Its about adding meaningful content not just content for the sake of having more content like DAI.
Look at The Elder Scrolls games. Many of the side quest are just as interesting if not better than the main story like the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild quest line in Oblivion or the Cerberus quest line in ME1 and the Bloody Baron quest line in TW3. DAI lacked such side quest.
How many rifts did you close? Did you convert the rift cult? Did you build watchtowers? Did you end the local conflict between the templars and mages? Did you kill the dragon? Did you establish all the camps? Did you find the missing scout?
And I haven't even touched Redcliffe yet.
Sounds more like online achievements than something developers would include in their save import mechanic 
What important thing does it say about my world state whether I closed x or y rifts or whether I established p or q camps? The only thing that has some minute meaning is the fate of the rift cult because there's at least some potential of future narrative significance.
The Hinterlands basically function the same as Lothering did in DAO: it's a starting area where you can build some gold and XP before venturing into other more dangerous areas. In this case, though, you also have to build up Power in order to open up the main questline.
It's incredible that anybody likes Inquisition.
Fixed.
The Hinterlands basically function the same as Lothering did in DAO: it's a starting area where you can build some gold and XP before venturing into other more dangerous areas. In this case, though, you also have to build up Power in order to open up the main questline.
And since all maps are Hinterlands or worse (Exalted Plains and Hissing Wastes for instance) we are talking about a game with 12 Lotherings on steroids. Edit: At least Lothering was small objective and had companions with meaningful interactions and a lot of great banter in such a small space so no, not a chance maps in Inquisition come even close to Lothering, which is the worse DAO map.
Fixed.
Well, no. Each of the other regions has a main story linked to them. In the Fallow Mire, you're there strictly to free the Inquisition soliders taken captive by the Avvar. In the Exalted Plains, for instance, you're there to halt the waves of undead and demons that threaten to take over the area, which was orchestrated by the Freemen of the Dales. As you free Gaspard's camps and close rifts, the number of undead and demons diminish, and eventually you reach a point where they disappear altogether.
The only other area I would say is similar to the Hinterlands is the Storm Coast, as there's no overarching narrative linked to that area. Rather, you return to it multiple times over the course of the game to take care of new threats that pop up. (First it's the Blades of Hessarian, then it's darkspawn, then red templars and finally the high dragon.)
We don't know what relevance it might have, because we don't have perfect knowledge of the game world.Sounds more like online achievements than something developers would include in their save import mechanic
What important thing does it say about my world state whether I closed x or y rifts or whether I established p or q camps? The only thing that has some minute meaning is the fate of the rift cult because there's at least some potential of future narrative significance.
I don't usually bother establishing feelings.Well perhaps that's the difference, I only exist in fantasy worlds, so they are the only places where I experience feelings.
Ever seen Lost?
The Hinterlands is the Island...
But it wasn't broken. Don't fix what isn't broken.
Yeah, someone should have told it to devs about DAO. They didn't understand that so I'm taking the freedom to be as stupid as they were =(
Its about adding meaningful content not just content for the sake of having more content like DAI.
Look at The Elder Scrolls games. Many of the side quest are just as interesting if not better than the main story like the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild quest line in Oblivion or the Cerberus quest line in ME1 and the Bloody Baron quest line in TW3. DAI lacked such side quest.
Jazz with the usual BS, like Bloody baron was a side-quest. Sure.
Using the keep as a formatting example:
While DAO and DA2 have many less quests recorded in their sections, most of them have three or more outcome options, with a good degree of variety in those options. Not to say they are all perfect options, but at least there is variation.
In DAI if you list out most of the quests in the keep, it will look like Descent: did you do X quest or not? That's it, no different paths of completing the quest, no variety.
Of course they can work more on the choices and cinematics but in these discussions I feel there are a lot of apples vs oranges comparisons. How deep is the Korcari wilds and Lothering really? In Lothering you can skip a lot but the Korcari wilds is more or less the same fights every time. In the Hinterlands they give us the power of choice.
We don't know what relevance it might have, because we don't have perfect knowledge of the game world.
Not closing rifts might harm the future economy, or might reduce the influence of the Inquisition over future events. Not establishing camps might give greater control over those areas to other factions.
We don't know. So why jump to conclusions?
It's not jumping to conclusions any more than thinking that the amount of ore mined and elfroots harvested won't have narrative importance down the road. I mean, if Bioware so chooses, sure, they can deem anything to be important enough for future development. Doesn't change the fact that we're talking about some arbitrary values of X and Y. I for one don't find it satisfying.
I don't presume to talk about anyone's preferences but my own, but I personally much prefer quests that don't only let me choose between doing or not doing them; I'd rather see those that allow me to resolve them in multiple ways. Not merely "engage or not engage" but more importantly "how to engage". To me at least, that's much more fulfilling, both from roleplaying and world state perspectives.
It's not jumping to conclusions any more than thinking that the amount of ore mined and elfroots harvested will have narrative importance down the road. I mean, if Bioware so chooses, sure, they can deem anything to be important enough for future development. Doesn't change the fact that we're talking about some arbitrary values of X and Y. I for one don't find it satisfying.
I don't presume to talk about anyone's preferences but my own, but I personally much prefer quests that don't only let me choose between doing or not doing them; I'd rather see those that allow me to resolve them in multiple ways. Not merely "engage or not engage" but more importantly "how to engage". To me at least, that's much more fulfilling, both from roleplaying and world state perspectives.
Even some simple quests have such options. Leading the ram back to the farm quest can be simply performed, or some may choose to kill it, in which case they may be surprised. While some quests are simple ones, there are those that offer variance.
Sure, some do. Vast majority, however, do not.
Sure, some do. Vast majority, however, do not.
No argument there, but that's not the point I was refuting.I don't presume to talk about anyone's preferences but my own, but I personally much prefer quests that don't only let me choose between doing or not doing them; I'd rather see those that allow me to resolve them in multiple ways. Not merely "engage or not engage" but more importantly "how to engage". To me at least, that's much more fulfilling, both from roleplaying and world state perspectives.
Of course they can work more on the choices and cinematics but in these discussions I feel there are a lot of apples vs oranges comparisons. How deep is the Korcari wilds and Lothering really? In Lothering you can skip a lot but the Korcari wilds is more or less the same fights every time. In the Hinterlands they give us the power of choice.
Outside of the main story quests, I can't think of any choices in any of the DAI quests (ignoring results of the War Table, as that's a different beast).
When dealing with the rogue mages and templars in the Hinterlands, why not have the option to side with one over the other, with a promise of being taken to the larger faction for an introduction (I know both groups are offshoots and gone rogue, so I'm assuming greater changes than just this)? Or find some method of getting rid of the groups without killing them? Maybe the son who makes the breath potion is part of the rebel mages, so when you encounter him, you convince him to abandon the group and go back home rather than continue fighting. And have other similar backgrounds to them, so they're characters rather than Enemy #406.
I wonder if PC players can use some kind of cheat to get power instantly without farming it?
Yeah, with cheat engine. Since I got a good table for that I only get the horse, kill the dragon and then never go back to the Hinterlands.
God bless PC gaming.
Yeah, with cheat engine. Since I got a good table for that I only get the horse, kill the dragon and then never go back to the Hinterlands.
God bless PC gaming.
Sometimes I cheat a character and finish the game in one afternoon (including companion quests) just to test things like a particular class, or a different outcome combination from the main quests.
Outside of the main story quests, I can't think of any choices in any of the DAI quests (ignoring results of the War Table, as that's a different beast).
When dealing with the rogue mages and templars in the Hinterlands, why not have the option to side with one over the other, with a promise of being taken to the larger faction for an introduction (I know both groups are offshoots and gone rogue, so I'm assuming greater changes than just this)? Or find some method of getting rid of the groups without killing them? Maybe the son who makes the breath potion is part of the rebel mages, so when you encounter him, you convince him to abandon the group and go back home rather than continue fighting. And have other similar backgrounds to them, so they're characters rather than Enemy #406.
Well I can think of numerous choices outside of main quests. They are not carbon copy choices of other games true. It is after all a new game. However I wouldn't mind more fleshed out quests but we cannot expect every encounter to be special and I can't think of another game I have played that does not have numerous enemy#406.
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