259 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Are you questioning whether they are too enthusiastic, then?

[Mathias]

You didn't say you were concerned about how enthusiastic the new team is about making the game? Really?

 

I never said "they are". But am I concerned about the future plans for the series and their enthusiasm over it? Yeah I am. There's plenty of people on here mentioning either in a serious or joking manner about the series just being milked at this point. So I'm not the only one, and I'm not fabricating anything out of thin air in order for me to feel this way.

[dreamgazer]

I never said "they are". But am I concerned about the future plans for the series and their enthusiasm over it? Yeah I am. There's plenty of people on here mentioning either in a serious or joking manner about the series just being milked at this point. So I'm not the only one, and I'm not fabricating anything out of thin air in order for me to feel this way.

... and I still haven't received a response from any of them about the difference between "milking a franchise" and "continuing to provide content for a willing audience".

[Sidney]

I'm not sure how "milked" it can be. Maybe if this was another Commander Shep game stretching it to 4 might be too long but this is merely taking the gaming world and setting another story in it. I find it hard to believe there is any reasonable setting that can't have more than 3 stories, and if you want to get technical the whole 3 are really one long arc about the Reaper invasion so sorta 1 story. I hate to say it but 20th century Europe has surely spawned more than 3 stories, likely a 1000x order of magnitude and that isn't played out.

[Mathias]

... and I still haven't received a response from any of them about the difference between "milking a franchise" and "continuing to provide content for a willing audience".

 

Maybe you're just confusing not receiving a response with not receiving a response you find satisfactory?

[dreamgazer]

Maybe you're just confusing not receiving a response with not receiving a response you find satisfactory?

I'd just like an actual response outlining the differences, what constitutes milking and what constitutes a new chapter.

Right now, any sequel or spinoff could be classified as "milking".

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I'd be fine with them milking Shepard and the team for all that they're worth. Citadel was a DLC devoted to milking Shepard and the team and it was spectacular and well-received. Dancing in a casino, falling through fish tanks, battling clones and hosting parties added something to the franchise that very few games can claim--there was depth beyond the main story, beyond generic sidequests. There is no ordinary day for Commander Shepard and Citadel was just a glance into the very charmed life that the Commander leads.

 

If we got a ME4 and it was a 50+ hour Citadel knock-off, I wouldn't complain. After all, in my opinion, the best games are the ones that blend serious and silly. In ME4, I don't get the vibe that we're going to get much of the latter. Maybe as more info comes out, I'll stand corrected. I hope so. Mass Effect is one of only two game series that I'm a really huge fan of, and I'd hate for it to fall by the wayside and fade into obscurity. I want ME4 to be the best game possible, but after the disappointment that was ME3, I am not optimistic.

[Mathias]

I'd just like an actual response outlining the differences, what constitutes milking and what constitutes a new chapter.

Right now, any sequel or spinoff could be classified as "milking".

 

They planned on ME3 being the end. The 3 endings made that very clear, as did Casey Hudson's comments. But then ok, plans change because the audience wants more. So then they decide to make another game. If that's the case then props where props are due. But even then that doesn't mean they're super happy to make another installment. It doesn't mean they have great plans for the series in mind. They could, but I'm not confident that they do. 

 

I get that the movie and gaming industry aren't the same. But when Marvel comes out and tells us their game plan for future movies, that shows me that have great confidence in their work, and have great plans for the fans and their movie universe. What I'm hoping to see over the next year or two, is for Bioware to have that same kind of mentality with Mass Effect: Andromeda. No I don't expect them to say "And then ME:A2 in 2019, ME vs DA in 2020 and ME:A3 in 2021!" But I would like to see them say something along the lines of "Hey, we're not finished yet. Just wait and see what we got in store! Better hold on to those Andromeda saves."

[dreamgazer]

I don't really understand what's wrong with taking things one step at a time, and why that suggests milking or a lack of enthusiasm.

And yeah, let's not drag Marvel into this, because there are plenty of enthusiasm issues and milking concerns with their phases.

[Killroy]

I never said "they are". But am I concerned about the future plans for the series and their enthusiasm over it? Yeah I am. There's plenty of people on here mentioning either in a serious or joking manner about the series just being milked at this point. So I'm not the only one, and I'm not fabricating anything out of thin air in order for me to feel this way.

Unless you have evidence that the new team would rather be making something else and are thus unenthusiastic about ME:A you are fabricating these concerns out of thin air.
I could say that I'm concerned about the number of ocelots Donald Trump has eaten but unless I have evidence that he's eaten ocelots I'm just pulling crap out of my butt.

[AlanC9]

Even if Bio did say that they had big plans, would that be worth believing? They've already said that they're excited about the project, so the only way that can be in doubt is if we think Bio's flat-out lying. If they're lying about the one thing, they could be lying about the other.

[Fidite Nemini]

Milking it.

 

First, foremost and ultimate longterm plan for any of their flagship franchises.

[dragonflight288]

I'm pretty sure the long-term plan is to make a large enough profit to plan out their next project. 

 

*sigh* We need a brand new IP soon. I love Dragon Age and I love Mass Effect, but variety's the spice of life as they say. 

[Killroy]

I'm pretty sure the long-term plan is to make a large enough profit to plan out their next project.

*sigh* We need a brand new IP soon. I love Dragon Age and I love Mass Effect, but variety's the spice of life as they say.

They already have a new IP in the works. It's apparently in a contemporary setting and David Gaider is the head writer.

[LinksOcarina]

Honestly, I would argue stuff like Call of Duty is a milked franchise; yearly releases with THREE dev teams working on one game at a time...

 

or Assassins Creed, with four-five development teams oftentimes working on the same game...

 

If Mass Effect getting a 4th game in 10 years is milking...then BioWare is doing it wrong.

[Arcian]

Pessimists are always disappointed. That's pretty much the whole deal. If they weren't disappointed in everything they wouldn't be pessimists. What you're describing is a neutral attitude, not a pessimistic attitude.

Disappointment requires hopeful expectations, something pessimists by definition doesn't have.

[Killroy]

Disappointment requires hopeful expectations, something pessimists by definition doesn't have.

No it doesn't. I was disappointed in that Michael Bay Ninja Turtles movie and I went in expecting a stinking turd.

[Indigenous]

Long term plan for Mass Effect...

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/Owrr91N

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

They planned on ME3 being the end. The 3 endings made that very clear, as did Casey Hudson's comments. But then ok, plans change because the audience wants more. So then they decide to make another game. If that's the case then props where props are due. But even then that doesn't mean they're super happy to make another installment. It doesn't mean they have great plans for the series in mind. They could, but I'm not confident that they do. 

 

I get that the movie and gaming industry aren't the same. But when Marvel comes out and tells us their game plan for future movies, that shows me that have great confidence in their work, and have great plans for the fans and their movie universe. What I'm hoping to see over the next year or two, is for Bioware to have that same kind of mentality with Mass Effect: Andromeda. No I don't expect them to say "And then ME:A2 in 2019, ME vs DA in 2020 and ME:A3 in 2021!" But I would like to see them say something along the lines of "Hey, we're not finished yet. Just wait and see what we got in store! Better hold on to those Andromeda saves."

 

They may say this after release, but a year and a half before release? Not gonna happen. Given the situation with DAI and the DA Keep, they may not even be relying on saves anymore.

 

In any case, personally I'm not happy with the direction they've been taking all their game franchises, and will likely sit this one out, at least until I see fan reaction to the game and maybe a price drop some time after release.

 

I suggest you consider doing the same.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Long-term plan? From Bioware?

 

Plan? *chuckles* Vorcha don't plan.

[Gothfather]

I know I've been clear a few times on here that I don't exactly have the greatest expectations for Mass Effect: Andromeda. Just listen (if you haven't already) to people's complaints towards DA:I's balance between filler and story if you want to understand why, and that everything we've heard so far about Andromeda seems to point towards a similar experience.

 

That being said though, we know virtually almost nothing about the game. We haven't seen any gameplay, gotten story details, and most importantly, what Bioware's plan is with this franchise. Because let's remember, they originally said there were no plans for a sequel back when ME3 released, and now fast forward a few years later, and they're in the middle of developing one. Why is that? Is it because EA told them to since Mass Effect is both familiar and profitable, or because their choice on making another game came from a creative spark from the development team, and that they wanted to tell a brand new story set in this universe? Because those two things can make a difference in the quality of a game.

 

We still don't know if this is going to be a stand alone entry, or the first installment of a new trilogy. I'm not even confident if we'll know that when we get an info dump on the game later this year. But I gotta say, if it's a stand alone story, that doesn't exactly instill enthusiasm in me for this franchise. They've been making Mass Effect and Dragon Age games for a long time now, and we know they're in the middle of making a brand new IP. It's entirely possible that Bioware could be burnt out on Mass Effect and that most of their creative enthusiasm and energy is aimed towards creating their new IP.

 

You could tell with the way Mass Effect 3 ended that they really had no plan on continuing the series. Yet here we are. If they were to announce that ME:A is a new trilogy, or that ME:A is just the jumping off point to make way for a new series/trilogy that takes place in the Andromeda galaxy, that'd make me more confident in this franchise in the longterm. Because that would tell me that they have a lot of plans for this series, and that they're not just making this game because they had to. We probably won't know anything for sure for a very long time, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

 

 

tl;dr

 

I want to play Mass Effect: Andromeda, knowing there's a bright future ahead for this franchise.

 

The ratio of "filler" quests in DA:I to companion and story quests is almost the same as the much lauded DA:O. I have posted this numerous times the facts just don't stand up to this notion that DA:I is this vast wasted land of "filler" quests to meatier quests. It simply not true, there are roughly 5.5 (as i recall) side/filler quests in DA:O compared to ever Main quest or companion quests and in DA:I there are about 6.40 side quests to every companion/main story quest. It is less than one extra quest per "story' quests AND more importantly you need far fewer side quests to keep pace with the main quest in terms of level, as it is VERY easy to out level the main quest in DA:I.

 

The truth is that you can do far fewer side quests per story quests in DA:I than you need to do in DA:O. This narrative that DA:I is filled with filler is false. The facts do not support this position at ALL.

 

This is a quote of a post i made a while ago with all the math facts and sources comparing vanilla DA:O and DA:I.

 

 

 

The Myth of the Fetch and carry quests of DA:I is getting to the 'Zombie lie' stage to Quote Bill Maher. Doesn't matter how many times you use evidence people just keep recycling the myth.

 

Sooo.... Lets take Vanilla DA:O the much touted crown jewel of questing for the DA series and compare it to DA:I.

 

There are only 13 main quests in DA:Os of which 4 of them happen before the the tower at ostagar. If we include the tower then 5 of thirteen quests happen in the first chapter of the game if we view the origins as the prologue. That leaves 8 main quests post ostagar. You seriously telling me that these 8 quests are such a huge number compared to the side quests? DA:I has 12 main quests if we count the specialization quests as just one. (Which i think if fair as it is really all just one quest even if there are 4 listed in the journal). There isn't a large difference in the amount of main quests in both games.

 

Origins has 102 side quests and 6 companion quests. So the ratio of side to main quests+companion quests  is  5.368 side quests to every main quest and companion quests. I did not include unmarked quests in this total of which there are 3 and i did not include DLC content. This is just vanilla origins.

 

So how does inquisition stack in terms of these ratios? DA:I has 12 main quests if you count all the specialization quests as 1 which I think is fair as they are really just one quest regardless how they are organized in the journal. There are 23 inner circle quests which are companion quests.  There are 220 side quests in the journal. This gives us a ratio of 6.286. That's roughly 1 extra side quest to every companion and main quest that origins has (Its actually less than one.) That is hardly a huge difference that is being claimed AND you are able to skip more side quests in inquisition than you can in DA:O.

 

So this idea that there is a huge difference in the ratio of side quests to 'meaningful' quests in Origins compared to Inquisition is not factually based. it is cognitively biased based.  Factually speaking the ratio of quests is a difference of 1, you are able to skip more quests in Inquisition and still be properly levelled for the challenges you will face means you can do even less side quests as a ratio to main/companion quests in DA:I than you could in Origins. This is the best of both worlds. You have the content for those who enjoy it and you can skip the content for those who don't enjoy it allowing you to get more into the parts of the game you like. Now if you have some personality trait that results in you refusing to skip content that's on you not bioware or anyone else.

 

If you don't like the game that is one thing but the game isn't what many people are claiming. It doesn't have a huge vast wasteland of meaningless side quests compared to Origins, the ratios are very close. They have almost the same number of main quests, and DA:I has significantly more companion quests than Origins. (Which one would expect with twice as many companions/advisors than origins.)  The mechanics of the side quests are almost identical to both games. Now if you subjectively don't like things about Inquisition that is fine critique this, but get the facts correct.

 

Sources: journal from a complete game for DA:I and DA wiki for DA:O quests.

 

http://dragonage.wik...uests_(Origins)

http://dragonage.wik...uests_(Origins)

 

By any rational standard ME:A should be more like DA:I then not like it, because DA:I was Bioware's most successful game to date. The biggest complaint you level against it is not actually based in real facts but actually based on your cognitive biases. Now you might not like DA:I which is utterly reasonable but the quests are mechanically very similar, some are identical to DA:O and the ratio of filler quests is pretty much the same.

[Panda]

I'm not really concerned about Bioware's long-time plan of ME. If the ME:A is good game it's good game, that doesn't change if game is first of trilogy or stand-alone.

 

What I'm concerned about is how good game ME:A will be. Highlighting exploration and driving around with Mako doesn't sound good for me at all, I'm not into that in Bioware's games, I'm into characters, story, quests, roleplaying. I'm worried about focus of this game, DAI was all about exploration and it was boring compared to DAO and DA2.

 

That said, I'm expecting it to be stand-alone at the moment, not sure if Bioware will continue after it, if they do I think they will continue similarly as DA continues, with new protagonist and characters, just bringing some old one's and keeping overall lore and story intact.

[Gothfather]

I'm not really concerned about Bioware's long-time plan of ME. If the ME:A is good game it's good game, that doesn't change if game is first of trilogy or stand-alone.

 

What I'm concerned about is how good game ME:A will be. Highlighting exploration and driving around with Mako doesn't sound good for me at all, I'm not into that in Bioware's games, I'm into characters, story, quests, roleplaying. I'm worried about focus of this game, DAI was all about exploration and it was boring compared to DAO and DA2.

 

That said, I'm expecting it to be stand-alone at the moment, not sure if Bioware will continue after it, if they do I think they will continue similarly as DA continues, with new protagonist and characters, just bringing some old one's and keeping overall lore and story intact.

 

I can appreciate this position. it isn't one i share and it is also a minority view as well.

 

DA:I has been bioware most successful game in terms of fastest selling and most sales. It has won numerous awards both from the industry and gamer choice awards.

 

Stepping back from your personal dislike of the game for a moment, why would any company steer away from making more games similar to DA:I given how successful it is? I understand that it is not liked by some people but it wasn't a failure for Bioware both critically and financially. The game is their best game ever going by metrics that preclude personal taste. So why do people expect bioware to ignore their success with DA:I for future games? It doesn't make logical sense. Anyone who dislikes DA:I should expect future games by bioware to be closer to DA:I then not because of it's success.

 

Look at how many features and systems that DA and ME have in common, it is a very common thing for Bioware to take a success in one franchise's game and add these influences to the other. For better or worse expect DA:I to influence future bioware games to come.

[Panda]

I can appreciate this position. it isn't one i share and it is also a minority view as well.

 

DA:I has been bioware most successful game in terms of fastest selling and most sales. It has won numerous awards both from the industry and gamer choice awards.

 

Stepping back from your personal dislike of the game for a moment, why would any company steer away from making more games similar to DA:I given how successful it is? I understand that it is not liked by some people but it wasn't a failure for Bioware both critically and financially. The game is their best game ever going by metrics that preclude personal taste. So why do people expect bioware to ignore their success with DA:I for future games? It doesn't make logical sense. Anyone who dislikes DA:I should expect future games by bioware to be closer to DA:I then not because of it's success.

 

Look at how many features and systems that DA and ME have in common, it is a very common thing for Bioware to take a success in one franchise's game and add these influences to the other. For better or worse expect DA:I to influence future bioware games to come.

 

I actually wrote about this in another thread so I will just copy paste it:

 

"Gaming sites love DAI, but actual fans of game not so much. Players tend to give it much lower scores, for example on Metacritic critic have given it 85/100 (average) and players 5.8/10 (average), none of critics have given negative review when majority of reviews from players are negative there. There is quite bit of difference on what players like and what critics like I guess.

 

I wouldn't say DAI a last straw, not really even bad game, but it was game with many faults, some from design, some from bugs that never got and will be fixed and the game is just simply far from the overwhelming positive reviews it got from game critics"

 

It scares me that game like DAI is seen as success, because it failed in many aspects that people like Bioware's games and is not even that loved within actual gamers. It scares me cause I think ME:A might just do what DAI did without looking into anything that players found wrong with the game: big empty maps, short main story, next to no side quest, fetch quest, lack of cinematic dialogue, bugs..

[Il Divo]

 

 

I get that the movie and gaming industry aren't the same. But when Marvel comes out and tells us their game plan for future movies, that shows me that have great confidence in their work, and have great plans for the fans and their movie universe. What I'm hoping to see over the next year or two, is for Bioware to have that same kind of mentality with Mass Effect: Andromeda. No I don't expect them to say "And then ME:A2 in 2019, ME vs DA in 2020 and ME:A3 in 2021!" But I would like to see them say something along the lines of "Hey, we're not finished yet. Just wait and see what we got in store! Better hold on to those Andromeda saves."

 

 

​Personally, I'm calling shenanigans. At the sheer rate of movies released per year, Marvel is the quintessential example of milking a brand. There will never come a point where Marvel says "You know what, we've made enough movies, time to close the franchise". As long as they have ticket sales, that's not going to stop any time soon, regardless of their layout of "phase 1" "phase 2", etc.