723 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

I see. So you're heavily stereotyping a very large group, then you say you reject groupthink. What I see is a sort of reverse groupthink, where everyone in a group is autocatically guilty of various intellectual sins.

 

As I see it, the #killallmen harpies are a very small minority of feminists in the grand scheme of things. Sure, there are idiots like that. Just like there are religious fanatics, bible-thumpers, ultra-conservatives, women-hater, racists of various forms, gun nuts, violent anarchists, violent communists, single-minded atheists, and all sorts of other entiled, close-minded, stupid people in any srot of socio-political movement you can think of and beyond. That's not part of feminism in particular, it's part of some humans just not being very good humans no matter what they are and what they think.

 

The vast majority of feminists I've met were reasonable, albeit often opinionated people. I've not always agreed with them, but they were not all shrill harpies, no more than the majority of conservatives were backwards, racist hicks or the majority of liberals were hypocritical jerkbags or whatnot. Treating such a varied political movement as a cult is just dismissive and doesn't seem like intellectual honesty to me.

 

Do you know what groupthink is? Because going by what you're saying about it, I'm not fully convinced you do. "Reverse groupthink" is already a thing with a name. It's called individualism. It's the polar opposite of groupthink. What you're describing isn't a reverse anything, it's just guilt by association.

 

No, it's a part of feminism. A more radical part of feminism, but a part of feminism nonetheless. Feminism is an ideological label, not something that somebody is born into or something that physically exists in the world with a corporeal form. Literally anybody can call themselves a feminist and act in its name, you don't need a card to show that you're a member. Just handwaving those radical people off as a small minority is disingenuous and smacks of No True Scotsman. Too often I hear people say "yeah, but they're not REALLY feminists". Yes they are, in the same way that ISIS are "really Muslim". I'm not comparing radfems to ISIS, that was just the first example of a notable radical group I could think of off the top of my head. Saying "it's not feminism" is like saying that the Crusades weren't really Christian.

 

Good for you on not running into too many bugf*** crazies. For every otherwise rational and normal feminist, there's one who believes in sexist weather, #KillAllMen, and one who p**sed themselves for "equality".

 

Though I personally question the rationality of somebody who believes in something that demonstrably does not exist. Or if it does exist at all, certainly not to the scale that they would like to claim it does (i.e. the pay gap based on gender is not an actual thing). They talk to me and tell me about these things they want me to believe based on faith, and I'm not a "faith" person. Feminists make it sound like some religion, and religion is the last thing I want to be a part of.

[GoldenGail3]

You do realize I play as men all the time in DA games? I like playing as females, but I also have no trouble with playing as male characters. And I'm a girl, too.

[Andraste_Reborn]

and one who p**sed themselves for "equality".

 

For the record, nobody actually did that.

[maia0407]

For the record, nobody actually did that.

lololololol! That's actually a thing? And the MRA's were the ones who fell for it? hahahhaha Dumb dumbs. Shows how critically they think. Thanks for the link!

[Majestic Jazz]

You do realize I play as men all the time in DA games? I like playing as females, but I also have no trouble with playing as male characters. And I'm a girl, too.

I applaud you for that. I am a male, and I play as women in games to.

I never understood this, "I only play games that allow me to play as my own gender." Attitude.

[Majestic Jazz]

No, it's a part of feminism. A more radical part of feminism, but a part of feminism nonetheless. Feminism is an ideological label, not something that somebody is born into or something that physically exists in the world with a corporeal form. Literally anybody can call themselves a feminist and act in its name, you don't need a card to show that you're a member. Just handwaving those radical people off as a small minority is disingenuous and smacks of No True Scotsman. Too often I hear people say "yeah, but they're not REALLY feminists". Yes they are, in the same way that ISIS are "really Muslim". I'm not comparing radfems to ISIS, that was just the first example of a notable radical group I could think of off the top of my head. Saying "it's not feminism" is like saying that the Crusades weren't really Christian.

And this is something I brough up earlier when I mentioned that there are two types of feminism, a moderate form and a radical form. Difference is, the radical form denounces the moderate form while the moderate form turns a blind eye to the radical form and secretively cheers on some of the arguements made by the radical feminist.

This is why I have problems with those who claim to be feminist. To me they are just irrational. I am for womens rights and equalty, but I am not a feminist cause feminist often contradict themselves and only want equality when it benefits women but shun away from equality when it threatens a current advantage for women....like the United States court system regarding child custody and divorce settlements....or women not required like males are to register for selective service.

Then you have the videogame feminist like Anita Sarkessien who cherry picks her arguments and frames them in a particular way.

https://m.youtube.co...eature=youtu.be

Modern feminist should study up on Christina Hoff Sommers.

[correctamundo]

For the record, nobody actually did that.

 

Makes you sad for the future of MANkind. Or rather a small portion of it.

[o Ventus]

For the record, nobody actually did that.

 

Citing Rebecca Watson as a reliable source on social events and/or issues is like citing the Catholic Church on particle physics.

 

Also, yes, some people actually did, as seen very clearly here.

[maia0407]

 

Citing Rebecca Watson as a reliable source on social events and/or issues is like citing the Catholic Church on particle physics.

 

Also, yes, some people actually did, as seen very clearly here.

Citing a video made by "Lulz Factory" of some unknown woman peeing proves what?

[BSpud]

"Modern feminist should study up on Christina Hoff Sommers."

 

lol

 

Every now and then I click on this thread, forgetting how dopey it is.

[BansheeOwnage]

I never understood this, "I only play games that allow me to play as my own gender." Attitude.

That's okay, it's personal preference. So you don't have to understand. And I play games with male leads frequently, I just play females when given the chance, partly because it's pretty rare to even get the chance.

[Majestic Jazz]

"Modern feminist should study up on Christina Hoff Sommers."

lol

Every now and then I click on this thread, forgetting how dopey it is.

And what is wrong with Christina Hoff? Because she has an opposing viewpoint? You seem to disagree but cannot offer any reason why other than mentioning how dopey this thread is.

Fact as, many modern feminist like to ignore any other type of feminism that goes against their own ideals. That is no different than a 5 year old covering their ears and saying, "na na nana naaaaa I cant hear youuuuuuuuu!"

I noticed that a lot here. People who like to throw around the feminist arguement evades whenever I present another feminist argument that counters their own.

Kind of reminds me of how many modern radical feminist likes to downtalk ShoeOnHead

https://youtu.be/z6VFIN1WJEY

[Althaz]

Goes for hawke , and origins. I watch the videos on youtube everyone not just DA: I wants to play female it seems. 

 

Something im missing? Figured if you play a game you would imagine that the character was you hence role playing right? 

 

Or maybe im paranoid and missing something.

 

I normally try both. In Origins my canon character was a male. In DA2 I liked the male voice better, so that was what I went with for my canon playthrough (although I was wrong, once you get into it a bit more, the female voice has funnier delivery, though both are superb). In DA:I I vastly preferred the Britishish female voice over the other choices. My first playthrough was with a male character (I am a dude, so that's probably not overly surprising). Tried a woman next and liked her voice better. My canon playthrough came later (I only finished it a little while ago in fact) was therefore with a female. Also, femquizzy gets, IMO, the hottest love interest (Sera).

[maia0407]

"Modern feminist should study up on Christina Hoff Sommers."

 

lol

 

Every now and then I click on this thread, forgetting how dopey it is.

lol, I know. We get dudes telling us how to do feminism right. Of course,'right' means agreeing with the discredited people they listen to that support their anti feminists views and uncritically accepting the Lulz Factory video made by 4chan trolls that supposedly 'proves' that feminists fell for the pee thing. Geez!

[Majestic Jazz]

lol, I know. We get dudes telling us how to do feminism right. Of course,'right' means agreeing with the discredited people they listen to that support their anti feminists views and uncritically accepting the Lulz Factory video made by 4chan trolls that supposedly 'proves' that feminists fell for the pee thing. Geez!

 

Oh really? Where did I ever tell you how to do feminism right. All I have done was proposed to you alternate views on feminism. Never did I say that if you are a feminist, that you HAVE to believe in a specific ideology of feminism to be legit, I simply said that your guiding feminist principles are NOT universal and that there are many other female  (and male) feminist to offer differing feminist principles. You say that you are a feminist, and all I am doing is saying that if you want to expand your reach of knowledge, perhaps you should understand other feminist views as well.

 

I remember a long while back we had this discussion about how there seems to be a generational divide among feminist and how not all women support this newer, more seemingly radical views on feminism. I remember directing you to read a series of articles by a respected female journalist and her challenges with dealing with Anita Sarkeesian's view on feminism and how it related to videogames. For a reminder and for anyone else to read, here is the 5 part series titled, "Why Feminist Frequency almost made me quit writing about videogames" by a female author who is well respected. If you REALLY claim to be a student of feminism, then reading these articles would broaden your perspective as it offers in great detail, a differing view on the topic in relation to videogames. It isn't written by some bitter male fearful of the looming female influence on videogames, no it is written by a respected female who is explaining some of the inconsitencies in some of the many Anita Sarkeesian style feminist have about videogames. This isn't meant to change your mind nor is it an attack on feminism, but it is meant to give you a broader perceptive and just because you may not agree with what it says, that does not make it any less valid. I mean, people with TRUE knowledge on a subject has a strong grasp on ALL views of the subject, both that support and disagree with their claims. They just do not hermit around the views that support their claims while ignoring or evading those that disagree with them.

 

 

Part 1: An introduction to my perspective on the current state of the gaming community.

Part 2: Cultivation Theory and Gaze Theory. Are they good fits for video games?

Part 3: Objectification and the Tropes - We all know it happens. Can we prove it hurts?

Part 4: Fighting back against the Fighting F**ktoy trope

Part 5: The path to saving myself... and all other women in games.

 

 

 

And finally, you say, "Of course,'right' means agreeing with the discredited people they listen to that support their anti feminists views" but you cannot explain why and who discredited them? Are they discredited because what they say has no factual claim in the realm in which they speak? Or are they discredited simply because they do not align with your personal views so therefore they "must be wrong"?

[maia0407]

Oh really? Where did I ever tell you how to do feminism right. All I have done was proposed to you alternate views on feminism. Never did I say that if you are a feminist, that you HAVE to believe in a specific ideology of feminism to be legit, I simply said that your guiding feminist principles are NOT universal and that there are many other female  (and male) feminist to offer differing feminist principles. You say that you are a feminist, and all I am doing is saying that if you want to expand your reach of knowledge, perhaps you should understand other feminist views as well.

 

I remember a long while back we had this discussion about how there seems to be a generational divide among feminist and how not all women support this newer, more seemingly radical views on feminism. I remember directing you to read a series of articles by a respected female journalist and her challenges with dealing with Anita Sarkeesian's view on feminism and how it related to videogames. For a reminder and for anyone else to read, here is the 5 part series titled, "Why Feminist Frequency almost made me quit writing about videogames" by a female author who is well respected. If you REALLY claim to be a student of feminism, then reading these articles would broaden your perspective as it offers in great detail, a differing view on the topic in relation to videogames. It isn't written by some bitter male fearful of the looming female influence on videogames, no it is written by a respected female who is explaining some of the inconsitencies in some of the many Anita Sarkeesian style feminist have about videogames. This isn't meant to change your mind nor is it an attack on feminism, but it is meant to give you a broader perceptive and just because you may not agree with what it says, that does not make it any less valid. I mean, people with TRUE knowledge on a subject has a strong grasp on ALL views of the subject, both that support and disagree with their claims. They just do not hermit around the views that support their claims while ignoring or evading those that disagree with them.

 

 

Part 1: An introduction to my perspective on the current state of the gaming community.

Part 2: Cultivation Theory and Gaze Theory. Are they good fits for video games?

Part 3: Objectification and the Tropes - We all know it happens. Can we prove it hurts?

Part 4: Fighting back against the Fighting F**ktoy trope

Part 5: The path to saving myself... and all other women in games.

 

 

 

And finally, you say, "Of course,'right' means agreeing with the discredited people they listen to that support their anti feminists views" but you cannot explain why and who discredited them? Are they discredited because what they say has no factual claim in the realm in which they speak? Or are they discredited simply because they do not align with your personal views so therefore they "must be wrong"?

I've talked with you enough and read enough of your posts to see that you are consistently on the hostile side towards feminism. Out of one side of your mouth comes weak support for feminists values while the other side is regurgitating anti feminist rhetoric, posting silly videos questioning women's choices on how to dress themselves and supporting attacks on a woman that dares to critique video games.

 

I read plenty of feminist thought. I don't really have any desire to read random articles posted by some guy on a forum that has an obvious anti feminist bias (no matter how much you claim the latter). I, as a woman, don't need to be schooled in feminism by you and am capable of finding and reading feminist criticism all on my own. I just don't have the motivation to take the time to read all the articles that dudes with questionable stances throw at me. Sure, sometimes I will but I'm under no obligation to do so.

 

I'm reminded of the tactic that has come to be known as the 'gish gallup' that creationists use in debates. Creationists throw out a bunch of one-liners supposedly critiquing evolution and the poor scientists doesn't have the time to refute all the pithy one liners in the time the debate allows. The creationists declare a 'win' as all their points haven't been refuted. And, that's the problem. You send me off to a 5 part series of articles and whine when I don't care and don't get that I already don't trust your sources due to your obvious hostility towards feminism. Another guy wanted me to watch a 20 minute video that started with a pic of Anita with a dorito on her head. I'm supposed to take dorito video as a serious critique? And, the list goes on of all the material I'm supposed to watch and read that supports an MRA like view point. I have my own interests and don't have to wade into MRA type material on demand to have a broad view of feminism. 

 

So, it's fine if you make yourself feel better by telling yourself that I'm narrow minded because I didn't read your 5 part series among all the other BS MRA articles I've already been told to read today by guys just like you. How about you take some time and read some actual pro feminist articles instead? hmmmm?

[Majestic Jazz]

I've talked with you enough and read enough of your posts to see that you are consistently on the hostile side towards feminism. Out of one side of your mouth comes weak support for feminists values while the other side is regurgitating anti feminist rhetoric, posting silly videos questioning women's choices on how to dress themselves and supporting attacks on a woman that dares to critique video games.

 

I read plenty of feminist thought. I don't really have any desire to read random articles posted by some guy on a forum that has an obvious anti feminist bias (no matter how much you claim the latter). I, as a woman, don't need to be schooled in feminism by you and am capable of finding and reading feminist criticism all on my own. I just don't have the motivation to take the time to read all the articles that dudes with questionable stances throw at me. Sure, sometimes I will but I'm under no obligation to do so.

 

I'm reminded of the tactic that has come to be known as the 'gish gallup' that creationists use in debates. Creationists throw out a bunch of one-liners supposedly critiquing evolution and the poor scientists doesn't have the time to refute all the pithy one liners in the time the debate allows. The creationists declare a 'win' as all their points haven't been refuted. And, that's the problem. You send me off to a 5 part series of articles and whine when I don't care and don't get that I already don't trust your sources due to your obvious hostility towards feminism. Another guy wanted me to watch a 20 minute video that started with a pic of Anita with a dorito on her head. I'm supposed to take dorito video as a serious critique? And, the list goes on of all the material I'm supposed to watch and read that supports an MRA like view point. I have my own interests and don't have to wade into MRA type material on demand to have a broad view of feminism. 

 

So, it's fine if you make yourself feel better by telling yourself that I'm narrow minded because I didn't read your 5 part series among all the other BS MRA articles I've already been told to read today by guys just like you. How about you take some time and read some actual pro feminist articles instead? hmmmm?

 

1) Why do you have to keep mentioned "dude" or "guy" as if that somehow lessens me, makes me inferior, or discredit's me just because of my sex? Never have I done the same to you, so why resort to such low blow tactics? Yes, I am a male and yes I have opposing views than you, but leave out my sex and just focus on my message.

 

2) I am not anti-feminist. I would describe myself more as an "equalist" rather than simply feminist. I am for the equal and respected rights of all demographics whether it be women, men, blacks, hispanics, refugees, veterans, disabled, seniors etc. That does not make me anti-feminist. I am a democratic and a liberal, but that does not make me anti-Republican or anti-conservative. It just means that I align myself with the progressive views of the democratic party all while at the same time respecting those who may disagree with my political views. I am in the US Army and I serve with MANY conservatives and we often go back and forth on many issues such as my support for females going to Ranger School and females serving in infantry units. I am all for that while they are against that, but at the end of the day I respect their opinion and I am not "anti-them"

 

3) You like to throw out the term, "anti-feminist" as some type of general reaction or term to those who do not 100% align themselves with your views on feminism which is a really amuature tactic and shows your maturity on the subject. An anti-feminist is one who soley disagrees with the whole notion of feminism, these can be men or women. Their stance is that feminist have no valid arguments and that they should just shut up, get in line, and be normal citizens like the rest of us. No, I do not carry that stance. I do not describe myself as a feminist as I am more for Equalism, but again, that does not make me anti-Feminist as many of my arguments are arguments that many other feminist supports such as:

 

- A more equal role for women in the military (Ranger School, Special Ops, Infantry, Commander positions etc....) We just had 2 women graduate Ranger School for the first time and even as a male, I am proud of them and I cannot wait to see more women take up the challenge. Hopefully the success of these 2 women will show younger women that the military can be inclusive and is a great career path. 

 

- Equal Pay for Equal Work. If I as a male makes $75,000 for a similar job that my female counterpart does but only gets $65,000, then that is wrong and I am against that.

 

- Family leave for women to be able to stay home with their newborn child for an extended period without the fear of being fired from their job. This would open doors for women to better advance their careers in the same fashion as men, which historically are not really affected with the birth of a child.

 

- Pro Choice. Even though I would rather not have my baby aborted, I do respect the judgement of the person who is actually carrying that baby, which is the female. With that said, I believe it should be up to the female who make that life changing choice, not a bunch of males sitting in a government position wanting to relive the 1950s where women were 2nd class citizens.

 

- Better representation in the media. This covers all perspectives from videogames, journalism, and hollywood. Why do women typically have to be sideline reporters instead of the actual broadcasters up in the booth? Why is it okay for a male to be exclusively judged by their intellect and professionalism whereas a women is judge on intellect, professionalism......and physical appearance?

 

 

There are a whole slew of details that I support for women that many other feminist may support. However, I do not claim to be a feminist but an equalist which encompasses a wide ranger of equal and fair treatment of many other demographics, not just women. However, that does not make me anti-feminist. And yes, you are a feminist and yes I have disagreed with your stance as well as other radical stances on feminism but that does not make me anti-feminist.  You of all people should know that feminist are not a monolithic group and even within the feminist community, which includes men or "dudes" as you would say as well, even within that community there are varying opinions and viewpoints. This was similar to the black civil rights movement of the 1960s where you had the Dr. King faction that was more reasonable, and more in to peaceful protest and even wanting to include whites into their ranks (Think the Southern Christian Leadership Conference). Then you had the Malcom X faction, those closer to the Nation of Islam that believed that white people were the "devil" and that where ever there is whites, there will be war, disease, and persecution. They were more for aggressive protest and the like. Both had the same general goal which was a better society of blacks in America, but their methods and viewpoints were different. However, if someone from the Dr. King camp disagreed with the ideology of the Nation of Islam, that did not make them "anti-Black people" or anything to that nature. 

 

So do not for one second act like you know me because I have disagreed with you on some videogame message board. I have had my fair share of cooperation with women when it all started when it sat in on a "Women in Gaming" panel back in GDC 2010 which really opened my eyes to the perspectives of female gamers. But guess what, I agreed with some of their arguments but I ALSO disagreed with some of their arguments, but that didn't make me anti-women in gaming. Just mean that I am a human being and it is normal for me to not always 100% agree with some points with someone. I will be voting for Hillary Clinton, but I do not agree with everything she supports, such as her backing of Wall Street. But that does not make me anti-Hillary.

 

Furthermore, I brought this up before about my confusion about feminism. To me, there seems to be:

 

- Feminism that is simply for the fair treatment and equality for women as well as the freedom for women to be able to express themselves intellectually, spiritually, and even sexually. This form of feminism is what feminism was birthed from and was a major player in the 1960s and 1970s women's rights movements.

 

- Feminism that is only for the fair treatment and equality for women in places that gives women an advantage. In parts where being fair and equal puts women at a disadvantage, then they do not fight for it. It is similar to the, "Women want equality until the boat is sinking and suddenly they should be given preference simply cause they are women" trope. Or how my real life example about how women in my college class wanted women to be able to fight in the infantry (which I am for) because it gives them career options (advantage). But then when I mentioned that women in the US should be required to register for selective service like men, their faces turns sour. Why? I thought they wanted to be fair and equal?

 

- Feminism that is radical and is based around the evil "patriarchy" and that all men are dogs and that society would be a better place if women were in control rather than men. 

 

In my life I have encountered women from all 3 types. Personally, I would have to say that I am more for point #1 as it aligns with my equalist viewpoints.

 

In the end, I have disagreed with MANY of your feminist assertions, but calling me anti-feminist because I do not agree with you is a very immature tactic because you do not know anything about me or what I have supported outside of this BSN videogame forum. 

[maia0407]

I've seen the offended cry of "You don't know me" to justify many positions. Obviously I don't know you. I only know what you post and from what I've seen of you, you do not appear to really support feminism. Sure, you like to talk about supporting feminism but all I've ever seen from you is nitpicking at feminist points, misrepresentations of what feminists say, and actually reposting MRA type videos. Sorry, I don't believe your support is as strong as you like to claim. You seem to want to derail every feminist discussion into a, "But, what about men?" conversation.

 

So, that's fine, flail around and call me immature because I don't buy into your argument that you are a feminist ally. I just can't buy into it when you are busy trying to find fault with feminism rather than supporting women. And, yes, the fact that you are a guy does factor into the conversation. You have every right to your opinion but you have no idea what it feels like to live in this society as a woman. I would never claim to speak for black people or claim that my perspective has as much insight as theirs as I don't live as a black person. You should get that without me having to point it out. So, I dunno, maybe take some time to listen to what most feminists are actually saying and stop labeling everything you disagree with as radical. Perhaps you should actually do some reading and stop cherry picking articles from people that agree with your viewpoint. Ya' know, take your own advice?

[Majestic Jazz]

I've seen the offended cry of "You don't know me" to justify many positions. Obviously I don't know you. I only know what you post and from what I've seen of you, you do not appear to really support feminism. Sure, you like to talk about supporting feminism but all I've ever seen from you is nitpicking at feminist points, misrepresentations of what feminists say, and actually reposting MRA type videos. Sorry, I don't believe your support is as strong as you like to claim. You seem to want to derail every feminist discussion into a, "But, what about men?" conversation.

 

So, that's fine, flail around and call me immature because I don't buy into your argument that you are a feminist ally. I just can't buy into it when you are busy trying to find fault with feminism rather than supporting women. And, yes, the fact that you are a guy does factor into the conversation. You have every right to your opinion but you have no idea what it feels like to live in this society as a woman. I would never claim to speak for black people or claim that my perspective has as much insight as theirs as I don't live as a black person. You should get that without me having to point it out. So, I dunno, maybe take some time to listen to what most feminists are actually saying and stop labeling everything you disagree with as radical. Perhaps you should actually do some reading and stop cherry picking articles from people that agree with your viewpoint. Ya' know, take your own advice?

 

1) I never said I was a feminist. In fact, I clearly said that I identify as a equalist. 

 

2) One does not have to be a feminist to be in support of women. This is an issue that a certain number of feminist have a problem grasping. I am not a feminist because the feminist ideology is too broad and vague for me and has so many contradictions/inconsistencies so therefore I decide to just identify as a equalist which encompasses women but many other demographics as well.

 

3) You are a feminist, but you are not feminism. Just because I do not support your perspective does not mean that I do not support any other perspective of feminism. Who are you to say what true feminism is or isn't? Why are you the subject matter expert and everyone isnt? Again, I am not a feminist, but I do support some of their ideals, ideals that you may not support because it is a different doctrine of feminism that is more aligned with equalism. 

 

4) What is it with MRA? I am not a feminist nor am I a MRA activist. I make an example about the selective service and suddenly I am throwing out a MRA argument? LOL, Just cause I have problems with your viewpoints on feminism and post videos or articles that shows another perspective, that somehow makes it MRA? Why does everything have to be absolutes with you? Why does it have to be a, "I am drawing a line in the sand and either you are on my side or not." That is a very amuature tactic to shows your intolerance of those who do not always agree with you. Well, welcome to life, not everyone will agree with you 100% on everything and just because they do not agree with you, does not make them "anti-whatever" or on another opposing faction to you. You imply that I do not support women because I am not a feminist which is just a childish comparison and one of the many reason why many people (mainly women) have a problem with feminism because some supporters like to do what you do and draw and line and say get on my side and if you aren't, then you are clearly against me. 

 

 

This is what I like about Carly Fiorina. She is a conservative running for the Republican nomination. She isn't a self described feminist in the same way Hillary Clinton is, but that does not mean she is against women either. She just happens to have opposing opinions on modern feminism and would rather for women to advance themselves and better themselves without believing themselves to be victims of something. Both Fiorina and Clinton want to empower women, but they have different ways of going about it. Obviously I do not like her politics, but the point I am trying to make is that to be for women's rights can encompass many tactics, strategies, and perspectives, many of which may not fall in line with your doctrine of feminism. With that said, according to you, Carly Fiorina and many conservative/Republican women are against the advancement of women. Again, the problem in reasoning by using absolutes which is something you love to do a lot.

[maia0407]

1) I never said I was a feminist. In fact, I clearly said that I identify as a equalist. 

 

2) One does not have to be a feminist to be in support of women. This is an issue that a certain number of feminist have a problem grasping. I am not a feminist because the feminist ideology is too broad and vague for me so therefore I decide to just identify as a equalist which encompasses women but many other demographics as well.

 

3) You are a feminist, but you are not feminism. Just because I do not support your perspective does not mean that I do not support any other perspective of feminism. Who are you to say what true feminism is or isn't? Why are you the subject matter expert and everyone isnt?

 

4) What is it with MRA? I am not a feminist nor am I a MRA activist. Just cause I have problems with your viewpoints on feminism and post videos or articles that shows another perspective, that somehow makes it MRA? Why does everything have to be absolutes with you? Why does it have to be a, "I am drawing a line in the sand and either you are on my side or not." That is a very amuature tactic to shows your intolerance of those who do not always agree with you. Well, welcome to life, not everyone will agree with you 100% on everything and just because they do not agree with you, does not make them "anti-whatever". You imply that I do not support women because I am not a feminist which is just a childish comparison. 

An MRA is a Men's Right Activist. I've seen a lot of people on these forums throwing out a lot of the same arguments they put out but don't want to be called an MRA. That's why I say "MRA type arguement, etc" to avoid getting into the conversation of whether or not you call yourself an MRA. Although, I find it funny that so many guys are allergic to the label when they use the exact same arguments.

 

Honestly, I really don't care if you want to throw around the immature label to, I don't know,  make yourself feel better. (I think that's what you are calling me, anyway. You've had the same typo in several posts so I'm not sure)

 

Here's the point you seem to repeatedly miss: I have never claimed to be 'feminism'. I have pointed out that many of your stances are hostile towards what many feminists are saying. You misrepresent what most feminists actually say and seem to focus on some fringe minority. You do not seem interested in making gaming or anything else better for women; you seem overly concerned about women getting something more than men. I'm going on the very statements you've made. How on earth can you sit here and claim to be for equality when you posted a video questioning women's choices in what they wear? I don't know, you just come off as really tone deaf and missing the point most of the time. Maybe you have good intentions but you sure don't act like an ally, feminist or 'equalist' or otherwise.

[Majestic Jazz]

An MRA is a Men's Right Activist. I've seen a lot of people on these forums throwing out a lot of the same arguments they put out but don't want to be called an MRA. That's why I say "MRA type arguement, etc" to avoid getting into the conversation of whether or not you call yourself an MRA. Although, I find it funny that so many guys are allergic to the label when they use the exact same arguments.

 

Honestly, I really don't care if you want to throw around the immature label to, I don't know,  make yourself feel better. (I think that's what you are calling me, anyway. You've had the same typo in several posts so I'm not sure)

 

Here's the point you seem to repeatedly miss: I have never claimed to be 'feminism'. I have pointed out that many of your stances are hostile towards what many feminists are saying. You misrepresent what most feminists actually say and seem to focus on some fringe minority. You do not seem interested in making gaming or anything else better for women; you seem overly concerned about women getting something more than men. I'm going on the very statements you've made. How on earth can you sit here and claim to be for equality when you posted a video questioning women's choices in what they wear? I don't know, you just come off as really tone deaf and missing the point most of the time. Maybe you have good intentions but you sure don't act like an ally, feminist or 'equalist' or otherwise.

 

I am concerned with women getting something that is equal to men, like why I support expand roles in the military for women and new mothers given time to take off with their child without fear of being fired. 

 

Also what videos have I posted that judged women on what they can wear? Please, link me to that video, I dare you because you cant. I posted a video by Christina Hoff Sommers and I posted some videos by ShoeOnHead. Niether of them say what women are allowed to where or arent allowed to wear. They simply talk about some of the inconsitences with many feminist argument.

 

Finally, my "ally" status to feminist or equalist is not up for you to judge. You may think that I am not an ally to women's rights well guess what? You are free to believe that, but I know what I am and what I have done, I do not need your approval to justify my stances. Again, who are you to say what I am or not? What makes you so superior?

 

Yes, I have had MANY run ins on this forum against some of the feminist claims. But again, that does not make me against the progress of women.

[maia0407]

Yes, I am talking about the video you posted in this very thread with the supposed inconsistencies. Again, point missed as you don't see the difference in individual real live human women choosing for themselves what they will wear and overwhelmingly male video game designers typically depicting women one way in video games. Remember that video? And, you want people to believe you are an ally when you hold those views? If you don't get the problem with that basic point, I really don't know what else to say other than, whelp, I guess that's what makes me superior to judge. (that's tongue in cheek btw) And, yes, obviously I can make a judgment for myself whether or not I believe you to be an ally. You don't really have any control over that. Well, you do if you acted like an ally but we're not there.

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes, I am talking about the video you posted in this very thread with the supposed inconsistencies. Again, point missed as you don't see the difference in individual real live human women choosing for themselves what they will wear and overwhelmingly male video game designers typically depicting women one way in video games. Remember that video? And, you want people to believe you are an ally when you hold those views? If you don't get the problem with that basic point, I really don't know what else to say other than, whelp, I guess that's what makes me superior to judge. (that's tongue in cheek btw) And, yes, obviously I can make a judgment for myself whether or not I believe you to be an ally. You don't really have any control over that. Well, you do if you acted like an ally but we're not there.

 

 

And yes you can make the judgement for yourself of what you perceive for me to be based on some online identity. You are free to do that . However, what I am or am not is only known to me and those who interact with me everyday on a personal and professional basis, much of which you have no idea about and nor do I care to explain myself to you, and that is something you do not know nothing about. 

 

Problem with you is that you deal in absolutes. In your mind, I am against the progress of women because I have views that differ from yours. My arguments with feminism is that there are too many inconsistencies that I do not agree with. One other major one is how the feminist movement treats black women or even Hispanic women. Feminism is great when generally white women succeed because of it (remember, White women have benefited most from affirmative action whereas black women haven't) but when black women make specific arguments for a feminist ideal that speaks to the concerns of black women (like the loud black woman trope) then the white feminist are nowhere in sight for support....and yet they are supposed to be for the fair and equal treatment of ALL women.

 

That is why as an African-American, I am more of a equalist or humanist because my views supports fair and equal treatment of MANY demographics, not just one:

 

- Women

- Men

- Military Veterans

- Senior Citizens

- LGBT citizens

- Illegal Immagrants/Political Refugees (Think Syrian refugees)

- Mentally Disabled

- Physically Disabled

- Poor people

- Homeless people

- Etc.....

 

In this I can feel good knowing that my actions in my professional as well as personal settings favors all these demographic groups, not just one because at the end of the day, we as a democratic society based around a constitutional republic only succeeds when ALL citizens receives that fair and equal treatment/opportunity across the board. I have been attacked by some feminist because of this.

 

Hell, I was even told (not in person but on a videogame discussion board elsewhere) that because I am not a feminist, then I am "pro rape". Now how radical does that sound?

 

I guess that means that if you aren't part of Black Lives Matter or the NAACP then that makes you "anti-Black" or "Pro-Jim Crow".

[BioWareMod02]

This thread is being closed because it has derailed.