We don't know too much about the world outside of Thedas, but I do believe that Humans have always existed even before the Veil was created by Solas. It's just that they probably were a lot more "primitive" than the Avvar we see in JoH.
At the very least we know that the Avvar-humans lived far south of Thedas and were driven off by a powerful spirit (Shadow Goddess)
The Proto-Tevinters seem to have sailed to Thedas from the North
If you consider 200 years before (give or take a decade) "short".
That's when the elves first noticed the quickening. In fact I believe that is exactly how its phrased in the World of Thedas "The elves first notice the quickening". We don't know that the elves started aging as fast as humans instantaneously. It might be that they gradually began to age faster and faster.
So we don't know exactly when the Veil was created.
That's when the elves first noticed the quickening. In fact I believe that is exactly how its phrased in the World of Thedas "The elves first notice the quickening". We don't know that the elves started aging as fast as humans instantaneously. It might be that they gradually began to age faster and faster.
So we don't know exactly when the Veil was created.
Another thing that's kinda odd is that they remember and recorded the quickening, but there is no records or knowledge of the Veils creation? This leads me to think that the Veil was already in place for quite a long time.
Of course, the more likely scenario is that they had no intention of writing in an elf-made Veil in the beginning. 
Another thing that's kinda odd is that they remember and recorded the quickening, but there is no records or knowledge of the Veils creation? This leads me to think that the Veil was already in place for quite a long time.
Of course, the more likely scenario is that they had no intention of writing in an elf-made Veil in the beginning.
Almost all information of ancient Elvhenan is reconstructed hearsay. They know they used to be immortal, and blame the humans for obviously not being immortal anymore. But elves born after the Veil had no conception of what was lost when it was created.
Missing a piece of information like that isn't so unbelievable.
Pretty sure I read somewhere on the Wiki that they came from Atmora, lead by Ysgramor, and began warring with the elves. My guess would be that the Veil caused Atmora to experience bad weather - possibly even a contained ice age, and so they had to leave and find land they could farm.
Pretty sure I read somewhere on the Wiki that they came from Atmora, lead by Ysgramor, and began warring with the elves. My guess would be that the Veil caused Atmora to experience bad weather - possibly even a contained ice age, and so they had to leave and find land they could farm.
*Not sure if serious
Wrong franchise, friend.
Almost all information of ancient Elvhenan is reconstructed hearsay. They know they used to be immortal, and blame the humans for obviously not being immortal anymore. But elves born after the Veil had no conception of what was lost when it was created.
Missing a piece of information like that isn't so unbelievable.
Yet they remember Arlathan. I just find it curious is all. But, like I said, the most likely reason is writing reasons rather than planning it that way.
Pretty sure I read somewhere on the Wiki that they came from Atmora, lead by Ysgramor, and began warring with the elves. My guess would be that the Veil caused Atmora to experience bad weather - possibly even a contained ice age, and so they had to leave and find land they could farm.
It would be effin hilarious if BW wrote the same story for humans without realizing it. 
The number of picard faceplam pictures that would ensue would be epic.
I think 200 years seems reasonable. They probably wouldn't realize they were mortal for 50ish years. Following that their leaders appear to have turned to blood magic to extend their lives (based on comments in one of the books that ancient elves extended their lives using blood magic). Said blood magic probably weakened their connection to the Fade, reducing their lifespan further ironically. That continues for more than a century until TI has come into power and wipes what little remains away to steal all the remaining goodies.If you consider 200 years before (give or take a decade) "short".
Yet Arlathan wasn't conquered by the Imperium until 214 years after Tevinter was formed. Which just doesn't fit with that idea. If the Elvhen lost their immortality before the Imperium was formed then they must have spend over 200 years moping until they were finally conquered.
It is odd. Perhaps they destroyed the records to conceal the fact that they didn't actually overthrow Arlathan but simply picked at the leftovers? Seems a silly reason though Dorian does say the magisters have a sense of pride about conquering Arlathan.
Yet they remember Arlathan. I just find it curious is all. But, like I said, the most likely reason is writing reasons rather than planning it that way.
They know Arlathan existed, the most famous city of their empire, but they have only distorted information about what it was like. I'm not sure why that's even relevant.
I think 200 years seems reasonable. They probably wouldn't realize they were mortal for 50ish years. Following that their leaders appear to have turned to blood magic to extend their lives (based on comments in one of the books that ancient elves extended their lives using blood magic). Said blood magic probably weakened their connection to the Fade, reducing their lifespan further ironically. That continues for more than a century until TI has come into power and wipes what little remains away to steal all the remaining goodies.
It just occurred to me though that the ancient elves might have used TI as scape goats blaming them for the creation of the Veil, which resulted in the Quickening.
Source for the blood magic bit? I believe that was just a scholar speculating.
My theory since before Tresspasser has been that the first humans were spirits trapped outside the Fade following the creation of the Veil which then became "more complicated" in order to survive the unchanging world. Basically exactly what Cole did only on a massive scale. Tresspasser basically confirmed some of my assumptions (e.g., Elvhes lost their immortality due to the Veil), so I am sticking to that theory.
Some of the codex entries in Trespasser seem to indicate that the elves basically were spirits that figured out how to take physical form (the "Formless Ones" were cursed because they ABANDONED their forms to escape into the Fade during some unspecified disaster that they could have helped with). So it's entirely possible that this is also what humans are, only different in form, possibly because of whatever bizarre connection humans have with whatever the Old Gods actually are.
It's also possible that humans are the result of a mix of ancient elves and ancient dwarves, both of which existed prior to the arrival of humans and both of which may have been rather different than modern elves or dwarves. The dwarves seem to have been "made" by the Titans somehow.
If humans really did come into existence because of Solas' shenanigans, though, if you interpret the Chant literally that'd kind of make Solas the Maker. Which my Inquisitor would find HILARIOUS.
They know Arlathan existed, the most famous city of their empire, but they have only distorted information about what it was like. I'm not sure why that's even relevant.
Because a city, no matter how great, would NOT be more famous than an event that remade the entire world. They have 0 information about the Veil not being there. That seems extremely unlikely.
It's also interesting to note that while the Fade was historically, uh, "coterminous" to the Unchanging World, they weren't *identical*--you could go exploring in the Fade in some way that didn't involve physically moving about in the real world. There's a codex entry about something the elves called "Epiphany" which could be reached via the Fade but only with great difficulty. I SUSPECT this may be the original form of the "Golden City". It may also be where the Evanuris are imprisoned.
My theory since before Tresspasser has been that the first humans were spirits trapped outside the Fade following the creation of the Veil which then became "more complicated" in order to survive the unchanging world. Basically exactly what Cole did only on a massive scale. Tresspasser basically confirmed some of my assumptions (e.g., Elvhes lost their immortality due to the Veil), so I am sticking to that theory.
I know solas calls them the Elhven but why do you say Elvhes and not Elves?
As for the "fall of Arlathan", Solas has already dismissed the idea that the Vints were responsible. What they conquered was probably a pale shadow built on the ruins of the true Arlathan.
Because a city, no matter how great, would NOT be more famous than an event that remade the entire world. They have 0 information about the Veil not being there. That seems extremely unlikely.
This is what happens when you don't plan ahead and instead make things up and add and change things as you go along: inconsistencies, retcons, and so on. 
This is what happens when you don't plan ahead and instead make things up and add and change things as you go along: inconsistencies, retcons, and so on.
This is what happens when you don't plan ahead and instead make things up and add and change things as you go along: inconsistencies, retcons, and so on.
?
I don't see see these inconistencies and retcons.
Yes i'm also interested in what the inconsistencies and retcons are? I do honestly feel the writers have done a good job with the lore in Dragon age. It reminds me of our own history and how you should view the historical material that we base our own historic understanding on. Historical writings could be written with a specific purpose (being propaganda for example). This becomes clear when you have several recordings of the same event where one for example writes about the king as being a murderous monster and the other of the righteous benevolent king. In my example you can probably conclude that the king actually existed, but wether he was a monster or not is up to debate. That's why you always should view historical writings with a critical eye. This is what I think Dragon age history is teaching us by giving us more layers to the same historical events and persons.
If you look at it from the perspective that everything you ever hear about ought to be 100% literally accurate in every conceivable respect, then, yeah, it becomes "inconsistencies" and "retcons". If you look at it from the perspective that the writers are telling you how people PERCEIVE the facts instead if just dictating the facts ex cathedra, then there are no inconsistencies or retcons, simply many perspectives on different events that were translated, retranslated, rendered into mythology, transformed for political or didactic purposes, etc. In which case it's really all quite fascinating.
If you look at it from the perspective that everything you ever hear about ought to be 100% literally accurate in every conceivable respect, then, yeah, it becomes "inconsistencies" and "retcons". If you look at it from the perspective that the writers are telling you how people PERCEIVE the facts instead if just dictating the facts ex cathedra, then there are no inconsistencies or retcons, simply many perspectives on different events that were translated, retranslated, rendered into mythology, transformed for political or didactic purposes, etc. In which case it's really all quite fascinating.
Kinda like in real life.
To quote Napoleon:
"History is a set of lies agreed upon"
I don't necessarily know that we should accept Solas and Abelas' "elvhen" snobbery as the final word on the post-veil elven world. After all, this is the person who would have dismissed modern Thedas as essentially a shadow world filled with non-people.
The post-veil Arlathan no doubt lacked the splendour of Solas' time, but it seems to have endured for centuries and should be considered a civilisation and culture in its own right.
Well, they do remember the creation of the veil as the imprisonment of their gods.
The destruction of the veil was an apocalyptic event. The basis for all their technology was destroyed. Their records were destroyed or lost. They had to try to rebuild their society.
Of course they remember Arlathan better, but that's not surprising. Arlathan fell to Tevinter 1000 years after the destruction of the veil. It might not be the "true Arlathan" to the "true elvhen", but the odds are that this is the civilisation the Dalish tales remember, through the distorted lens of centuries of illiterate slavery. A civilisation that itself looked back to before the veil as its golden age - and thus buried the truth of Solas' time under a double layer of legend.
You mean construction, right?
Because a city, no matter how great, would NOT be more famous than an event that remade the entire world. They have 0 information about the Veil not being there. That seems extremely unlikely.
The world wasn't nuked, it's landscape wasn't redefined, no forests were burned. The destruction caused by the creation of the Veil was much more subtle than that, something those who were there are acutely aware of but those who weren't can barely perceive if at all. That said, the event was remembered in elven legend, in the form of the myth of the Betrayal in which Fen'Harel seals away the elven gods.
You mean construction, right?
Right, yeah.
Or maybe I could claim I was speaking of the destruction caused by the veil and not being an idiot.
The world wasn't nuked, it's landscape wasn't redefined, no forests were burned. The destruction caused by the creation of the Veil was much more subtle than that, something those who were there are acutely aware of but those who weren't can barely perceive if at all. That said, the event was remembered in elven legend, in the form of the myth of the Betrayal in which Fen'Harel seals away the elven gods.
Their cities that were in the pocket realms were pretty much nuked and those who escaped through the Eluvians would have told the rest that their floating cities just crubmled.
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