657 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

No, I mean those Venatori mages who were taken completely by surprise and yet still managed to analyze the situation and respond to it by throwing a few fireballs.

 

Oh but that's right, only mages that are trained in war and strategy are able to learn the fireball spell. /sarcasm

Again, they had a line of command. You not idea how statagy and organization in combat works. Military organization make place for when thing go their way and back up plan when things don't. Getting them by surprise does not matter if they have training and command line to reorganize and counter attack. The vinatori on the breach have that. the free mages of southern thedas don't.

[leaguer of one]

I don't think the Qunari are reliable allies. My Hero of Ferelden does not trust them. My Champion does not trust them. My Inquisitor does not trust them. But all of them are willing to give the Qunari the chance to act civilized. Condemning the Qunari out of fear of what they might do is no better than how they act against mages or non-Qunari. Fighting a bad philosophy means providing a better example.

 

Fine, they would still invade. But the issue here is whether they were invading in Trespasser or not. I claim that they were not. Vidasala was acting outside the Qun. Hissrad had no reason to obey her in my worldstate.

 

Prove that the antaam was ready to take the south. Prove that Vidasala was not acting alone without authorization.

1. Not condeming them out of fear. it's logical to see they can coexsist as they are. Anytime you can work with them is limited beaus eof the nature of the qun. Even Sten who became my warden's Kadan told be one day he's coming back with the army of the qun will invade and hope he does not met my warden on the batter feild because he know they will fight to the death.

 

2. But they are invading in trespasser. That was the entire plan they had for dragon breath. That was one of the points of the dlc.

 

3. Again , the proof is the entire dragons breath plan.

[The Baconer]

Prove that the antaam was ready to take the south. Prove that Vidasala was not acting alone without authorization.

 

With the Dragon's Breath disrupted and any hope of a swift victory dashed, the Qunari retreated back to the North. Few knew what debates were waged in Par Vollen, but not long after the Exalted Council, the Qunari launched new attacks against Tevinter.

[leaguer of one]

With the Dragon's Breath disrupted and any hope of a swift victory dashed, the Qunari retreated back to the North. Few knew what debates were waged in Par Vollen, but not long after the Exalted Council, the Qunari launched new attacks against Tevinter.

It's like he never play the trespasser dlc or listen to anything going on or something.

[SweetTeaholic]

Not correct. Don't do Demands of the Qun. The Chargers live and yet Hissrad still sides with Vidasala. It's never about the Chargers.
 

 

Ummm, yes it was. Ask Weekes, he'll tell you and even called people out on it who cried "why did he betray me the A-hole" telling them "you let his men die, yeah, he's going to betray you."

 

And the only reason he sides with the Qun if you don't do his mission is because he still has ties to it. He was ordered to join the Inquisition as a sleeper agent. Also the fact YOU didn't do his mission to begin with means that you didn't have a choice to decide his fate. You're the same people who complain that you had to kill Wrex if you didn't do his mission in the first place and get pissy about it. YOU didn't make the effort to befriend him, so there is no bond and no trust; so you can't talk him down. Bioware is known for doing this.

 

Also, personal mission. ITS CALLED THAT FOR A REASON!!

[Dai Grepher]

1.Tthe entire dragon's breath plan. There ....Proof.

 

2.No Vidasala is just a qunari spy master and lead anti magic resercher.

 

3.Why would it? He does not need to know the agent of fen'heral is to stop the guy or do his job. Explain why he need to know it's Solas?

 

4.Which is why his part of operation dragon breath.

 

5.It does not matter. The issue of invading was to control the south and it's magic. it's because of the veil. it would not matter if the inquisitor was an knowing agent or unknowing one, the mission of the qunari would still of happened.

 

1. No. The entire Dragon's Breath plan is proof of moon men. How can you not see that when I don't post any specific examples but instead reference the entire plot as a whole?

 

2. But she's the head of what she was assigned to. She had no superior other than those stationed in Par Vollen. She was a radical who took her role too far and did not seek instructions from her superiors.

 

3. He needs to know it's Solas if he is to have any reason to think the Inquisitor is involved with the agent of Fen'Harel's plot. Otherwise, it's just some random enemy that the Inquisitor has never even heard of before this.

 

4. Again, if he was part of Dragon's Breath, then why didn't he kill the Inquisitor in the Crossroads or Shattered Library? Why was he sent back to the Inquisition at all?

 

5. But you keep forgetting that the Qunari were not invading. Only Vidasala was, in violation of the Qun. And even if the Qunari were plotting to blow up the southern leaders, that has nothing to do with what Hissrad knew at the time and it has nothing to do with the elven spirits or what Vidasala was doing feeding lyrium to serebaas. Her actions were suspicious. And if Hissrad thought everything Vidasala was doing was correct, then why did he help the Inquisitor cut down all those fellow Qunari in the Shattered Library?

[Dai Grepher]

Ummm, yes it was. Ask Weekes, he'll tell you and even called people out on it who cried "why did he betray me the A-hole" telling them "you let his men die, yeah, he's going to betray you."

 

And the only reason he sides with the Qun if you don't do his mission is because he still has ties to it. He was ordered to join the Inquisition as a sleeper agent. Also the fact YOU didn't do his mission to begin with means that you didn't have a choice to decide his fate. You're the same people who complain that you had to kill Wrex if you didn't do his mission in the first place and get pissy about it. YOU didn't make the effort to befriend him, so there is no bond and no trust; so you can't talk him down. Bioware is known for doing this.

 

Also, personal mission. ITS CALLED THAT FOR A REASON!!

 

Actually, I just posted a fact from the game. That ends the debate. It was never about the Chargers. It was always about Bull being declared Tal-Vasoth, living without the Qun, and seeing he didn't need it. Anything Weekes says is rendered moot by Trespasser which shows The Iron Bull siding with Vidasala if the Chargers are alive and Demands of the Qun was not completed. That is a fact. Accept it or reject it. Up to you.

 

If Weekes really said that, then he doesn't know his own game. The Chargers can live, and he can still side with Vidasala. Irrefutable fact.

 

Once again, because you probably didn't see my post about this, but I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun and I wanted to kill Hissrad based on his choice. I wanted that. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is that he did not side with the Qun. He sided with a woman who was blatantly violating the Qun.

[leaguer of one]

1. No. The entire Dragon's Breath plan is proof of moon men. How can you not see that when I don't post any specific examples but instead reference the entire plot as a whole?

 

2. But she's the head of what she was assigned to. She had no superior other than those stationed in Par Vollen. She was a radical who took her role too far and did not seek instructions from her superiors.

 

3. He needs to know it's Solas if he is to have any reason to think the Inquisitor is involved with the agent of Fen'Harel's plot. Otherwise, it's just some random enemy that the Inquisitor has never even heard of before this.

 

4. Again, if he was part of Dragon's Breath, then why didn't he kill the Inquisitor in the Crossroads or Shattered Library? Why was he sent back to the Inquisition at all?

 

5. But you keep forgetting that the Qunari were not invading. Only Vidasala was, in violation of the Qun. And even if the Qunari were plotting to blow up the southern leaders, that has nothing to do with what Hissrad knew at the time and it has nothing to do with the elven spirits or what Vidasala was doing feeding lyrium to serebaas. Her actions were suspicious. And if Hissrad thought everything Vidasala was doing was correct, then why did he help the Inquisitor cut down all those fellow Qunari in the Shattered Library?

1. Sorry, but it is proof. the entire plan is them bombing the noble house ans sweeping in with an army to take control in the choas. How is that not proof?

 

2. Her base is in qunari lands. They can even send letter to her. It take nothing to send an army after her. 

 

3. For the last time, I DOES NOT MATTER IF THE QUIS IS REALLY AN AGENT OF  FEN"HERAL. THEY WERE GOING TO DO THIS PLAN NO MATTER WHAT AND IT"S DUE TO THE BREACH.

 

4.Because the point is not of dragon breath is not to kill the inquisitor. And he was not order to yet.

 

5.As some posted before..... From the ending slide.

 

Note how Vidasala state now that the plan has fail they have to take the way of sword and as soon as the dlc end it state the qunari take a full invasion on Tevinter. 

They are not rogue.

[leaguer of one]

Actually, I just posted a fact from the game. That ends the debate. It was never about the Chargers. It was always about Bull being declared Tal-Vasoth, living without the Qun, and seeing he didn't need it. Anything Weekes says is rendered moot by Trespasser which shows The Iron Bull siding with Vidasala if the Chargers are alive and Demands of the Qun was not completed. That is a fact. Accept it or reject it. Up to you.

 

If Weekes really said that, then he doesn't know his own game. The Chargers can live, and he can still side with Vidasala. Irrefutable fact.

 

Once again, because you probably didn't see my post about this, but I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun and I wanted to kill Hissrad based on his choice. I wanted that. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is that he did not side with the Qun. He sided with a woman who was blatantly violating the Qun.

He knows his won game. He's the one who planned it out so bull still betray you if you don't do his mission. Sorry but even the write of the plot is telling you you're wrong.

[SweetTeaholic]

Actually, I just posted a fact from the game. That ends the debate. It was never about the Chargers. It was always about Bull being declared Tal-Vasoth, living without the Qun, and seeing he didn't need it. Anything Weekes says is rendered moot by Trespasser which shows The Iron Bull siding with Vidasala if the Chargers are alive and Demands of the Qun was not completed. That is a fact. Accept it or reject it. Up to you.

 

If Weekes really said that, then he doesn't know his own game. The Chargers can live, and he can still side with Vidasala. Irrefutable fact.

 

Once again, because you probably didn't see my post about this, but I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun and I wanted to kill Hissrad based on his choice. I wanted that. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is that he did not side with the Qun. He sided with a woman who was blatantly violating the Qun.

 

Ummm, you do realise Weekes is the lead writer, right? He would know.

 

No, you don't understand his own game. Bull is still with the Qun if you don't do his mission. His ties aren't cut. It's as simple as that.

 

And no, the Vidassala was working with the Qun. Someone quoted it already:

 

 

With the Dragon's Breath disrupted and any hope of a swift victory dashed, the Qunari retreated back to the North. Few knew what debates were waged in Par Vollen, but not long after the Exalted Council, the Qunari launched new attacks against Tevinter.

 

 

SO YES THE QUNARI GAVE FULL SUPPORT TO THIS PLAN!! THIS WOULDN'T BE HERE OTHERWISE!! WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND MY GOD!! And don't give me that crap that "Weekes doesn't know his own game." YES HE DOES! SO DOES EVERY OTHER WRITER WHO WORKED ON THE GAME!!

 

The only reason the Qunari act like they don't contone it is simple PR. Of course they're going to say that they didn't give her the orders. The Qunari are known for lying in the past. Also on the point of using magic even though the Qun is against using it: THEY WILL DO ANYTHING TO ENLIGHTEN AND SPREAD THE QUN!! AGAIN THIS ISN'T HARD TO GET!!

 

And yes I did see your post. All of them. And again everyone proved you wrong or at least tried to explain it's not the case.

[The Baconer]

Varric: So, qunari in good standing. You must be proud?

Iron Bull: Tolerably. Not a friend of the alliance.

Varric: I got to see enough of the qunari back in Kirkwall.

Iron Bull: Hey... we probably won't try to burn down a city this time.

 

Oh, you Qunari.

[Illyria]

Actually, I just posted a fact from the game. That ends the debate. It was never about the Chargers. It was always about Bull being declared Tal-Vasoth, living without the Qun, and seeing he didn't need it. Anything Weekes says is rendered moot by Trespasser which shows The Iron Bull siding with Vidasala if the Chargers are alive and Demands of the Qun was not completed. That is a fact. Accept it or reject it. Up to you.

 

If Weekes really said that, then he doesn't know his own game. The Chargers can live, and he can still side with Vidasala. Irrefutable fact.

 

Once again, because you probably didn't see my post about this, but I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun and I wanted to kill Hissrad based on his choice. I wanted that. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is that he did not side with the Qun. He sided with a woman who was blatantly violating the Qun.

 

Weekes wrote Bull and is the lead writer of Dragon Age.  Trespasser was his first project as said lead writer.

 

Yes, the Chargers can still be alive and Bull can turn on you.  However this requires you to have not done his quest.  In which case Bull hands himself straight back to the re-educators because he's well aware of his own doubts over the Qun and the reality that the Chargers are so much more to him than just a cover.  No, this isn't stated in the game.  But, in an earlier post, I pointed out that Bull says he's already gone to the re-eductors once before (due to his doubts about the qun), and he says that he's going back to Par Vollen in the end game party if his quest isn't completed (I didn't trigger his quest in my first playthrough and got this ending from him).  I'm sorry Bioware didn't hold your hand and talk you through each step of this story, but the writers left all the evidence in the game and relied on their players to have the intelligence to put the pieces together.

[Aren]

 You crafted this path with your own hands,what are you complaining for?

[BSpud]

I have been privately corrected and reminded that there are some people, sometimes with interest also in bdsm (which I suppose relates to Iron Bull), who find mild public humiliation exciting or arousing.  I suppose if Bioware has offered the public humiliation ending of the Inquisitor for those people, then I'm not going to judge. Now those fetishists who appreciate the virtual mockery know where to find it.

 

For those who wander into that ending unwittingly and don't enjoy such things, it's just a cheap shot.

 

Lolwut

 

That epilogue is the only totally logical consequence to those choices. What's great is that Bioware didn't hold back, didn't coddle. But you know, people beg for real consequences, and then whine when they get 'em.

[QueenCrow]

Lolwut

 

That epilogue is the only totally logical consequence to those choices. What's great is that Bioware didn't hold back, didn't coddle. But you know, people beg for real consequences, and then whine when they get 'em.

 

Re: "Lolwut" - Nevermind.  I can see now that it's a situation in which someone has confused real consequences with dick moves.  It's a common mistake among nearsighted people.  

[leaguer of one]

Re: "Lolwut" - Nevermind.  I can see now that it's a situation in which someone has confused real consequences with dick moves.  It's a common mistake among nearsighted people.  

Well, Orlisiens are dicks....so what do you expect? Remeber, you have a fun time laughing at Florianne.

[squirrely1]

I feel like, although the character isn't foisted upon us, the moral judgment is.  I can't recall another time when Bioware has purposefully written in a choice that seems a moral grey area and then closed the story line with what are undoubtedly lopsided and heavy-handed consequences.  Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with consequences, but when writers end a role play dialogue with something that feels like a chastisement for making a choice they willfully offered in a scene that was debatable as far as ethics, I resent the morality of the writer being foisted upon me.  

 

And as if the possibility of betrayal isn't enough, there's that final shiv in the ribs that leaves inquisitor as a Thedosian laughing stock.  

 

 

Mean.  Like, control freak mean.  And really unnecessary. 

Ouch .... I'm so glad I didn't try to romance him and allow the Chargers to die that is a double kick to the ribs.  

 

One thing I like to say is I approach alot of my RP games not so much slipping into the character fully immersed but actually trying to get the most out of the overall gaming experience.  So therefore when I do replay a game with another character I purposefully take a different path with different choices in order to experience different game play results.

 

What irks me though is when people here and other places tend to judge you for making those decisions like you are really effing stupid and why didn't you see that coming you idiot.  I mean it's easy to recon that now that we know and all is fully revealed.  

 

This sort of feels like a chastisement as well not for your pc though but for you as the person steering your character and forming those choices.   I realize those lines are blurred in the big picture but I can't help agreeing with this post that this really does make you feel like one giant heel in the end.  And it's not like you did what you did with malice and fore thought.  It was a relatively quick decision that had to be made and we all know that in war sometimes commanders do make the wrong decisions and again those consequences can hurt very much.  But to take that one decision and then twist it into a huge moral statement in the end does tend to come off a bit harsh and judgmental. 

 

And I can see people saying well if you make a stupid choice then you get a stupid result, again that is not helpful here, because you can't tell me that you haven't purposefully played out a scene that may go against your own personal moral choices in order to get a different game play experience.  That shouldn't come off as "gee you are a stupid dumb ass, why did you choose that?  You are now going down in history as a laughing stock!"  Wow that hurts and makes you never want to experience the other side of a choice that the game presents.

[Ryzaki]

?

 

I do sometimes take certain choices because it's in character for my characters to make those choices. That's part of role playing. I don't get angry when the bad outcome happens. It's simply a result that happened to my character because of their choices. (And sometimes I get a good outcome to something and I'm lolwut? That should've ended horribly) . It's only an issue for me when all choices funnel into the same thing or the bad outcome is unavoidable. Then yeah I'm annoyed because booooo.

[denise12184]

I doubt Viddasal was Tal-Vashoth. Tal-Vashoth are those that actively reject the Qun. Even if she overstepped her bounds, and the evidence I saw indicates otherwise, it still wouldn't make her Tal-Vashoth. Bull says in a banter something to the effect of if you see a qunari in full armor, run, because it's war. Those guys looked pretty decked out to me. The Triumvirate denying a failed plot also seems par for the course. They wanted to throw the South into chaos and then sweep in to clean up and convert. Viddasala even blames the inquisitor that lives that would have been spared will be lost now that they can't take the 'gentle path'.

 

As far as Bull knowing he shouldn't have sided with her, the Qun doesn't really stress independent thinking. You get an order, you follow it. The Qun demands, it doesn't politely ask your opinion. Not to mention he's been in Par Vollen for the last two years. His role as Iron Bull is over. Even if the Chargers are still alive, it was just a role for him until/unless you show him it's okay to be someone other than Hissrad.

 

Edit: I want to add that there are valid reasons to accept the alliance. It's not something I could ever do personally, but there is a reason I'm not in charge of those kinds of decisions. I lack the emotional distance they require, and I know I'd make a crap commander in real life. There seems to be some hostility here, and in no way am I trying to add to that. Kind of reminds me of the ME threads where people were villifying others based on what color they picked at the end.

[QueenCrow]

I really like your post, squirrely1.  There isn't really anything I can pick out that does it, or that I can relate to, I just appreciate your consideration of the big picture and your empathy for others.  Like you, though I didn't get the Iron Bull kick-to-the-ribs ending, I can empathize and am also glad that I didn't accidentally step in that mess.  

[BSpud]

Re: "Lolwut" - Nevermind.  I can see now that it's a situation in which someone has confused real consequences with dick moves.  It's a common mistake among nearsighted people.  

 

Yeah, I have no idea what you're trying to say here, either.

[squirrely1]

I really like your post, squirrely1.  There isn't really anything I can pick out that does it, or that I can relate to, I just appreciate your consideration of the big picture and your empathy for others.  Like you, though I didn't get the Iron Bull kick-to-the-ribs ending, I can empathize and am also glad that I didn't accidentally step in that mess.  

Thanks.  There is a line though... I could NEVER shoot Mordin in the back in ME3 though. But I think that was a pretty cut and dried "evil choice"  so you can say ....you know even though I am playing a sort of edgy PC I don't want to make them that much of a monster.

 

With this choice with Bull it was not that clear really.  I mean yes it was debatable that allowing Bull's family to die was a horrible act in of itself, but it wasn't like you had a bunch of other options.  You were presented with a crossroads and you made a choice trying to determine what the best outcome would be in the grand scheme of things.  ANd then BAM it comes back to bite you in a huge way and not only that but now you are being judged/condemned for it.

 

But meh.... I"m  ok with how the betrayal played out honestly.  It gave me a rush and actually I'm glad it happened because I got to experience the other side of that game experience.  But still hurts though.  

[Dai Grepher]

Weekes wrote Bull and is the lead writer of Dragon Age.  Trespasser was his first project as said lead writer.

 

Yes, the Chargers can still be alive and Bull can turn on you.  However this requires you to have not done his quest.  In which case Bull hands himself straight back to the re-educators because he's well aware of his own doubts over the Qun and the reality that the Chargers are so much more to him than just a cover.  No, this isn't stated in the game.  But, in an earlier post, I pointed out that Bull says he's already gone to the re-eductors once before (due to his doubts about the qun), and he says that he's going back to Par Vollen in the end game party if his quest isn't completed (I didn't trigger his quest in my first playthrough and got this ending from him).  I'm sorry Bioware didn't hold your hand and talk you through each step of this story, but the writers left all the evidence in the game and relied on their players to have the intelligence to put the pieces together.

 

Irrelevant. If Weekes contradicts the canon, then Weekes is wrong. That's if Weekes even said that.

 

Exactly. Not done his quest. So it isn't about letting the Chargers die. It's about The Iron Bull's loyalty to the Qun. So why are you disagreeing with the lead writer, hmmm?

 

What are you talking about? You just admitted that I was right.
 

[leaguer of one]

Irrelevant. If Weekes contradicts the canon, then Weekes is wrong. That's if Weekes even said that.

 

Exactly. Not done his quest. So it isn't about letting the Chargers die. It's about The Iron Bull's loyalty to the Qun. So why are you disagreeing with the lead writer, hmmm?

 

What are you talking about? You just admitted that I was right.
 

No it's not. he is the one who made it so that if the chargers are alive and you did not do Bull's quest Bull with betray you.

 

Sorry, but you are totally wrong on this.

[Illyria]

Irrelevant. If Weekes contradicts the canon, then Weekes is wrong. That's if Weekes even said that.

 

Exactly. Not done his quest. So it isn't about letting the Chargers die. It's about The Iron Bull's loyalty to the Qun. So why are you disagreeing with the lead writer, hmmm?

 

What are you talking about? You just admitted that I was right.
 

 

Because he is loyal to the Qun.

 

Bull, Hissard, whatever you want to call him, was never on your side.  EVER.  From the moment you recuited him he was a sleeper agent.  By doing his personal quest and saving the Chargers you are telling him it's okay to be Tal Vashoth, and he's then on your side from that moment on.  As long as he's not Tal Vashoth he is not loyal to you.