78 réponses à ce sujet

[kann.nix9mm]

.... She did it again before Solas killed her....

 

And how did you reach that conclusion? As far as I can see Flemeth is dead.

[X Equestris]

And how did you reach that conclusion? As far as I can see Flemeth is dead.

She put something through the Eluvian before Solas came along. So Flemeth might be dead, but part of Mythal might still be alive.

[Estel Lavellan]

It can't? Says who?
 
The day after the Inquisition finds Skyhold, sure, too weak to stand. By the time Corypheus knows that the Inquisition has survived, pinpoints Skyhold and gets troops in position to attack? By then months would have passed, and Skyhold would be strong enough to either hold them off or cost Corypheus a very very great deal.
 
This is all assuming Corypheus has any real intention of attacking the Inquisition, which he does not. He attacked Haven for two reasons. First, he was angry that the Inquisition got one of his armies. He suffered a loss and had to answer. But more importantly, he attacked Haven to get the Mark off the Herald. Something he concluded it was impossible to do. With his power demonstrated by destroying Haven and the anchor unrecoverable, he has no need to go toe to toe with the Inquisition. He certainly has no reason to suspect that they are a threat.
 
Let's not forget that the only reason the Inquisition is a threat to Corypheus is because they know exactly what he is going to do. Either the Inquisitor saw the future or the Inquisitor met someone who spent weeks/months hanging out with Corypheus' forces while capable of mind reading. Whichever it is, the Inquisition knows exactly what Corypheus has planned and is able to insert themselves into everything he is up to.
 
If not for knowledge the Inquisition had no reasonable way to have obtained, by the time they figured out their next move it would have been too late to stop Corypheus' plans. Orlais would have fallen and Corypheus would have a demon army. Game over.
 
So Corypheus would, at best, have to devote significant resources to destroying Skyhold all for no real strategic gain. At worst, he would spent almost everything he has directly confronting an enemy he has no reason to fight.

whatever happened to "I will not suffer even an unknowing rival, you must die"? Of course Corypheus had motivation to kill the Herald and the Inquisition, especially when what happened at Haven proved the inquisition to be a very credible threat.

Plus this is not some stupid siege scenario in which Corypheus sends waves of mooks trekking up the mountain only for them to die in droves. It's about Corypheus himself plus his archdemon kicking down the doors themselves. And it's virtually fail-proof because the two of them are just THAT op. Corypheus himself is immortal and magically powerful, so why not just try and kill a few hundred people before getting killed and then resurrecting somewhere? It's not like his resurrection has a limitation. And even if Corypheus is busy elsewhere, even the archdemon alone can make things hell for the Inquisition. Up until morrigan/guardian of mythal grounds the archdemon, the thing is damn near invincible. unless skyhold happens to have AA missiles or a crap load of archers, the archdemon can do severe damage without the threat of retaliation. Even if the walls are too strong for the archdemon to damage, Corypheus can just camp it outside the fortress to essentially starve them out. Collapse the mountain path or cause an avalanche, and you cut off reinforcements and supplies into skyhold. Even in the event that the entire player party comes out with superb dragon-slaying weapons or something, the archdemon can fly and can just leave if things get hairy. effective raid for virtually no cost there! Worst case scenario, corypheus loses his dragon, his essence comes back into him and he takes a couple days nap, then finds another high dragon to corrupt. meanwhile skyhold spends additional funds to rebuild, picks up the corpses and morale takes a hit. Rinse and repeat, and corypheus wins.

[In Exile]

Cory lost because writing. He had the power to raise the temple into the air... so why didn't he simply make Skyhold crumble into ruin with a violent eruption and kill everyone in one attack. You know, no armies, no "HERE I AM!" just... walk up to the fort at night and make the mountain it was sitting on explde and go home.

 

This is the inherent problem when there's too much power involved in plots, the "Heros triumph" becomes childish and unbelievable.

 

Skyhold had "ancient magic" protecting it. It may well have been on the site of Solas's ritual to create the Veil. There's a plot reason as to why he couldn't and didn't attack it. 

[Jandi]

Skyhold had "ancient magic" protecting it. It may well have been on the site of Solas's ritual to create the Veil. There's a plot reason as to why he couldn't and didn't attack it. 

 

So the entire mountain is somehow immune to magic? Why? How? If elven sites makes things immune to magic a lot of places would be. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've seen no indication of anything like that. Saying "ancient magic protects this place" could mean anything, literally.

[In Exile]

So the entire mountain is somehow immune to magic? Why? How? If elven sites makes things immune to magic a lot of places would be. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've seen no indication of anything like that. Saying "ancient magic protects this place" could mean anything, literally.

Sure. And that's why the writers phrased it so vaguely. The lore justification is that Skyhold is on some magic plot of land that prevents Corypheus from attacking you.

I'd wager his orb won't work for him, as it's really Solas's orb, and if Skyhold is tied to Solas, well, he might well have had some backup in case he lost it to the Evanuris.

[diaspora2k5]

As explained by Morrigan, the only reason Corypheus' body surf ability can be disrupted is because he 'invested a portion of his being' into making the false Archdemon. This really brings up an uncomfortable notion, that Corypheus would have been effectively immortal had he not made the false Archdemon, since his body surf ability has no known maximum range and can be done with any blighted body. 

 

If this is the case, could the Inquisitor really have benefited from divine providence? That the Maker's hand ensured that Corypheus will inevitably have created the Red Lyrium Dragon and therefore will inevitably have a fatal weakness?

His immortality comes from the blight/taint right? Maybe if you made him undergo The Architect's joining for Darkspawn that grants them some blight resistance it'd make him kill-able. Just conjecture though.

[Arvaarad]

Remember that confused old man we fought in Legacy? The one that said "what waking dream is this?"

He's still there, behind all the layers of pageantry and bluster. He's a man in the throes of something worse than an existential crisis. Not only did he find heaven empty, he found it blighted. While most existential crises center around "there are no gods, and the universe is indifferent", his crisis is "there are no gods, and the universe is malicious." In his mind, not only is Thedas facing the universe alone, they're facing a cruel and evil universe alone.

He concluded that the world would be better if it had a god. He certainly felt better back when he thought there were gods.

That's why, even after all his attempts at making himself a god, he still calls out to Dumat at the end. He doesn't want to be a god, he wants there to be a god. If the only way he can achieve that is by roleplaying a god, so be it, but being a god is not his ultimate goal.

So he needs the pomp, he needs the pageantry, he needs the monologues. It's a critical part of his plan. In order to call his plan a success, he must be not just a god, but a highly visible, interventionist god.

And I think deep down he knows it's all a sham, but he doesn't know what else to do.

[Jandi]

Sure. And that's why the writers phrased it so vaguely. The lore justification is that Skyhold is on some magic plot of land that prevents Corypheus from attacking you.

I'd wager his orb won't work for him, as it's really Solas's orb, and if Skyhold is tied to Solas, well, he might well have had some backup in case he lost it to the Evanuris.

 

I took it to mean it's warded against demons and/or the Veil is thick there but It's possible that's precisely why Solas led them there, because the Focus couldn't be used there. But then... how could Solas use the Focus there to create the Veil? (assuming that's indeed the place where it was created). I guess it's just one of those mysteries.

[SandiKay0]

Honestly, I think Cory truly belived he was immortal. I don't believe he thought he could die. The inquistor to him was an inconvience.

[In Exile]

I took it to mean it's warded against demons and/or the Veil is thick there but It's possible that's precisely why Solas led them there, because the Focus couldn't be used there. But then... how could Solas use the Focus there to create the Veil? (assuming that's indeed the place where it was created). I guess it's just one of those mysteries.

 

The Orb is tied to the Mark (which is also called the "anchor"), and we've seen the Mark manipulate the Veil in some radical ways (e.g. punch a hole in it while releasing its energy). We've also seen the Orb create, even without the Mark, the breach itself. So presumably it can be used to remove the Veil in some way (vs. just punching a hole in it in some inellegant way). 

[kann.nix9mm]

I'm unsure but I don't remember it was explained why Cory never attacked Skyhold. We only know Skyhold is somewhat unique, that's it. Or did I miss something?

[BansheeOwnage]

Actually I think this bit of plot is one that we should universally agree not to discuss...Because well, Corypheus is both powerful and essentially immortal, and he has a bloody superpowered dragon. And Samson is apparently invincible as well. So why not just kick down Skyhold's door himself? It's not like the early Skyhold inquisition has the ability to fend off even a normal high dragon, let alone the red lyrium one....And it's not like the inquisition is hidden in covert cells. Unless Skyhold has evil-proof shielding, I can't see a reason why Corypheus doesn't do that. 

 

It's such a game-breaking plot hole that I can't bear to delve further.

Actually, it's implied Skyhold does have some sort of subtle magical protection, though I doubt it would be enough to hold off an assault.

 

Yeah but haven't recent games began to either explain or at least lampshade the plot armour/protagonist-luck thing? For example in Skyrim the Last Dragonborn was foretold in a prophecy and is supposedly sent via divine providence to punish Alduin for abandoning his job, in Assassin's Creed you're essentially nudged in the general direction of destiny by higher powers...so I believe nowadays a more in-universe explanation can be applied to those things aside from 'he's lucky cuz protagonist'. Especially this game, since whether the protagonist was blessed by divine providence is an actual plot element. It's more relevant than in other games.

Look, you can interpret it that way if you want. The game lets you. I'm going to stick with "The bad guy needed a weakness so you could win", since that's what it screamed to me. It's one of the plot-points I wasn't too impressed with.

[diaspora2k5]

Actually, it's implied Skyhold does have some sort of subtle magical protection, though I doubt it would be enough to hold off an assault.

 

Look, you can interpret it that way if you want. The game lets you. I'm going to stick with "The bad guy needed a weakness so you could win", since that's what it screamed to me. It's one of the plot-points I wasn't too impressed with.

Using the blood of a Warden to weaken him would be lore-consistent too. Not sure what the point of the dragon was since you'd have to kill it anyway.

[BloodyTalon]

If Cory wasn't so prideful he would have won

[Aren]

The Grey Wardens imprisoned him before without the Mark. They couldn't kill him, but they could trap him.

 

 

Are you sure that such sophisticated  prison full of Dumat's magic, and ancient forbidden seals was built by some bunch of GW?

No one knows who created the magical  prison,someone  with knowledge far beyond the average (if it was a GW it was not a common one)..

[Daerog]

I didn't say the Wardens built the prison, just that they imprisoned him, but you make a good point.

 

The Wardens probably didn't build the prison itself, but the magical ritual to keep him locked up was used by the Wardens and a non-Warden blood mage.

 

I'm sure they went through many soldiers to finally trap Cory.

 

Ancient Tevinter had many great building and magical rituals that have been lost since the First Blight and war with Andraste. Such things can not be replicated, so they are just used in whatever way they can be used. I don't think Thedas builds new Circle towers, they just use Vint leftovers... well, at least the Towers we've been to in games were original Tevinter buildings.

 

The original Wardens were mostly Tevinter, so I'm sure the first generation of Wardens were powerful warriors and mages who knew a great deal about magic and secret stuff, that's what made Tevinter rule the continent for a long time.

[myahele]

As far as I know, that grey warden took really important/ancient books and destroyed them when she sealed up Corypheus

 

Speaking of Corypheus Prison, a similar one can be seen in The Descent where a Arcane Warrior (?) was sealed.

[MrMrPendragon]

If Cory wasn't so prideful he would have won

 

Definitely.

 

He could've taken one or two Wardens at the ass-end of Thedas and sacrificed one of them for the orb, go to the fade, and boom suddenly everything comes crashing down for the rest of Thedas and nobody knows about Corypheus until it's too late.

[Daerog]

If Cory wasn't so proud, he probably wouldn't have tried to ascend as he did a thousand years ago. Still, he could have learned some humility from the event, but nooooo.

[SandiKay0]

What if it was Cory that they took the blood from in the first place to create the Grey Wardens? What if that was why they imprisoned him, because the blood of an Archdeamon had to be hard to come by. Honestly, how would they have gotten Dumat's blood before the first Grey Wardens killed him?

[myahele]

Yeah, lets also not forget that Corypheus Dragon was also VERY powerful. Mythal's Ancient Dragon was killed fighting it and if Morrigan drank from the well, she get's gravely injured.

 

The Red Lyrium dragon we end up fighting/killing was gravely injured.  

[BSpud]

What if it was Cory that they took the blood from in the first place to create the Grey Wardens? What if that was why they imprisoned him, because the blood of an Archdeamon had to be hard to come by. Honestly, how would they have gotten Dumat's blood before the first Grey Wardens killed him?

 

The first Archdemon died many times. That's why a thing like the Grey Wardens needed to be created in the first place.

[SandiKay0]

Precicly, it did what Cory did.

[BSpud]

I'm just saying, there must've been A LOT of blighted Dumat blood around. Not hard to come by when it leaves behind multiple corpses that size.