723 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Or at least a diverse group of women. But yeah, that's the really weird part. They can be surprised, I suppose, but why the hostility? It's bizarre.

So bizarre! I used to work at a fabric store and probably 95% of our customers were women and of the 5% who were men, very few were in the store to buy sewing stuff for themselves. It was usually someone picking up something for his wife or a dad driving his teenage daughter there. It was so rare to get a male customer that one time I was cashiering and said "have a nice day ma'am" out of pure habit to a big burly man who was clearly not a "ma'am." I know lots of women who sew both clothing and quilts/home decor and not a single man who does the same and yet I don't freak out and get angry at men who sew. I would encourage any guy with an interest in sewing to give it a try because it's both fun and useful, I wouldn't quiz him to see if he was a "true" sewing fan worthy of being in my presence or in the fabric store. I wouldn't sneer at him and tell him that way more women sew than men. I wouldn't get defensive and mad. It's just stupid.

[giveamanafish...]

So bizarre! I used to work at a fabric store and probably 95% of our customers were women and of the 5% who were men, very few were in the store to buy sewing stuff for themselves. It was usually someone picking up something for his wife or a dad driving his teenage daughter there. It was so rare to get a male customer that one time I was cashiering and said "have a nice day ma'am" out of pure habit to a big burly man who was clearly not a "ma'am." I know lots of women who sew both clothing and quilts/home decor and not a single man who does the same and yet I don't freak out and get angry at men who sew. I would encourage any guy with an interest in sewing to give it a try because it's both fun and useful, I wouldn't quiz him to see if he was a "true" sewing fan worthy of being in my presence or in the fabric store. I wouldn't sneer at him and tell him that way more women sew than men. I wouldn't get defensive and mad. It's just stupid.

Totally off topic, but google Green Bay Packers Pitch Perfect. I can't remember if it was the offensive or defensive line, basically guys where 240 lbs and fit is smallish. Anyways they memorized most of that movie including the choreography. Before that, and you have to be quite old to know this, it was reported in Life or Time magazine that the biggest hobby among the Packers' linemen was needlepoint. So good chance you just ran into a professional football player.

[Panda]

So bizarre! I used to work at a fabric store and probably 95% of our customers were women and of the 5% who were men, very few were in the store to buy sewing stuff for themselves. It was usually someone picking up something for his wife or a dad driving his teenage daughter there. It was so rare to get a male customer that one time I was cashiering and said "have a nice day ma'am" out of pure habit to a big burly man who was clearly not a "ma'am." I know lots of women who sew both clothing and quilts/home decor and not a single man who does the same and yet I don't freak out and get angry at men who sew. I would encourage any guy with an interest in sewing to give it a try because it's both fun and useful, I wouldn't quiz him to see if he was a "true" sewing fan worthy of being in my presence or in the fabric store. I wouldn't sneer at him and tell him that way more women sew than men. I wouldn't get defensive and mad. It's just stupid.

 

I'd say that it seems to have to do with fear, some men seem to be afraid that their games etc. will be ruined, because they aren't only demographic and because women and feminist give criticism about games that devs seem to listen in certain extent.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

I'd say that it seems to have to do with fear, some men seem to be afraid that their games etc. will be ruined, because they aren't only demographic and because women and feminist give criticism about games that devs seem to listen in certain extent.

Not really. BW has already gone down that route and is catering to the PC/SJW/female market, which is fine, just another way to make money, whereas other companies such as CDPR will stick with a more traditional, male customer base. Whatever BW used to be is gone. With that said, the SJW market isn't a bad one to tap into since no one else does it so BW has a monopoly on it.

[Panda]

Not really. BW has already gone down that route and is catering to the PC/SJW/female market, which is fine, just another way to make money, whereas other companies such as CDPR will stick with a more traditional, male customer base. Whatever BW used to be is gone. With that said, the SJW market isn't a bad one to tap into since no one else does it so BW has a monopoly on it.

 

What I gathered from that comment is that you think that Bioware is catering female/SJW market by taking female players wishes accord, I think that would mean that male players indeed have reason to be worried about in terms of developers taking criticism from girls if it truly leads into companies catering female/SJW market and abolishing what company used to be.

 

I don't quite agree personally, I rather think that there is space or should be for most of players within same games.

[Lazengan]

I get the impression that most guys who think "women don't play videogames! Shock! Scandal! Lies!" Don't know many women in real life. What's strange to me is that the very idea makes them spitting mad.

 

Ah the typical female "argument" of insulting a man's sexuality. Whatever narrative you want. 

 

Oh women do play video games. Most of them are just attention whores about it and few actually care about the games they play

 

I am married thanks

[Ieldra]

I get the impression that most guys who think "women don't play videogames! Shock! Scandal! Lies!" Don't know many women in real life. What's strange to me is that the very idea makes them spitting mad.

Probably they see playing games as a male bonding ritual - you know, going back to those times when children tend to band together along gender lines and do some weird stuff in order to affirm their superiority over the opposite-gender-cluster over there. Looking over certain elements of our culture, apparently some people never grow out of that kind of behaviour. 

 

And of course if the illusion of superiority is threatened by someone really competent - I've known a woman who maintained the position of a WOW raid leader for years - they get mad.

 

BTW, I fully expect some girls and women to adopt a functionally analogue set of behaviour.

[Felya87]

Or at least a diverse group of women. But yeah, that's the really weird part. They can be surprised, I suppose, but why the hostility? It's bizarre.

Yes. This hostility is quote childish and strange. And I find it strange and a quite recent thing too. Usually, the reaction I always got from guys when I started talking about games was, after surprise, cameradie and happyness to find something in common to talk about. Sometimes even some flirt and phone number. But never the derision and hostility of the last years. But maybe is because of the net and guys feel entitled to be the worst they can?

[BansheeOwnage]

Ah the typical female "argument" of insulting a man's sexuality. Whatever narrative you want. 

 

Oh women do play video games. Most of them are just attention whores about it and few actually care about the games they play

 

I am married thanks

There is so much wrong with that post I'm not even sure where to start deconstructing it. Or if I should bother.

[Dieb]

The fembro I met and went on tag-teaming months of (her regularly outscoring my Drell Assassin) MEMP never went on mic because she was actually scared of the attention she'd get and... ugh, yeah, why bother. It's 2015 and there's water on Mars, we don't have time for that crap.

 

The fact [sic] that companies used to give 99,9% of their attention and marketing to male gamers means precisely  that companies and games are going to change, and the only reason for this is female gamers. However, even daring to complain about this developement is like complaining politics are changing because women are allowed to vote. Or when your parents cought you hiding the cookies you were given to share with your siblings.

 

It's just, it's necessary, it's long overdue and the obligation is not on the females.

 

There is no discussion about who deserves which or is entitled to what on a planet that is more or less evenly split. Seriously, how long must this re-emerged (I say, naively) global adolescence drag on until we can resume just making better games? You have nothing to fear.

[Ieldra]

Yes. This hostility is quote childish and strange. And I find it strange and a quite recent, too. Usually, the reaction I always got from guys when I started talking about games was, after surprise, cameradie and happyness to find something in common to talk about. Sometimes even some flirt and phone number. But never the derision and hostility of the last years. But maybe is because of the net and guys feel entitled to be the worst they can?

Recent? I've read complaints about this for more than ten years. If there really has been an increase, that would support my hypothesis that for a certain subgroup of male gamers, it is important to maintain the illusion that male gamers are better at playing games. That wasn't so hard when female gamers were rare, and given a normal distribution of competence, they were unlikely to ever meet a highly competent one. Things have changed, though. The probability that the unknown gamer who chewed you out and spit on your remains in an MP match is a woman has risen dramatically.

 

A common analogous behaviour for women is to affirm their moral superiority over men, which means taking pride in, for instance, only playing politically acceptable games from politically acceptable developers, looking down on everyone else and accusing any males who are alike as pretenders. I've seen those as well. 

[Ieldra]

It's 2015 and there's water on Mars, we don't have time for that crap.

I consider this the most succint statement on the matter on this thread. If only we'd look more to the future instead of remaining bound by archaic behaviour patterns.

[Dieb]

I consider this the most succint statement on the matter on this thread. If only we'd look more to the future instead of remaining bound by archaic behaviour patterns.

 

Also I obviously had just left a panel discussion titled The "Wheel" - Round or Rectangular?  straight after "Fire" - Innovation or Dangerously Blazing Dry Sticks Are Upsetting The Gods?, so I may be a little thin-skinned on the matter.

[Felya87]

Recent? I've read complaints about this for more than ten years. If there really has been an increase, that would support my hypothesis that for a certain subgroup of male gamers, it is important to maintain the illusion that male gamers are better at playing games. That wasn't so hard when female gamers were rare, and given a normal distribution of competence, they were unlikely to ever meet a highly competent one. Things have changed, though. The probability that the unknown gamer who chewed you out and spit on your remains in an MP match is a woman has risen dramatically.

 

A common analogous behaviour for women is to affirm their moral superiority over men, which means taking pride in, for instance, only playing politically acceptable games from politically acceptable developers, looking down on everyone else and accusing any males who are alike as pretenders. I've seen those as well. 

 

I don't know if is just internet related, but since I had little exposure to the net until four-five years ago, my experience is that the hostility have became stronger later, or at least is not so present when people talk in person. Where before there was just surprise and happyness to find something in common, now there is many times open hostility.

 

I know some girls like to feel morally superior too, but many times girls simply are happy to play something where they feel reprented and not only as eyecandy, and usually are quite eager to every little bit of representation or simply stuff made for them or of their taste. Be it play as a female character without being forced in skimpy armour or romantic/tastefull stuff related to gender.

All stuff that existed in point and click adventures, but had a hard time go to others kind of games.

[lynroy]

I can already tell who is female and male based on how they post

some men pretend to be women. It's obvious when they do it though

Do you know how many people have thought I was a dude based on my posting style? I can tell you it is a fair amount and includes most everyone I have interacted with on these forums.

[maia0407]

So bizarre! I used to work at a fabric store and probably 95% of our customers were women and of the 5% who were men, very few were in the store to buy sewing stuff for themselves. It was usually someone picking up something for his wife or a dad driving his teenage daughter there. It was so rare to get a male customer that one time I was cashiering and said "have a nice day ma'am" out of pure habit to a big burly man who was clearly not a "ma'am." I know lots of women who sew both clothing and quilts/home decor and not a single man who does the same and yet I don't freak out and get angry at men who sew. I would encourage any guy with an interest in sewing to give it a try because it's both fun and useful, I wouldn't quiz him to see if he was a "true" sewing fan worthy of being in my presence or in the fabric store. I wouldn't sneer at him and tell him that way more women sew than men. I wouldn't get defensive and mad. It's just stupid.

 

Just want to pipe in and say it's so cool that you sew! I'm trying to find some lessons as I would love to be able to alter my own clothes and make a few skirts. I knit though. I've seen knitting becoming more popular among some guys; I wouldn't try to make them believe that knitting wasn't something for them. Grab your needles, come sit by me and we can gossip about the silly boys that hate women gamers!

There is so much wrong with that post I'm not even sure where to start deconstructing it. Or if I should bother.

Yeah, I don't even bother with his type. He's too far gone and unlikely to respond reasonably.

 

Recent? I've read complaints about this for more than ten years. If there really has been an increase, that would support my hypothesis that for a certain subgroup of male gamers, it is important to maintain the illusion that male gamers are better at playing games. That wasn't so hard when female gamers were rare, and given a normal distribution of competence, they were unlikely to ever meet a highly competent one. Things have changed, though. The probability that the unknown gamer who chewed you out and spit on your remains in an MP match is a woman has risen dramatically.

 

A common analogous behaviour for women is to affirm their moral superiority over men, which means taking pride in, for instance, only playing politically acceptable games from politically acceptable developers, looking down on everyone else and accusing any males who are alike as pretenders. I've seen those as well. 

There's a study floating around somewhere showing that men are more submissive to other male players with superior gaming skills. Those same men become aggressive towards women with superior gaming skills. The conclusion of the study was something to the effect that beta males are trying to assert dominance over women to make up for the lower rank among men. I wish I could find that study!

[maia0407]

Do you know how many people have thought I was a dude based on my posting style? I can tell you it is a fair amount and includes most everyone I have interacted with on these forums.

I'd say it's the user name that confuses people!

[BansheeOwnage]

Do you know how many people have thought I was a dude based on my posting style? I can tell you it is a fair amount and includes most everyone I have interacted with on these forums.

Right. Avatars and usernames can give you hints, but it's not ever going to confirm anything. But posting style? I don't even know what exactly people think they're seeing that would tell them what gender you are

[Ieldra]

There's a study floating around somewhere showing that men are more submissive to other male players with superior gaming skills. Those same men become aggressive towards women with superior gaming skills. The conclusion of the study was something to the effect that beta males are trying to assert dominance over women to make up for the lower rank among men. I wish I could find that study!

Here you are.

A review article at the xxfactor blog says it a little more directly: "A newly released study shows what we were all thinking: Abusive and sexist gamers are losers. Literally."

[Dieb]

I'd say it's the user name that confuses people!

 

Her old username was actually GrizzlyAdamsGurl, we only settled on the new one after a long night chugging unprocessed fuel at the local topless bar.

 

Right. Avatars and usernames can give you hints, but it's not ever going to confirm anything. But posting style? I don't even know what exactly people think they're seeing that would tell them what gender you are

 

Casual remarks like "I have a vagina" in forum discussions, or lobby chat greetings such as "so how is  skinny jeans shopping with a penis?" are both classic indicators.

[WildOrchid]

Abusive and sexist gamers are losers. Literally.

 

This isn't news.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

What I gathered from that comment is that you think that Bioware is catering female/SJW market by taking female players wishes accord, I think that would mean that male players indeed have reason to be worried about in terms of developers taking criticism from girls if it truly leads into companies catering female/SJW market and abolishing what company used to be.

 

I don't quite agree personally, I rather think that there is space or should be for most of players within same games.

Hardcore male fans that were bothered by BW's new direction already left a long time ago. Some stayed because of other reasons (lore in my case). CDPR's formula works really well and there is no reason to change it because it works so well. If women and/or SJWs feel excluded they have their BW games. Male and female players generally want different things so this division in marketing is natural. DAI for example is a high fantasy setting with an admixture of 21st century progressive values whereas Witcher 3 is a late medieval setting, low magic setting that is brutally unfair to everyone in it. Completely different approaches and to an extent audiences.

[maia0407]

Her old username was actually GrizzlyAdamsGurl, we only settled on the new one after a long night chugging unprocessed fuel at the local topless bar.

 

 

Casual remarks like "I have a vagina" in forum discussions, or lobby chat greetings such as "so how is  skinny jeans shopping with a penis?" are both classic indicators.

haha! And people still confused her with a man with 'Gurl' in her name? Lawdy!

[Panda]

Ah the typical female "argument" of insulting a man's sexuality. Whatever narrative you want. 

 

Oh women do play video games. Most of them are just attention whores about it and few actually care about the games they play

 

I am married thanks

 

The more and more I heard the more evident it becomes that you have no clue about female gamers..

 

Right. Avatars and usernames can give you hints, but it's not ever going to confirm anything. But posting style? I don't even know what exactly people think they're seeing that would tell them what gender you are

 

I guess it's relatively easy with me since I tend to post quite lot in these threads about gender ^^;

 

But I have been mistaken with many here, for example until this thread I thought that @Ieldra was woman..

[maia0407]

Here you are.

A review article at the xxfactor blog says it a little more directly: "A newly released study shows what we were all thinking: Abusive and sexist gamers are losers. Literally."

Yes, that's the article! Thanks!