if I were a Dev I'd never come to these boards because all the people with reasonable complaints (hair issues, the majority of DAI being side quests) are nice and all, but the radioactive cockroaches are everywhere
I suspect that they have curators tasked to act as filters, separating the valid arguments from the trolling and transmitting only the first. That way devs still get feedback without getting depressed -or worse: angry- by all the personal attacks and petty complains.
I have honsetly never seen a dev be verbally attacked on these forums. I have seen tough questions thrown their way they may not have wanted to answer. It seems when a dev is on here the conversation goes is just fine .So I find it ridiculous that the excuse they use is "toxic forum" for not responding to feedback and the like.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen a few people attack one of the devs recently on something they most likely have no control over.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen a few people attack one of the devs recently on something they most likely have no control over.
As has been said many times before the forum is nowhere near as bad as it was after DA2 and ME3. The majority of criticism is actually comparatively mild, of course there are exceptions but they aren't the norm, and in fact I and others have noted many times in the past that more of a dev response to concerns would probably help the tone of the forum generally.
However as was noted upthread the dev absence now compared to prior to launch and just after definitely has the smell of they were only here to hype the game.
Bryan Johnson was fairly active after the Trespasser DLC release.
Apart from the patch there's not a whole lot happening in the DA 'verse. There's the comic I suppose, but I don't know that game devs are going to have a whole lot to say about that. Got to think the next game is at least 3 years away. Probably at least 2 years away from even being announced.
As far the devs being attacked, it's disappointing, people do use the forums to vent frustrations and the line does get crossed. I wouldn't mind a registered game owners forum where the devs are free to mingle with game owners when they want and if we cross the line then perhaps one warning depending on severity then out.
Forgot about this thread- heh...
So the presumption is that the devs don't return here because it's too "toxic." It hasn't been toxic all along? As we know, the internet is like a bridge for trolls. The devs showed up regardless. Or is it that it's gotten that much worse?
But what I was wondering was whether the devs themselves had said anything about it, if it was a general policy to stop participating in forums no more than a couple months post-development, and what the reasoning might be for it. Actually DAI development hasn't stopped until recently with the release of Trespasser, but still. Speculating isn't what I was after.
Whatever the "attacks" devs may have suffered, the posts I've read from Dec, 2014, back looked mostly very friendly- even looked downright fun for the devs much of the time- lots of humor and interesting view exchanges- and their appearances seemed to have been greeted with a mutual appreciation. Then those appearances just stopped. Maybe they got burned out from the "toxicity." Maybe it's true that they just sort of abandoned the DAI forum in preparation for DA4 development and its forum. But that's just more speculation. I wondered if there was something more official- either a general policy or a statement made.
I don't mean to be obtuse. Toxic is toxic and devs ultimately move on regardless, but I agree with a few above who mentioned that it would actually be nice for plenty of us to know they still even like the player base they've cultivated, want to be with us, much less hear well-intentioned, balanced feedback that can put into perspective whatever seems off about the game. After all, the game does work. The glitches aren't so bad that you're having to labor through them to get anywhere, use out-of-game workarounds, etc. Whatever oh-so-huge amount of bugs there are- and I think the game's crashed on me about 10 times in my first run so far (of over 300hrs)- you can still complete the game successfully, pretty much everything does work sufficiently, and you can still access a huge amount of content in the game without a hitch as well. And DAI involved an unthinkable amount of variables to get straight given how many choices they built into the game, so to have as many working properly as are is quite the feat. So we're not talking about a disaster- not with the talent and quality of work that has been done in DAI. I mean, I have plenty of criticisms of the game, but I have substantially more praise for it and another whole slew of suggestions for improvement (which devs and other players may or may not agree with). But I have no expectations about how devs should interact on their game forums. I'm not a dev- whether of a small Indie company or an EA-backed corporation- so ultimately I don't know. I asked.
Anyway like I mentioned in the OP, I have seen no less than Gaider himself on the forum recently, and someone above mentioned that there is at least one dev who does show up here regularly- one fielding Trespasser feedback- so maybe I'm mistaken about devs not being here and we're simply not seeing the same type of dev interaction. After all, they did give us new Skyhold wear and a Golden Nug, so they've been at least listening to us in some capacity. Dunno.
So the presumption is that the devs don't return here because it's too "toxic." It hasn't been toxic all along? As we know, the internet is like a bridge for trolls. The devs showed up regardless. Or is it that it's gotten that much worse?
I don't think it's gotten worse: just that HRM told them to avoid the forums as to avoid ensnaring themselves in endless arguments.
Considering Inquisition is over, and DA4 is waiting greenlight (and probably only the writers working on it at the time to pitch ideas to EA), I'd say they are probably in Hawai or Maldives drinking Mai Tais and working on that Vivienne tan! Allow them their vacation! They are human too.
PS. They better start working full throttle soon tho, cant wait for DA4!!!!
Edit: Oh and Cheese!! They definitly got cheese on their eyes!
I'd rather know where the CM is first.
Well, what's left to say? The story of DAI is finished. Most have moved on to other projects or they're working on the pitch for DA4.
As far the devs being attacked, it's disappointing, people do use the forums to vent frustrations and the line does get crossed. I wouldn't mind a registered game owners forum where the devs are free to mingle with game owners when they want and if we cross the line then perhaps one warning depending on severity then out.
BSN used to be that and the the treatment of the devs was much worse.
BSN used to be that and the the treatment of the devs was much worse.
Well that's on the mods then. Some forums treat attacks on the devs quite harshly, even for minor things.
It's an old union saying: "Sorry its not in my job description."
Its a reasonable assumption to make that any interaction with the community by a developer outside certain settings, mostly relating to promotions, would be done on their own time, taking time away from their families and personal recreational interests. Time is money I suppose and if it isn't then 'its my time'.
edit: I should probably complete that thought. The fact that interaction with the community by developers is likely going to be on their personal time is going to weight on their perception of whether the forums are considered to be toxic or otherwise not inviting to them. At least since DA2 the forums have been at times quite unpleasant even for someone w/o a stake in the games. Its often just a matter of tone, in the way critics express themselves. Just enough I think to make devs think "You know what? I have a sink to unclog."
Maybe the community could create a slush fund to pay devs to interact with the BSN. $10 (cdn) word?
Maybe they got tired with all the Witcher is better comments, I no i did. 
edit: I should probably complete that thought. The fact that interaction with the community by developers is likely going to be on their personal time is going to weight on their perception of whether the forums are considered to be toxic or otherwise not inviting to them. At least since DA2 the forums have been at times quite unpleasant even for someone w/o a stake in the games. Its often just a matter of tone, in the way critics express themselves. Just enough I think to make devs think "You know what? I have a sink to unclog."
Are you saying that the forums now are similar to DA2 time?
Are you saying that the forums now are similar to DA2 time?
Tone wise, I don't think there has been that much change. In any case, you seem to be missing my main point. which is that we can assume that any interaction by people from Bioware other than from the community coordinators is going to be voluntary. There is no real reason from this basis to argue that devs need or have to interact with the BSN. They are free to choose.
I would say things have gotten better in the last couple of months. I first began lurking around the forums some time after the Nuclear Ending Detonation following ME3 and was so put off by all the negativity that I didn't start being active until after things have settled somewhat, which was a long time later. Truth be told, it was in part that I didn't even trust myself to hold back and refrain from joining in on the rage - and there was plenty enough of that already.
Now, if I, a rank-and-file fan, took a look at the state of things and went "nnnnnope", I can't possibly imagine how a dev, someone who was personally invested in the thing that was the result of his/her months of hard work and was now subject of all the vitriol being spewed all over, must have felt. No wonder they all ran for the hills and dug trenches filled with mods between us and them.
But as I said, and I really hope I don't jinx it, I think the BSN is much, much better these days. Truth be told, it is the only online community I have ever regularly visited or was willing to become a part of. Barring the obvious baiting and the occasional drama, which is to be generally expected and borne with (this still is the Internet, after all), there is a lot of genuinely interesting, constructive, well thought-out and fun discussion going on in here. Perhaps, if this trend continues, the devs might come back as well.
Maybe they got tired with all the Witcher is better comments, I no i did.
It's gonna be funny in a few years from now, when DA4 is out, people will still be like Witcher 3 was better and it was years ago, blablabla. Truth is, Witcher is done. Dragon Age is still half way thru. Im not saying one is better than the other, but there's not doubt which one will be around for longer. And I couldnt be happier 
As for toxic community, I think Trespasser DLC turned it around quite a bit. I was surprised to see all the praise in the forums in the days that followed the release. Let's hope they have set this bar for future games. But there will always be nay-sayers, no matter how good things get.
They probably use alternate accounts when posting here. As a developer you are forced into the role of being a company representative first, the person you really are, second. As such a representative you have to be EXTREMELY mindful of posting stuff, which can become a real strain. So I would think that if I was a dev, I would definitely create an account not even my co-workers knew about. With an anonymously sounding name like "someonestolemyname". This way I could post my opnions on the forum without the fear of jeopardizing my job. Or being scolded by Karin for my grammar. I might even go to the lengths of hiding my real country by using a VPN.
Purely hypothetical but you get the idea. I think the devs here are closer than you think. They could be anyone.
Marketing time is over, wait for DA4.
Marketing time is over, wait for DA4.
They probably use alternate accounts when posting here. As a developer you are forced into the role of being a company representative first, the person you really are, second. As such a representative you have to be EXTREMELY mindful of posting stuff, which can become a real strain. So I would think that if I was a dev, I would definitely create an account not even my co-workers knew about. With an anonymously sounding name like "someonestolemyname". This way I could post my opnions on the forum without the fear of jeopardizing my job. Or being scolded by Karin for my grammar. I might even go to the lengths of hiding my real country by using a VPN.
Purely hypothetical but you get the idea. I think the devs here are closer than you think. They could be anyone.
Sweetjeezuzfuck.
This is worse than a depressed teenager's Livejournal...
I recall when one poster proposed that devs be taken hostage and dealt with by extremist terrorists 
.
Most posters around here are nice but I also have a healthy 'ignore' list.
And I really understand why devs don't routinely post.
But I know for sure that they lurk...
When I first played the game I'd say to put 50 snipers protecting them if they ever got near me, and of course shoot me on sight. Now Bioware devs are dead to me, I have no interest in any interaction, positive or negative. I know I can't expect anything good from them. I acknowledge Trespasser as a masterpiece but gameplaywise it is clear they are going for action and action is completely unforgivable in an RPG. The reason I was hurt is because with Inquisition videos and interviews they made me believe it would be a RPG but then they released a 100% action game. They can't hurt me anymore because even after Trespasser, no matter what they say I will never believe them again. Now that even Sword Coast Legends is spoiled by action ****, Pillars of Eternity is officialy the last RPG of mankind. But the point is, I can't be hurt anymore because there is no expectations anymore.
Things would go a lot easier for them if they didn't lie. If instead of saying "we are going balancing between DAO and DA2" they said "we are getting the worse of everything we ever made and on top of that creating a combat system completely different from DAO and DA2, and infinitely worse than both at that, a tactical cam unable to handle obstalcles,there are a lot of them mind you, thus impossible to use, a lifeless PC with no facial expression, complete lack of character build and development and make sure we are stripping anything that made our games interesting, ever".
I don't know what is more sad, if it is me taking 5 years to realize they used DAO as bait for their future **** or if it is their complete lack of empathy and psychopath level straight face lying about the game. But 5 years was enough of dumbness and expectation. Bioware is dead, let's see if Obsidian can last another game... RPG is dying (well since there is only one game left I'd say dead), but I'm past hatred stage now it is just a fact I can't fight (except by keeping on making games to myself on RPG Maker, which I love).
But again, I blame them for half the toxicity they complain about. If they said in DAI I would have to jump to collect shards it would be impossible for me hate them and make my hateful posts because I would have never expected anything from the game in first place. But only half the blame, the other 50% is on me, the moment I saw they jumping in their videos I should have ignored this game. I know I hate action, jump is unacceptable, unforgiveable and even with their sweet talk about going back to their roots I should have dismissed this game solely by the presence of jumping. They lied but they couldn't hide this attrocity of action in an RPG, still it is sick that they tried to "sell it" saying it would have the good old RPG combat.
The only way I'm going to hate Bioware ever again is if they show screen of DA4 where you distribute stat points between levels, have no jumping, and all controls are point and click slow combat. Because these things are powerful enough to trick me again, make me buy their game, get frustrated with their lies (because it is obviously going to be lies) and create dozens of accounts to curse them in these forums. So well, if they could please avoid those ridiculous lies they said while developing Inquisition for the next game I would be VERY happy. (And avoid their imbecile action games)
I thought I would never post about this subject again but it is completely unfair to call this forums toxic when their promotion of Inquisition was the most toxic **** I ever heard in my life. Not that they stopped at that right? What they did to PS3 and X360 was just cruel. So, perhaps they could have less toxic talking if they were less vicious with their strikes. I didn't even have an account here prior to DAI because they didn't sell me a lie with DA2 or DAO, it took me a long time to get used to both (they were already faiures, too few races, classes, too much action, etc) but whatever, they didn't lie so it was on me. DAI was the first game they completely lied about and I bought the game because of their lies, I expected their lies to be true, and got a 100% action 0% RPG game.
It is sad that a company lies so much that you can't even believe them anymore, ever (except for a stat distribution screen, as I said, my weakness). It is even more sad that they think a forum is toxic given their level of toxicity. I wouldn't call these forum toxic, we are pretty straight forward, violent, aggressive and such, but they are the ones slowly killing with their toxin, they are venomous, hissing, devious snakes. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who got cured of Bioware by DAI, they can relax now, I doubt anyone who, like me, liked RPGs (and not this action ****) will ever bother them again UNLESS they go through ridiculous length of lies again pretending they still can make RPGs in which case they deserve the hatred.
I quit hating (DA4 and onwards) not because I realize I was wrong, but because I know for a fact that expecting them to be honest or do anything good is the most stupid thing a person can do. Having ANY hope on Bioware is completly insane. Hating them is not wrong, but since hating them means I was expecting something from them I just quit hating. Expecting honesty or quality from Bioware is like waiting for Jesus to come in a Rainbow Unicorn to take Satanists to the land of the Fairies. I know it was supposed to be clear by now, but just to make sure, a lot of things like my thousands of hateful posts here (across multiple accounts) did not need to happen if they were honest. They have a new (and disgusting) fanbase, focus on that mario jumping button mashing braindead organic things , don't drag people who liked old RPG games on this action ****.
There's no extra credit for super long answers.
Ariana's a simple troll whose voice shouldn't be taken seriously.
What she awed me that she has quite the vigor to troll tirelessly. Just look that post.
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