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Confused about one aspect of a certain Elven mage's plan. (Trespasser ending spoilers)


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#1
Hydwn

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Specifically, who populates Neo-Elvhenen after the Veil comes down...?

 

I haven't taken my Lavellan Inquisitor through Trespasser yet (just my Trevelyan, Adaar, and Cadash) but folks in this thread seem quite certain that the reason a Lavellan (even a romanced one) cannot join him is that both City and Dalish Elves will die in the initial cataclysm.

 

I'm guessing all the original elves will not spring back to life.  Presumably most or all died after the Veil came down.  There may be other caches of ancient Elves - such as the ones Leliana mentions in the Tirashan who probably worship the Forgotten Ones - but if their numbers are like the ones at the Temple of Mythal are any indication, even if there's a surviving temple for every Elven god, there's not likely enough to repopulate a species.  Even an immortal species is going to need to replace its numbers lost to war and violence.  

 

Worse, if those other temples exist, they'd be bound to the will of Evanuris as Abelas was bound to Mythal, and so would be his enemies.

 

Another possibility is that there are secretly groups of sleeping elves somewhere like the Protheans on Ilos in Mass Effect (and probably as effective) but the Protheans were expecting to be woken up eventually.  Even Solas never expected to be tearing down his own Veil when he built it.  Any who expected the Evanuris to rescue them probably would never have planned for so long without a rescue (and if they did they would likely be loyal to the Evanuris).

 

I also guess that if he's secretly luring away disaffected elves, he's either lying to them, or they know they're going to be dying in the cataclysm.  It seems strange so many would join his rebellion, though, if they knew.

 

Any thoughts on where this is going?  I'll admit to being completely confused :P


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#2
caradoc2000

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Solas pulls the ancient elves from his hat like magician's wabbits.


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#3
Lynroy: Final Edition

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Nugs.

#4
Wulfram

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There are ancient elves hanging about. "Your people yet linger" as he says to Abelas.

It's possible there are other people trapped with the Evanuris.

Or perhaps if the fan speculation that the elven people began as spirits is true, the world will simply be repopulated by spirits taking elven form.
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#5
the Dame

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MajesticFarflungFairyfly.gif

 

Nugs.

 

Hey, we are talking elves, innit'?

So.. the Hart of Gold it is.


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#6
Lynroy: Final Edition

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*snip*

 

 

Hey, we are talking elves, innit'?

So.. the Hart of Gold it is.

ibmgdHn.png?1


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#7
Cobra's_back

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"Any thoughts on where this is going?  I'll admit to being completely confused"

 

He doesn't mind killing many for a few. Solas may have a stash of them hiding somewhere. They could be hanging out in the crossroads. Felassan in "The Masked Empire" was an ancient elf.



#8
Poledo

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Solas said he has a plan for the evanuris, the rest however....well I feel very safe speculating that Bioware doesn't even know fully yet. They are writing that now, and it will be tweaked 500 times between now and when it is released.



#9
vertigomez

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He plans to repopulate the entire elven race with nothing but massive stamina reserves and a whole lot of elven glory.

giddit boi
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#10
Mr.House

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There's strong implications that the ancient elves where just spirits in a fleshy body (Coles line about Solas and his self portrait mural, the forbidden ones shedding their physical body to becoming demons ect)

 

Solas also told Abelas that his people still linger and there might be more agents like Felassan out there, ancient elves that pass off as modern elves.


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#11
Gervaise

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There does seem a very strong link between ancient elves and spirits, so it is likely he is planning on re-establishing his brave new world in the same way the old one was, with spirits that gradually become more material as they have direct contact with the material world.    Even his narrow minded, blinkered way of viewing the world suggests someone who had a spirit element to them (think how single minded Anders became when occupied by Justice).   Nothing matters to him but undoing what he did before, regardless of who gets in the way, and just like before he doesn't have the imagination or complexity of thought to think where his plan might go wrong.   Just as he never conceived of the idea that an ancient Tevinter Magister might have found the secret to immortality even though he had survived down to the present day.

 

As for all those poor suckers who are rushing off to join him; well look how he used the Inquisitor.    Naturally he is not going to tell them that when the Veil goes down, they are all doomed.    He probably is going to suggest that all the nasty other races will snuff it and that elven glory will be restored.     So long as Abelas and elves like him keep their mouths shut about the modern elves not being of their People, it will be plain sailing for him.

 

The evanuris made a clear warning about the Dread Wolf and is about the only piece of writing giving their point of view as opposed to his.  

 

"Beware the many forms of Fen'Harel.  The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits.   He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison."

 

To be honest I don't think the Dalish got it wrong about him at all.   They are the descendants of the followers of the evanuris who survived the cataclysm and their racial memory was good.     Some of those we hear in the library weren't too pleased about what he did either and vowed revenge if they managed to escape.   (They probably didn't).    So I'm just going to be really disappointed if they have all the Dalish running off on mass to join him.    The city elves, poor s*ds don't know any better and probably view him as their saviour.


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#12
the Dame

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ibmgdHn.png?1

 

I. Regret. Nothing.

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#13
Hydwn

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There are ancient elves hanging about. "Your people yet linger" as he says to Abelas.

It's possible there are other people trapped with the Evanuris.

Or perhaps if the fan speculation that the elven people began as spirits is true, the world will simply be repopulated by spirits taking elven form.

 

That's a possibility i hadn't considered.  I wonder if they did start as spirits.  It would explain a lot.



#14
Hydwn

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To be honest I don't think the Dalish got it wrong about him at all.   They are the descendants of the followers of the evanuris who survived the cataclysm and their racial memory was good.     Some of those we hear in the library weren't too pleased about what he did either and vowed revenge if they managed to escape.   (They probably didn't).    So I'm just going to be really disappointed if they have all the Dalish running off on mass to join him.    The city elves, poor s*ds don't know any better and probably view him as their saviour.

 

Well, the Dalish were freed slaves who learnt about everything from studying artifacts left over from ancient times, but point taken.  Maybe we could reveal these things to his followers in DA4?



#15
Statare

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Solas in his little speech about what would happen if the Veil were gone, hypothetically, and why demons happen says it's all because the Veil prevents "true" understanding impossible. Add to that the hints that somehow spirits/elves might be linked (either Spirits taking physical form to become elves or when elves "died" they become spirits or both or neither), and I think the Veil might actually have broken a natural "cyclical" system. Both Spirits and physical beings became incomplete. The physical beings of the post Veil world probably lack the capacity to connect to the Spirit world in a way they would not "short circuit" when the Veil is removed. Mages might possess the ability to survive but I am not sure, Solas is vague as to what would happen, but maybe even mages are not connected enough to the energies of the Fade to survive the transition. Another question would be entities like Wynne or Anders, would they survive? Considering they are super connected to the Fade? 

 

Plus the very laws of physics might change. Some spirits might become fleshy beasts and kill mortals too. The Varghest codex entry implies people thought they were spirits once... maybe animals were spirits, more primitive spirits like spirits of hunger... maybe. Could be why Thedas has such bizarre fauna. Sounds like a lot of things could happen.


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#16
Almostfaceman

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Elves are flocking to Solas because he's going to restore them after removing the Veil. It's already been established that "modern elves" still have a unique connection to the Fade. See dialogue between Solas and Sera, plus the Inquisitor - if they're Dalish - sees the Crossroads differently than, say, humans or dwarves. 

 

Solas says he caused the elves to lose their immortality. Most of the ancient elves are dead. 



#17
Xcorpyo

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I think his People have been around us from the fist game. We just didn't realize it yet. 

We now know that the elves’ immortality was connected to the Fade somehow. And the price they had to pay for it was being bound to it for eternity.

I think the elven Uthenera(endless dream) was in fact the Fade pre Veil. At first they needed to perform a ritual to stay there for long periods of time, but after a time they could do it at will.

 

From the information we have so far, the elven version of the Fade had no demons what so ever, people actually preferring it to the real world when they got to bored with immortality. There were some spirits there, because when they returned from their sleep they seem to have learned a lot of new things. Or maybe they learned those things from other elves they met in the Fade, or their gods that were ruling them from the Golden City.

 

So when Fen’harel raised the Veil, he couldn’t warn the People about it because the gods could find out and return to their bodies, thus escaping the trap.

Since the gods themselves were unable to return to the waking world, I’m sure the normal souls had no chance of doing it as well.

In time, the souls started to forget their identity, and most of them became demons. The rest became peaceful spirits, but people can taint those in time, thus the hurry to remove the Veil before all the spirits are changed for good, and the Corypheus debacle..

 

I don’t even think there ever was a huge trap setting to begin with. All he had to do was raise the Veil during the night, when most people were asleep, even the ‘gods’. Well, except the night guards, some people who got the night shift, bars, brothels, temples, stc. Maybe he even saved some in some way. He could just command all his followers to keep a three day vigil in honor of Mythal. Nobody would have tought ‘****! He’s blowing up the Fade’ with just that information.

 

Agreed, he once said that every elf was able to access the Fade at will, doesn’t mean they all did all the time. Maybe the slaves and the poor part of the society had limited or no access. After all, the big shots couldn’t feel so awesome while traipsing in the Fade if everybody could do it at will.

 

But of those that could access the Fade at night, I think many were doing it. After all, if you can choose between random dream no775/nightmare and a customizable dream in which you are trapped on an island with 100 naked supermodels, all madly in love with you and willing to satisfy your every whim, of course we’ll go for the nightmare.

 

After the Veil was created, the Fade was very quiet for a long time. It took a long time before a Tevinter dreamer(why a dreamer especially if every mage could access it?) managed to pierce the Veil and learned blood magic from a spirit/demon.

We also know from the Tevinter lore that at their peak the Tevinter Imperium was ruled by a group of strong dreamers(especially from the comics). So the old gods realized that in order to weaken the Veil they needed a lot of blood magic, a lot of massacres, and a lot of people in duress/pain. So enter the Blight, Circles, demonic possession, Veil is getting weaker with each Blight, each demon possession, each case of blood magic(the Contess).

 

Back on the topic of the People, we don’t know if Fen’harel sees even the demons as bad. They are his People after all, and they became demons because he trapped them in the Fade and couldn’t free them in time. So they probably rate higher on his like scale as any living being in the world. After all, he seems to have quite a nice chat with the demon we can feed Hawke to, and they seem to know each other quite well. He even admits that he has many friends among the spirits, while he sees the living as a bunch of tranquils.  And let’s not forget how berserk he gets when some stupid mages summon a peaceful spirit, force him(her) do do something bad, thus turning it into a demon. Solas has to kill it after he fights it, and if the Inq allows it, he can slaughter all the mages that did that.

 

Since creating the Veil rifts had no adverse effect on spirits, removing the Veil will only benefit the inhabitants of the Fade, who will be able to walk the physical world at will.

On the other hand, the living, and I mean the one that survive the Veil  being removed, will probably have a very nasty wake up call.

 

And at the end of Trespasser we see that elves start disappearing all over Thedas, so maybe he has a safe zone that won’t be affected as bad as the rest of the world, like the Crossroads or some underground temple.

Or maybe he just needs some suckers to use their blood to have the power to bring down the Veil and release the Kraken. Ahhh, I mean the spirits of the Fade.  


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#18
Belladoni

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Maybe "his" people are trapped as spirits, and he wants all the "Inquisitor's world" elves as vessels for them.  Or, maybe he'll use them for one big blood ritual.  (I think he's proven he'll do whatever he thinks it will take to achieve his agenda, sad face or no.)  Just speculation.


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#19
Gervaise

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Whilst elves do still have magic in their blood, unlike humans and other races, I do not believe this will grant them immunity from the affects of the Veil coming down.    He specifically says to an elven Inquisitor that it will result in the destruction of their people.   He also makes it clear that in removing the mark he is granting them a temporary reprieve from death.    It will no longer be the mark that kills them but him going through with his plan.    It is not so clear if you are on good terms with him but if you view You Tube videos of an antagonistic elven Inquisitor, then he is much more explicit about this.    I do wonder if even Solas himself will die and return to spirit form.   May be this is part of his plan to deal with the evanruis, so that all material bodies will be destroyed but those with magic in the blood will return to their spirit state and survive.     He killed Felassan for the crime of thinking that Briala was "People" and letting her keep control of the eluvian for her elves.   Whilst the Inquisitor has caused him to re-evaluate the worth of modern races so that they "deserve better" than what he is going to do to them, it has not deflected him from his purpose.   Nothing that he has said to date has suggested anything other than everyone, possibly bar ancient elves in uthenera, will de in the "fires of chaos".



#20
Hydwn

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Thanks guys.  The theory of ancient Elves as Cole-type solid spirits is an interesting one, but it makes me wonder why Solas objected so harshly to Cole becoming one...?  In Cole's personal quest, he wants him to remain a normal spirit.

 

Still, the elves-as-spirits is the best theory running.  I'd be very surprised if there were large caches of ancient Elves in Uthenera, though that might set up an interesting scene like on Ilos in Mass Effect with the dead Prothean pods.  What if he's on the verge of executing his plan, and discovers that not enough Elves survived the millennia?



#21
Klinker1234

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Hard to say who will end up populating the Solas Imperium, ancient elves who come back from the fade/uthenera?

 

Maybe city elves since they share a similarity with the elven slaves Solas freed back in ancient Elvhenan?

 

Certanly not the Dalish, since they still very much worship the Evanuris, also we all know what Solas thinks of the Dalish.



#22
Gervaise

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I wouldn't set too much store by what he said about the Dalish, since he was trying to deflect people from enquiring too much about what he knew, so he claimed the Dalish chased him off but we don't know if that is the case.   The epilogue screen clearly shows an elf with vallaslin joining him and has hair, so not an ancient elf since they all seem bald.    Thus it would seem that at least some Dalish have been taken in by his promises.   

 

The reason why Solas was against Cole become more material, in hindsight, probably has to do with his plan.    A spiritual Cole will be able to survive whereas a more solid Cole may not.   Also he wants Cole to be pure compassion so he can bring comfort to the inhabitants of Thedas in their suffering, since he has this peculiar idea that it is okay to inflict this on them provided he makes their death as comfortable as possible.   People have the oddest ways of justifying their actions.


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#23
Ellawynn

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Hard to say who will end up populating the Solas Imperium, ancient elves who come back from the fade/uthenera?

 

Maybe city elves since they share a similarity with the elven slaves Solas freed back in ancient Elvhenan?

 

Certanly not the Dalish, since they still very much worship the Evanuris, also we all know what Solas thinks of the Dalish.

Why would the city elves live/the Dalish die simply because of what Solas feels about them? He's not picking and choosing who gets to live. Otherwise he probably just wouldn't kill anyone.