109 réponses à ce sujet

[Karma_Joy]

All he wanted to do was save the human race. 

 

If the new game is andromeda, it will be discovered the colony ships sent there were directly funded by cerberus!

[Mdizzletr0n]

Save them by sacrificing the other races. Yea... Good guy indeed. Humans (based on actual present day) didn't really deserve to be saved in ME, IMO. Not all of them anyways.

[Salarian Master Race]

Cerberus was the human version of the Salarian STG.  It's a shame they didn't realize the dangers of Reaper tech until it was too late

[mickey111]

Hitler wanted to improve the lives of the citizens of Denmark. He did this by starving a capital of Russia in a siege so Denmark could populate Moscow and take advantage of the fertile soil. Almost 30 million Russians dies of poverty and cannibalism.

 

In Mass Effect? Hitler vs Illusive Man, Russia vs Aliens, both are interchangeable. 

[DeathScepter]

Indoctrination is hellva a drug. *ask a Cerberus Phantom about the researching of Reversing Indoctrination by the Reapers* Keep in mind that With T.I.M was more Rational, Cerberus wasn't against so much against the other races as they want humanity to be powerful force.(Case In Point that Jacob's Mission to stop the Batarians with their Bio weapon to use on the Citadel)

[Killdren88]

Yes...Tricking Refugees under the guise of safety, but really using them as test subjects. Forcing Biotic students to either join up or die, treating children like lab rats, Using people to test the Thorian, implanting their own people with Reaper tech so they become little more than husks. I could go on. But yeah...Totally the good guys, and the Shepard is the true villain trying to stop them. We were completely in the wrong in trying to stop them.

[Laughing_Man]

I don't know about being the "good guy", but Bioware certainly used a rather naive vision on what galactic politics are like.

 

By necessity, the humans had to have a Cerberus-like secret agency that handled the unpleasent side and realities of galactic politics discreetly,

if only to be somewhat on par with the other races.

 

That's the minimum you have to do to survive, not for the "take over the galaxy" cliche.

 

The Salarians had their STG since before humans knew how to make decent swords, the other races had their versions too probably.

 

Cerberus was handed both the Idiot-Ball and the Evil-Ball, so they could be the strawman for Bioware's naive stance on everything that has to do with pragmatism. Instead of being a thought-provoking grey entity that could have actually made Shepard doubt himself (never mind the possibility of actually joining them), they were reduced to a cartoonish puppy-kicking babies-eating villainous group of villains.

 

You can't be the nice wimp when it comes to the shadow war between secret agencies, you need a certain measure of ruthlesness or rather determination.

[Salarian Master Race]

Humans - Cerberus

Salarians - STG

Turians - Armagier Legion (remember that bomb they planted years ago that you had to disarm and no one ever even knew about it)

 

Americans - CIA/FBI (we get two because 'murica)

Soviet Union - KGB

 

Romulans - Tal'Shiar

Federation - Section 31

Cardassians - Obsidian Order

 

And these are just examples off the top of my head.  They do what they do for the good of their people, out of public sight, because if the public knew what was going on they would object.  It's a safe presumption that all races have such an organization, even if it isn't present in the story.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Wasn't that the spectres' job, though? Cerberus, from what I recall, (or was led to believe) acted separately. BW did have a lot of opportunities to make Cerberus seem necessary by never really going too deep into them. They just some how had as much money as the Alliance did but where did that money come from? A Court of Owls like Human Superiority organization consisting of the some of the wealthiest human supporters? Illegal trade?

But none of them say "Cerberus gud." Then again, I suppose it's perspective.. There were people that thought Hitler was good too.

[Mdizzletr0n]

The CIA/FBI don't seem to have an alien hating cult of followers. Most people that hate "illegals" don't even support those organizations because "government is too big."

[Salarian Master Race]

Wasn't that the spectres' job, though? Cerberus, from what I recall, (or was led to believe) acted separately. BW did have a lot of opportunities to make Cerberus seem necessary by never really going too deep into them. They just some how had as much money as the Alliance did but where did that money come from? A Court of Owls like Human Superiority organization consisting of the some of the wealthiest human supporters? Illegal trade?

But none of them say "Cerberus gud." Then again, I suppose it's perspective.. There were people that thought Hitler was good too.

 

The money would have come from Alliance taxes, private donations from sympathetic politicians, fundraisers with false themes, just like real world government.  There will never be any official connection, but Cerberus is actually a "shadow department" of the Alliance.  You are correct in comparing it to Spectres, in that they operate with independant authority, but the difference is that Spectres are officially sanctioned, whereas Cerberus is shrouded in plausible deniability.

[themikefest]

TIM is cool. He and Cerberus did what no one else could do. Stop the collectors with Shepard leading the way. He cares about humanity. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Unfortunately they turned into the keystone cops in ME3. I still like TIM.

[Br3admax]

The CIA/FBI don't seem to have an alien hating cult of followers. Most people that hate "illegals" don't even support those organizations because "government is too big."

That's because not a single alien race has come to this planet and threatened it, that we know of. We don't fear Reapers raining down fire on us either. Don't see how that's relevant. 

[Mdizzletr0n]

Shepard only lead because s/he had no actual choice.

I'm STILL bitter about that. lol

[Mdizzletr0n]

That's because not a single alien race has come to this planet and threatened it, that we know of. We don't fear Reapers raining down fire on us either. Don't see how that's relevant.

Not actual beings from space (that we know of) no, but there's still plenty of xenophobia. That's my point.

Regarding the repeats, Cerberus didn't just appear when the Reapers touched down and started blowing everyone to bits. As far as the story goes, get humans learned of alien life a bit before that and after the war between them and the turians.

All in all it makes it seem like the humans wanted their cake and to eat it too. Human superiority AND a seat on the council with aliens.

[Pasquale1234]

Yes...Tricking Refugees under the guise of safety, but really using them as test subjects. Forcing Biotic students to either join up or die, treating children like lab rats, Using people to test the Thorian, implanting their own people with Reaper tech so they become little more than husks. I could go on. But yeah...Totally the good guys, and the Shepard is the true villain trying to stop them. We were completely in the wrong in trying to stop them.

Credit where it's due, but the Thorian business was ExoGeni.

[Mdizzletr0n]

There's a company that I wish had been fleshed out more as well. ExoGeni.

[Br3admax]

Not actual beings from space (that we know of) no, but there's still plenty of xenophobia. That's my point.

And my point is comparing actual aliens to foreigners is stupid. 

Regarding the repeats, Cerberus didn't just appear when the Reapers touched down and started blowing everyone to bits. As far as the story goes, get humans learned of alien life a bit before that and after the war between them and the turians.

Nope. The turians pretty much just open fired on humanity because they activated the wrong relay. 

 

 

All in all it makes it seem like the humans wanted their cake and to eat it too. Human superiority AND a seat on the council with aliens

The what now? Everyone wants their species to gain more prestige and standing. That's why we aren't extinct right now.   

[Giantdeathrobot]

Difference was that STG, the Commandos, the Armigers legions and others are government santioned. Cerberus was independant, and indeed wholly devoted to one man who (surprise) ended up going on the mother of all power trips then got himself indoctrinated. There's a reason organisms such as these need some government oversight.

 

And please, please no Cerberus in Andromeda. As much as Martin Sheen was a great voice actor, they were also easily the worst piece of writing in the original trilogy apart from the Catalyst. Let them rot in the Milky Way where they belong.

[Fidite Nemini]

This thread is electrocuting me with all its wats.

[Cyonan]

In Mass Effect 2 they made TIM into a character that seemed like they were trying to do good for Humanity, but was willing to do some pretty terrible things to accomplish those goals. He was very much a "the end justifies the means" type of guy.

 

In Mass Effect 3, he was clearly a bad guy. Just a bad guy that wasn't aligned with the other bad guys you were fighting.

[wolfsite]

Also keep in mind that Cerberus was responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of Alliance officers (Akuze anyone?) by tricking them with distress probes and then feeding them to Thresher Maws.  Plus, like every other Cerberus mission, what was learned from it was what we already know, Thresher Maws kill people.

 

Seriously in the original Mass Effect I felt more like a clean up crew for Cerberus' screw ups and the only thing they learned was that they shouldn't have done those things in the first place.  They are like kids who keep sticking a fork in an electrical socket despite the fact that they keep getting shocked every time they do it.

 

Plus they had Admiral Kohoku killed just because he was looking for his men - you know, the ones they killed for no good reason - .  For a group that is supposed to be looking out for human interests they really know how to kill humans and have nothing to show for all the deaths.

[Cheviot]

TIM is cool. He and Cerberus did what no one else could do.

You mean trap humans in a room with violent space monsters, then continually lie to the guy to your employees and treat them like expendable goons while also keeping them under constant survalliance? That isn't the definition of "cool" I know of. You know what the Cerberus retirement plan is? An exploding face.

[themikefest]

You mean trap humans in a room with violent space monsters, then continually lie to the guy to your employees and treat them like expendable goons while also keeping them under constant survalliance? That isn't the definition of "cool" I know of. You know what the Cerberus retirement plan is? An exploding face.

No. I mean helping stop the collectors with Shepard leading the way. That's what I posted. Right?

[wolfsite]

No. I mean helping stop the collectors with Shepard leading the way. That's what I posted. Right?

Not really, he was after the collector base for the technology.  If you destroy the base he chews Shepard out stating that he/she "choked" when it counted, clearly showing he feels the mission was a failure. If he cared about humanity he would have at least shown some relief that humans would no longer be targeted by the Collectors but his actions showed that he could really care less if he doesn't get what he wants, which was the collector base and the technology it had.