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[Ryzaki]

 

It's really bs and ironically the Saarath you fight in the end of traspasser proves them wrong.

 

If only he had killed Viddasala. I'd laughed so hard.

[leaguer of one]

1. I can argue it, unless there is proof. Got any? Were the warships in the deep water? Was the Arishok positioned in Amaranthine ready to take the Bannorn? Was Tallis lying in wait to cut out Choir Boy's singing voice? Or did Vidasala just have a bunch of Vidathari following her orders to put some barrels in different places?

 

2. No, Iron Bull's nature is one of observation and cold, logical thinking. His intellect doesn't (or shouldn't) go out the window just because he believes in the Qun. He outright says that the Vidasala would never let a serebaas within a thousand feet of lyrium. Yet, she was feeding them lyrium. This is a direct violation of the Qun. He should have known that her actions would not be accepted by the Antaam, especially if they were unilateral, but even if they were orders.

 

Wrong. The Chargers can live, and he will still side with Vidasala if you did not complete Demands of the Qun. So the Chargers have nothing to do with this discussion. Besides, this isn't about the Qun either. It's about observing the facts that are right in front of your face.

 

I personally knew that he was going to fight me (as did my Inquisitor). I personally wanted him to fight me (though my Inquisitor did not). In fact, it was one of my requests after seeing the trailer. I like the fact that he fought me because I personally wanted to kill him. My Hero also has his inevitable battle with his kadan, the Arishok in the near future as well, and he will triumph in that battle just like my Inquisitor did in his. But their case will be a proper one, where the Qunari are officially at war with the south again. But the Inquisitor and Hissrad's case? Terrible. I'm fine with Hissrad choosing to fight my Inquisition. What I don't like are the circumstances under which he made that choice. I believe that Hissrad's character, in logical observation of my Inquisitor's character and actions (siding with templars, restoring the circles, protecting people from demons, not drinking from the Well, not being involved with the current situation with the elven spirits), would have chosen to ignore the Qun-violating Vidasala and side with the people who always win.

 

It would make sense for him. His role was to be a spy in the Inquisition. Siding with the Inquisitor in this fight would only gain more trust, thus securing his place there. It would also be a good backup plan for the Qunari when Vidasala's plans fall through.

1. There is proof . the entire trespasser dlc  is proof.

 

2.No, above all else if he still with the qun his nurture is to fallow the qun. Any other part of him are just tools he use to fallow the qun.

 

3.And you miss understand what i said about the chargers. The issue is about learn to live out side of the qun. He does not learn that if he lets the chargers die or you don't d his mission.

 

4. And no siding with the inquistion as it's about to close up shop would not do anything.  They have a plan to sweep the south in one go, of course a qun loyal Bull would side with the qun.

[leaguer of one]

If only he had killed Viddasala. I'd laughed so hard.

Except he broke of the control collar and he still gave everything to protector out of his own will.

 

The qunari fear of mages are bs.

[Dai Grepher]

You do understand these are people who casually let their soldiers die for the cause. At that point the full plan was over. they could not sweep the north. The only thing they could do is try and kill Solas  and used every soldier they had to slow you down till they did. Solas was the issue at that point and you were slowly dying. Bull knows this and comes into the fight just to slow you down so the mark effects you more. Keep the fight going long enough and the mark would do their job for them. The fly in the soup was Solas' recharge back to the powers of an elven god.

 

That plan would not let them sweep the north even if successful. They were targeting all the wrong heads of state. Nothing would have changed except a few leaders. And you're right, their plan to blow people up was already thwarted by that point. Leliana sent word to all the proper people and the barrels were removed. Not only that, but now the gattlock formula is known to the Inquisition! They have gattlock now. Thanks Vidasala. So again, why would Hissrad side with Vidasala at this point? She failed, even if she had been acting on official orders, she failed her mission, she failed in her role, she failed the Qun.

 

Oh, it's about Solas now? Well that's fine, but now you're changing the issue here. And there's no evidence Hissrad knew anything about Solas at this point. Vidasala doesn't drop Solas' name until after you have already killed Hissrad. So he couldn't have been delaying the Inquisitor for the reasons you stated. At best, he only knew the mark was getting worse. So what? And he knew for a fact that you weren't working with the elven spirits.

 

So yeah, the circumstances of his choice to side with Vidasala made no sense. That's coming from someone who wanted to fight and kill Hissrad in this DLC.

[QueenCrow]

Jesus christ I can't find that explanation of the tarot cards of Bulls post demands of the Qun. It was a damn good post. Why didn't I book mark it? *kicks self*

 

You're right. It is. Sometimes authors do that. And it sucks (I'm a renegade (well renegon) player in Mass Effect. How do you think I felt?) And yeah you have him betray his people the Qun if you side with them. You have him betray his adopted family the Chargers if you do that. (and vice versa for the other choice).

 

The empathy of being betrayed and not respecting the character because he did the exact thing you should've expected of him? Sorry no that doesn't deserve empathy. That's sticking your hand in the fire and complaining that you got burned.

 

Are you suggesting that people should feel unswerving respect for The Iron Bull for his betrayal?  

 

From my point of view, the Chargers were sacrificed to facilitate an alliance between the Qunari and the Inquisition (and some interesting war table missions).  With that alliance broken, the Chargers' sacrifice is reduced to nothing.

 

But aside from the debate of Chargers vs. Qun choice, and speaking strictly of game play in an rpg, do you think that making one in game choice so obviously RIGHT as regards the consequences is really offering a choice?  

[Ryzaki]

Are you suggesting that people should feel unswerving respect The Iron Bull for his betrayal?  

 

From my point of view, the Chargers were sacrificed to facilitate an alliance between the Qunari and the Inquisition (and some interesting war table missions).  With that alliance broken, the Chargers' sacrifice is reduced to nothing.

 

But aside from the debate of Chargers vs. Qun choice, and speaking strictly of game play in an rpg, do you think that making one in game choice so obviously RIGHT as regards the consequences is really offering a choice?  

 

No but via my edit.

 

It's the special snowflake status of "well yeah he should let people he's know for far longer than I die for the Qun but how dare he do the same to me!" I kind of love how the actual reason Bull leaves the Qun is the chargers. And all this he betrayed me rage is lulzy as hell. Man Bull tells the player straight up what he's there for, the player does nothing but makes his loyalty more entrenched to the Qun...and still there's shock that he surprise surprise ended up doing his job because he's shock and surprise loyal to the Qun. Like it's fine for Bull to let people die for the Qun...but when it's their turn there's an issue.

 

You didn't lose respect for him you should've never had any in the first place because again some of the first things out of his mouth are what he's there for. "get close to the people in charge." it's like do people just play the game smashing space/escape or something? 

 

If the alliance is broken the chargers didn't do a sacrifice. So there's no an issue.

 

Yes. Because sometimes shock and surprise there are bad choices  you can make. All choices aren't evenly balanced to give an equal amount of good and bad outcomes. You sacrificed the chargers, and in exchange got the Qunari alliance during the base game (along with all the war missions and so on), the consequences of that is you lost Bull in Trespasser. My consequence for telling the Qunari to bugger off was not getting their alliance in the base game (along with their war missions and schems) but I got to keep Bull in Trespasser.

 

This is just a do you value Bull over the alliance thing. But no it's not like you get nothing at all from the alliance. You did. You just didn't get to keep Bull because you gave him no reason to stay with you over the Qun. Those are called consequences.

[Sui Causa]

How would allying with an organization that believes in brainwashing all of it's followers and killing anyone who does not conform to it's standards, that has a long term goal of invading and conquoring the known world to spread itself forcibly, ever be a good idea? How exactly did you think that choice would work out?

 

It played out exactly how the qun wanted it to play out. They say 'hey lets be friends we have a common goal.' You say 'sure.' Shock of shocks, the second the common goal is dealt with they turn on you because everything about you goes against the qun. Bonus points that when their plan fails they go 'LOL JUST KIDDING RIGHT GUYS WE'RE GOOD RIGHT?' And your Inquisitor is like 'Of course man it's no big deal we're still friends.'

 

Right. There's a good plan.

[leaguer of one]

Are you suggesting that people should feel unswerving respect for The Iron Bull for his betrayal?  

 

From my point of view, the Chargers were sacrificed to facilitate an alliance between the Qunari and the Inquisition (and some interesting war table missions).  With that alliance broken, the Chargers' sacrifice is reduced to nothing.

 

But aside from the debate of Chargers vs. Qun choice, and speaking strictly of game play in an rpg, do you think that making one in game choice so obviously RIGHT as regards the consequences is really offering a choice?  

Look at his terot  card if get him to stay with the qun...

 

 

No one is saying to recpect him for what he did...Just that you should of see it coming.

[Dai Grepher]

1. There is proof . the entire trespasser dlc  is proof.

 

2.No, above all else if he still with the qun his nurture is to fallow the qun. Any other part of him are just tools he use to fallow the qun.

 

3.And you miss understand what i said about the chargers. The issue is about learn to live out side of the qun. He does not learn that if he lets the chargers die or you don't d his mission.

 

4. And no siding with the inquistion as it's about to close up shop would not do anything.  They have a plan to sweep the south in one go, of course a qun loyal Bull would side with the qun.

 

1. No, the entire Trespasser DLC is proof of moon men actually. I can't point to any one example because the entire DLC is the proof.

 

2. Yeah, follow the Qun, not Vidasala who was not following the Qun.

 

3. Thanks for the correction. But as I wrote elsewhere, even if he becomes Tal-Vashoth and learns to live outside the Qun, I think there still should have been a set of circumstances where he can choose to go back to the Qun if he thinks the Inquisition should be stopped. And this isn't about the Qun either. It's should be about Vidasala's actions vs. the Inquisitors. Hers were anti-Qun. His were peaceful and orderly. Hissrad should have sided with the clear winners under those circumstances.

 

4. Who said the Inquisition would close up shop? And even if it were, so what? That's what the Qunari allegedly wanted, isn't it? And as you admitted in your last post, any plan to sweep the south, authorized or not, had already failed by that point anyway.

[Wulfram]

The romance epilogue card does seem a bit uncalled for. No one gives my Lavellan crap for banging Solas, even though he's still out there plotting to destroy the world.

[QueenCrow]

 

 

You didn't lose respect for him you should've never had any in the first place because again some of the first things out of his mouth are what he's there for. "get close to the people in charge." 

 

 

 

 

Well, there's something I can agree with you on wholeheartedly.

 

Honestly, even though I don't entirely share some of the feelings of disappointment expressed in this thread and others, I do understand them.

 

For my part, I recruited Bull once just to see what he was about and lost respect for him the minute he made me decide his important issue.  I respect thinking for oneself and making one's own decisions and the writers robbed Bull of that quality from the get-go.  Thereafter, I went with my gut feeling that inviting a spy and liar in wasn't a good idea (along with an unreasonable and unattractive personal repulsion to Qunari and the Qun) and an outlook that Bull is a healing potion hog in group.

 

I can still understand what other people are saying in this thread, why they made the decisions they made, and why they might call foul on some aspects of the game.

[Ryzaki]

Look at his terot  card if get him to stay with the qun...

 

 

No one is saying to recpect him for what he did...Just that you should of see it coming.

 

Not to mention the Keep. Bull's loyal to the qun image is the same as everyone else's Not Friends image.

[Dai Grepher]

It always baffled me that people forget that Bull's personal mission was always about him and not if you should make an alliance with the Qunari or not. It is his personal mission after all; so there ya go. Hell, Bull doesn't even like the idea of the alliance. He knows his own people (the Qunari) don't do alliances but tries to believe that they're serious, even when he knows better. And of course the Inquisition could use any help they can get.

 

He was plant there as a sleeper agent; and if you let the Chargers die, he commits fully to that role. The only reason why Bull hasn't left the Qun already being he's scared that without, he'll become savage like the Tal Vashoth he fought in Serehon and his biggest fear is madness. And being all WoT2 tells us about what went down and his PTSD it makes sense.

 

But he likes drinking, eating, and breaking beds; and grew to like the people and the freedom he had away from the Qun. He made a family for himself from a band of misfits and Krem happens to be his son Bestfriend.

 

And if you kill his family and his best friend; you're killing whatever linked him to the Iron Bull. The Iron Bull died with them; all that's left is Hissrad.

 

He is/was already Tal Vashoth but in name. The mission was whether to make it official or not. 

 

Not correct. Don't do Demands of the Qun. The Chargers live and yet Hissrad still sides with Vidasala. It's never about the Chargers.
 

[Sui Causa]

Iron Bull's personal quest gives you a chance to break him from the Qun. It's an important part of his character, because he can't be the Iron Bull unless you do break him from the Qun. The Chargers are symbolic of The Iron Bull and everything that carries to his character. You kill them, you are killing off every part of him that wasn't loyal to the Qun.

 

Remember Solas's quote to him? "I can't be disappointed by your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any."

 

The Qun is serious ****. It's not good and it doesn't make the world butterfly and rainbows. It mind breaks it's followers, chews them up and wears them down to the bone then tosses them out when they're done. If you didn't feel Bull was worth pulling from that, then there's nothing left of the Iron Bull by the time he rejoins us in Trespasser.

 

The way I see it, Iron Bull had spent 10 years getting **** on in Seheron for the Qun. He did the best he could in a shitty situation, he wanted to help people, he wanted to do good. The qunari worked him so hard they burnt him out, they drove him to consider suicide because he didn't know how else to go forward.

 

The Qun got enough out of the Iron Bull, in my opinion. It's time to give him a chance to be something of his own choosing.

[Ryzaki]

Well, there's something I can agree with you on wholeheartedly.

 

Honestly, even though I don't entirely share some of the feelings of disappointment expressed in this thread and others, I do understand them.

 

For my part, I recruited Bull once just to see what he was about and lost respect for him the minute he made me decide his important issue.  I respect thinking for oneself and making one's own decisions and the writers robbed Bull of that quality from the get-go.  Thereafter, I went with my gut feeling that inviting a spy and liar in wasn't a good idea (along with an unreasonable and unattractive personal repulsion to Qunari and the Qun) and an outlook that Bull is a healing potion hog in group.

 

I can still understand what other people are saying in this thread, why they made the decisions they made, and why they might call foul on some aspects of the game.

 

I'd understand them more...except Bull's whole quest is having him put people close to him (closer to him than the Inquisitor) underneath the Qun. It's just...bro why do you think he'd let his adoptive family die for the Qun but you are an exception?

 

Eh most of the inner circle does stuff like that. Dorian does it with his father (and it's even odder there because that's purely a personal affair. WTF Dorian), Cullen does it, Josephine does it, Leliana can do it (she can also no sell you which is lulzy), Sera does it to a point (with the nobility perk) even if you take too long she'll handle it herself, Cole does it, etc. But it makes sense Bull wouldn't blow the horn immediately because he did come there for an alliance. Once you say it's okay for him to put the Chargers over the Qun he does it immediately.

 

Oh god Bull maybe a potion hog (and only if you keep him 2Hd i just respec him S&S but Cole is soooooo much worse. Don't get me started whining about the trash tactics in this damn game. I can whine about that all day. So baaaaad. So baaaaaaaaaaad.)

 

This isn't really something to call foul on tho. It's not even a gotcha! scene. It's a train coming at you from 4 miles away that you can see and you never move to avoid it.

[leaguer of one]

That plan would not let them sweep the north even if successful. They were targeting all the wrong heads of state. Nothing would have changed except a few leaders. And you're right, their plan to blow people up was already thwarted by that point. Leliana sent word to all the proper people and the barrels were removed. Not only that, but now the gattlock formula is known to the Inquisition! They have gattlock now. Thanks Vidasala. So again, why would Hissrad side with Vidasala at this point? She failed, even if she had been acting on official orders, she failed her mission, she failed in her role, she failed the Qun.

 

Oh, it's about Solas now? Well that's fine, but now you're changing the issue here. And there's no evidence Hissrad knew anything about Solas at this point. Vidasala doesn't drop Solas' name until after you have already killed Hissrad. So he couldn't have been delaying the Inquisitor for the reasons you stated. At best, he only knew the mark was getting worse. So what? And he knew for a fact that you weren't working with the elven spirits.

 

So yeah, the circumstances of his choice to side with Vidasala made no sense. That's coming from someone who wanted to fight and kill Hissrad in this DLC.

1. Yes it would success. They targeted every noble house and in Thedas the nobles control and man the army. if no nobles were around, there would be no way to organize an army to feild in time. The army of southern thedas would be too  disordered to make a proper fight. That was the entire point of the operation. They even tell you this in the dlc. And the only reason it failed was because of Solas.

 

2.And ofcouse Bull would no about Solas. Do have any Idea what a qun loyal bull is doing for the past 2 years? He's not stuck in shyhold. The qun can contact him in any ways about the plan. Even then he know in trespasser the inquisition may taken apart the the inquisitor is dying. The fact the Inquisitor is being killed slowly  by the mark they is reason enough to slow them down.

 

You trying to make it not make sense to support your delusions. Sorry but facts are fact.

[BSpud]

 

 

Mean.  Like, control freak mean.  And really unnecessary. 

 

I'm sorry but that's awesome. Wow. Ouch!

[Dai Grepher]

Then it should be based off the decisions you make and not approval. (I.E. Free mages should auto flag him). It shouldn't matter how high your approval is in that matter. But that's really ignoring the fact that why would Bull care about the danger to the south as a loyal qunari? As long as it's not a threat to the Qunari it's a non issue. And the PC doesn't make any decisions that harm the qunari til Bull's quest.

 

The Chargers are the catalyst for him abandoning the Qun. If it wasn't for them him blowing that horn would've been a non issue. That's the point. He abandons the qun for them. Taking them out of the equation means he has no reason to leave the Qun.
 

 

Right, but by "approval" I meant that he approves of what the Inquisition stands for personally, not the gameplay mechanic of approval. So yes, plot flags.

 

Because the South is what the Qunari intend to "liberate", is it not? And wasn't Vidasala the one talking about the "gentle path"? That means keep the South in peace and safety while converting them swiftly.

 

If Hissrad only cares about the Qunari, then saving the dreadnaught should prove that the Inquisition is not a threat to the Qunari.

 

That's wrong. If you don't do the quest at all, the Chargers still live and yet he sides with Vidasala. So even if he has the Chargers, he still sides with Vidasala. And my point this whole time is that Vidasala was acting against the Qun. So Hissrad should not have sided with her except under the circumstances of the Inquisitor being a DANGEROUS threat to the south or the Qunari. Meaning, even a Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull should have sided with Vidasala in that case.

[Dai Grepher]

Okay, Solas is possibly the most complicated and interesting character that Bioware have ever created.  I really don't see the point of just suddenly making that dig at him at the end of an otherwise pretty good post.

 

People often use comparisons to illustrate their points. It was a fair comparison.
 

[leaguer of one]

1. No, the entire Trespasser DLC is proof of moon men actually. I can't point to any one example because the entire DLC is the proof.

 

2. Yeah, follow the Qun, not Vidasala who was not following the Qun.

 

3. Thanks for the correction. But as I wrote elsewhere, even if he becomes Tal-Vashoth and learns to live outside the Qun, I think there still should have been a set of circumstances where he can choose to go back to the Qun if he thinks the Inquisition should be stopped. And this isn't about the Qun either. It's should be about Vidasala's actions vs. the Inquisitors. Hers were anti-Qun. His were peaceful and orderly. Hissrad should have sided with the clear winners under those circumstances.

 

4. Who said the Inquisition would close up shop? And even if it were, so what? That's what the Qunari allegedly wanted, isn't it? And as you admitted in your last post, any plan to sweep the south, authorized or not, had already failed by that point anyway.

1. Yes, the entire trespasser dlc is proof. The very plot of the dlc and main conflict of it is the proof.

 

2. She's fallowing the qun. the fact the armies  of the anaatm are ready to swoop in one her plans suceed means she is fallowing the qun.

 

3.Why would he? Nothing is there to make him want to go back to the qun ever. it's about him learning that he can live outside the qun. he has too much in souther thedas to go back, so that makes no sense.

 

4. The entire dlc starts out about the fate the the inquisition with the nobles wanting to end it or make it a part of orlas. Sorry, but that's a huge hint the inquisition maybe closing up shop. And that not want the qun want. They want to end all the noble house, control all the pesent folk, and control magic so it won't destroy the world.

 

5. and the only reason why it fail was because of Solas. Their goal then shifted to taking him out, which the quis did not want because they needed him to stop the mark from  them. Slow the quis down is a death sentence for the quis because over time the mark will kill them.

[leaguer of one]

Not correct. Don't do Demands of the Qun. The Chargers live and yet Hissrad still sides with Vidasala. It's never about the Chargers.
 

What does that matter? The issue is if he learn to live without  the qun to be loyal, you need the charger to do that or it not possible. If you don't get him to learn that with the charger still alive he still turns on you. That still mean the issue is learning to live with out the qun.

[Dai Grepher]

I really can't think of a good logical reason to agree to work with someone like Bull in the first place, unless you are RPing an Inquisitor who really isn't that happy with the Chantry or with the idea of the Inquisition to begin with and doesn't mind opening it up to the potential for compromise.... Same with most of the other companions for that matter, since a lot of them have a past, or an agenda, or trust issues. But I guess the point is to show how easily organizations like that fall to corruption and betrayal, especially for a leader who utterly fails to inspire or get people to like them. A likeable Inquisitor can turn most (but not all) of their companions to their side, at least for the time being to take down Cory. But the organization still falls to spies in the end.

 

To open up a peaceful dialogue with the Qunari. The chance to persuade them not to invade the south. To see the value in different cultures and beliefs. To embrace coexistence. Also, to work together to save the world and stop those who would destroy it. Can you really afford to turn down help when the world is on the line?
 

[leaguer of one]

Right, but by "approval" I meant that he approves of what the Inquisition stands for personally, not the gameplay mechanic of approval. So yes, plot flags.

 

Because the South is what the Qunari intend to "liberate", is it not? And wasn't Vidasala the one talking about the "gentle path"? That means keep the South in peace and safety while converting them swiftly.

 

If Hissrad only cares about the Qunari, then saving the dreadnaught should prove that the Inquisition is not a threat to the Qunari.

 

That's wrong. If you don't do the quest at all, the Chargers still live and yet he sides with Vidasala. So even if he has the Chargers, he still sides with Vidasala. And my point this whole time is that Vidasala was acting against the Qun. So Hissrad should not have sided with her except under the circumstances of the Inquisitor being a DANGEROUS threat to the south or the Qunari. Meaning, even a Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull should have sided with Vidasala in that case.

Approval does not matter. What matter is belief. If a guy believe that he must do everything for his culture for sacrificing his closest friend, lover, and his self for it, then it's pretty clear how much he approves of the person he must sacrifice does not matter.

 

Every member of the chargers he has high approval of,possibly even more so then the Quis, YET HE AS A QUNARI LOYAL AGENT LET THEM ALL DIE!!!!!!!

 

Sorry, if you don't want him to turn out you you have to change his belief.

[leaguer of one]

To open up a peaceful dialogue with the Qunari. The chance to persuade them not to invade the south. To see the value in different cultures and beliefs. To embrace coexistence. Also, to work together to save the world and stop those who would destroy it. Can you really afford to turn down help when the world is on the line?
 

Do not that all want to invade all of thedas and covert everyone to the qun. Peaceful Dialogue is impossible as long as they think this way. The only reason to let Bull in  is to slow down any invasion that can happen in the future.

[Ryzaki]

Right, but by "approval" I meant that he approves of what the Inquisition stands for personally, not the gameplay mechanic of approval. So yes, plot flags.

 

Because the South is what the Qunari intend to "liberate", is it not? And wasn't Vidasala the one talking about the "gentle path"? That means keep the South in peace and safety while converting them swiftly.

 

If Hissrad only cares about the Qunari, then saving the dreadnaught should prove that the Inquisition is not a threat to the Qunari.

 

That's wrong. If you don't do the quest at all, the Chargers still live and yet he sides with Vidasala. So even if he has the Chargers, he still sides with Vidasala. And my point this whole time is that Vidasala was acting against the Qun. So Hissrad should not have sided with her except under the circumstances of the Inquisitor being a DANGEROUS threat to the south or the Qunari. Meaning, even a Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull should have sided with Vidasala in that case.

 

Free mages doesn't mean the South isn't at peace however. (not to mention the south being chaotic would actually help the Qunari). Also the Inquisition stands for closing the breach. Everything else is window dressing. (not to mention via Trespasser all the choices get funneled into nearly the same thing ultimately anyway so)

 

But that's not what the quest is about. There is no proving the Inquisition isn't a threat there.

 

Yes because he's still with the Qun. The Chargers can cause him to leave the Qun because he's forced to choose between yes it doesn't mean they automatically do so (otherwise he would've been Tal Vashoth when you met him). But if the chargers aren't in danger there's no reason for him to leave the Qun. He leaves for them so they can live. If there's no need for that he doesn't leave the Qun. He doesn't go "oh I have my chargers let's leave the Qun!" it's "I have to choose between the Qun or my Chargers because I'm going to lose one."  If the chargers aren't in danger he can just keep both. He has to be forced to choose.