142 réponses à ce sujet

[N172]

And even if there is no colony, there a plenty of possible reasons for it, like lack of valuable ressources.
Just because a planet can support life does not mean people want to spend their lives there.
In fact the asari have chosen Lessus for the AY-monastery because the planet is not interesting to visit, same goes for several bases of criminals in ME, there are plenty of habitable planets without colonies.

[themikefest]

How do you know it's not a colony world - somebody must have been there to get the Normandy patched up.

If the players ems is above 2600, the Normandy leaves with no problem. If its below 2600, the Normandy is stuck on the unknown planet being repaired. There's no way to know how long its stuck on that planet

[yolobastien6412]

There's this video by GamerMD83 about the future of ME after ME3. She did this before the title of the next mass effect was announced (I think) and as a result still thought it would be in the same galaxy. I saw this a while back, but if I remember correctly she shows us a possible way the galaxy would end up without making anything canon. 

Correction, she knew about Andromeda, but just believed it would be set after ME3.

Here is said video:

[AlanC9]

Nothing states yeah or nay to using the Relay.  But, consider this, if the Normandy is not using the Relay, then the world (unknown habitable garden world) is within easy normal FTL range of Earth.  Not feasible as any planet like that near earth would have been colonized at the start.  Man, the human race that is, spreads like a disease and that planet would have been the first to be colonized since exploration is in our nature.
No, the planet lies outside the normal range of FTL so therefore, a Relay had to have been used to get that far from Earth.  At least, that is my view and, alas, that view will not change.

You really shouldn't advertise that you're unwilling to listen to rational argument, you know.

Using a relay to get there doesn't actually solve your supposed problem -- humans could use relays, and opened any they could get their hands on before the First Contact War, so any garden planet within one relay jump of Sol would certainly be colonized, just as a world within reasonable standard FTL range would be colonized. In any event, the Charon relay, as a secondary, can't take you very far from Sol. The Arcturus primaries could take a ship further, but primaries have only one destination, and, again, a garden world one transit from the Alliance capital would certainly be colonized. You'd have to execute several relay jumps to get anyplace that wouldn't be firmly within Alliance control.

Fortunately, there's no real problem here. Chealec's right; that world is certainly colonized.

[Calinstel]

You really shouldn't advertise that you're unwilling to listen to rational argument, you know.

Using a relay to get there doesn't actually solve your supposed problem -- humans could use relays, and opened any they could get their hands on before the First Contact War, so any garden planet within one relay jump of Sol would certainly be colonized, just as a world within reasonable standard FTL range would be colonized. In any event, the Charon relay, as a secondary, can't take you very far from Sol. The Arcturus primaries could take a ship further, but primaries have only one destination, and, again, a garden world one transit from the Alliance capital would certainly be colonized. You'd have to execute several relay jumps to get anyplace that wouldn't be firmly within Alliance control.

Fortunately, there's no real problem here. Chealec's right; that world is certainly colonized.

Sorry, there is no evidence, other than head canon, to indicate the world the Normandy crashed on was inhabited by any known race.

 

If you recall the original ending, pre EC, it was meant to indicate a 'Garden of Eden' ending for the survivors.

And why not state, beyond any doubt, my views?  As my original post was only to provide information to others looking for a way to keep the MW galaxy relevant within the ME universe.  It was not to open a debate on my views.  You, and many others have you own views/ideas/feelings and, being respectful to others, I do not plan or even desire, to alter those views. 

 

This is what the original endings were supposed to do.  Allow the players to fill in the (massive, hole ridden) blanks to complete the game.  I just created it in my way, as you and all others have created it in their own ways.  Unless it was shown in game or specified by BW, any and all thoughts about the ending are peoples own head canons.  That is all it can ever be. 

 

No offense was meant to others, it's just how I see it.

 

You have a great day and remember, always have fun.

Calinstel

[AlanC9]

Sorry, there is no evidence, other than head canon, to indicate the world the Normandy crashed on was inhabited by any known race.

You literally just made the case that the planet had to have been inhabited, unless we add space magic to get Normandy someplace other than where it could have gone by the rules of MEU space travel. You are certainly free to headcanon more space magic if you want the Normandy to be somewhere else, but I think the game already has plenty of space magic without adding more of it.
 

If you recall the original ending, pre EC, it was meant to indicate a 'Garden of Eden' ending for the survivors.

Sure. That doesn't require that the crew be the only people in the garden. Let alone the question of whether the SR-2 has anything like a viable breeding population.

And why not state, beyond any doubt, my views?

Who said you shouldn't do that? It's saying that your views won't change that I was commenting on. All views should be subject to change if evidence warrants it.

  As my original post was only to provide information to others looking for a way to keep the MW galaxy relevant within the ME universe.  It was not to open a debate on my views.  You, and many others have you own views/ideas/feelings and, being respectful to others, I do not plan or even desire, to alter those views. 

If you don't want your views debated, posting them on this board is not a rational thing to do.
 

This is what the original endings were supposed to do.  Allow the players to fill in the (massive, hole ridden) blanks to complete the game.  I just created it in my way, as you and all others have created it in their own ways.  Unless it was shown in game or specified by BW, any and all thoughts about the ending are peoples own head canons.  That is all it can ever be. 
 
No offense was meant to others, it's just how I see it.l

I'm just pointing out that your interpretation doesn't match the known facts of the universe without making stuff up. Whether this makes it a bad interpretation or not depends on how you score these things. I personally don't think that making up stuff is a sound interpretive technique, but that's just me.

[Calinstel]

I am not as well versed in forum quoting so I shall just put it this way.

1.  I literally made an argument saying "It is unknown" if the planet was inhabited or not.  That is all.

 

2.  I did not state any population.  Just the impression the game left on me and the one I chose to accept.

 

3.  True, my views could change, but the intent of my original post was to offer an example of how to continue in the MW, nothing more.  My head canon is over 3 years old and I've not seen a single argument to sway that view.  So, set in stone, is a good explanation of my views.  And, judging from other comments tonight, other people have their head canons set as well.  2 people arguing over two unchangeable ideas is a recipe for anger, something I do not care to be involved with.

 

4.  I offered an opinion on the MW and, as with any opinion, there are many out there.  I accept others opinions but accepting theirs in no way invalidates mine.  No reason to argue over something that has no definitive answer.  Only the BW devs have all the answers and they are leaving it open to debate.

 

5.  My interpretation matches all known facts about the game .  Nothing travels faster than light but every SciFi space story/game has to have a means to travel between stars at great speed.  This is one of the basics for SciFi.   Be it Warp Drive/Hyperdrive/Gravity Drive or Mass Effect Fields, its only purpose is to allow space travel.  Everything else added to the story/game should be built upon that science which mass effect does (pretty much at least)

My interpretation is based on the original endings and as I stated before, the wave propagates at two speeds.  FLT when passing through the Relays and just at Light speed when the Relay itself sends the wave.

If the wave travels faster than light in normal space then that is your space magic.  I did not add any to what was shown, I put the wave back into known limits of science.  Again, Mass Effect was 'supposed' to be Science Fiction.  BW murdered it and turned it almost to straight Science Fantasy at the end.  I prefer my Fiction to stay fiction and leave Space Magic Fantasy waves out of the picture. 

[Chealec]

Sorry, there is no evidence, other than head canon, to indicate the world the Normandy crashed on was inhabited by any known race.

 
You see the Normandy crashed on the planet, damaged and smoking.
 
You see the Normandy take off from the planet (if your EMS > 2600 - thanks @themikefest).
 
 
If the planet isn't inhabited how else was the most advanced frigate in the entire Alliance fleet repaired?
 
If it is inhabited, with mineral processing and manufacturing plants, it's close enough to Earth that it must have been a human colony world... possibly terraformed, the vegetation certainly looked as if it could have been terrestrial in origin.
 
Granted the evidence is circumstantial but the clues are there.

 

BW murdered it and turned it almost to straight Science Fantasy at the end. I prefer my Fiction to stay fiction and leave Space Magic Fantasy waves out of the picture.

You know 'fiction' just means 'not real' right?

[Calinstel]

 
You see the Normandy crashed on the planet, damaged and smoking.
 
You see the Normandy take off from the planet (if your EMS > 2600 - thanks @themikefest).
 
 
If the planet isn't inhabited how else was the most advanced frigate in the entire Alliance fleet repaired?
 
If it is inhabited, with mineral processing and manufacturing plants, it's close enough to Earth that it must have been a human colony world... possibly terraformed, the vegetation certainly looked as if it could have been terrestrial in origin.
 
Granted the evidence is circumstantial but the clues are there.

 

You know 'fiction' just means 'not real' right?

The Normandy was repaired in the same way it was repaired at the end of ME2.  Space Magic!  If you recall, that crash on the station damaged the craft.  Heck, the SR2s forward port thruster (think it was port) was almost broken off.  Yet, 2 seconds later, fully repaired.  It was all done with the plot, nothing more.  No time was shown in how long it took to repair.    Believe what you will but, as you said, any evidence is circumstantial and not conclusive.

 

Sorry for my next reasoning as I'm not trying to prove anything other than that I'm old but...

 

Science Fiction, in earlier times was known as the extrapolation of known sciences.  Fantasy was anything outside that boundary.  As stated before, even Science Fiction needs a little fantasy for space drives but usually tries to contain it to that basic idea.  Warp/Hyperspace/Eezo, are the fantasy and ME stuck pretty much to it so it still falls in the Science Fiction realm. 

The weapons were based on real science.  In ME1 at least, the airless sections were based on real science (fully enclosed suits).  The Relays, though relying on space magic was still held within the bounds of Science Fiction in that it stuck to how the Fantastical Eezo worked.

Fantasy (space magic) in the form of waves traveling faster than light, synthesis with its completely rewriting all DNA through the entire galaxy as it moves through it at even the speed of light are just two examples of this style of writing.

 

That is why you have the labels Science Fiction and Science Fantasy.  To differentiate between the two styles.  Only almost believable and one almost purely unbelievable.  I love both types of stories but I prefer my Fiction to attempt to remain possible, given enough time for man to discover it.

 

As I understand the more modern definition, the two genres are intermixed.  I find this disappointing for I truly love good Science Fiction.  The current writing styles can have many crossings making suspension of disbelief difficult to maintain.  Now, I suppose, anything can be called SciFi as writers mix Fiction and Fantasy.  And this is most likely where my age hurts me most.  Inflexible in my views towards the two styles.  To this day, I'll still take a Clarke or Asimov novel (even if I've read it countless times before) over almost all of the newer generations offerings. 

 

And, this thread is way off topic so I shall respond no further to it.  Sorry to all for messing up the thread.

Calinstel

[themikefest]

The Normandy was repaired in the same way it was repaired at the end of ME2.  Space Magic!

The Normandy was never repaired in ME3. As I posted above. If ems is above 2600, the Normandy flies off the unknown planet without any problem. It makes me wonder what the purpose of having the Normandy on that planet. If ems is below 2600, the Normandy is stuck on that planet being repaired. No idea how long it will take. I believe they won't get it repaired since it shows the thrusters being ripped from the ship and I doubt they can rebuild those without outside help. Crewmembers can be seen walking on top of the ship

[AlanC9]

The Normandy was never repaired in ME3. As I posted above. If ems is above 2600, the Normandy flies off the unknown planet without any problem. It makes me wonder what the purpose of having the Normandy on that planet.

The ship has to have been repaired somewhat to make that work, unless you figure it was fully functional even after the crash, let alone before. As for the purpose, surely that was just to keep the symbolism of the final scene. (Whether that was a sensible purpose is another question

If ems is below 2600, the Normandy is stuck on that planet being repaired. No idea how long it will take. I believe they won't get it repaired since it shows the thrusters being ripped from the ship and I doubt they can rebuild those without outside help. Crewmembers can be seen walking on top of the ship

Assuming that they don't have outside help. That equipment around the ship doesn't look like they had it stored in the hangar deck.

[LightningSamus]

No.

[themikefest]

The ship has to have been repaired somewhat to make that work, unless you figure it was fully functional even after the crash, let alone before. As for the purpose, surely that was just to keep the symbolism of the final scene. (Whether that was a sensible purpose is another question

Not really. I'm sure they walked around the ship looking for any damage and concluded there wasn't enough to worry about and left the planet
 

Assuming that they don't have outside help. That equipment around the ship doesn't look like they had it stored in the hangar deck.

Doesn't matter if they have outside help. They're stuck on the planet for quite a while. And if there is a colony on that planet, it could be located on the other side making that much more time the Normandy stays on that planet.  They can repair what they can, but without any way to rebuild those thrusters, the Normandy is stuck for an extended period of time.

[Chealec]

...

 

That is why you have the labels Science Fiction and Science Fantasy.  To differentiate between the two styles.  Only almost believable and one almost purely unbelievable.  I love both types of stories but I prefer my Fiction to attempt to remain possible, given enough time for man to discover it.

 

...

 

tbh I've never heard of science fantasy - sounds like an oxymoron to me. Generally book shops just lump all Sci-Fi and Fantasy together though - probably to make room for celebretard biography #178827 :|

 

To my mind:

 

Sci-Fi is everything from Kim Stanley Robinson to Frank Herbert or William Gibson - anything where the fiction is based loosely on scientific possibilities (with a bit of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff thrown in to gloss over the impossibilities), generally in the future, often with spaceships.

 

Fantasy is Tolkien to Raymond E. Fiest and Robin Hobb or even Mary Gentle's "Grunts" - often, but not always involves a pseudo-medieval setting, elves, dwarves, orcs, dragons and so on and glosses over the impossibilities with magic.

 

 

Mass Effect vs Dragon Age if you like... however, as Arthur C Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

 

 

... anyway, this really is getting off topic now

[AlanC9]

I am not as well versed in forum quoting so I shall just put it this way.

Well, a straight-up quote is just a matter of hitting the button. For fancier stuff like what I'm doing here, just switch to unformatted view and the mechanics of it will be completely obvious; the quoted material is simply plain text wrapped in quote tags, which can be typed in by hand. The only hard part is making sure that the tags you add are paired correctly , but that's why we have a preview.

1.  I literally made an argument saying "It is unknown" if the planet was inhabited or not.  That is all.
 
2.  I did not state any population.  Just the impression the game left on me and the one I chose to accept.

Yep. And I'm just saying that's an unworkable interpretation, unless you add space magic to put Normandy someplace where there weren't any people. Your first impression wasn't sensible, and you shouldn't hang on to it. Unless, again, you like that first impression enough for it to be worth adding space magic to keep it alive. (I've got an implicit assumption here that adding more space magic is a cost; this may not be true for you.)
 

3.  True, my views could change, but the intent of my original post was to offer an example of how to continue in the MW, nothing more.  My head canon is over 3 years old and I've not seen a single argument to sway that view.  So, set in stone, is a good explanation of my views.  And, judging from other comments tonight, other people have their head canons set as well.  2 people arguing over two unchangeable ideas is a recipe for anger, something I do not care to be involved with.

This sort of thing doesn't get me angry; amused, sometimes, with maybe a gloss of contempt if someone's making a really stupid argument. Usually it's just fun. But YMMV. And yeah, this is a side-topic from how Bio might have continued in the MW, since the Normandy's fate isn't all that relevant to that. But if you don't want to get involved in a side-topic, posting about the side-topic is a poor way to not be involved in the discussion of said side-topic.

5.  My interpretation matches all known facts about the game .  Nothing travels faster than light but every SciFi space story/game has to have a means to travel between stars at great speed.  This is one of the basics for SciFi.   Be it Warp Drive/Hyperdrive/Gravity Drive or Mass Effect Fields, its only purpose is to allow space travel.  Everything else added to the story/game should be built upon that science which mass effect does (pretty much at least)

No, your theory does not match the known facts. As I just pointed out, you're either getting details of relay travel wrong, or presuming that Normandy made many relay jumps before getting caught by the wave. I suppose you could go with the latter, but this is contradicted by Hackett's instructions to the fleet upon departure, so now you've got to come up with a reason for Joker to disobey those orders and make multiple relay jumps to go... where? What's he trying to do?

This side-topic has nothing much to do with the speed the wave travels when expanding from the relays, though if we accept your theory that it's only moving at lightspeed then Normandy must have been in relay transit when caught by the wave. (I think the VFX implies that anyway, so I'm fine with that assumption.)

[AlanC9]

Not really. I'm sure they walked around the ship looking for any damage and concluded there wasn't enough to worry about and left the planet

Note that there are hull breaches visible on the crashed Normandy that are not present when it takes off. It's either repairs or a cutscene mistake.

Why would an undamaged ship have made a crash landing, anyway?

Doesn't matter if they have outside help. They're stuck on the planet for quite a while. And if there is a colony on that planet, it could be located on the other side making that much more time the Normandy stays on that planet.  They can repair what they can, but without any way to rebuild those thrusters, the Normandy is stuck for an extended period of time.

Oh, sure. They'll be down for some time.

[johnj1979]

The 2 ending system was hurting Bioware as early as ME2. A quick look at the handling of the Council in ME2 and the Collector Base/companions in ME3 shows how quick they are to handwave everything away.

 

Mass Effect 1 ending was Doing something to help yourself or Doing something to help others

 

Mass Effect 2 ending were for me Destroy the Collectors Base and have Justice for the Murdered or Used the Collector Base that has the Blood people all over it.

 

It worked throughout the Bioware Games.

 

Good and Evil choices, both Dragon Age and Mass Effect did this well in their games. Mass Effect 3 gives you 3 things that the Reapers are trying to do the galaxy and the 4th ending is continue the war. What happened to Destroy Reaper and Save the Galaxy or Don't Destroy the Reaper and Joining them.

 

For me Bioware has had morals  in their games, the right vs wrong, good vs evil, light vs dark and so on

 

And then there's the question how do they incorporate genocide, slavery, continuing a war and changing the very life itself into a new story.

[themikefest]

Note that there are hull breaches visible on the crashed Normandy that are not present when it takes off. It's either repairs or a cutscene mistake.

There is a bit a damage near the c**kpit area. It also doesn't look like hull breaches. but more of the outer shell damaged not causing any kind of breach. When the Normandy leaves, the scene doesn't show enough of that spot to tell.
 

Why would an undamaged ship have made a crash landing, anyway?

Why would the Normandy not be in pieces after its thrusters are ripped from the ship?

[johnj1979]

The games share the same universe, ME:A isn't an AU.

 

But will it or is ME:A going to be like Lost in Space, Star Trek: Voyager or Stargate: Universe.

 

or 

 

Is it simpler to say "Mass Effect 3 was a bad idea, lets stop using that universe and start anew universe" a reboot of the series 

[Killroy]

But will it or is ME:A going to be like Lost in Space, Star Trek: Voyager or Stargate: Universe.

 

or 

 

Is it simpler to say "Mass Effect 3 was a bad idea, lets stop using that universe and start anew universe" a reboot of the series 

 

Voyager was set in the furthest reaches of the Milky Way galaxy. It wasn't just the same universe, it was the same galaxy.

[Navasha]

Here is the only solution I see to "fix" the Milky Way galaxy for future use. 

 

First... we need the Andromeda series or trilogy of games so that there is sufficient amount of time passing, both in game and in real life.  

Second...  There needs to be an event in the Milky Way that nullifies the various effects of the endings of ME3.   Maybe the Krogan really do breed and wipe out all the other races, before succumbing to their own end.    Maybe the geth do evolve exponentially and wipe out all organic life before leaving the galaxy.   etc..

 

Then and only then can we return and start anew.

[Ahglock]

Mass Effect 1 ending was Doing something to help yourself or Doing something to help others

 

Mass Effect 2 ending were for me Destroy the Collectors Base and have Justice for the Murdered or Used the Collector Base that has the Blood people all over it.

 

It worked throughout the Bioware Games.

 

Good and Evil choices, both Dragon Age and Mass Effect did this well in their games. Mass Effect 3 gives you 3 things that the Reapers are trying to do the galaxy and the 4th ending is continue the war. What happened to Destroy Reaper and Save the Galaxy or Don't Destroy the Reaper and Joining them.

 

For me Bioware has had morals  in their games, the right vs wrong, good vs evil, light vs dark and so on

 

And then there's the question how do they incorporate genocide, slavery, continuing a war and changing the very life itself into a new story.

 

 

Not to pick a nit, but ME1 had 3 choices though 2 mechanically were the same.

 

1.  Save the council(you I guess are labeling that do something to help others) I see it as risk it all to save a few.

2.  Let them Burn.  Muhahah renegade with racist stylings.

3.  Focus on sovereign: sacrifice the few to increase your odds to save the rest.

 

The result when brought into ME2 as far as I can tell 2 and 3 because the same, which is somewhat logical but you'd think you would release your communication logs if it showed you not to be a racist ass hat and were just trying to stop the threat.  I don't know if it was a bug, or something but I also had a weird part where even though end of ME1 we were going to have a multi-racial council when I got to ME2 it was a all human council. 

[AlanC9]

There is a bit a damage near the c**kpit area. It also doesn't look like hull breaches. but more of the outer shell damaged not causing any kind of breach. When the Normandy leaves, the scene doesn't show enough of that spot to tell.

I don't check you on this. The damage behind the door, in particular, would be visible in the final shot. (Of course, the real reason for this could simply be that there's a crashed model and a flying model, and they used the undamaged flying model for the flying cutscene, it someone wants to posit that this is yet another instance of bad cutscene work)

I don't see why you're attached to the idea that the ship was undamaged in the first place, incidentally. What's the difference if the crew had to make repairs or not?

[themikefest]

I don't check you on this. The damage behind the door, in particular, would be visible in the final shot.

Can you point to the damage you're talking about behind the door and show that same spot as the Normandy leaves?
 

I don't see why you're attached to the idea that the ship was undamaged in the first place, incidentally.

How does making an observation make me attached to the idea? The same can be said for you since you seem to be attached to the idea the ship was repaired before leaving
 

What's the difference if the crew had to make repairs or not?

Is there suppose to be a difference? I just made an observation

[o Ventus]

tbh I've never heard of science fantasy - sounds like an oxymoron to me. 

 

 

If you've ever seen Star Wars, Dragon Ball Z (specifically Z) or Krull, you've seen science fantasy films. If you've ever played Infinity Blade (any of the 3 games), Bioshock Infinite, or Destiny, you've played science fantasy games. If you've read any standard American comic book published by DC or Marvel in the last 30-or-so years, you've most likely read science fantasy literature.