723 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

@SomeoneStoleMyName:

I fully agree when you say we place too much importance on gender. I also don't say your behaviour is *determined* by your physical gender to any degree, only *influenced*. Lastly, as much as culture and society can condition you into certain roles, they can also help you overcome your biological programming to some extent.

 

All I'm saying is that such biological programming exists. I'm not saying it determines you completely, I'm not saying it can't be overcome, and I'm most definitely *not* saying it's sacrosanct in any way. Change your physical body as much as you want, I'll even help you along because I believe that any morphological freedom we can attain for ourselves is desirable, and if the result is one that dispenses with the idea of gender altogether, no matter, it's your life and you have the damned right to do with your body whatever you want. Just don't pretend our biological roots are unimportant. Maybe they will be one day, by our own doing. But as of now, they are not. The physical is the root of our existence and it's never irrelevant. Whatever we make of ourselves, even if we dispense with our biological inheritance altogether, that's unlikely to change.

 

So, *should* we be able to make gender irrelevant? Absolutely, 100%. I just find it delusional to believe we can do it by just ignoring our biology.

[Nefla]

I'm weird. It takes a lot for me to play a game where I'm forced to play a male but 8 times out of 10 when given a choice I'll play male.

 

I don't understand myself.

I'm the same way. I think for me it's that in games where you get a gender choice, you also get to define your character's personality so you can make a male character but one who is expressive, sympathetic, and is generally a character you like vs most forced male protagonist games where the protagonist is little more than a set of big, muscly hands holding a gun or sword.

[Ryzaki]

I'm the same way. I think for me it's that in games where you get a gender choice, you also get to define your character's personality so you can make a male character but one who is expressive, sympathetic, and is generally a character you like vs most forced male protagonist games where the protagonist is little more than a set of big, muscly hands holding a gun or sword.

 

Yeah that might be it.

[Majestic Jazz]

Speaking as a fat woman, I tend to assume people who resort to 'yeah, well, you're fat!' have run out of real arguments. If you have a problem with someone's behaviour, criticising their appearance is generally beside the point.

 

If one has to resort to attacking your physical appearance, gender, age, or race then it is clear that they have lost or is losing said argument or cannot find a meaningful point to progress the debate/argument.

[sylvanaerie]

On the topic, lots of players have responded with many reasons why they might play a character not their gender, or even why they prefer playing a female Inquisitor/Warden/Hawke.  As a woman I prefer playing females as I just relate to them better, but if I want to see content that may not be available to female characters, I'll make a male.

 

For me, it has to do with seeing different scenes/dialogues, who is romanceable.  So far I've played the game and completed it exactly three times.  2 female inquisitors (who romanced BW and Cullen), one male (for the Dorian romance).  I am currently trying to finish a fourth play (though that will probably get restarted) with a male human romancing Cass.  This has nothing to do with Cass as a character, I adore her, I just am tired of humans and feel confident I can make a male qunari who may not be gorgeous, but at least won't want me to gouge out my eyes with a spork.  Also I ill-chose templars as my alliance this game and finding it really difficult to get into the story.

 

And all three of those characters made different choices each game just to see as much content as I can.

[berelinde]

I'm weird. It takes a lot for me to play a game where I'm forced to play a male but 8 times out of 10 when given a choice I'll play male.

 

I don't understand myself.

That isn't as irrational as you might think. Many people will voluntarily choose an option they would reject if it were mandatory. I'm like that myself about playing a religious Andrastian. I've got 8 devout Andrastian Inquisitors (and 3 non-believers), but I would not have bought the game at all if we were obligated to play Andrastians.

[Amirit]

Roleplaying isn't about imagining the character is you, it's about imagining you are the character.

But according to Bioware's statistics, male inquisitors outnumber female two to one.

 

Could you please share the link on that statistic?! I have no doubts in your words just want to see the rest of it! Please!!

[Heathen Oxman]

I often play as a male on account of my inability to create a decent-looking female.

 

And my males usually end-up as prettier than my females.

[sjsharp2011]

I'm male but I have to admit that 3 of my 4 quizzy's so far have been female. I think it's moer the fact I prefer the female voice optoins for this game over the male ones. Although having said that my male quizzy is the only one of the 4 to have done all the DLC's. But that's more down to the fact the DLC's weren't out when I did my fem quizzy's. Was planning to do it a;ll with my next quizzy which wil be female again.

[Ieldra]

Could you please share the link on that statistic?! I have no doubts in your words just want to see the rest of it! Please!!

Here you are.

[BansheeOwnage]

Sorry this turned out WAY longer than I meant to Will leave it here if people are bored enough to read it. English is not my native language so I hope I managed to convey this as intended.

 

Always been curious if being a different gender would change my behaviour as to "who I am". Primarily because I personally find the idea of gender importance for personality - as something culturally and socially determined and artificial. As in - the extremely polarized gender roles for behaviour are not natural but artificially created by humans. I always found it silly personally that many people put such an enormous importance on gender when it comes to personal identity. 

 

So if males and females were brought up from children and up in an environment completely closed out from the influence of modern society - the differences in gender would be lessened dramatically, and the equality of genders would increase dramatically (seeing as if the control group were raised neutral of gender). I wanted to explore if being another gender would change me, it didnt. Further proving my theory that gender roles are artificially polarized by social and cultural values, traditions and upbringing.

 

It all started when my mother asked me when I was younger - when I would start drinking coffee to "grow up", and when someone told me I should take an interest in sports and cars (in which I had no interest) by saying "be a man!" in half-jest. As I could not logically see any correlation between coffee, sports, cars and masculinity or "being a man" as someone put it - I realized that something as trivial cars - an object for transportation - is actually something people couple with gender identity (which I found bizarre). It was further puzzling to me as physical strength is an obsolete survival trait in civilized countries. If in a parallel universe men were the ones using makeup and women never shaved their legs, then the gender identity would be different but still due to factors which serves no natural function.

 

Conclusion: I started playing female characters in RPGs as myself as a social experiment to discover if my thesis that gender identity is artificial and not natural is correct. After 15 years of doing so I can say that core identity was unaffected by putting me in the opposite gender and that all problems or situations I've encountered due to gender were all applied externally and not internally.

 

Ofcourse an experiment like this does not take into account real life situations and only takes one side of the coin into account (male -> female). But I'm positive that if children of both sexes were raised on a colony on Mars where men and women were raised completely equal and neutral as to gender role, there would be little to no differences or views on the opposite gender. In other words, gender polarization when it comes to personal identity is naturally minimal but has been maximized in the minds of humans due to culture, society and tradition. And in a perfect world - gender would not be a primary personal identity attribute. This goes for males wanting to be females, females wanting to be males, males feeling the need to be "more male/masculine" and females feeling the need to be "more female/feminine". All in all, it started as an experiment over a decade ago and I still do it out of habit due to an insatiable need for more "data".

 

Just kidding just wanted a pretty behind to look at while I play lol. 

 

Spoiler

That last line was a joke

Well said and interesting.

[BansheeOwnage]

Not really. Oestrogen, progesterone, etc. have an enormous impact on behaviour, as do androgens. People who undergo hormone therapy for transgender purposes can attest to this. Of course, what "counts" is relative and without defining that bit it is hard to say. In any event, the entire discussion is academic as I am not a blood mage.

Unfortunately "enormous" is kind of a vague term.

 

Gender is a biochemical reality. To say it doesn't exist is delusional. If it's meaningless to you that's your business, but out in the world, there actually are things we can't change just by believing it.

Biological and physical sex is, sort of, but it's not a binary. Intersex people prove that.

[The Night Haunter]

Well said and interesting.

I am going to like this simply for the full themed 'approval'. Bravo Serah.

 

Do you have one for Greatly Disapproves?

[BansheeOwnage]

I am going to like this simply for the full themed 'approval'. Bravo Serah.

 

Do you have one for Greatly Disapproves?

Thank you! Now that you mention it, no. Not yet. Why didn't I make that at the same time? Oh well, time to make "Greatly Disapproves, Disapproves, Slightly Disapproves, Slightly Approves, and Greatly Approves versions

 

Edit: There we go!

Spoiler

Ha, definitely worthy use of my time.

[Sylvianus]

@ donk, thanks for the answer. I don't believe Maia was being preachy though, she just merely gave her opinion the first time, sincerely annoyed, her tone and her posts were always reasonable.

 

Funny note : I had it worse and for much less. When in the solas thread that I used to read everyday before this stupid event, a few days after learning who would be love interests, one month before the release; with someone else I said in a totally neutral tone, without any mean words, that it was obvious to me for some reasons that Varric wasn't going to be an LI and that people shouldn't have had that much hope about him in my opinion, that I even warned them they shouldn't. That's it.

 

I didn't understand how, but suddenly, apparently in the eyes of some fangirls I became a ruthless guy, a monster without any empathy. One of them got so emotional in her post that I thought I had beaten a poor girl LOL. Her whole post was very approved with other posts following, and yet there was zero reason in her big post, only emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. You'd think that people would value reason over emotion and would see that what she blamed never appeared in my post. I never mocked anyone on this forum for free. 

 

The most hyperbolic and emotional post I have ever seen for absolutely nothing. I apparently did things that didn't even appear in my post. I swear, I re-read my post like 50 times, ( it had like three or four lines LOL ) truly astonished and at the same time fascinated. And... in the end to be honest I was still unable to understand how suddenly I became a bad guy, a monster. There are way more rude attitudes on this forum, and people don't react that strongly. 

 

Well, love interests are a big deal on the bsn, that's what I concluded.

[BansheeOwnage]

Her whole post was very approved with other posts following, and yet there was zero reason in her big post, only emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. You'd think that people would value reason over emotion and would see that what she blamed never appeared in my post

Well, we are currently having a discussion that talks about how humans are animals...

[Steelcan]

I love this thread's attitude towards the Witcher series.

 

And philosophy, but that's another issue

[Nefla]

I love this thread's attitude towards the Witcher series.

 

And philosophy, but that's another issue

Grumpy Gus!

[Tamyn]

Funny note : Believe me, I had it worse and for much less. When in the solas thread that I used to read everyday before this stupid event, a few days after learning who would be love interests, one month before the release; with someone else I said in a totally neutral tone, without any mean words, that it was obvious to me for some reasons that Varric wasn't going to be an LI and that people shouldn't have had that much hope about him in my opinion, that I even warned them they shouldn't. That's it.

 

I didn't understand how, but suddenly, apparently in the eyes of some fangirls I became a ruthless guy, a monster without any empathy. One of them got so emotional in her post that I thought I had beaten a poor girl LOL. Her whole post was very approved with other posts following, and yet there was zero reason in her big post, only emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. You'd think that people would value reason over emotion and would see that what she blamed never appeared in my post. I never mocked anyone on this forum for free. 

 

The most hyperbolic and emotional post I have ever seen for absolutely nothing. I apparently did things that didn't even appear in my post. I swear, I re-read my post like 50 times, ( it had like three or four lines LOL ) truly astonished and at the same time fascinated. And... in the end to be honest I was still unable to understand how suddenly I became a bad guy, a monster. There are way more rude attitudes on this forum, and people don't react that strongly. 

 

Well, love interests are a big deal on the bsn, that's what I concluded.

 

 

It was like all their rage and grief over what they thought they were "owed" was directed at us like we delighted in their suffering, and there was no convincing them otherwise.

[Donk]

I haven't backed off my position; I've just been away baking bread. I'm not really sure where the reverse psychology thing comes in. I'm guessing it's just another way to justify your behavior. I'm also guessing you didn't like that I correctly guessed that you are young by the way you are acting. At any rate, stating my opinion isn't preaching no matter how much you want to paint it that way. Perhaps you should take some time to consider what is actually being said.

 

Admitting that you acted like an 'arsehole' doesn't magically make everything okay. It actually appears that you are doubling down. Additionally, being a woman and a lesbian doesn't make you immune from problematic behavior. I've called it like I see it. I am glad to see that you've apologized to any that were offended, though. Kudos for that.

 

That's assuming I seek your "kudos" or approval in the first place. Hint: I don't.

 

And this post proves that you haven't actually understood my point. I never said admitting that I can be an arsehole or saying I was a lesbian made me immune from "problematic behaviour" as you put it there. As I've stated, I acknowledged that there is consequences to my actions. People are offended, and I am informing them that I wasn't attacking them. That apology was for them, had nothing to do with you.

 

Secondly, you are a hypocrite. Let me let you in on a little secret; just because you subscribe to a popular worldview preached by modern media (often referred to as "politically" correct), and use big fancy words in your argument, it does not make you "right" nor does it make you "holier than thou", as you are putting yourself across. Your arguments are passive-aggressive and you hide behind "calling out" of me, by stating it is merely an opinion.

 

Now, the worldview you subscribe to is nothing but a fantasy ideal. Ironically, those who engage in such are no different to the bigots that insult women about their weight. Sure, it isn't a blatant "Hrhr you're fat, DERP!" insult any more, but a careful, "politically correct" tactic that the media obsesses over. For example, constant adverts on TV, and news articles about obesity epidemics and how people should stop eating X food groups and start eating vegetables instead. Weight loss reality shows, where a certain physical trainer is allowed to treat the contestants like dirt and insult them, all in the name of "helping". Google "Australia's Biggest Loser" (even the name is suggestive, right?) and the trainer in question, Michelle Bridges.

 

Your main issue, however, is with "Don't insult people about their physical appearance. It's wrong. You're immature." Lady, there are many levels of immature, and one level is believing the "politically correct" ideals that the media shoves down your throat. The same politicians and PR that preach about these ideals get on the TV and preach, but you know what happens during parliament debates?

They discriminate each other. They insult each other. They act like little children in a schoolyard. Yet these same people are the first to get on the screen and yell to the skies, "STOP DISCRIMINATION!"

 

Ultimately, your beliefs are built on a foundation of lies, preached by those who don't actually care about anything they are peddling, other than 15 seconds of fame and the next paycheck. Now, in reality, people who don't like other people for whatever reason will insult them and make fun of them behind closed doors. Some are worse; and resort to violence. Why, just at a football match last week a woman was punched by a man because she asked him to stop swearing in front of her children.

 

Your ideals, while admirable, are naive at best. Your "opinion" counts for nothing, because nothing will change. The only change that will be achieved is by drastic force, which will result in lack of freedoms and tyranny, the very thing that people such as yourself will stand up and argue against. And nobody wants that

 

Now, I'm sure everybody is sick of this argument and wants to go back to discussing female inquisitors. So I will no longer  engage, but being the immature git I am, I will leave you with this Gif. What separates us, is the fact that I am honest. You? Not so much.

 

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't usually bother saying this, but... can we go back on-topic? Or at least, more on-topic?

[ModernAcademic]

That is one of the silliest things I've ever seen. 

 

No, it isn't. It's very important.

 

Like caring that black people can sit on whatever seat they want in a bus without being discriminated,

A mother can breastfeed in public without having her picture taken by a stranger and shamed on social network,

A girl can cut her hair short and refuse to wear make up without being called a ******,

Or a boy can wear a dress and play with dolls because he likes it better than shorts and skates.

 

NEVER make people feel bad for complaining about something that makes them feel discriminated. That's a lesson people like you should learn. RESPECT others.

[Nefla]

I don't usually bother saying this, but... can we go back on-topic? Or at least, more on-topic?

Yes please lol

 

The original post brings this to mind

[Ieldra]

I'd rather talk about this:
 

[Fredward]

I'm torn between a Solasmance for the angst/plot relevance and a Seramance with a qunari who has jeweled horns because Sera.