304 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Something tells me you will be disappointed then. The writers are doing their hardest to make Solas this tragic character that you sympathize with.

 

And thus far, they have failed.

[Jaison1986]

And thus far, they have failed.

 

Opinion. I think they wrote his character well. And there are people here who would agree with that.

[Nixou]

And thus far, they have failed.

 

Oh but they succeeded: their goal wasn't to make everyone in their audience sympathize with Solas: it was to make as many people as possible personally invested in seeing the completion of Solas' tale.

 

The people who want to redeem Solas and/or reunite him with his Dalish girlfriend will buy the next game because they want to know how the story end and hope for a tale of redemption. The people who see Solas as maniac with delusions of grandeur who needs to be put down will buy the next game because they want to know how the story end and hope to see the mad wolf bite the dust. Regardless, they are now a captive audience of paying customers: mission accomplished.

[AllThatJazz]

And thus far, they have failed.

So why wouldn't a dual protag work for you then? You could have an entire storyline that has little to nothing to do with Solas (as a new protag), while at the same time those of us who do enjoy his character get some closure (Inquisitor path). Also, assuming the 'stop Solas' storyline is given justice, you could presumably treat him as harshly as you wish, only as the Inquisitor. Works for everyone, seems to me. 

 

Edit: I do get it actually. I think that those who want to kill Solas, who don't see him as a tragic character, are perhaps more likely to want a new protag to deal with him. Because there is really no reason for a new protag to want to do anything other than kill him, precisely because there is no relationship there beyond 'Big Bad. Murder Knife'. Whereas those of us who would prefer to 'save' Solas would maybe rather do so as the Inquisitor, because it can only really be the Inquisitor who has the motivation to do so. 

[riverbanks]

Something tells me you will be disappointed then. The writers are doing their hardest to make Solas this tragic character that you sympathize with.

 

They are certainly writing Solas into a tragic character, but not necessarily one you must sympathize with - you can, but you don't have to, and both have the same weight to the game. The new Trespasser tiles at the Keep even specifically differentiate whether your Inquisitor wants to redeem or defeat Solas, to allow players to decide for themselves how to feel about him.

[Jaison1986]

They are certainly writing Solas into a tragic character, but not necessarily one you must sympathize with - you can, but you don't have to, and both have the same weight to the game. The new Trespasser tiles at the Keep even specifically differentiate whether your Inquisitor wants to redeem or defeat Solas, to allow players to decide for themselves how to feel about him.

 

Oh, I'm not saying people HAVE to sympathize with Solas. Just that the writing of his character push for that direction. Of course, people can still refuse to see him that way if they want to.

[Former_Fiend]

Opinion. I think they wrote his character well. And there are people here who would agree with that.

 

I never said he wasn't a well written maniac suffering from messiah and martyr complexes. And I fully understand why others might sympathize with him.

 

But personally I find him to be the least sympathetic antagonist we've had thus far in the series. I find Loghain, the Arishock, even Corypheus and the Archdemon more tragic. Then only one I'd rank Solas above on that scale is Meredith, and that's mainly because I don't think about Meredith much.

 

So if the goal was to get me to sympathize with Solas, they failed. But like riverbanks said, I don't think that was the goal. I think the goal was to give me the option to, and it's an option I didn't take.

 

 

So why wouldn't a dual protag work for you then? You could have an entire storyline that has little to nothing to do with Solas (as a new protag), while at the same time those of us who do enjoy his character get some closure (Inquisitor path). Also, assuming the 'stop Solas' storyline is given justice, you could presumably treat him as harshly as you wish, only as the Inquisitor. Works for everyone, seems to me. 

 

I could live with that, maybe. I just see that as working as well or better with the Inquisitor being a major none playable character instead of a secondary PC.

[AllThatJazz]

 

 

I could live with that, maybe. I just see that as working as well or better with the Inquisitor being a major none playable character instead of a secondary PC.

I think the problem with that is one of sophistication, and the sheer number of variables in how a (particularly) friendshipped or romanced Inquisitor related to Solas. A romanced Inquisitor (for example) can have had a final conversation with Solas that was angry, sorrowful, slightly pleading, or a mixture. They may have wanted to go with him, but have been turned down. They may have shouted at him for his lack of trust and his underhanded behaviour.

 

How does an NPC account for those variations without some level of player control? Either the Keep is going to have to have a crapton of very deep options (unlikely, let's be honest), or that relationship is going to be reduced to really vague responses, like Hawke's in DA2. Hearing my Hawke (who had been a blood mage) talk about how 'nothing good had ever come from blood magic' was really offputting. I wouldn't like to see that happen again. 

 

So ultimately, the problem with a NPC Inquisitor is that the player has no agency, and so any relationship more complex than 'you bad. Me kill' is inevitably underserved.

[Former_Fiend]

I think the problem with that is one of sophistication, and the sheer number of variables in how a (particularly) friendshipped or romanced Inquisitor related to Solas. A romanced Inquisitor (for example) can have had a final conversation with Solas that was angry, sorrowful, slightly pleading, or a mixture. They may have wanted to go with him, but have been turned down. They may have shouted at him for his lack of trust and his underhanded behaviour.

 

How does an NPC account for those variations without some level of player control? Either the Keep is going to have to have a crapton of very deep options (unlikely, let's be honest), or that relationship is going to be reduced to really vague responses, like Hawke's in DA2. Hearing my Hawke (who had been a blood mage) talk about how 'nothing good had ever come from blood magic' was really offputting. I wouldn't like to see that happen again. 

 

So ultimately, the problem with a NPC Inquisitor is that the player has no agency, and so any relationship more complex than 'you bad. Me kill' is inevitably underserved.

 

Ok, you're starting to convince me.

 

The problem is that it's really starting to kill my enthusiasm for the game. 

 

I was amped up for DA4 after Trespasser. I hadn't been that excited at the prospect of a new game since the fallout 4 announcement - which, granted, was only a few months ago, but still. 

 

But honestly, the more I think about, the more people convince me that it really is about the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas, the less I'm interested.

 

If that really turns out to be the direction they go, I'll just pass on the game and hope the next one is something better.

[AllThatJazz]

Ok, you're starting to convince me.

 

The problem is that it's really starting to kill my enthusiasm for the game. 

 

I was amped up for DA4 after Trespasser. I hadn't been that excited at the prospect of a new game since the fallout 4 announcement - which, granted, was only a few months ago, but still. 

 

But honestly, the more I think about, the more people convince me that it really is about the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas, the less I'm interested.

 

If that really turns out to be the direction they go, I'll just pass on the game and hope the next one is something better.

But that's the beauty of the dual protag! There's an entire storyline there, where you get to create your own new character, one that's at most only tangentially related to Solas, wandering around Tevinter gathering companions etc, doing all the usual stuff. The relationship with Solas doesn't intrude on that, it's a separate, self-contained (and probably much shorter) chapter of the game (or something that weaves in and out, like Geralt/Ciri in TW3) that involves the Inquisitor, but that offers closure to the plotline introduced in Trespasser. 

[Eivuwan]

Ok, you're starting to convince me.

 

The problem is that it's really starting to kill my enthusiasm for the game. 

 

I was amped up for DA4 after Trespasser. I hadn't been that excited at the prospect of a new game since the fallout 4 announcement - which, granted, was only a few months ago, but still. 

 

But honestly, the more I think about, the more people convince me that it really is about the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas, the less I'm interested.

 

If that really turns out to be the direction they go, I'll just pass on the game and hope the next one is something better.

 

Huh? I think the inquisitor's relationship with Solas is an important part of the next game, but I'm sure there will be other plot lines and other marvels to keep you interested.

[AtreiyaN7]

I voted for the Inquisitor and also the dual protagonists thing, but that only applies if the next game deals directly with Solas. At this point, it's the Inquisitor and Solas that do have a friendship/know each other, and I think it would be just a little bit weird if the Inquisitor didn't have some role in stopping him/monitoring him (given the ending of Trespasser).

 

However, it's entirely possible that we go on a side trip to Tevinter and the next game will solely revolve around saving Tevinter itself from imploding or being conquered by the qunari, in which case we'd deal with Solas in some future game further down the line. If this turns out to be so, then we might as well have a different protagonist in the next game (EDIT: I'd still prefer my Quizzy, but I also wouldn't have a problem with a new protagonist).

[Former_Fiend]

But that's the beauty of the dual protag! There's an entire storyline there, where you get to create your own new character, one that's at most only tangentially related to Solas, wandering around Tevinter gathering companions etc, doing all the usual stuff. The relationship with Solas doesn't intrude on that, it's a separate, self-contained (and probably much shorter) chapter of the game (or something that weaves in and out, like Geralt/Ciri in TW3) that involves the Inquisitor, but that offers closure to the plotline introduced in Trespasser. 

 

I don't like it. Lacks focus. 

 

Not to mention my inquisitor is unplayable now because he used two handed weapons and only has one arm left. And don't feed me any of that artificial limb bull.

 

So unless the only time I'm controlling the Inquisitor is in conversations, I just don't want it.

[themikefest]

I like to have the Inquisitor return as the main character in the next DA game though I wouldn't have a problem if a new main character is introduced

[riverbanks]

But honestly, the more I think about, the more people convince me that it really is about the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas, the less I'm interested.

 

If that really turns out to be the direction they go, I'll just pass on the game and hope the next one is something better.

 

I wouldn't be discouraged so early on, when we're at least a few good years away from any sequel. People want to believe that DA4 will be all about an epic clash between Solas and the Inquisitor, but we seriously don't know that yet. We don't know anything about the next game. Again, after DAO a lot of people really, truly believed DA2 would have to be all about some epic clash between the Warden and Morrigan because there was nowhere else the series could go, and look at how that went down. They'll go where they want to.

 

We can all guess around all we want, but at the end of the day, no one but the devs know anything about the next game yet.

[AllThatJazz]

I don't like it. Lacks focus. 

 

Not to mention my inquisitor is unplayable now because he used two handed weapons and only has one arm left. And don't feed me any of that artificial limb bull.

 

So unless the only time I'm controlling the Inquisitor is in conversations, I just don't want it.

That's a shame, I thought it worked really well in GTAV, I thought it worked in Witcher 3 (though admittedly I would have liked more Ciri). I thought dual protags worked well in the Broken Sword games too. It only lacks focus if the stories don't work well enough together, which I don't think is a given.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the limb thing. DA is a setting full of magic and magical tech. We're friends with one of the greatest Dwarven craftswomen of her time - someone who put the Sulevin Blade back together, who neutralised a powerful set of lyrium armour, who is so 'in tune' with the stone that she briefly remembered what it was like to be part of a Titan. Honestly, I think she can put together a false hand that allows for a greatsword. But ymmv I guess

[Former_Fiend]

That's a shame, I thought it worked really well in GTAV, I thought it worked in Witcher 3 (though admittedly I would have liked more Ciri). I thought dual protags worked well in the Broken Sword games too. It only lacks focus if the stories don't work well enough together, which I don't think is a given.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the limb thing. DA is a setting full of magic and magical tech. We're friends with one of the greatest Dwarven craftswomen of her time - someone who put the Sulevin Blade back together, who neutralised a powerful set of lyrium armour, who is so 'in tune' with the stone that she briefly remembered what it was like to be part of a Titan. Honestly, I think she can put together a false hand that allows for a greatsword. But ymmv I guess

 

I do love GTA V. Haven't played the Witcher series and honestly have no desire to. But GTA V is one of my favorite games. But just the way Bioware makes games, I don't see that working.

 

And I'm sticking to my position on the arm because I want my Inquisitor's fighting days to be behind him. I want him to be done with this and have to find someone else to do it.  

[Former_Fiend]

I wouldn't be discouraged so early on, when we're at least a few good years away from any sequel. People want to believe that DA4 will be all about an epic clash between Solas and the Inquisitor, but we seriously don't know that yet. We don't know anything about the next game. Again, after DAO a lot of people really, truly believed DA2 would have to be all about some epic clash between the Warden and Morrigan because there was nowhere else the series could go, and look at how that went down. They'll go where they want to.

 

We can all guess around all we want, but at the end of the day, no one but the devs know anything about the next game yet.

 

Or how everyone was sure DAI was going to be all about the Mage/Templar war when that ended up being taken care of in the first act.

 

You're right, of course. My enthusiasm has been curbed, but not eliminated. Still, if they do announce the Inquisitor is the primary protagonist again, I'll probably pass on the game.

[Eivuwan]

 

I do love GTA V. Haven't played the Witcher series and honestly have no desire to. But GTA V is one of my favorite games. But just the way Bioware makes games, I don't see that working.

 

And I'm sticking to my position on the arm because I want my Inquisitor's fighting days to be behind him. I want him to be done with this and have to find someone else to do it.  

 

Mordin Solus quote “Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.”

 

I just don't see how inquisitor can trust someone else for this world ending event especially since he/she knows Solas better than anyone.

[Former_Fiend]

Mordin Solus quote “Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.”

 

I just don't see how inquisitor can trust someone else for this world ending event especially since he/she knows Solas better than anyone.

 

Well at this point I'm kind of hoping Solas kills the Inquisitor in the first act while the new protagonist watches. Big NO! optional.

[Eivuwan]

Well at this point I'm kind of hoping Solas kills the Inquisitor in the first act while the new protagonist watches. Big NO! optional.

 

I'm 99.99999999999999% sure this won't happen lol.

[Former_Fiend]

Would sort of solve everything, going back to the Obi-Wan analogy. 

[jlb524]

Mordin Solus quote “Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.”
 
I just don't see how inquisitor can trust someone else for this world ending event especially since he/she knows Solas better than anyone.

I don't see much difference from Hawke not being able to be the one to deal with Coryphenus in DAI when Hawke was the one that knew more about him. Hawke also had more of an emotional investment in bringing down Cory but what we got instead was a pretty crappy cameo and Hawke couldn't even be present at the final battle.

Don't get me started on the Warden being absent from stuff in DAI (Flemeth/Morrigan final showdown, for example).

[Eivuwan]

I don't see much difference from Hawke not being able to be the one to deal with Coryphenus in DAI when Hawke was the one that knew more about him. Hawke also had more of an emotional investment in bringing down Cory but what we got instead was a pretty crappy cameo and Hawke couldn't even be present at the final battle.

Don't get me started on the Warden being absent from stuff in DAI (Flemeth/Morrigan final showdown, for example).

 

It's different considering that Corypheus was a dlc, but Solas was a companion and in the final dlc as well.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm starting to think I might just hate the Inquisitor. 

 

I didn't think I did. I had thought I liked the Inquisitor well enough; not as much as the Warden but at least as much as Hawke, if not more.

 

But really, more I think about it, I think I just want to move away from the Inquisition and everything it stood for. I didn't get to be the Inquisitor I wanted to be. The quote in my signature? I didn't get to come anywhere close to being that guy. I hated the Inquisition as an organization and I hated being strapped to it.

 

And it's not even the railroading. I love the Wardens.

 

I just want to move away from the Inquisitor. I want something new and I want someone new.