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Michel de Chevin is our follower in DA 4


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#1
ladyofpayne

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I collected all evidiences

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I think developers prepeare Michel de Chevin as our follower in DA 4. This conclusion has been made by three points: his place as main hero in the book, his knowledge about eluvians and unusual attention to him.

Michel is elven blood chevalier from Masked Empire who saw the eluvian network and in the end of the book  he has left Celene and travels around Thedas for Imshael. In DAI we could end his story and take him as our agent.

That could possible be the end of it unless we read WOT 2 and see that all secondary characters  with finished storylines have notes. All Masked Empire characters have even their  own pages except for Michel - he is mentioned only in Imshael letter.  That means Michel story isn’t over. In DA 4 we will know more about the eluvians and Michel is one character of four main heroes from the book whom can help us with this: Celene, Gaspard and Briala won’t be useful for this purpose because they could be dead or rule Orlais. By Orlesian laws Michel is criminal whose noble titlewas forged so he has no reason to be in Orlais anymore. Even if we send him to court once again the Emperor or Emperess can command him to help us if we need to make research about eluvians. And we seems need to open their scerets.

First detail to support my thought is that Michel has too many detals about his life in the book to be just throw away after this and I think he is prepeard as the follower just like Cassandra was in her game support content- anime in her case told us more about her life as Seeker.

Second point is that quest with Imsael Inqusitor can make plot twist and send demon to kill him could be easily avoided- demon could just seriously damage Michel in the game.

Third point - Patric Weeks loves him and he is in Heroes of Dragon age.

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As the conclusion Michel could show us Cevaliers as faction just like Dorian did that for altus class or Cullen for Templars. We really need somone show us Chevaliers from inside to make Dragon age lore deeper.

If you support idea about chevalier companion plase sign this petition. Also his thread on Bioforums.

My pictures of him

http://ladyofpayne.t...evin-by-lukiana

 



#2
Arshei

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But he is dead in my game!

Another lyrium spirit?

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#3
JadeDragon

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I wouldn't mind a chevalier companion maybe a former friend of michel. As much as I would like for Michel to be a companion being that he can possibly die thea only way he can return is if ishamel gets to be his replacement companion either using him as a skin suit like justice did or in his own human form either way A brand new companion can give us insight on chevaliers. Michel had a chance in DAI and they missed the boat then made a option for the boat to crash.

#4
Andromelek

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If I learned something from the Halo's forums, is that not even a giant thread to request something is necessarily successful, so, I wouldn't use a request thread as evidence.

#5
thats1evildude

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You kniw, I really doubt any of the Agents or Party members will be returning party members in DA4, if we are indeed moving to Tevinter. I can't see them going that far north.

#6
Tielis

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In before the "he's dead in my game so he has to stay dead" bullies.  :(  Oh well, too late for that.

 

Anyway, I think it would be exceedingly cool if the people who killed him ended up with Imshael wearing his skin as a companion.  I'd never do that, but it would be cool.  :)

 

That having been said, I really liked Michel in TME, and I think he's very due for some lovin'.  ;)  I can't stand the teased hair, though.  Too poofy at the top.



#7
thesuperdarkone2

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Someone seems a bit obsessed.
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#8
The Ascendant

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Wouldn't mind seeing him again, but be a little bit realistic. His existence is possible, but what would he be doing in Tevinter? True he has some knowledge of Eluvians and he is an Inquisition Agent not to mention a skilled Orlesian Chevailer, but his place is in Orlais.

Not to mention Imshael could kill him, if you make a deal.



#9
Nixou

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But he is dead in my game!

Another lyrium spirit?

 

 

Spoiler


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#10
Shienis

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Anyway, I think it would be exceedingly cool if the people who killed him ended up with Imshael wearing his skin as a companion.  I'd never do that, but it would be cool.   :)

 

If they find a solid reason for him to be there (other than "put Michel into the game for the sake of putting Michel into the game"), then yes, this would be interesting to see. :) (if they can create believable difference between Michel and Imi-not-so-Michel)



#11
Brass_Buckles

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More power to you if you want him there.

 

I do not like Michel, not one bit.  Unfortunately my elf had no idea of the horrors that Michel di Chevin was responsible for, or she'd never have made him an agent despite her overall kindness.  Not knowing his history would make it hard for me to have any given character not recruit him or any chevalier (because I try to roleplay rather than metagame), but I really, truly would not want him in my party.

 

Is he an interesting character?  Yes.  Does he keep his word?  Yes--even to an elf, amazingly enough.

 

I still find him despicable.  At least Solas has the good grace to feel guilty over his horrific actions--something that you don't see from Michel.  Michel wants to feel he is better than elves (even though he is half elf), and he's "proven" it by killing a bunch of unarmed, helpless alienage elves who had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And why?  Because Michel wanted to be "better," and he wanted to achieve rank and "honor."  But there's no honor in harming the helpless.

 

So I suppose it's more fair to say that as far as characters go, I like him, but I still dislike his personality and would not want him as a party member.  I wasn't too thrilled with having him as an agent.

 

Edited to add:  I suppose what I'm saying is that I appreciate Michel as a character, but not as a person.  It's mostly because of his lack of remorse.  I guess if he started to crack and show that he was sorry for what he'd done, and if I could push him to do something to work toward redemption, I'd feel more magnanimous toward him.

 

Aside from that though, we seem to be going to Tevinter.  Why would Michel be there?  And also, the devs have stated that they are trying to be less inclined to bring back characters who could be dead.  Doesn't mean they can't or won't, but it does mean it's less likely.


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#12
Alejandrawrr

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But he is dead in my game!

Another lyrium spirit?

HT3WyLw.jpg

While his death is the reason I'd say he's not appearing, let's not forget checking "killed Leliana" in DA Keep. That said, I never sided with Imshael (not even with my darkest Inquisitor), so I'm not sure if they killed him in such a way that he very clearly could not come back. And of course, they can always simply override our choices and make it so that the canon Inquisitor sided with Mich *shrug*

I'd like Michel as a companion, but I don't see it happening. If anything, my general expectation is that, starting in a completely new region (and considering how they've been trying to tie up bothersome old plot threads), we will have a large number if not a full cast, of totally new companions.



#13
Brass_Buckles

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While his death is the reason I'd say he's not appearing, let's not forget checking "killed Leliana" in DA Keep. That said, I never sided with Imshael (not even with my darkest Inquisitor), so I'm not sure if they killed him in such a way that he very clearly could not come back. And of course, they can always simply override our choices and make it so that the canon Inquisitor sided with Mich *shrug*

I'd like Michel as a companion, but I don't see it happening. If anything, my general expectation is that, starting in a completely new region (and considering how they've been trying to tie up bothersome old plot threads), we will have a large number if not a full cast, of totally new companions.

 

It's possible he'd be brought back, but as I pointed out above, the developers have made remarks about trying to mostly avoid bringing back potentially dead characters.  Again, that doesn't mean they never will, or that Michel couldn't be an exception in some way (maybe possessed by a spirit or demon), but it's a lot less likely than if there were no possibility of his death.



#14
Alejandrawrr

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It's possible he'd be brought back, but as I pointed out above, the developers have made remarks about trying to mostly avoid bringing back potentially dead characters.  Again, that doesn't mean they never will, or that Michel couldn't be an exception in some way (maybe possessed by a spirit or demon), but it's a lot less likely than if there were no possibility of his death.

Yeah, that was an aspect of why I also stated I don't think he's appearing. While I love the freedom of choice we have, I actually don't mind them doing away with some of our choices for a better narrative (ie: if a character who might have died wasn't done full justice in their first appearance and could be really well-written + and their death wasn't a huge thing in the first place). But I understand all the backlash they get when they undermine our choices. Poor all the promising characters developing small fanbases (Michel, Abelas, Ser Barris, Calpernia? etc).


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#15
daveliam

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Like the last two threads that the OP created listing her "proof" that he's coming back, I'm not convinced.  Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't get your hopes up that he's coming back in DA4.

 

Also, I love how having a "I'd prefer if the characters who are dead don't get magically resurrected" stance makes you a "bully" now...  Oh, BSN.  Why can't I quit you......?


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#16
Ryzaki

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Like the last two threads that the OP created listing her "proof" that he's coming back, I'm not convinced.  Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't get your hopes up that he's coming back in DA4.

 

Also, I love how having a "I'd prefer if the characters who are dead don't get magically resurrected" stance makes you a "bully" now...  Oh, BSN.  Why can't I quit you......?

 

It's like heroin. Once you take that first hit it's already too late.


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#17
dgcatanisiri

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It's like heroin. Once you take that first hit it's already too late.

 

That would explain a lot, really...


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#18
phantomhive

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Trespasser ending - explains a lot. And that's why I think it's not possible.



#19
Hydwn

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In before the "he's dead in my game so he has to stay dead" bullies.   :(  Oh well, too late for that.

 

 

I don't think it's bullying.  It's just well-known that Shroedinger's characters have a low chance of appearing in a major role because it requires so much extra code.  After all the flack they took over Leliana's return, I don't know if they'd want to touch that one again.

 

(The fanbase was merciless about that before Trespasser explained it, and some still are.  Yet the same fanbase really, really wants to see the Warden again even though they're probably more likely to be dead than Leliana.)

 

A shame.  Michel de Chevin was a really interesting character in Masked Empire.  He looked so different than I expected in the game, though, I had a hard time seeing it as the same character.  I'd hold out for a small cameo, but I think any returning characters in a major role will be those alive in all playthroughs.



#20
Sylvernights

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More power to you if you want him there.

 

I do not like Michel, not one bit.  Unfortunately my elf had no idea of the horrors that Michel di Chevin was responsible for, or she'd never have made him an agent despite her overall kindness.  Not knowing his history would make it hard for me to have any given character not recruit him or any chevalier (because I try to roleplay rather than metagame), but I really, truly would not want him in my party.

 

Is he an interesting character?  Yes.  Does he keep his word?  Yes--even to an elf, amazingly enough.

 

I still find him despicable.  At least Solas has the good grace to feel guilty over his horrific actions--something that you don't see from Michel.  Michel wants to feel he is better than elves (even though he is half elf), and he's "proven" it by killing a bunch of unarmed, helpless alienage elves who had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And why?  Because Michel wanted to be "better," and he wanted to achieve rank and "honor."  But there's no honor in harming the helpless.

 

So I suppose it's more fair to say that as far as characters go, I like him, but I still dislike his personality and would not want him as a party member.  I wasn't too thrilled with having him as an agent.

 

Edited to add:  I suppose what I'm saying is that I appreciate Michel as a character, but not as a person.  It's mostly because of his lack of remorse.  I guess if he started to crack and show that he was sorry for what he'd done, and if I could push him to do something to work toward redemption, I'd feel more magnanimous toward him.

 

Aside from that though, we seem to be going to Tevinter.  Why would Michel be there?  And also, the devs have stated that they are trying to be less inclined to bring back characters who could be dead.  Doesn't mean they can't or won't, but it does mean it's less likely.

 

While you're free to have your opinions on Michel I don't think they take into account the entire picture, nor do I think we get to see Michel's depths enough to assume what he was trying to do was gain rank and be better than elves. Did he want honor? Yes. Was his ultimate intention to gain rank and prove that he was better than the elves, I didn't get that from the book to be honest with you. If Michel thought he was above the unwashed masses, elves included, he would not have protected his friend (we don't know if his friend was human, elf-blooded, or elf) from getting beaten up in the slums. Given that his mother was an elf we can possibly assume his friend was either an elf or at least elf-blooded. Additionally I don't recall his memories of his mother being ones of resentment or feeling that he was better than her, I wish the writers would have gone more into his emotions, but when he thinks about his mother's cooking I get a sense that he loved her, but he was very young when she died. The problem is that Michel is trying to find a niche in a world that doesn't really want either part of him. He generally wants to do good and based on some subtle reactions from the book he wants more for the city elves, believe it or not. His reaction to Halamshiral burning was not that he was better, and they deserved it, it wasn't the reaction of someone who believed themselves superior. "Though he hadn’t fought this evening, he looked tired, and as he looked past her at the burning slums, his face gave away some of the sorrow he had tried so hard to deny back in the coach." Clearly what happened in Halamshiral and to the people was painful for him and it's possible he even grew up up there.

Additionally whether or not Michel feels remorse, feels guilt and shame over what he did we cannot tell, again the book does not dig into him deep enough to get a sense of those particular feelings and I wish it did, so it's not explicitly stated. A little imagination and inferring is needed. What we do know is that he acknowledges his actions, when someone acknowledges that they have done something wrong, they acknowledge that they are responsible, and that shows emotional competency. Acknowledgement in it's own way means recognizing one's wrongs and knowing those wrongs which can be seen as guilt, as only guilty people acknowledge what they do. The fact that we get the memory from his point of view and not from a third party perspective of some kind gives some insight in his acknowledgement. Michel is famous for this. He acknowledged that he was wrong in letting Imshael free and he felt responsible and tried to correct it. Guilt. It's difficult to bring the dead back to life, but what we do know is that it is never mentioned that he took part in any further raids and if Briala is anything to go by he never showed any disrespect or prejudice toward any elf up until his identity was discovered then he started using knife-ear as a defense mechanism.

 

So, while yes, I do agree that the Chevalier induction practice of getting new recruits drunk on wine, putting weapons in their hands, and throwing them out into the streets to kill is wrong and corrupt...you would have to say the same for many of the organizations throughout Thedas that are corrupt and many of the much beloved characters who are corrupt or are part of the big machine that perpetuates the corruptness making their hands dirty by proxy, just as bloody. Good people who do nothing are just as corrupt and guilty, particularly those who live in ignorance, bury their heads in the sand, and refuse to acknowledge.

 

I can think of examples like Dorian Pavus, who is a character I absolutely adore, but never would he have lifted a finger to free the elves or other slaves of Tevinter, never would the thought have crossed his mind and I'm still not so certain that it does, unless he had been part of the Inquisition. Perhaps his family treats their slaves well, but owning slaves means you have to view people as inferior. Does he develop during his time with the Inquisition? Yes. And we get to see that development, we do not know how Michel has developed in his travels and in his trials, though he did make protecting that village a priority even over slaying Imshael which had been his purpose (it's important to note that Michel does not walk away from his purpose so easily, but he did it to protect those people, that shows growth) so perhaps he has grown as a character. If Dorian can grow then why not Michel, is it just because we do not see it? It's easier to judge a character when we see that character as a creature that does not possess the ability to grow, but I believe Michel grows.

 

And what about the noble character that is Cullen Rutherford, let's discuss some of the noble things he's done as part of his duty as a Templar...such as what happens to magi who fail their Harrowing. He kills them. Yup. Cullen Rutherford murderer of innocents who fail their Harrowing. The alternative is being made tranquil. So the mages within the circle are made to undergo this test, they do not know when they will be given this test, and this test is designed to determine if one has will, common sense, and a prowess for resisting temptation, it has nothing to do with magical competency, they are measuring things that are subjective here. If you don't want to do this you can elect to be an emotional zombie. Either way you are forced to do something you do not want to do and if you fail at the Harrowing you are killed and Cullen was part of that. I suspect he acknowledges it and as I said acknowledgement means knowing you did wrong, and knowing you did wrong implies guilt. Still, he was part of this slaughter fest as was part of being a Templar, except instead of elves it was mages and Templars are infamous for mistreatment of mages. That doesn't make them all bad...but by your reasoning Cullen must think he's better than mages then (and that includes elves btw)? But I do not believe that is the sum of who he is and I do believe people change, Cullen changes (but depending on your route, he could be a jerk too). I do not believe Michel's induction is the sum of who he is either and it shouldn't be everything that colors the perspective of his character. 

 

I could keep giving examples of perfectly good characters who have done awful things or how they are part of this machine of awful things as bystanders, like Zevran who has probably killed plenty of innocent people without remorse as a Crow in his time (possibly more innocent people than Michel himself I dare say) as a member of the Crows. One could argue that he had very little choice and that he shows remorse...for some things, but only for some things. He also saw the advantage of being a Crow and the benefits as well and looked at what he did as a job, killing is a way to put coin in his pocket. Again a perfectly good character, but not a noble one by any stretch of the imagination. Give me a character and there's a good chance they have done something despicable for a cause they believed in, for something they wanted, for "the greater good" etc. 

 

I think it's unfair to be that harsh with Michel while forgetting to take into account the entire context of Thedas, the way it is structured, his place in it as an elf-blooded who is neither recognized by humans or elves. You will not find a single order that is not corrupt in its methods on some level. 


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#21
Midnight Bliss

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Unless they find a loophole for the Imshael decision he probably wouldn't be a companion.

 

A shame too since I'd love for him to be a companion/romance option in DA4



#22
Sylvernights

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I don't think it's impossible for Michel de Chevin to return in DA4 even if you killed him in Inquisition, if you think about it the world choices you make throughout the games can have an impact on the next game. For example one might kill Anders in Dragon Age II, but if he is spared and romanced in DA II Hawke does talk about him. So your personal decisions can impact how things are translated in the game. If you didn't kill him then it is possible that he could appear, or he could appear as a default, or (if I were going to make a loop hole) my loop hole would be that "special" companions could be based on choices you've made...oooh which is interesting in Michel's case given Imshael...Choice Spirit...yeah. Anyway, it would be interesting if Michel could be an acquired companion simply based on your world setting, that would be spectacular. Just because a character is dead in your world setting based on your decisions doesn't mean that is how it has to translate to every world setting. It's probably not going to happen and I won't get my hopes up, but it wouldn't take a genius to make it work that way and I think it would be amazing if they could do that.



#23
Arvaarad

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Dead in my world too, though I honestly don't mind when dead characters come back. It's a magical fantasy world on the brink of apocalypse. Miracles are going to happen from time to time.

 

That said, I imagine Imshael would be pretty unhappy if Michel came back. He loooooooves playing with consequences, imagine how cheesed off he'd be if the primary consequence of that choice gets reversed?  :D



#24
CuriousArtemis

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Edited to add:  I suppose what I'm saying is that I appreciate Michel as a character, but not as a person.  It's mostly because of his lack of remorse.  I guess if he started to crack and show that he was sorry for what he'd done, and if I could push him to do something to work toward redemption, I'd feel more magnanimous toward him.

 

These are my favorite kinds of characters though. And it's why I was disappointed with Cullen in DAI, despite being a HUGE fan of him in DA2. He had so much baggage, so many issues and such a shady past; he was a good person who'd done/said bad things. I was hoping some of that would come to light in DAI and he would have to wrestle with his demons. But nope. "That was unworthy of me." That's all we get. Sigh. I suspect the same would happen with Michel. Hell, the same DID happen with Michel. We got a blank slate of a pretty boy blond soldier (not that I'm complaining about his looks :P) and none of the nuance that made the character interesting in the book. Why have him there to begin with? Just to nod and wink at players who read the book? So sad...



#25
AedanStarfang

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I liked Michel so it would be cool to see him again. Also death is relatively cheap in the DA universe, a character can and will be ret-conned back into existence if a writer sees fit to.