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Poll for who people want for their DA4 protagonist.


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#301
Tielis

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There's always going to be some form of disappointment - but like I said, judging DA4, either unreasonably favorably or unfavorably, while the title hasn't yet been greenlit is pointless. We can voice our expectations or opinions, but at the end DA4 will be what it will be. After what I saw in DAI though, and expecting EA to be generous with time and money to realize their vision after good job done in terms of profits (and work on Frostbite done, and old-gen dropped), I'm actually on the reasonably optimistic side.

 

And I think you're just fooling yourself.  It wouldn't be the first time that EAWare values cool new amazing lameass mechanics over a compelling story.  But to each his or her own.  :)



#302
midnight tea

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And I think you're just fooling yourself.  It wouldn't be the first time that EAWare values cool new amazing lameass mechanics over a compelling story.  But to each his or her own.   :)

 

I'm not really sure how "careful optimism" is "fooling oneself" especially compared to depths cynicism I usually find on BSN (which is "fooling oneself" as well, don't think it isn't - what's more, it's way more tiring in the long run, for everyone). 

 

I may have had some issues with DAI (or EA), but I really liked it overall and I like the promise of where it may be going - I also see no reason why I should give in to cynicism "because EA", when they actually have BW additional time to develop DAI and praised it for what it accomplished, giving hope that they'd be willing to give it as much time as it'd need to grow into something really nice. Especially considering that BW managed to cram in races and interesting romances that added actual depth to the whole thing thanks to that extended development period, so I can't see how that decision promoted "lameass mechanics over a compelling story"... Quite the opposite, methinks.



#303
Tielis

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I'm not really sure how "careful optimism" is "fooling oneself" especially compared to depths cynicism I usually find on BSN (which is "fooling oneself" as well, don't think it isn't - what's more, it's way more tiring in the long run, for everyone). 

 

I may have had some issues with DAI (or EA), but I really liked it overall and I like the promise of where it may be going - I also see no reason why I should give in to cynicism "because EA", when they actually have BW additional time to develop DAI and praised it for what it accomplished, giving hope that they'd be willing to give it as much time as it'd need to grow into something really nice. Especially considering that BW managed to cram in races and interesting romances that added actual depth to the whole thing thanks to that extended development period, so I can't see how that decision promoted "lameass mechanics over a compelling story"... Quite the opposite, methinks.

 

Just imagine the story that could have been created if they didn't spend so much time making the huge pointless areas and multiplayer...

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the exploration, but it's just too much and takes away from the story.  And don't get me started on multiplayer.  I like multiplayer, but that it was clearly placed ahead of single player in development importance still riles me up.



#304
midnight tea

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Just imagine the story that could have been created if they didn't spend so much time making the huge pointless areas and multiplayer...

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the exploration, but it's just too much and takes away from the story.  And don't get me started on multiplayer.  I like multiplayer, but that it was clearly placed ahead of single player in development importance still riles me up.

 

Yes, and you realize that now that they have all the groundwork done (I don't see them changing their course from making huge, not necessarily pointless, areas), they don't have to spend money and resources developing everything form the scratch anyway? That, and even more things now are being developed and tested further with MEA.

 

So now, it seems to me (from my untrained perspective at least) it's time for refinement. They've already proven that they've tightened their grip on better storytelling in open-world area with JOH and they've shown how well they can tie things up or expand with Trespasser, so... yeah, at this point, I don't really see reason why I should be cynical about DA4.



#305
AllThatJazz

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I agree, it looks like they're going to do what they've always done.  

 

Considering the Trespasser cliffhanger and how much they've done to get us really invested in the Inquisitor's emotions regarding Solas, I think this is just plain bad writing.  It's almost as if they're punishing us for caring.

 

Come on, Mr. Weekes, you can do better than that.

Well, I think Trespasser had fantastic writing, but I agree that it would be plain bad storytelling to not capitalise on that in a way that allows the Inquisitor agency, and us control over the Inquisitor. I really want to be on Midnight Tea's Optimism boat (which is a fantastic mindset, and your posts are always a joy to read, Tea), but I can't help but feel pessimistic after PW's comments about the new protag being his favourite thing about DA. I kind of feel it's like he saw some of the debates here and this was his way of letting us down 'gently' well in advance. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and that there remains a chance for the Inquisitor to be a secondary (not sole!) protag in the next game, because to do otherwise would just, in my view, be a horrible waste.

 

Wall of text incoming!

 

The below assumes a Solas plotline in the next game. If there isn't one, it is irrelevant. These are the various options for an Inquisitor appearance and what I can tell are the problems with them.

 

1. No Inquisitor at all. What was the point of setting up Solas as a personal antagonist then, or the save/stop option? My new character won't have any of that knowledge or motivation and won't see Solas as anything other than a one-dimensional Big Bad who needs to die. I roleplay my protags from their perspective, not mine as a player. Why should my Inquisition agent (or whatever) give a rat's arse that her boss has been shagging Solas and wants to save him? If anything, my new protag is going to take a pretty dim view of the fact that the former Inquisitor seems emotionally compromised :/ To have the Inquisitor not even appear would be a massive waste of an amazing storytelling opportunity to make Solas the next really great Bioware antagonist like Irenicus and Master Li.

 

2. Computer controlled cameo that deals with Solas. Takes agency away from new protag by not letting them have the final say, but also takes agency from players as a whole by giving control to an NPC at an important moment. Very unsatisfying from a gameplay pov. Also, given how 'blank slate' the Inquisitor is, is also very difficult to implement as a NPC in a way that satisfies. There are so many different ways of responding to Solas in Trespasser (angry, sad, sympathetic, dismissive, supportive, horrified, a mixture of all these, romanced/non romanced, high/low approval) - how is a 'blanket' cameo supposed to work? Hawke was much easier to implement (dominant tone etc) yet still wasn't perfect in many cases.

 

3. Computer controlled cameo that responds to whatever the new protag does, but takes no direct action. This is maybe fine for those players that have the very simplistic approach to Solas of 'he's bad. kill him' and who only want the one outcome for him (his death) and don't care who strikes the blow, or for those who feel no connection with the character at all. But for players/characters who have a slightly more nuanced relationship (not just romances!) or want variable outcomes, or feel strongly about the character, this is tremendously unsatisfying. It has the same problem as no.1 where the Inquisitor's connection with Solas, and choice in how to deal with him is effectively rendered meaningless in favour of the new protag's agency. So again, why bother with establishing a personal relationship between Inq/Solas? Why not just leave it until DA4 and then try to establish something between the new protag and Solas? It's a waste of character development.

 

4. Small cameo in which player controls Inquisitor in the final conversation to deal with Solas. Really jarring. You spend no time playing as the Inquisitor all the way through the game, then to suddenly switch to them at the end? How confusing would this be for new players? Also, it (once again) takes agency from the new protagonist, and gives it to an old one who we haven't spent any time as in this current game. Bad from a gameplay point of view, bad for those who want their new protag in control of their story, awkward for everyone.

 

Dunno, they just all sound really lame to me. Maybe I'm missing some super imaginative way of going about it.

 

To my mind, the only way to preserve both the 'new protag every game' thing, but also capitalise on the Inquisitor/Solas connection, is to have the Inquisitor appear as a Ciri-like secondary protagonist, in a far more minor capacity than the new guy, but who still plays enough of a (player controlled) role to allow us to re-establish a connection with our former character, and allows a new player to get used to them. The Inquisitor gets agency over the Solas plotline, the new protag has complete agency over the parallel storyline. It's more difficult for Bioware logistically, yes, and it would take some good writing to pull off well (interweaving stories etc), but Patrick Weekes is a very good writer (and there are other terrific writers on the DA team too, like Lukas Kristjanson), and I just ... struggle to see how it will work satisfactorily otherwise.

 

I think they could do it, and with enough dev time, do it well. But I've honestly lost most of my hope that they will, and with it, a ton of my enthusiasm for the next game. I've no doubt I'll get over it, and play DA4 and enjoy it well enough, albeit with a sense of 'what a waste'. But at the moment, I'm kind of in a 'well, this sucks' sort of mood.


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