259 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Not necessarily.

And I've already addressed some questions about the differences between using base code and middleware that someone else developed versus taking over complete responsibility for it.

You haven't managed to make a very convincing case out of it, though, seeing as they were switching engines anyway.

Not to mention - MP mostly reused SP assets, with a few new char kits, animations, powers thrown in.

Those N7 mission maps originated in Montreal, not Edmonton. So did Omega, and a fair amount of other SP assets.

Of course, this discussion seems to be focused primarily on code and graphics. It doesn't begin to address any of the realities of world-building, lore-building, species creation, or anything else involved in setting up the premise, goals, storylines, characters, mission structures of this whole new thing - or the process involved in converting this overall vision into something that's possible to realize within budget and fun to play.

What's the actual issue here? For the new races, worlds, and whatnot, there's no transfer issue because they didn't exist before, obviously. How difficult is it to transfer the relevant information on the old ones? And if nobody in Montreal has the right skilset for such work, there's nothing preventing them from transferring personnel or making new hires. Both of which they've done.

[Killroy]

I care and I am sure there are others who are concerned too.
An entirely new team can just go and change whatever they see fit for change. They can change the whole tone and direction of the ME universe for the worst.

You mean like the trilogy team did for ME2? There was a drastic shift in tone from ME1 to ME2.

That is very concerning. That same team from the Trilogy gave us the incredible and memorable Mass Effect 1 and 2. This new team just seems to care about exploration and little else.

And you're basing that on what? They've talked more about customization than exploration.

What a shame it would be to lose the Paragon/Renegade play opitions and moral choices/consequences that defined the previous trilogy

Where are you getting this? Nothing has been said that indicates they're removing those things from the series.

[Il Divo]

Long-term plan? From Bioware?

 

 As always, Alan. Spot on with the sarcasm. Well-played, Sir. ​

[Mcfly616]

It's irrelevant until you clearly prove him wrong and rub it in his well deserved face, he won't concede and when the concession comes it will be in the form of a report to the mods.

 

 

Some people try and dish it out but just can't take a loss.

 

[Pasquale1234]

<snip>

Asset sharing is not the same thing as knowledge transfer.

At no point did I use terminology like "massive expensive", "monumental task" or any of the other hyperbole you so casually toss into your spiel.

I only pointed out that there are some costs involved in transferring the entirety of an IP from one group to another - which there are.

[Pasquale1234]

You haven't managed to make a very convincing case out of it, though, seeing as they were switching engines anyway.

Are you expecting me to make a case for something I never said?
 

What's the actual issue here? For the new races, worlds, and whatnot, there's no transfer issue because they didn't exist before, obviously. How difficult is it to transfer the relevant information on the old ones? And if nobody in Montreal has the right skilset for such work, there's nothing preventing them from transferring personnel or making new hires. Both of which they've done.

The people who conceived the world and have been working with it for several years would likely have a backlog of ideas, plans, storylines, etc., that may exist nowhere but in their heads. They might have some great concepts for questlines / missions that have never been written because they didn't fit into the storylines they actually chose to go with. They also know what material they've considered, partly developed, and dropped, and they know all of the reasons behind all of those choices. I believe David Gaider once mentioned that he had general concepts for 5 DA games, and there may have been some other things built into the lore with specific storytelling opportunities in mind that have not yet come to fruition. Whether any of that information exists anywhere else, whether it will be passed to people currently working on the IP, whether it would be of any value is unknown - but there is always a loss of some value of experience when work is passed on.

[Erstus]

Good point ^^^^

Somthing else I loved in the ME games were the Corporations, Companies, and Mercenary organizations. I hope we see more of those groups explored in future titles

[Killroy]

Asset sharing is not the same thing as knowledge transfer.

What expense is there in "knowledge transfer"?
 

At no point did I use terminology like "massive expensive", "monumental task" or any of the other hyperbole you so casually toss into your spiel.

You said the process of one studio turning the franchise over to the other would be "pretty costly in and of itself." That doesn't line up with the facts. The new studio was already working on the franchise for years before they even started work on the Omega DLC. They obviously had the assets and knowledge of the franchise well before they ever began work on ME:A. So where is the cost? Why did you go from demanding to know my background in data transfer to this red herring of "knowledge transfer"?
 

I only pointed out that there are some costs involved in transferring the entirety of an IP from one group to another - which there are.

Where? Not in transferring assets that the new studio already has. Not in this "knowledge transfer" you're on about.
 

The people who conceived the world and have been working with it for several years would likely have a backlog of ideas, plans, storylines, etc., that may exist nowhere but in their heads.

Then they're bad at their jobs. Keeping ideas in your head means the team can never use them. And why doesn't BioWare have access to phones or email in this reality you've imagined?
 

They might have some great concepts for questlines / missions that have never been written because they didn't fit into the storylines they actually chose to go with.

See above, but also why would these storylines/quests be suitable for ME:A but not the trilogy?
 

They also know what material they've considered, partly developed, and dropped, and they know all of the reasons behind all of those choices.

Why would that be relevant to ME:A?
 

I believe David Gaider once mentioned that he had general concepts for 5 DA games, and there may have been some other things built into the lore with specific storytelling opportunities in mind that have not yet come to fruition.

The Dragon Age franchise has had a solid foundation of lore with long-spanning implications and mysteries for future titles to explore. Mass Effect was an aimless franchise and the people in charge were not planning ahead at all.
 

Whether any of that information exists anywhere else, whether it will be passed to people currently working on the IP, whether it would be of any value is unknown - but there is always a loss of some value of experience when work is passed on.

Were you this concerned about ME2? Or ME3? There were major changes in the dev team between titles. Most of the best writers had left the franchise before development started on ME3.

[Mcfly616]

Are you expecting me to make a case for something I never said?
 

 Probably.

[dreamgazer]

Good point ^^^^

Somthing else I loved in the ME games were the Corporations, Companies, and Mercenary organizations. I hope we see more of those groups explored in future titles

Corporations and companies, sure. A return to ME1-caliber content involving that would be ideal.

Had way more than enough of mercenary groups after ME2, though.

[NoForgiveness]

I imagine this is their long term plan..

 

.

[sjsharp2011]

                                                                                             <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

IMO, it is much too soon to speculate about its future. We'd be in a better position to do so, after ME:A is out.

 

 

Yeah I think they'll wait and see how Andromeda does and if it does well then try to make a longer term story /trilogy out of it if it turns out well. Whilst they did plan out a trilogy with Shepard and pulled it off very well for the most part in my opinion. I doubt they would have bothered with ME2  and ME3 if ME1 had ended up being a stinker. Fortunately for them it was revolutionary and was received very well because of how well it worked.

[Erstus]

Corporations and companies, sure. A return to ME1-caliber content involving that would be ideal.Had way more than enough of mercenary groups after ME2, though.

Agreed. I personally enjoyed the Feros mission and side-content involving Exogeni Corp.

[Killroy]

Whilst they did plan out a trilogy with Shepard and pulled it off very well for the most part in my opinion.

...

[Calinstel]

Hmmm, long term game plan....

 

I know, DLC and microtransactions.

[The Antagonist]

Churn out games until they stop selling

[Pasquale1234]

What expense is there in "knowledge transfer"?

It depends on how and how much is done.

It can occur face to face, via email, phone conversations, or not at all. Sometimes it involves writing, editing, inspecting documentation that would not otherwise be written. Knowledge that exists only in someone's head doesn't always get shared.

Sharing knowledge can be very time-consuming, usually includes multiple people, and frequently interrupts other work.
 

Why did you go from demanding to know my background in data transfer to this red herring of "knowledge transfer"?

I asked whether you had any direct experience with technology transfer.

Technology is not only digital assets, though that seems to be the only aspect you've addressed.
 

Then they're bad at their jobs. Keeping ideas in your head means the team can never use them.

People don't always have the time or inclination to record or develop all of their ideas. They have deadlines to meet.
 

See above, but also why would these storylines/quests be suitable for ME:A but not the trilogy?

Are you under the impression that every good idea is implemented? There's this thing called budget, and another thing that involves overall content goals that means some things are either never developed or cut. A story or questline that didn't fit into one title might do very well in another.
 

Were you this concerned about ME2? Or ME3? There were major changes in the dev team between titles. Most of the best writers had left the franchise before development started on ME3.

I'm not at all concerned about ME:A. You do realize this entire conversation started because you chose to argue with a very casual comment I made about their investment in the franchise, right?

[Mathias]

Churn out games until they stop selling

 

Yeah that's the kind I hope that isn't their plan. Oh I know all businesses are out to make money, but at least Mass Effect 1-3 was a story they wanted to tell.

[Schmonozov]

This is EA we're talking about...

[AlanC9]

Are you expecting me to make a case for something I never said?

Looks like I've lost the thread here. What's your position?

 The people who conceived the world and have been working with it for several years would likely have a backlog of ideas, plans, storylines, etc., that may exist nowhere but in their heads. They might have some great concepts for questlines / missions that have never been written because they didn't fit into the storylines they actually chose to go with. They also know what material they've considered, partly developed, and dropped, and they know all of the reasons behind all of those choices. I believe David Gaider once mentioned that he had general concepts for 5 DA games, and there may have been some other things built into the lore with specific storytelling opportunities in mind that have not yet come to fruition. Whether any of that information exists anywhere else, whether it will be passed to people currently working on the IP, whether it would be of any value is unknown - but there is always a loss of some value of experience when work is passed on.

Storylines that could be set in Andromeda?

Anyway, this is a bit thin. Some high-level game concepts that might be good, or might be Dark Energy 2.

[AlanC9]

It's irrelevant until you clearly prove him wrong and rub it in his well deserved face, he won't concede and when the concession comes it will be in the form of a report to the mods.
 
 
Some people try and dish it out but just can't take a loss.

Who's this directed at?

[dreamgazer]

Churn out games until they stop selling

What's the difference between "churn out games until they stop selling" and "continue to provide content for a willing audience?"

[dreamgazer]

Yeah that's the kind I hope that isn't their plan. Oh I know all businesses are out to make money, but at least Mass Effect 1-3 was a story they wanted to tell.

Is there any indication that BioWare Montreal don't want to tell this story?

[Ahglock]

Step 1 allow me to shoot aliens in the face with space guns.

Step 2 allow me to burn aliens with space science

Step 3 allow me to detonate aliens with space magic.

 

Their 3 step long term game plan for success.

[Han Shot First]

EA's long term gameplan for Mass Effect:

 

 

Replace Demi Moore with a middle-aged guy in a suit.