78 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Using the blood of a Warden to weaken him would be lore-consistent too. Not sure what the point of the dragon was since you'd have to kill it anyway.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but for some reason I don't remember a warden's blood being able to weaken darkspawn

 

Yeah, lets also not forget that Corypheus Dragon was also VERY powerful. Mythal's Ancient Dragon was killed fighting it and if Morrigan drank from the well, she get's gravely injured.

 

The Red Lyrium dragon we end up fighting/killing was gravely injured.  

I know we shouldn't take too much from gameplay, but I did find it odd that it was easier to kill than some other dragons. I know it had half health, but it should have at least used the abilities the other dragons do, like stunning you or building Guard. Either way, it's harder to kill than Corypheus

 

I'm just saying, there must've been A LOT of blighted Dumat blood around. Not hard to come by when it leaves behind multiple corpses that size.

Huh. That must have been quite annoying for the people fighting the First Blight. And by annoying I mean despair-inducing. Still, you make a good point. Though I've always wondered how they preserved the blood, since it would coagulate pretty fast.

[Heimdall]

She put something through the Eluvian before Solas came along. So Flemeth might be dead, but part of Mythal might still be alive.

I have a feeling Flemeth is gone, but Mythal might have been sent to Morrigan.  Prediction: Morrigan reemerges in DA4 leading other Witches of the Wilds (Cause we know there are other daughters of Flemeth in other parts of Thedas) against Solas (Or something Old God related).

 

 

Are you sure that such sophisticated  prison full of Dumat's magic, and ancient forbidden seals was built by some bunch of GW?

No one knows who created the magical  prison,someone  with knowledge far beyond the average (if it was a GW it was not a common one)..

 

I'm pretty sure they did build the prison, remember that the first Blight mostly afflicted the Anderfels and Tevinter.  And at this time Tevinter had just recently been at the height of its power.  So the first Grey Warden mages were likely Tevinter and had access to a great deal of knowledge.

[Dai Grepher]

Based on what, exactly?

 

Mainly, the fact he didn't do it. But also because he is never seen levitating anything that was not either tainted, such as himself, or small/magical, such as the orb. He didn't even levitate the Herald at Haven. He bent down and picked him up.

[themikefest]

I know it had half health, but it should have at least used the abilities the other dragons do, like stunning you or building Guard.

It does build guard

https://youtu.be/fCDhmICe0RY?t=5m38s

[Heimdall]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but for some reason I don't remember a warden's blood being able to weaken darkspawn

It doesn't. And seeing as he is able to take Grey Warden bodies, I don't think Grey Warden blood would have any affect on him even if it did.
 

I know we shouldn't take too much from gameplay, but I did find it odd that it was easier to kill than some other dragons. I know it had half health, but it should have at least used the abilities the other dragons do, like stunning you or building Guard. Either way, it's harder to kill than Corypheus

I thought it did build guard? I could be misremembering. Anyway, it was easier because it was part of the main plot and the others are extra, meaning its designed to be beatable by players for whom this is the first High Dragon they've fought all game.
 

Huh. That must have been quite annoying for the people fighting the First Blight. And by annoying I mean despair-inducing. Still, you make a good point. Though I've always wondered how they preserved the blood, since it would coagulate pretty fast.

Well that's easy: Blood Magic!

[Dai Grepher]

1. That actually had me wondering. What did we do to him with the anchor anyway? We just banished him into the Fade. Sure, he's sent in as a disembodied spirit, but do we know that a physical body is a requisite requirement for his plan? That he couldn't have entered the Black City anyway even as a disembodied spirit? Or couldn't some fade spirit mirror him as it did Justinia and create another Corypheus? It seemed simply blasting him into tiny pieces would have been easier and safer. Now we don't even know if he's dead for sure.

 

2. I'm pretty sure Corypheus's soul doesn't work the same way as an Old God soul, but whatever. More sex is always good in my book.

 

3. The binder has to be more magically powerful than the binded in order for this to work. Pretty sure you're less magically powerful (or at least knowledgeable) than Corypheus no matter what. Also, a binding ritual applied to a mortal soul is almost definitely not applicable the same way for a darkspawn/magister/red lyrium hybrid. And you have to know its nature in order to bind it. Corypheus kind of defies categorization, so...slim chance.

 

4. The game makes it plenty clear that Corypheus can't be soul-kaboomed in the same way as Archdemons, likely because of different natures. But that's still a fact.

 

1. I think it drew him into the Fade in pieces, both physically and spiritually. Kind of like flushing potato skins down a garbage disposal.

 

2. Well it was compared to it. So I imagine the same could be done with his soul. It would just require a little tweaking of the ritual so that it would draw his soul, not an old god's.

 

3. The binder does not have to be more powerful than the bound. Morrigan can bind Urthemiel, even though she is far weaker than the old god both in power and knowledge. All that is required is that the spell be more advanced than the one who is bound by it, and I'd say Flemeth's (or Mythal's) ritual would be more advanced than a confused darkspawn magister. It is why he wanted Calpernia or Samson to drink from the well after all, and he had his own binding ready to combat Mythal's, which he would only be able to use on someone else. As for needing to learn Corypheus' nature, that is probably true. For that I would say researching the Architect's works or seeking the Architect himself (if he was let live) would have made for a great storyline related quest.
 

4. The only reason given for that is because any Grey Warden who gets close enough to strike the final blow ends up getting mind controlled, or at least is overwhelmed with the want to let him live. This suggestion of mine would have the Warden's soul be controlled by a necromancer, which would then control the body, thus blocking any commands from Corypheus.

[Dai Grepher]

It can't? Says who?

 

The day after the Inquisition finds Skyhold, sure, too weak to stand. By the time Corypheus knows that the Inquisition has survived, pinpoints Skyhold and gets troops in position to attack? By then months would have passed, and Skyhold would be strong enough to either hold them off or cost Corypheus a very very great deal.

 

This is all assuming Corypheus has any real intention of attacking the Inquisition, which he does not. He attacked Haven for two reasons. First, he was angry that the Inquisition got one of his armies. He suffered a loss and had to answer. But more importantly, he attacked Haven to get the Mark off the Herald. Something he concluded it was impossible to do. With his power demonstrated by destroying Haven and the anchor unrecoverable, he has no need to go toe to toe with the Inquisition. He certainly has no reason to suspect that they are a threat.

 

Let's not forget that the only reason the Inquisition is a threat to Corypheus is because they know exactly what he is going to do. Either the Inquisitor saw the future or the Inquisitor met someone who spent weeks/months hanging out with Corypheus' forces while capable of mind reading. Whichever it is, the Inquisition knows exactly what Corypheus has planned and is able to insert themselves into everything he is up to.

 

If not for knowledge the Inquisition had no reasonable way to have obtained, by the time they figured out their next move it would have been too late to stop Corypheus' plans. Orlais would have fallen and Corypheus would have a demon army. Game over.

 

So Corypheus would, at best, have to devote significant resources to destroying Skyhold all for no real strategic gain. At worst, he would spent almost everything he has directly confronting an enemy he has no reason to fight.

 

If you think about it, Corypheus could have killed himself, possessed a Grey Warden in Skyhold, and then attacked suddenly from within, while also controlling all other Grey Wardens in Skyhold. Or even if they were exiled, he still could have sent a Grey Warden in wearing plain clothes like he did with the Venatori spies. Though I agree that the dragon probably wouldn't have done much good against the stone walls. Would have sure made a mess of the garden though.

 

Corypheus: Burn the Inquisitor's potted plants!

 

Inquisitor: NO! NOT THE ELFROOT!!!

 

He had reason to attack. It was the only force that could stop him, and indeed it was stopping him again and again (especially if you played the optional areas). Plus, "I will not suffer even an unknowing rival. You must die."

 

Actually, that's only half right. They had no way of knowing about Celene. But, the Wardens at Adamant can always be learned about through Hawke and the Warden contact. The demon army is the real threat. Without the Inquisition at the palace, Orlais simply would have been chaotic until the Council of Heralds stepped in. A terrible outcome to be sure, but not vital to Corypheus' success.

 

Yeah but it isn't like Corypheus was on a deadline. He had all the time in the world to find an eluvian and the Well of Sorrows, and he had to wait for Calpernia to prepare herself anyway. Besides, the Venatori were infiltrating Skyhold, so it isn't like the Inquisition went ignored by Corypheus. Plus, the plot at Adamant was being carried out for Corypheus by Erimond. The plot at Halamshiral being carried out by Florienne. And the Venatori and Red Templars were still searching for the Temple of Mythal. So what the heck was Corypheus doing all that time? He could have been attacking Skyhold day after day keeping the Inquisition in a constant state of battle.

[Dai Grepher]

Remember that confused old man we fought in Legacy? The one that said "what waking dream is this?"

He's still there, behind all the layers of pageantry and bluster. He's a man in the throes of something worse than an existential crisis. Not only did he find heaven empty, he found it blighted. While most existential crises center around "there are no gods, and the universe is indifferent", his crisis is "there are no gods, and the universe is malicious." In his mind, not only is Thedas facing the universe alone, they're facing a cruel and evil universe alone.

He concluded that the world would be better if it had a god. He certainly felt better back when he thought there were gods.

That's why, even after all his attempts at making himself a god, he still calls out to Dumat at the end. He doesn't want to be a god, he wants there to be a god. If the only way he can achieve that is by roleplaying a god, so be it, but being a god is not his ultimate goal.

So he needs the pomp, he needs the pageantry, he needs the monologues. It's a critical part of his plan. In order to call his plan a success, he must be not just a god, but a highly visible, interventionist god.

And I think deep down he knows it's all a sham, but he doesn't know what else to do.

 

Eh, I think he was just raised to believe in and trust the old gods, and he felt betrayed by them. So he struck out on his own after regaining some of his senses. But at the end, when he realized the Inquisitor beat him, that's when he had no choice but to call on his "gods" again. He simply had nothing left.
 

[Dai Grepher]

What if it was Cory that they took the blood from in the first place to create the Grey Wardens? What if that was why they imprisoned him, because the blood of an Archdeamon had to be hard to come by. Honestly, how would they have gotten Dumat's blood before the first Grey Wardens killed him?

 

They killed the archdemon before that, and it was reborn in the nearest darkspawn. They probably just extracted the blood from the first dead archdemon corpse, or perhaps the second corpse.
 

[SandiKay0]

I'm just saying, there must've been A LOT of blighted Dumat blood around. Not hard to come by when it leaves behind multiple corpses that size.

I was thinking how he disinigrated and reformed. But I doubt Dumat died the same way. But it still makes me wonder if the grey wardens used Cory between the blights.

[Heimdall]

They killed the archdemon before that, and it was reborn in the nearest darkspawn. They probably just extracted the blood from the first dead archdemon corpse, or perhaps the second corpse.
 

Probably several.  They must have quite a stockpile seeing as every warden throughout Thedas for the last thousand years has drunk a drop of Archdemon blood.

[Heimdall]

I was thinking how he disinigrated and reformed. But I doubt Dumat died the same way. But it still makes me wonder if the grey wardens used Cory between the blights.

I doubt it, according to legacy, merely approaching Corypheus was just about impossible without being influenced by him.  How would they get to him to use his blood?

[BSpud]

I was thinking how he disinigrated and reformed. But I doubt Dumat died the same way. But it still makes me wonder if the grey wardens used Cory between the blights.

 

The disintegration/explosion was that ancient elven ward's doing, I believe. Did Cory disintegrate in Legacy? I don't remember him doing so. Not that he and an archdemon would necessarily die the same way, yeah.

 

As for keeping archdemon blood from spoiling... perhaps mixing it with lyrium? Alistair in Origins says lyrium is a part of the formula, though he could be wrong (he didn't know about the archdemon's blood part, just darkspawn's).

[Daerog]

Also, Cory is supposedly all blight. The darkspawn are made up of the blight, and the Seven were the first darkspawn.

 

Broodmothers, Grey Wardens, Dragon Thralls, Archdemons... they are all ghouls, in the sense that they are creatures that are infected by the blight, not made wholly of it.

 

Archdemon blood is different than Cory's, in that it is a Great Dragon (or Superior Dragon or Old God or whatever) that is infected with the blight. Dragons have a resistance to the blight as discovered in Inquisition, so the Wardens probably take on that resistant property from the infected dragon blood (like a vaccine). Cory's blood can't help with that. Wardens are similar to reavers.

[Dai Grepher]

Probably several.  They must have quite a stockpile seeing as every warden throughout Thedas for the last thousand years has drunk a drop of Archdemon blood.

 

Yeah but I was referring specifically to Archdemon Dumat.

 

Also, I read somewhere, maybe in a codex, maybe just on the unreliable wiki, that in absence of archdemon blood, regular darkspawn blood can be magically enhanced to act in the same way as archdemon blood for the Joining.

[Heimdall]

Yeah but I was referring specifically to Archdemon Dumat.

 

Also, I read somewhere, maybe in a codex, maybe just on the unreliable wiki, that in absence of archdemon blood, regular darkspawn blood can be magically enhanced to act in the same way as archdemon blood for the Joining.

I think I heard something like that too.  It would seem to cheapen the uniqueness of Archdemons, so i kinda hope not.  It seems like something a writer threw in when they realized how difficult it would be to make Archdemon blood last the centuries for the whole order.

[kukumburr]

What would happen if you used ancient darkspawn magister blood instead of Archdemon blood?

[Mr.House]

If he is invincible, he sucks trying to destroy the world.

Yet he came the closes to destroying it. Dumat can stick it.

[Althaz]

As explained by Morrigan, the only reason Corypheus' body surf ability can be disrupted is because he 'invested a portion of his being' into making the false Archdemon. This really brings up an uncomfortable notion, that Corypheus would have been effectively immortal had he not made the false Archdemon, since his body surf ability has no known maximum range and can be done with any blighted body. 

 

If this is the case, could the Inquisitor really have benefited from divine providence? That the Maker's hand ensured that Corypheus will inevitably have created the Red Lyrium Dragon and therefore will inevitably have a fatal weakness?

 

Coryfish was only immortal *because* he had made the dragon his horcrux invested part of himself into the dragon. That's what gave him his ability to survive the destruction of the body he was inhabiting. This is explained in the game, post Well of Sorrows.

[actionhero112]

Dumb plot device. Kryptonite villains are the worst type of villains.

 

It's like that kid in preschool who always chose to be invincible when you were playing pretend. Todd you're a dick. 

 

If Cory had any foresight whatsoever, Thedas would be demontown by now. You milk that invincibility crap for as long as you can. 

[The Hierophant]

Yet he came the closes to destroying it. Dumat can stick it.

Tbh they're both awful. One is a senile old man who's eternally cursed to fail, while the other is Falkor's meth addicted cousin.

[Mr.House]

Coryfish was only immortal *because* he had made the dragon his horcrux invested part of himself into the dragon. That's what gave him his ability to survive the destruction of the body he was inhabiting. This is explained in the game, post Well of Sorrows.

Um no, he is able to body jump waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the dragon and the fact that the wardens could not truly kill him and had to lock him up and even had to distance themselves from him was very telling. All the dragon did was allow him to be killed.

[Xcorpyo]

I know by now to have no expectations about the end battle with a seemingly invincible enemy that seem to not only lose any common sense(if it had any to begin with), but it actively trying to let you win.

 

Learned my lesson from Origins. You win only because Archy 5.0 suddenly decides he can’t feel GW anymore, flies on the only path that could allow a GW to jump on it’s back, continues to stay inside the city while the GW was failing to kill it, then the GW fall off it’s back and miraculously lands on it’s wing and manages to severely injure said wing before falling off, thus making him grounded, in one of the few zones not filled with darkspawn. And the rest is history.

Really lucky break, since the GW had no plan whatsoever to bring it on the ground. Not even one line comment about having archers or ballistae aiming for it’s wing, if he deigned to enter the city in the first place.

 

 

In DA2 I was half expecting Meredith to trip over and impale herself on her sword. And she kind of does that when she uses enough juice that she’s turned into red lyrium(?!?) by her own weapon.

 

 

And DAI.

 

Cory has the Inq by the (balls)neck, but for some reason  decides not to kill him and thus release the Anchor so he could try the ritual again.

 

Or he could just walk into Skyhold, kill 100 people, get killed, resurrect again, go into Skyhold and kill another 100 people until they kill him again, rinse and repeat.

Or, if Skyhold has some sort of magical barrier that keeps darkspawn outside, just get a huge rock three time the castle’s size and drop it on it. Repeatedly. Or just blow up the area under the castle(magically or not) until the foundation is weakened and the city crumbles.

Or have more than one Horcrux, don’t know if there is a limit. And even if there is, I’m sure an ancient Magister with godlike power and an impressive amount of magical knowledge can hedge his bets a little.

 

But no, he has to bring his only Horcrux into battle, then ties up 99% of his magical strength juggling and entire mountain worth of rocks for no reason other than he can do it(Maker knows he doesn’t use them to crush the Inq into paste with them).;

 

 

And at the end, in a Corypheus level of idiocy, the Inq is sending his soul into the Fade, because it makes for an awesome oneliner. Honestly, the ways this could go wrong…

 

 

Cory ‘died’ only because the plot demanded it. And in answer to the thread title, I believe that he had some sort of Horcrux by that time, even if the GW didn’t know about it. After he escaped, he moved it into a dragon to copy his gods of old. After all, he would have found it hilarious to have an High Dragon(the form of his Old Gods) as a pet. 

[Dai Grepher]

^Yeah. And I have this comic strip idea in my head with the Architect's soul, Utha's soul, and Corypheus' soul all sitting together in the Fade. Then the Architect asks, "Why didn't you just infect the Inquisitor with the taint?", and Corypheus with a "!" above his head and a surprised expression on his face, while Utha just looks at him plainly.

[AntiChri5]

whatever happened to "I will not suffer even an unknowing rival, you must die"? Of course Corypheus had motivation to kill the Herald and the Inquisition, especially when what happened at Haven proved the inquisition to be a very credible threat.

Plus this is not some stupid siege scenario in which Corypheus sends waves of mooks trekking up the mountain only for them to die in droves. It's about Corypheus himself plus his archdemon kicking down the doors themselves. And it's virtually fail-proof because the two of them are just THAT op. Corypheus himself is immortal and magically powerful, so why not just try and kill a few hundred people before getting killed and then resurrecting somewhere? It's not like his resurrection has a limitation. And even if Corypheus is busy elsewhere, even the archdemon alone can make things hell for the Inquisition. Up until morrigan/guardian of mythal grounds the archdemon, the thing is damn near invincible. unless skyhold happens to have AA missiles or a crap load of archers, the archdemon can do severe damage without the threat of retaliation. Even if the walls are too strong for the archdemon to damage, Corypheus can just camp it outside the fortress to essentially starve them out. Collapse the mountain path or cause an avalanche, and you cut off reinforcements and supplies into skyhold. Even in the event that the entire player party comes out with superb dragon-slaying weapons or something, the archdemon can fly and can just leave if things get hairy. effective raid for virtually no cost there! Worst case scenario, corypheus loses his dragon, his essence comes back into him and he takes a couple days nap, then finds another high dragon to corrupt. meanwhile skyhold spends additional funds to rebuild, picks up the corpses and morale takes a hit. Rinse and repeat, and corypheus wins.

Corypheus said that when the Herald was standing before them helpless, weak and alone. Not when they were in one of the strongest fortresses in the world with a strong army to hold it. The two are very different situations.

 

The battle at Haven proved the Inquisition to be a credible threat? You mean the one where the Inquisition was utterly crushed and quickly resorted to having their greatest asset hold off the enemy alone while they destroy their own stronghold in a desperate attempt to cover their complete and total rout?

 

You are vastly overstating the strength of both Corypheus and his pet. The Inquisitor kills both, one after the other in a single day with the assistance of at most three people and a dragon (that they have also proven capable of defeating) while on the offensive. From an incredibly strong defensive position, backed up by the thousands of soldiers, mages and archers of the Inquisition? Corypheus and his pet would have a serious struggle to even survive. A half dead Clarel, alone, manages to hurt his pet. Granted, she is a very senior Warden (and therefore likely an incredibly good battlemage) and it's implied she uses her blood as a source of power, but still.

 

At the Arbour Wilds, Corypheus loses the Well but drives off the Inquisitor. His army is not yet defeated, but on it's way there. He still has himself and his dragon and the Inquisitions is without what they eventually use to counter both (Dragon/Morrigan, Inquisitor, Inquisitor). If he truly is so powerful that the Inquisition forces pose no threat to both himself and his pet, he has no reason not to join the battle. Not to turn things around, rally his forces. But he doesn't. He flees. The proudest individual in human history accepts a loss and abandons his only remaining resource rather then fight for it.

 

Because there is a limit to his capabilities. Yes, he can respawn into another Grey Warden. Until all the Wardens in the area are dead and he winds up on the other side of the continent. Remember, for all his power, Corypheus has lost before. He got contained once and can be again. He has more then one weakness. For all his posturing, he isn't a god.