258 réponses à ce sujet

[Tielis]

 

That goes both ways. If Abelas or any returning but possibly dead character is a companion, even an optional companion, people who didn't like that character are being 'punished', such as it were, by having that character take up a companion slot that could have gone to an original character they could have liked.

 

I don't have a hate-on for Abelas, but I do have a serious hate-on for Michel, and if he ended up taking up a companion slot that could have gone to a new concept, I would be livid.

 

I gave you an option about how it would work.  Also, you are very rarely forced to take any companion with you.  THERE is your choice.

 

What you are saying is that I guess I should just play every game in the future as a psycho killer, after all, if *somebody* kills a character in the game, there is no chance that they're ever coming back.

 

Seriously, why do they bother putting that choice in if that's the case?

[AresKeith]

I gave you an option about how it would work.  Also, you are very rarely forced to take any companion with you.  THERE is your choice.

 

What you are saying is that I guess I should just play every game in the future as a psycho killer, after all, if *somebody* kills a character in the game, there is no chance that they're ever coming back.

 

Seriously, why do they bother putting that choice in if that's the case?

 

Except that isn't what he's saying, past characters who can die should not return as future companions

 

But returning as NPCs is another matter

[Babelas]

They think Abelas is the same type of creature as Mythal. 

Don't put words in my mouth or assume for one second you know what I think. I can give an explanation of why I believe the Elvhen differ in death compared to other races in Thedas. But you seem to believe you already know what I think so there is little point.

[Tielis]

Except that isn't what he's saying, past characters who can die should not return as future companions

 

But returning as NPCs is another matter

 

  Well then.

[Former_Fiend]

I gave you an option about how it would work.  Also, you are very rarely forced to take any companion with you.  THERE is your choice.

 

What you are saying is that I guess I should just play every game in the future as a psycho killer, after all, if *somebody* kills a character in the game, there is no chance that they're ever coming back.

 

Seriously, why do they bother putting that choice in if that's the case?

 

You know, the funny thing is I actually agree with your mentality to an extent.

 

Over in the Mass Effect: Andromeda forums I've argued very passionately for there to be a DA Keep style system set up to import decisions regarding the genophage cure and the fate of the quarians, geth, and rachni, because I feel those species being excluded on the premise of "they could have been wiped out" is essentially establishing the same as establishing that they were wiped out as canon.

 

But this isn't the same situation. I have no problem with Abelas or Michel returning. I haven't killed either of them off in any playthrough yet, despite my hatred of the latter.

 

I have a problem with them being companions, though. Assuming nine companions, if someone imports a world save where they are dead, they just went down from nine potential companions to seven. That is being punished for a choice they made in a previous game where they couldn't have reasonably predicted that this would be the outcome. If Michel was to be our main tanking companion, that could potentially screw with their entire party make up and effectiveness.

[Ardent Blossom]

I have a problem with them being companions, though. Assuming nine companions, if someone imports a world save where they are dead, they just went down from nine potential companions to seven. That is being punished for a choice they made in a previous game where they couldn't have reasonably predicted that this would be the outcome. If Michel was to be our main tanking companion, that could potentially screw with their entire party make up and effectiveness.

 

It doesn't have to mean you'd have fewer companions if Abelas or Michel is dead. I'm a fan of not every player character having the same companions. If you let Ashley die in Mass Effect you get Kaidan instead in Mass Effect 3. Or you could think of it like what Obsidian did in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If you were a male PC you got Hand Maiden as a companion. If you were female you got Disciple. If you were dark side you got Hanharr. If you were light side you got Mira. I know it's more expensive, but it really adds to replayability. It makes your experience as a player feel more unique. I would be over the moon if Bioware did this with Dragon Age.
 

 
 

[Tielis]

It doesn't have to mean you'd have fewer companions if Abelas or Michel is dead. I'm a fan of not every player character having the same companions. If you let Ashley die in Mass Effect you get Kaidan instead in Mass Effect 3. Or you could think of it like what Obsidian did in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If you were a male PC you got Hand Maiden as a companion. If you were female you got Disciple. If you were dark side you got Hanharr. If you were light side you got Mira. I know it's more expensive, but it really adds to replayability. It makes your experience as a player feel more unique. I would be over the moon if Bioware did this with Dragon Age.

 

I'm out of likes so have a instead.

[AresKeith]

It doesn't have to mean you'd have fewer companions if Abelas or Michel is dead. I'm a fan of not every player character having the same companions. If you let Ashley die in Mass Effect you get Kaidan instead in Mass Effect 3. Or you could think of it like what Obsidian did in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If you were a male PC you got Hand Maiden as a companion. If you were female you got Disciple. If you were dark side you got Hanharr. If you were light side you got Mira. I know it's more expensive, but it really adds to replayability. It makes your experience as a player feel more unique. I would be over the moon if Bioware did this with Dragon Age.

 

 

It would be even more expensive to do and puts a dent in the budget compared to those games because in Mass Effect Ashley and Kaidan replace each other in ME3 and with KoTOR 2 that happens within the same game 

[Former_Fiend]

It doesn't have to mean you'd have fewer companions if Abelas or Michel is dead. I'm a fan of not every player character having the same companions. If you let Ashley die in Mass Effect you get Kaidan instead in Mass Effect 3. Or you could think of it like what Obsidian did in Knights of the Old Republic 2. If you were a male PC you got Hand Maiden as a companion. If you were female you got Disciple. If you were dark side you got Hanharr. If you were light side you got Mira. I know it's more expensive, but it really adds to replayability. It makes your experience as a player feel more unique. I would be over the moon if Bioware did this with Dragon Age.
 

 
 

 

I'm also against that because that eats into word count and disk space. Redundant characters are something I'm hoping Bioware cuts down on.

 

Also, this kind of sets a dangerous precedent. Characters like Michel and Abelas are fine, but over all fairly minor players in the game with little to no indication they could have larger roles to play later on. In future games I don't want to have to worry about whether I should pull out the murder knife on random carta thug #4 on the off chance a portion of the fan base latches onto them.

[Tielis]

Also, this kind of sets a dangerous precedent. Characters like Michel and Abelas are fine, but over all fairly minor players in the game with little to no indication they could have larger roles to play later on. In future games I don't want to have to worry about whether I should pull out the murder knife on random carta thug #4 on the off chance a portion of the fan base latches onto them.

 

But isn't that what roleplaying is all about?  The thing is, with the Keep they have made it even easier to play a homicidal maniac, because you don't even have to play through anymore to make those choices.  Don't like Michel and he's going to be in the next game?  Simple, just ax him in the Keep, et voila.

 

BioWare constantly brags about how they give us choices, but it's only the illusion of choice since everything has to be homogenized in order to save money on game development.  I'm not okay with that.

[Former_Fiend]

But isn't that what roleplaying is all about?  The thing is, with the Keep they have made it even easier to play a homicidal maniac, because you don't even have to play through anymore to make those choices.  Don't like Michel and he's going to be in the next game?  Simple, just ax him in the Keep, et voila.

 

BioWare constantly brags about how they give us choices, but it's only the illusion of choice since everything has to be homogenized in order to save money on game development.  I'm not okay with that.

 

I like our choices to have consequences, but I like those consequences to be reasonable and, to some extent, foreseeable. And for the primary impact of those consequences to fall on the character that made them. 

 

Also, as much as I absolutely loathe Michel, the fact is that my main character wouldn't accept Imshael's deal and kill him. I do not want to be punished for playing a good character by having to deal with that insufferable chevalier in the next game, and I don't want to turn my noble inquisitor into a demon-dealing murderer to avoid it.

[Sifr]

I don't have a hate-on for Abelas, but I do have a serious hate-on for Michel, and if he ended up taking up a companion slot that could have gone to a new concept, I would be livid.

 

I still need to finish Maked Empire, but does Michel get over his internalised racism towards his own elven heritage by the end of the book?

 

The projection and constant racial slurs he throws towards elves are probably one of the few things that make him unlikeable, even if we're generous and say that Michel is only doing it to maintain the illusion he's fully human and fit in with the (rather bigoted) Orlesian high society.

[Former_Fiend]

I still need to finish Maked Empire, but does Michel get over his internalised racism towards his own elven heritage by the end of the book?

 

The projection and constant racial slurs he throws towards elves are probably one of the few things that make him unlikeable, even if we're generous and say that Michel is only doing it to maintain the illusion he's fully human and fit in with the (rather bigoted) Orlesian high society.

 

It's been a while since I've read it but I believe he does.

 

That has nothing to do with the reason I hate him, though.

[Dabrikishaw]

It's been a while since I've read it but I believe he does.

 

That has nothing to do with the reason I hate him, though.

If you don't mind sharing, why do you dislike him?

[Former_Fiend]

If you don't mind sharing, why do you dislike him?

 

Honestly it's not something that's easy to articulate. It's a deep, guttural feeling.

 

A large part of it came from how I thought the chevaliers should be represented; I felt they should be more form than substance. More bark than bite. They should be capable warriors but no where near as good as the hype that surrounded them or as good as they believed themselves to be.

 

Michel was a walking demonstration that no, they really are that good. And he was smug and self righteous about it.  

[Dabrikishaw]

Honestly it's not something that's easy to articulate. It's a deep, guttural feeling.

 

A large part of it came from how I thought the chevaliers should be represented; I felt they should be more form than substance. More bark than bite. They should be capable warriors but no where near as good as the hype that surrounded them or as good as they believed themselves to be.

 

Michel was a walking demonstration that no, they really are that good. And he was smug and self righteous about it.  

Alright, thanks for sharing.

[Tielis]

Honestly it's not something that's easy to articulate. It's a deep, guttural feeling.

 

A large part of it came from how I thought the chevaliers should be represented; I felt they should be more form than substance. More bark than bite. They should be capable warriors but no where near as good as the hype that surrounded them or as good as they believed themselves to be.

 

Michel was a walking demonstration that no, they really are that good. And he was smug and self righteous about it.  

 

I agree with you, but I also believe in character progression.  I felt that at the end of TME he might have been coming around.  And I haven't met him yet in game, but I hear his cameo is very brief.

[Sifr]

Honestly it's not something that's easy to articulate. It's a deep, guttural feeling.

 

A large part of it came from how I thought the chevaliers should be represented; I felt they should be more form than substance. More bark than bite. They should be capable warriors but no where near as good as the hype that surrounded them or as good as they believed themselves to be.

 

Michel was a walking demonstration that no, they really are that good. And he was smug and self righteous about it.  

 

I second this.

 

The way Masked Empire seemed to change Chevaliers from the bunch of over-privileged Orlesian knights partial to droit du siegneur  that we'd heard about previously, to an elite bunch of warriors with a strict code of honour and ninja-like reflexes, bothered me for the exact same reason.

 

It's like if every Grey Warden was actually the memetic badass most people think they are supposed to be... it just breaks the suspension of disbelief.

[Former_Fiend]

I agree with you, but I also believe in character progression.  I felt that at the end of TME he might have been coming around.  And I haven't met him yet in game, but I hear his cameo is very brief.

 

Honestly, I completely missed him the first time around.

 

Anyway, we're getting off topic. 

 

I wouldn't mind if they decided to include a chevalier as one of our warrior companions, though that wouldn't be my first pick, as demonstrated by the list I put up a few pages back. Actually wouldn't be my second or third pick, either, as I'd take a dwarf warrior or an avvar/chasind/oth barbarian over a chevalier, but I obviously have a personal bias on that count. 

 

But, just like I suggested "Not-Abelas" as an idea for one of the mages, I'd be fine with a "Not-Michel" among one of the warriors.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Since Dragon Age parties tend to be more multicultural than the Planeteers I'm guessing were going to have a Rivaini shaman, an Antivan duelist, an Tevinter slave, a dwarf from Kal-Sharok, a member of the old elves that escaped the Temple of Mythal and real Tal-vashoth this time.

 

Oh, and Calpernia, Marius, Mae and Scout Harding might show up in there too. 

[Former_Fiend]

I think we've had our Tevinter slave with Fenris and we've had our Altus with Dorian. I want to see a laetan and a soporati in the party.

[d1ta]

Party in DA4 would include cakes, party hats and 'spirits' (if you invite Cole, LoL)

Anyho, I'm one of Abelas' fan, but totally be okay if we got another Ancient Elf that's not him. Prefer him to be the 'gentle giant' kinda sort. Arcane warior (but preferably a Reaver or as a main tank character)

As for Michel .. well, never liked the dude (probably because being a mom that knows the pain of carrying a baby for 9mo, going through the pain of birthing and the challenges of raising a kid, all of that, only to have your son be EMBARASSED of me after he got a better future? Oh wow. The sting, man.. it's incomparrable to any kind of pain) But if he does make a return, I sure hope they'd make a good character progression about that. Or at the very least have him acknowledge his half elven heritage to the main protag later on.
Or maybe just have Sifr's idea, we get Choice!Michel if we axed him in DAI (though not planning to take this route no matter how I dislike the guy..) .. and please make a do over for his face, since it's just so generic in DAI

[Uccio]

I'd rather not do a resurrection and considering the response to Leliana's revival I doubt Bioware is eager to court that again.

 

Of those on the list, the ones I find most likely and most interesting are Lace Harding and Calpernia.

 

And I don't want more than the two returning characters, so things I'd like to see/would find interesting:

 

A Rivaini Seer

 

The Formless One (The last living Forbidden One, could be interesting to meet one that isn't trying to kill us, though I'd expect him to be much less benevolent than Cole.  Could be any class)

 

Tevinter Mage that isn't a "good tevinter" like Dorian

 

Tevinter non-mage that isn't a rebel against the system (I've grown very tired of those characters)

 

Tal-Vashoth qunari that despises the Qun

 

Maybe a dragon cultist?  Could be an interesting conversation.

 

Exactly, I want to see a proud Tevinter mage/Magister as a companion (or the pc), who isn´t a apologetic whiner. 

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

I don't have a hate-on for Abelas, but I do have a serious hate-on for Michel, and if he ended up taking up a companion slot that could have gone to a new concept, I would be livid.

You lalways have option not to take companion with you or even kill him.

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

I have a problem with them being companions, though.

Fenris can be killed to bu in universe he is alive- DG includes him in his new book.

Sten can be killed but he is in comics.

Why Michel shouldn't exist in Thedas  just for his haters? Developers should really work in the game now not thinging about fan endless love\hate.