259 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

So you arbitrarily cut bits out of the main story of DA:I because it doesn't fit your narrative and give no actual reason for this, provide no actual evidence you just make claims to try and dispute actual NUMBERS?

 

'Don't get "technical" with me! your puny facts are nothing compared to my emotional position, begone you fools who use facts and "mathematics!" They have no place in the real world. I know what I feel is truth and you are only using facts to cloud the argument and mislead.'

 

Sure whatever. Can't have actual facts used in the conversation. Can't count quests that provide an exposé of our situation, that create context because well reasons people isn't it obvious?

 

pffftt

 

Calm down there Aristotle. Holster that unmitigated wit you're brandishing before you put someone's eye out. 

[Killroy]

So you arbitrarily cut bits out of the main story of DA:I because it doesn't fit your narrative and give no actual reason for this, provide no actual evidence you just make claims to try and dispute actual NUMBERS?

If he left out major plot quests I don't remember them at all. And I played through Inquisition twice.
 

'Don't get "technical" with me! your puny facts are nothing compared to my emotional position, begone you fools who use facts and "mathematics!" They have no place in the real world. I know what I feel is truth and you are only using facts to cloud the argument and mislead.'
Sure whatever. Can't have actual facts used in the conversation. Can't count quests that provide an exposé of our situation, that create context because well reasons people isn't it obvious?
pffftt

We play games for pleasure, not the gathering of comparative data. If it feels like Inquisition was light on story compared to Origins then that's that.

[Faust1979]

None of that is worth an entire game to establish or even vital to the story of the trilogy. We already knew the Reapers wiped out the Protheans. Adding the Collectors was just an unnecessary "yes, and" that ultimately served no purpose. It has no relevance to the plots of ME1 or ME3, making it pointless to the trilogy.

 

They didn't wipe out the Protheans though

Spoiler

The Protheans's are the collectors

and that was worth building a sequel around learning the full truth

[JeffZero]

I will say this much. Inquisition feels a bit heavier story-wise if one considers the not-inconsiderable (heh) number of scenes which take place in Skyhold. It functions a bit like Mother Base in MGSV, except Skyhold is surrounded by a stronger and far better-presented narrative. Some things happen there that, were this Origins, probably would have happened elsewhere. Ample scenes occur in which the advisors, as well as Cassandra, Solas, Varric, and occasionally someone else as well, really get together and talk for a few moments. That talk would have occurred elsewhere were this Origins, I think, and some of the other narrative-driving scenes ("what to do about Cole?" "Ah, the Champion!" "Cullen's got a secret problem..." "Let's see what's up with Corypheus' right hand...") really help to bulk the game up.

 

They happen at Skyhold, but they absolutely count.

[Panda]

I like Dragon Age: Inquisition. Really, I do. I would put ME1, ME2, DA:O and KotoR above it, but I still had a good time with it.

 

That said, there were aspects of it I hated. The lack of a satisfying final battle was one of them. The balance between exploration and story was the other. I know plenty of people who enjoyed the game that didn't like the overabundance of side content and exploration. It's not that I hate DA:I, it's just that don't want ME:A to follow the same formula.

 

This is my view as well. It's not bad game compared to all games I have played, but compared to Bioware's game it's bit lackluster and has many problems that come from big changes BW made after DA2. I think lot of people (and lot of people I mean people here on the BSN, Andromeda forums) are afraid ME:A is going to follow DAI's mistakes cause GOTY and other awards can make it seems like these mistakes are positive things when it's more like that people like the game despite them not because of them.

[Killroy]

They didn't wipe out the Protheans though

Spoiler

The Protheans's are the collectors

No, the Collectors were made from Protheans. Collectors are not Protheans. Just like Husks are not humans.
 

and that was worth building a sequel around learning the full truth

Why? There was no indication of this Collector nonsense happening in ME1. The trilogy is no stronger for knowing that the Collectors were made from Prothean bodies. It adds up to nothing, even in ME2.
"OMG, the Collectors were made from Protheans! Alright, grab some guns out of that pile of goop over there..."

[JeffZero]

Hey now, those goop-guns are fabulous.

[Gothfather]

Nice. I've had that conversation before, myself. Several times. It's a pretty huge minus for me, much as I like the game overall. I like the story, too, even -- but it really missed a trick, and then just... goes out of its way to keep missing said trick.

 

 

This, however, may be misinformation. Where are you basing that the game has consistently sold? Which metrics? What we know is that it's "BioWare's best launch ever." As I've seen discussed on many sites, this could mean anything EA wishes for it to mean. In fact, it could thereotically mean precisely what you're explaining would be a bad scenario -- although I rather doubt it's so dire. I do believe Inquisition has sold decently, but no official press release has ever claimed it's the most successfully-sold title, merely that it allegedly opened the best. And even that data is frequently distorted within the marketing industry across all forms of entertainment.

 

There are possible retail-side hints that it has sold fairly well, such as the game not hitting proverbial "bargain bin" pricepoints at GameStop even ten months in. But that's about all we can look at, AFAIK, and even that could be intentionally distorted.

 

 

Well there are other indicators like the EA revenue and profit meetings that show EA had strong numbers in may of this year. With only two AAA games in the market Battlefield hardline and DA:I. So there is evidence the game is selling, it isn't proof but it is evidence. They gave a metric of 3.4 million dragons slain in DA:I which also shows people are playing the game. It is unfortunate that EA isn't releasing numbers but this isn't unusual for a large distributor. Also most of the metrics used for sales don't include digital sales. So we are seeing fewer companies give the metrics of unit sales because it can mislead investors that don't realise digital sales are not included and digital sales give more profit than hard copy sales. And teh year end for EA was march 31st and there was only a $27 million drop in the last period at a time with no major releases & 4 months after DA:I release. That isn't a large dip in revenue so the slowest period of the fiscal year the month fallowing christmas sales rush. Again not proof by evidence that suggest steady numbers. There is always a dip in sales post launch but the secondary metrics that we can gather about EA and DA:I suggest steady sales.

 

At pax, i recall a video maybe on the bioware youtube channel or the inquisition youtube channel that said that DA:I is now the highest selling game in Bioware's history which again provides evidence for the sales continuing.

 

[Edit] Nope my memory was faulty they didn't say it was bioware's highest selling game just fastest selling game.

 

 

 

EA revenue/profit report source: http://www.gamespot....t/1100-6427113/

[JeffZero]

Thanks. Yeah, I've followed most of that, and it's what I use to back up my belief that it has done decently well, at least.

I'd be interested in locating that PAX quote. I'll do some digging.

[Mathias]

I will say this much. Inquisition feels a bit heavier story-wise if one considers the not-inconsiderable (heh) number of scenes which take place in Skyhold. It functions a bit like Mother Base in MGSV, except Skyhold is surrounded by a stronger and far better-presented narrative. Some things happen there that, were this Origins, probably would have happened elsewhere. Ample scenes occur in which the advisors, as well as Cassandra, Solas, Varric, and occasionally someone else as well, really get together and talk for a few moments. That talk would have occurred elsewhere were this Origins, I think, and some of the other narrative-driving scenes ("what to do about Cole?" "Ah, the Champion!" "Cullen's got a secret problem..." "Let's see what's up with Corypheus' right hand...") really help to bulk the game up.

 

They happen at Skyhold, but they absolutely count.

 

I was actually really surprised that there wasn't a final battle in the game involving an all out assault on Skyhold. I was playing the game, thinking it was going to happen. I mean we've seen Cory lift up massive pieces of the Earth through his sheer force of will. I don't think a balls to the wall assault on Skyhold was outta the question for him.

 

Fighting Demons off the wall and courtyards? Barring the gate inside the great hall, and given dialogue options to give a speech for your party and soldiers? The possibility of having some NPCs die in the battle? Having to slip away from the battle to fight the Dragon? I mean come on this sounds awesome to me. Imagine the 2nd to last boss fight is you fighting the Dragon on top the mountainside while Skyhold burns in the background below. Imagine after killing the Dragon, Corypheus goes balls out, lifts up pieces of the Earth like we saw in the game, and then you have to fight him and some powerful minions across a series of floating islands. 

 

I mean I know to each their own, but personally that sounds like a much more exciting and engaging final battle than what we got. I swear to god I played the Temple of Mythal level, not knowing that this was the big climactic battle between the Inquisition and Cory's Army. On my 2nd playthrough I noticed it more given the way the intro of the level presented itself, what with the armies marching and everything, but still. It was basically just fighting a few baddies in a jungle. Bioware has always been great when it comes to climactic battles in their games. The Starforge, Battle of the Citadel,  Battle of Denerim, The Suicide Mission. What happened?

[Gothfather]

I will say this much. Inquisition feels a bit heavier story-wise if one considers the not-inconsiderable (heh) number of scenes which take place in Skyhold. It functions a bit like Mother Base in MGSV, except Skyhold is surrounded by a stronger and far better-presented narrative. Some things happen there that, were this Origins, probably would have happened elsewhere. Ample scenes occur in which the advisors, as well as Cassandra, Solas, Varric, and occasionally someone else as well, really get together and talk for a few moments. That talk would have occurred elsewhere were this Origins, I think, and some of the other narrative-driving scenes ("what to do about Cole?" "Ah, the Champion!" "Cullen's got a secret problem..." "Let's see what's up with Corypheus' right hand...") really help to bulk the game up.

 

They happen at Skyhold, but they absolutely count.

True but I count these as part of the 23 companion quests that are in the game that i used to bring facts to the discussion.

 

There is ample evidence supported by facts that DA:I is not light on story but if that conflicts with your opinion you can see how it simply gets dismissed. Because the facts are inconvenient.

[Gothfather]

Thanks. Yeah, I've followed most of that, and it's what I use to back up my belief that it has done decently well, at least.

I'd be interested in locating that PAX quote. I'll do some digging.

The pax quote was a mistake. I misremembered it and added an edit that i was mistaken.

 

I am watching it again now to see if it was an ancillary remark to a another topic further in but I am pretty sure that I was simply mistaken.

[Iakus]

Mass Effect 2 wasn't largely pointless it explains what really happened to the Protheans and how not all of them were wiped out and what the reapers really did to the race

So they had some Prothean husks lying around.  How did that advance the story of ME2 or ME3?  If they were instead indoctrinated Blue Suns, would that have changed the (very thin) story at all?

[Gothfather]

I was actually really surprised that there wasn't a final battle in the game involving an all out assault on Skyhold. I was playing the game, thinking it was going to happen. I mean we've seen Cory lift up massive pieces of the Earth through his sheer force of will. I don't think a balls to the wall assault on Skyhold was outta the question for him.

 

Fighting Demons off the wall and courtyards? Barring the gate inside the great hall, and given dialogue options to give a speech for your party and soldiers? The possibility of having some NPCs die in the battle? Having to slip away from the battle to fight the Dragon? I mean come on this sounds awesome to me. Imagine the 2nd to last boss fight is you fighting the Dragon on top the mountainside while Skyhold burns in the background below. Imagine after killing the Dragon, Corypheus goes balls out, lifts up pieces of the Earth like we saw in the game, and then you have to fight him and some powerful minions across a series of floating islands. 

 

I mean I know to each their own, but personally that sounds like a much more exciting and engaging final battle than what we got. I swear to god I played the Temple of Mythal level, not knowing that this was the big climactic battle between the Inquisition and Cory's Army. On my 2nd playthrough I noticed it more given the way the intro of the level presented itself, what with the armies marching and everything, but still. It was basically just fighting a few baddies in a jungle. Bioware has always been great when it comes to climactic battles in their games. The Starforge, Battle of the Citadel,  Battle of Denerim, The Suicide Mission. What happened?

 

The story made it out of the question.

 

The story states through Solas that haven resulted in you destroying his military arm and defeating the plan to convert wardens into demons defeated his ability to replace his army. Thus removing him as a military threat. He lacks a large army post haven. At least the story claims this is the case.

 

I think it is a 100% weakness of DA:I story. It was pooly written because it makes cory into an insignificant threat he becomes a punching bag post haven and that is terrible for the theme of the great evil out of the past coming to destroy the world.

[Iakus]

 

I want to play Mass Effect: Andromeda, knowing there's a bright future ahead for this franchise.

Sure there is.  Bright Red, Bright Green, or Bright Blue 

 

And if it all gets too "bright"  They'll slash and burn Andromeda like the did the Milky Way and move on  

[JeffZero]

Bioware has always been great when it comes to climactic battles in their games. The Starforge, Battle of the Citadel,  Battle of Denerim, The Suicide Mission. What happened?

 

 

Resource mismanagement, at a guess. Developing the various regions -- and more pivotally, building Frostbite to support future BioWare titles -- ate into time and money quite a bit, I'd bet. I think it's pretty clear the third act of Inquisition reads more than a bit like a who's-who on "oh crap, we're at the end, aren't we?" It's the biggest problem for me, because for me, climax and denouement are the coolest slices of storytelling. The epilogue is there, but it doesn't feel earned. Corypheus was more of a maimed pup than an ancient Tevinter Magister by then, and What Pride Had Wrought has a fair bit to do with that. Good mission on its own terms; bad mission to claim "here's the big battle" with.

 

For what it's worth, Inquisition has a few instances of skirmishes large enough to be considered battles, at least. Haven's an obvious pick, as well as the assault on Adamant Fortress. If you side with the templars, their mission feels like a somewhat lesser example of the other three, too. Which is fine, thematically, since it's earlier in the story. I'm as disappointed in the lack of relatively epic scope with the endgame as anyone, but it helps for me to consider that the Inquisition did at least have its fair share of scuffles. I have to live on the hope that the hypothetical DA4 will learn from this blunder and treat me to another eye-candy splurge at the final push, and in the meantime, delight in Trespasser for being a worthier finish.

 

The pax quote was a mistake. I misremembered it and added an edit that i was mistaken.

 

I am watching it again now to see if it was an ancillary remark to a another topic further in but I am pretty sure that I was simply mistaken.

 

Ah, OK. Cheers.

[Sidney]

Not all filler is created equally. I enjoyed the sidequests in Origins. I was bored to death with the "sidequests" in Inquisition. The sidequests in Origins feel like added flavor and excitement. The sidequests in Inquisition feel like last minute additions to fill giant, lifeless maps.

Firing people, delivering death notices, assembling a sword, saving random refugees, finding poison, finding garnets, finding scrolls, finding bottles, and so forth were trash filler for the sake of trash filler just as much as DAI's trash filler.

[Killroy]

Firing people, delivering death notices, assembling a sword, saving random refugees, finding poison, finding garnets, finding scrolls, finding bottles, and so forth were trash filler for the sake of trash filler just as much as DAI's trash filler.

 

Maybe, but Origin's filler is a hell of a lot less boring than Inquisition's IMO.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Firing people, delivering death notices, assembling a sword, saving random refugees, finding poison, finding garnets, finding scrolls, finding bottles, and so forth were trash filler for the sake of trash filler just as much as DAI's trash filler.

 

 

Maybe, but Origin's filler is a hell of a lot less boring than Inquisition's IMO.

 

Right. At least in Origins we had some cutscenes and dialog that filled in some lore for many of them. The 'find a scroll' one is a good example actually. You talk to the curator in Denerim, she tells you how hard it is to find actual artifacts of Andraste. You go to Haven, find the scroll, return to Denerim and she examines it, gushes about how awesome it is etc.

 

Even the straight hand-in filler was more interesting in that it set the mood of what was going on around you. Sure you collect 10 lyrium potions, but do you hand them in to the mages templar friend or turn them over to the templars? When you talk to the mage apprentices each one gives some dialog that indicates what sort of apprentice they were. You have the option of having one of your party members tell the widow about her husband, and each companion has a different take on how to handle it. Even quests that were straight hand ins with no dialog turned out to have some effect, maybe in the landsmeet. The Crows assassin quest is an example of this.

 

In Da2 you find some pantaloons, go to the person marked on your map, right click and hear Hawke verbally throw it in the NPC's face.

 

In DAI you find a note, go to a specific location, find another note, or maybe a chest or dead body, and done. If you're lucky there will be some flavour text, but don't hold your breath. Often it's just a quest complete message.

 

At least DAI was a slight improvement over DA2.

 

I feel a little bad picking on DA2 at this point. It's like the runt of the litter, always picked on, never given enough food or attention. heh.

[Mathias]

Resource mismanagement, at a guess. Developing the various regions -- and more pivotally, building Frostbite to support future BioWare titles -- ate into time and money quite a bit, I'd bet. I think it's pretty clear the third act of Inquisition reads more than a bit like a who's-who on "oh crap, we're at the end, aren't we?" It's the biggest problem for me, because for me, climax and denouement are the coolest slices of storytelling. The epilogue is there, but it doesn't feel earned. Corypheus was more of a maimed pup than an ancient Tevinter Magister by then, and What Pride Had Wrought has a fair bit to do with that. Good mission on its own terms; bad mission to claim "here's the big battle" with.

 

 

You're probably right on the nose with the resource management part. Hopefully they coordinate this better with future titles, because man, it's been a while since we had that awesome climactic battle in a Bioware game. I think the Earth battle is the worst example of this, they really dropped the ball with that one. 

 

Also I'll just say it, the actual boss fight against Corypheus was pathetic. The guy was a total pushover. In my way of thinking, the final boss fight in any RPG should be one of the most, if not the most difficult fight in the entire game. I think the hardest fight I had in that game on Nightmare was the boss at the end of the Templar Fortress. I loved the music Doom Upon the World though. 

[Mathias]

Sure there is.  Bright Red, Bright Green, or Bright Blue 

 

And if it all gets too "bright"  They'll slash and burn Andromeda like the did the Milky Way and move on  

 

Iakus why must you trigger horrible memories lol.

[dreamgazer]

Waaah! Color swaps! Waaaaaaaah!

[dreamgazer]

Firing people, delivering death notices, assembling a sword, saving random refugees, finding poison, finding garnets, finding scrolls, finding bottles, and so forth were trash filler for the sake of trash filler just as much as DAI's trash filler.

Ding, ding, ding.

You won't be cutting through this fanbase's bias and hypocrisy anytime soon, though.

[Iakus]

Iakus why must you trigger horrible memories lol.

Because those who forget history somethingsomething...

[Il Divo]

Ding, ding, ding.

You won't be cutting through this fanbase's bias and hypocrisy anytime soon, though.

 

Maybe conceptually. DA:O definitely had its share of duds. On the other hand, DA:O also struck a much better balance in terms of how much of that filler it was throwing at you at a time. When I was locating the sites of magic power (or whatever the hell those were), I could do it while attempting to help the Elves deal with the Werewolf problem, along with other side quests, etc.

​

A lot of that filler was integrated into main quest areas. In contrast, much as DA:I is enjoyable, you essentially have these massive areas which only serve to collect Power as  a resource. It's actually pretty similar to what ME1 did in comparison to KotOR and Jade Empire. Mass Effect kept the same style of side quests, but added an extra layer of unknown planets, which just became a resource sink to reach similar content.

 

Content density becomes a huge factor in that regard.