of designing a DA game like that (in contrast to it, they're vehemently denying that HoF will make any sort of extended appearance in the franchise).

 

 

I never said anything with certainty. I said at best the Inquisitor gets the Hawke treatment, implying an indeterminate range of possibilities between that and no mention whatsoever. It's silly to create assumptions that aren't backed up by evidence. There is no evidence that they will handle it well, so I'm not going to be mindlessly optimistic when there is no reason to be.

 

I'm sorry, but what you're claiming is backed by selective evidence at best or not evidence at all. I don't see a reason to be mindlessly pessimistic - it's just as silly as mindless optimism.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In what world an optional letter from HoF constitutes 'recurring protagonist'? And Revan isn't even from DA.

Is the Warden a protagonist? Yes. Do they recur in a later game? Yes. Thus they are by definition a recurring protagonist. Besides, I said they only kind of count since what Bioware has the Warden do is not what many players wanted them to do. 

Revan is from Bioware though, and I said Bioware has not inspired any confidence about handling returning protagonists.

 

If there will be two protagonists and one of them is new (and we'll spend more time with them in the game itself) how is that NOT "a new protagonist every game"?

 

And this is from Kotaku Asks Dragon Age devs:

 

Spoiler

(http://kotaku.com/ko...uisi-1694123219)

Answering the question of a person asking about multiple POV/protag:
 

Mark Darrah: We have thought about different POV characters. We've toyed with it even (Leliana's song for DAO is kind of this). There are issues around player agency with doing this but it isn't off the table.

 

Mike Laidlaw: As to multiple protagonists? Absolutely fascinating and, yes, we have discussed it some. There are a lot of challenges in terms of helping the player identify with more than one created character, but it's a long way from impossible. I thought, for example, that the weaving stories of the GTA V protagonists created a really interesting flow in the story and the gameplay. I agree that betraying yourself would be super cool, so long as "the player" version of you didn't end up feeling like a chump.

 

It's not a confirmation of anything, not by a long shot, but as we see, even long prior to the release of Trespasser they're clearly stating that they're not excluding a possibility of designing a DA game like that (in contrast to it, they're vehemently denying that HoF will make any sort of extended appearance in the franchise).

None of that talks about recurring protagonists. It reads more as them discussing the possibility of two new protagonists rather than one, especially with what Mike Laidlaw says earlier in that exact quote. 

 

I'm sorry, but what you're claiming is backed by selective evidence at best or not evidence at all. I don't see a reason to be mindlessly pessimistic - it's just as silly as mindless optimism.

How is it selective evidence? I even asked you to provide counter-evidence. And it is evidence. Bioware has inspired no confidence, so there is nothing mindlessly pessimistic about it, but rather it is being realistic. If they prove me wrong, great. I hope they do. But I see no reason to think that until they can prove they can do it. 

[midnight tea]

Is the Warden a protagonist? Yes. Do they recur in a later game? Yes. Thus they are by definition a recurring protagonist. 

 

You're grasping at straws SO BAD now. Oh my god... The letter doesn't even constitute as a cameo, and you claim it's a "recurring protagonist"?

 

None of that talks about recurring protagonists. It reads more as them discussing the possibility of two new protagonists rather than one, especially with what Mike Laidlaw says earlier in that exact quote. 

 

Gasping at straws again. Nothing in what they said implies in any measure that what they mean applies only to two new protagonists.

 

Besides: Darrah did mention Leliana's song - didn't he? Who is she other than not a recurring character?

 

How is it selective evidence? I even asked you to provide counter-evidence. And it is evidence. Bioware has inspired no confidence, so there is nothing mindlessly pessimistic about it, but rather it is being realistic. If they prove me wrong, great. I hope they do. But I see no reason to think that until they can prove they can do it. 

 

Selective evidence - when you're talking things like a letter from HoF in DAI and claim that it's a recurring protagonist, or use an example of a different character from years back that is not even part of DA, nor has been written by current DA writing team (with new lead writer and all...)

 

That's a textbook example of selective evidence right there.

 

In any case - I don't think there's any point discussing that issue further here...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Gasping at straws again. Nothing in what they said implies in any measure that what they mean applies only to two new protagonists.

 

Besides: Darrah did mention Leliana's song - didn't he? Who is she other than not a recurring character?

Since literally the paragraph before(which you cut out) he talks about how he likes having new protagonists every game since then they don't have to deal with the consequences of the choices from previous games, at least immediately. If when talking about multiple protagonists he was including recurring protagonists, he just contradicted himself. 

 

She was a character that the player had no influence over and a protagonist that had no influence on the world around her during the events of the main game, in a DLC that was completely separate from it. Joker in Mass Effect 2 was more of a multiple protagonist than her, and all he did was run a linear path to a single outcome.

 

Selective evidence - when you're talking things like a letter from HoF in DAI and claim that it's a recurring protagonist, or use an example of a different character from years back that is not even part of DA, nor has been written by current DA writing team (with new lead writer and all...)

 

That's a textbook example of selective evidence right there.

 

In any case - I don't think there's any point discussing that issue further here...

You critique me about selective evidence, and yet only post the part of a bigger answer that supports your notion out of context. Then accuse someone of grasping at straws when they have evidence backing them(even with just Hawke) while you oppose it while having nothing to support your position. If anyone is grasping at straws, it is you. 

 

Yeah, I think we're done. Neither of us will concede to the other's position. 

[Former_Fiend]

Even if we got to play the Inquisitor for *one* Solas-related mission (since unless his veil spell takes ten years to cast or something, I can't see how they'll avoid that plotline next game?) I would be happy. I definitely won't be if the Inquisitor is reduced to a chain of letters or a cameo where she or he spouts off dialogue that may or may not be in character. They'd have to ask for some pretty specific customization to make Inquisitor-as-NPC work . . .

That being said, I'm really hoping that the next main character will be a Tevinter native from more humble beginnings . . . but I don't want this character to be the one dealing with Solas in the end, because she will have no personal connection to him at all.

 

You know, that's actually a very real possibility. When discussing ancient elven magic, he talks about how some spells would take years to cast.

[Former_Fiend]

I want the Inquisitor for DA4 , and technically he wouldn't be Inquisitor anymore , since the Inquisition is disbanded or its leader is now the Divine.

 

Why?

Well simply because Trespasser set the Inquisitor as the driving force against Solas "I'll destroy everything" plans.

I don't want to deal with Solas in 2030 , so I'd rather see it done in DA4.

And I don't want to play some random guy who fight Solas for some random reasons.

I have zero interest in playing 2 PC , I have zero interest in the Inquisitor being a OOC NPC , I have zero interest in reading ridiculous codex about why the Inquisitor can't be here.

 

When I learned Hawke was in DAI , I started to cringe.After a while I thought , well there's no need to be like that perhaps it's going to be a good idea and I will enjoy it.

I did not enjoy it.

 

Hawke and the warden have been clumsily dragged through the game for a couple of years now , one was shipped to the West , and the other was shipped to Weisshaupt...

 I still remember the DA2 sequel bait "The warden and Hawke have disappeared dun dun dun!"

DAI "it was a coincidence , lol!"

 

Honestly you have no idea how happy I was that it was a coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I had fully bought into the idea that the two disappearing was related and that Flemeth or whoever had kidnapped them for some sinister purpose, but as soon as it got revealed, "Nah, Hawke's just in hiding and the Warden has sh*t to do", I was like, "You know what? Good." Not everything needs to be a grand conspiracy. 

 

Though I did question as to why Cassandra was so enraged Varric lied about knowing where Hawke was, but didn't seem to care that Leliana had at the least known how to contact the Warden the whole time and played dumb about it. I get that Cassandra was more focused on Hawke as Inquisitor, but Leliana not telling her about the Warden struck me as a greater violation of trust.

[Sifr]

That being said, I'm really hoping that the next main character will be a Tevinter native from more humble beginnings . . . but I don't want this character to be the one dealing with Solas in the end, because she will have no personal connection to him at all.

 

From how they handled Hawke, I'm not hopeful.

 

I mean, Hawke had far more of a personal connection to Corypheus than the Inquisitor did and repeatedly expressed their determination to help us finish the job they started back in Legacy. If they'd had Hawke stay on as a hidden companion, an agent or just a temporary companion that accompanied us on the final mission (like Morrigan in the Temple of Mythal), it would have made perfect sense story-wise.

 

But instead, Hawke gets either a bridge dropped on them or put on a bus to Weisshaupt.

 

[Reznore57]

Honestly you have no idea how happy I was that it was a coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I had fully bought into the idea that the two disappearing was related and that Flemeth or whoever had kidnapped them for some sinister purpose, but as soon as it got revealed, "Nah, Hawke's just in hiding and the Warden has sh*t to do", I was like, "You know what? Good." Not everything needs to be a grand conspiracy. 

 

The fact it was a coincidence is fine.

What isn't fine is this thing was the sequel bait at the end of DA2 , it was the last important scene of the story ...and it lead nowhere.

 

Something worst happened with Witch Hunt , Morrigan claims she knows what Flemeth is , claims Flemeth isn't looking for immortality but something far worst related to the Blight.

DAI Morrigan has a huge brain fart , she has no idea what's an old god except it's old and powerful , she has no idea what Flemeth is , the only accusation she throws at Flemeth is all about stealing bodies and immortality.

Nothing Blight related.

It's like Witch Hunt never happened.

 

Corypheus in Legacy , he's looking for the "Light" and he says someone tricked them into the Golden City "you offered the power of the Gods themselves."

In DAI he wants to go back to the Black CIty because somehow this will turn him into a god.No more talk of Light , no wondering what trolled him in the first place.

 

This + Hawke saying stuff like "Cory is mine" and deciding for no good reason to go to Weisshaupt ...

 

I'm not holding my breath for DA4 , it doesn't mean I won't enjoy the game , but I know I'll get disappointed again with whatever they're going to do with Inqui /Solas.

[midnight tea]

Since literally the paragraph before(which you cut out) he talks about how he likes having new protagonists every game since then they don't have to deal with the consequences of the choices from previous games, at least immediately. If when talking about multiple protagonists he was including recurring protagonists, he just contradicted himself. 

 

There's no contradiction here - he touches as to why they're switching protagonists with each major chapter, but the idea of multiple protagonists has been tackled in a separate paragraph and nowhere there it mentions or specifies that he *specifically* means "two new characters".

 

You also completely ignore Darrah's response, that directly contradicts what you're trying to say - they've already experimented with different PoV. What's more, it's a PoV of a recurring character (specifically, Leliana). So there's no point in claiming that they would not at least consider experimenting with different PoVs for another game, or outright discard the idea like that of multiple protags (one new, one recurring).

 

/eot

[Xilizhra]

From how they handled Hawke, I'm not hopeful.

 

I mean, Hawke had far more of a personal connection to Corypheus than the Inquisitor did and repeatedly expressed their determination to help us finish the job they started back in Legacy. If they'd had Hawke stay on as a hidden companion, an agent or just a temporary companion that accompanied us on the final mission (like Morrigan in the Temple of Mythal), it would have made perfect sense story-wise.

 

But instead, Hawke gets either a bridge dropped on them or put on a bus to Weisshaupt.

 

Actually...

 

Spoiler

IIRC, Hawke comes back to Kirkwall at the end of Trespasser.

[Sifr]

Actually...

 

Spoiler

IIRC, Hawke comes back to Kirkwall at the end of Trespasser.

 

Which was something I suppose, but still doesn't make up for how they made Hawke suddenly go all Poochie on us;

 

"I must go now, The Fade/Weisshaupt needs me..."

 

[Eivuwan]

You know, that's actually a very real possibility. When discussing ancient elven magic, he talks about how some spells would take years to cast.

 

I doubt it for this situation though. He basically said Inquisitor should enjoy the next few years implying that things will end in that time.

[Former_Fiend]

I doubt it for this situation though. He basically said Inquisitor should enjoy the next few years implying that things will end in that time.

 

Yeah, but we are talking about a guy who used to be immortal. His definition of "a few" could easily be extended up until a decade.

 

Failing that, his plans haven't exactly gone... to plan up until here. Who's to say he doesn't hit some more snags that slow his progress.

[Eivuwan]

Yeah, but we are talking about a guy who used to be immortal. His definition of "a few" could easily be extended up until a decade.

 

Failing that, his plans haven't exactly gone... to plan up until here. Who's to say he doesn't hit some more snags that slow his progress.

 

I would prefer that they won't make him into a bumbling idiot in the next game. It would be way more interesting if Solas and the player try to out trick or out strategize each other.

[Homeboundcrib]

The way everything has played out I'm
Guessing his plans will happen, solas says enjoy the next few years. I don't think it would happen years and years down the track.

[Former_Fiend]

I would prefer that they won't make him into a bumbling idiot in the next game. It would be way more interesting if Solas and the player try to out trick or out strategize each other.

 

There is a middle ground between bumbling idiot and villain sue.

 

Granted I don't know if Bioware has mastered walking that line yet.

[Steelcan]

There is a middle ground between bumbling idiot and villain sue.

 

Granted I don't know if Bioware has mastered walking that line yet.

I'm not sure we've really had any villain sues recently

[Former_Fiend]

I'm not sure we've really had any villain sues recently

 

They tend to go in the other direction, was my meaning.

[Ryzaki]

I miss master Li. That was masterful.

 

But that relied on the antagonist and the protagonist having a relationship. You can't really get that without it.

[Tielis]

It's not pessimism, just looking at facts. So far their track record is 0 when it comes to portraying past protagonists well. I have no reason to think they will handle the Inquisitor well, especially since the Inquisitor is even trickier than Hawke is. 

 

I agree, it looks like they're going to do what they've always done.  

 

Considering the Trespasser cliffhanger and how much they've done to get us really invested in the Inquisitor's emotions regarding Solas, I think this is just plain bad writing.  It's almost as if they're punishing us for caring.

 

Come on, Mr. Weekes, you can do better than that.

[midnight tea]

I agree, it looks like they're going to do what they've always done.  

 

Considering the Trespasser cliffhanger and how much they've done to get us really invested in the Inquisitor's emotions regarding Solas, I think this is just plain bad writing.  It's almost as if they're punishing us for caring.

 

Come on, Mr. Weekes, you can do better than that.

 

Here's the thing - they haven't *always* done it: the inclusion of previous protagonist (Hawke) in greater capacity than some mentions of letters was their very first attempt, just like it was their very first attempt at open world RPG, and they've already made improvements in JoH when it comes to implementation of that.

 

And really - the DA4 isn't yet in production, so how can anyone judge anyone for "bad writing" especially when it comes to possible Inky involvement? Really, such amounts of pessimism are unwarranted.

[Tielis]

Here's the thing - they haven't *always* done it: the inclusion of previous protagonist (Hawke) in greater capacity than some mentions of letters was their very first attempt.

 

And really - the DA4 isn't yet in production, so how can anyone judge anyone for "bad writing" especially when it comes to possible Inky involvement? Really, such amounts of pessimism are unwarranted.

 

Well I, for one, am very very tired of being optimistic about any recent BioWare games only to be disappointed in the future.  But that's just me.  

 

Yes, that includes this game.  I enjoyed a lot of it, but I was also very disappointed in a lot of it.

[midnight tea]

Well I, for one, am very very tired of being optimistic about any recent BioWare games only to be disappointed in the future.  But that's just me.  

 

Yes, that includes this game.  I enjoyed a lot of it, but I was also very disappointed in a lot of it.

 

There's always going to be some form of disappointment - but like I said, judging DA4, either unreasonably favorably or unfavorably, while the title hasn't yet been greenlit is pointless. We can voice our expectations or opinions, but at the end DA4 will be what it will be. After what I saw in DAI though, and expecting EA to be generous with time and money to realize their vision after good job done in terms of profits (and work on Frostbite done, and old-gen dropped), I'm actually on the reasonably optimistic side.

[d1ta]

I pick dual protagonist (with the new protagonist taking the much MUCH bigger slice of the pie) maybe slightly larger content than Hawke..

Or Inquisitor returning as cameo, only as long as I get to be incharge of her dialogue wheel.

There are 2 things that that I'm wary about making the Inquisitor as the next protag in DA4:
1. Bringing her/him back will usually spawn the endless "why (insert companion name) should be back with the Inquisitor". Especially those NPC that has a LI status on them. Remember clearly those times in ME2 (old crew vs new faces) and ME3 (where some complained their favourite characters got shafted). Those days. Don't want. Because a carry over of the Inquisitor would also mean a carry over of her/his choices,friends and especially relationship.

2. What BW might do to the Inquisitor. I dont want to log in to her then say: "Hey, my Inqui would NEVER do/say these kind of things.. this is just not 'her'.." (*cough*my pro alliance girl turn to cerberus *cough*)