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[The Baconer]

The antaam was not ready to sweep the south. Nothing in the game even implies this. Viddasala even claims that the Qunari will now take the way of blades and wage war on the south, yet that doesn't happen. Clearly, Viddasala was lying the whole time.

 

So have we gone from the Qunari not being ready to move into the south, to the Qunari being ready to move into the south for the purpose of taking the Viddasala into custody, and back to the Qunari not being ready to move into the south.

 

 

Bull returns for debriefing, not reeducation.

 

Sure.

[Illegitimus]

That last bit is a contradiction of known lore, though, isn't it. Evidently, they don't all like it, because there's Tal Vashoth.

 

Well I didn't say "they all".  Apparently enough like it that the system doesn't fall apart or lag behind.  

[Dai Grepher]

And the moon is inhabited by puppies and rainbows taste of marshmallows!

 

See, I can do it too.

 

HOW. DO. YOU. KNOW. THIS?

 

You don't.  You were given the same facts as me and came to one conclusion, and I came to another, but you're acting like your conclusions are the only conclusions to be had, and you're ignoring all evidence that goes against what you say.

 

No, I'm posting facts. You are not.

 

Because I played the game, read the texts, and observed the character actions and quotes.

 

What evidence? I saw no quote from Weekes. I saw no evidence that the operation was officially sanctioned. I saw a note from Par Vollen saying it was NOT officially sanctioned. Then your side claimed that was just the Qunari denying they were involved when in fact they were. Okay, well, that's possible. But if the really weren't involved, they would say the same thing. So that's just your opinion, not fact. And in any case, that letter should have been all Hissrad needed to ignore any order Viddasala gave him.
 

[Dai Grepher]

That does not matter. it's the same case as what bull does when he sleeps with random people. The ben-hasserth are allowed to bend and break the rules of the qun in order to  serve the qun  and long as the job gets done. Hissrad job is not to sleep with people, that's a tamassern's job. His job is to be a spy and he does not need to sleep with random people to do that job nor drink till he passes out.

 

Repeating the same refuted argument doesn't make it any less wrong. Bull's sleeping around is part of his purpose. Feeding saarebas lyrium is the exact opposite of Viddasala's job.

 

And if Bulls purpose is contradicted by his behaviors, then that only means he was acting outside the Qun as well. So my point still stands.
 

[Dai Grepher]

So have we gone from the Qunari not being ready to move into the south, to the Qunari being ready to move into the south for the purpose of taking the Viddasala into custody, and back to the Qunari not being ready to move into the south.

 

 

 

Sure.

 

The Qunari were not ready to sweep the south with an army. That was my argument. They were ready to move in and stop Viddasala though.

 

You realize there is a HUGE difference between moving in to stop a rogue agent and moving in to take over all of southern Thedas, right?
 

[Illegitimus]

No, I'm posting facts. You are not.

 

Because I played the game, read the texts, and observed the character actions and quotes.

 

What evidence? I saw no quote from Weekes. I saw no evidence that the operation was officially sanctioned. I saw a note from Par Vollen saying it was NOT officially sanctioned. Then your side claimed that was just the Qunari denying they were involved when in fact they were. Okay, well, that's possible. But if the really weren't involved, they would say the same thing. So that's just your opinion, not fact. And in any case, that letter should have been all Hissrad needed to ignore any order Viddasala gave him.
 

 

There's a stronger argument that the Qunari high command had decided that she had gone off the reservation.  That letter was not delivered to Josephine.  Instead it was crumpled up into a ball on the desk of the subject.  This is not consistent with the Qunari just going for the plausible deniability.  If that was all they were doing, then there would be no reason for it to be redirected.  Indeed that would defeat the purpose.  The correspondence was redirected to the subject and the subject doesn't seem to be happy with what she read.   Based on that, I'm confident that the Guy Fawkes scheme was in fact unauthorized just as the letter says.   Doesn't mean anything else was, of course.  

[Rekkampum]

That's fair enough.

 

Except - Bull says, in his dialouge about re-educators, that he once turned himself in for re-education.  And he says at the party in the endgame that he's returning to Par Vollen.  We know that Bull has been struggling with the qun for quite some time and that he clearly sees the Chargers as more than just a cover.

 

Bull was pretty clearly going to hand himself straight back over to the re-educators.

 

And there's no need to be rude.  True, I was a little curt in my wording but that's just how I speak.

 

I highly doubt that he needed to return to the re-educators since the mission - if you sacrifice them - on the Storm Coast reaffirms his duty to the Qun and once he mourns the loss of the Chargers, he has nothing holding him back from it.

[robertthebard]

No, I'm posting facts. You are not.
 
Because I played the game, read the texts, and observed the character actions and quotes.
 
What evidence? I saw no quote from Weekes. I saw no evidence that the operation was officially sanctioned. I saw a note from Par Vollen saying it was NOT officially sanctioned. Then your side claimed that was just the Qunari denying they were involved when in fact they were. Okay, well, that's possible. But if the really weren't involved, they would say the same thing. So that's just your opinion, not fact. And in any case, that letter should have been all Hissrad needed to ignore any order Viddasala gave him.

Unless he knew it was just plausible deniability. He, and the Qun are actively spying on you. We get this from Solas, who's own spies tripped over their spies. So you don't think it likely that IB knows full well what's going on, and that if the operation goes ****** up, which it did, that they were going to deny any knowledge? I find that to be the most likely explanation, if IB isn't Tal Vashoth.

[Illyria]

No, I'm posting facts. You are not.

 

Because I played the game, read the texts, and observed the character actions and quotes.

 

What evidence? I saw no quote from Weekes. I saw no evidence that the operation was officially sanctioned. I saw a note from Par Vollen saying it was NOT officially sanctioned. Then your side claimed that was just the Qunari denying they were involved when in fact they were. Okay, well, that's possible. But if the really weren't involved, they would say the same thing. So that's just your opinion, not fact. And in any case, that letter should have been all Hissrad needed to ignore any order Viddasala gave him.
 

 

Yes.  You're right.  You are the only person who reads the codex entries and listens to the characters.  My copies of WoT are just for show.  In fact, I don't even play Dragon Age!
 

[Illyria]

I highly doubt that he needed to return to the re-educators since the mission - if you sacrifice them - on the Storm Coast reaffirms his duty to the Qun and once he mourns the loss of the Chargers, he has nothing holding him back from it.

 

I know.  I maybe wasn't very clear since I was typing on a tablet that hates the BSN but I was referring to a worldstate in which Demands of the Qun wasn't completed and the Chargers are alive.

[Arvaarad]

@Arvaarad If that were true, why didn't she activate Hissrad sooner? And why would she think the Inquisition was working with Solas?

Because, had her plan worked, it wouldn't have been necessary. She was planning to blow up the Exalted Council, the Inquisitor was there. Dangerous magical Anchor has now been taken care of.

If she'd activated Hissrad, it would have drawn unnecessary attention to the other Qunari agents in the Inquisition, possibly scuttling the Dragon's Breath plan completely.

As for why she thought the Inquisition was working with Solas: probably because they were working with him until recently. "No, we totally lost track of Solas" probably sounds a lot like "nah, they're a rogue agent, they're not following the Qun."

[The Baconer]

The Qunari were not ready to sweep the south with an army. That was my argument. They were ready to move in and stop Viddasala though.

You realize there is a HUGE difference between moving in to stop a rogue agent and moving in to take over all of southern Thedas, right?

Yeah, I remember all the notes and codexes stating that.

[leaguer of one]

Repeating the same refuted argument doesn't make it any less wrong. Bull's sleeping around is part of his purpose. Feeding saarebas lyrium is the exact opposite of Viddasala's job.

 

And if Bulls purpose is contradicted by his behaviors, then that only means he was acting outside the Qun as well. So my point still stands.
 

No it's not. Him sleeping with random people is not part of his job. He is a spy, he does not need to sleep with anyone unless he does it to spy. Him sleeping with a random bar maid is not him spying. And don't say it's to fit it ether because he doesn't need to do that to fit in.

 

And for the last time get that the ben hassarth is free to do everything to do their and get to the end they need to get, that includes feeding lyrium to sarrabas.

[leaguer of one]

The Qunari were not ready to sweep the south with an army. 

 

Yes they are. Stop being so stubborn. The very game tells you this.

[Rekkampum]

No it's not. Him sleeping with random people is not part of his job. He is a spy, he does not need to sleep with anyone unless he does it to spy. Him sleeping with a random bar maid is not him spying. And don't say it's to fit it ether because he doesn't need to do that to fit in.

 

And for the last time get that the ben hassarth is free to do everything to do their and get to the end they need to get, that includes feeding lyrium to sarrabas.

 

They should read the codex entry "The Risk of Saarebas" which addresses the latter issue.

[leaguer of one]

They should read the codex entry "The Risk of Saarebas" which addresses the latter issue.

Why? None of what they did to the saarabas effected them negatively. All it show is that the saarabas have far more self control then they thought they did with magic and did not need to be collared.

[Drasanil]

The Qunari were not ready to sweep the south with an army. 

 

No they were. Why do you think Tevinter was caught off guard by a massive invasion force right after the Qunari disavowed the Vidissalla? Armies don't just appear out of nowhere, it takes significant logistics and prep time to get a proper invasion going.

 

Meaning the Qunari already had a massive invasion force ready for action in anticipation of something. Isn't odd that it just happened to be suddenly redirected to Tevinter right after the Vidissala failed and her actions were disavowed?

 

If you really believe that army wasn't meant for the South, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn 

[Rekkampum]

Why? None of what they did to the saarabas effected them negatively. All it show is that the saarabas have far more self control then they thought they did with magic and did not need to be collared.

 

Dude, you missed the point of my comment. The codex entry is found in the Trespasser DLC and pretty much explains why the Ben-Hassrath - and by extension, the Viddasala - are doing what they are. Gotta say though, that I'm pretty sure feeding Saarebas an obscene amount of lyrium likely had some negative effects on them.

[The Baconer]

No they were. Why do you think Tevinter was caught off guard by a massive invasion force right after the Qunari disavowed the Vidissalla? Armies don't just appear out of nowhere, it takes significant logistics and prep time to get a proper invasion going.

 

Meaning the Qunari already had a massive invasion force ready for action in anticipation of something. Isn't odd that it just happened to be suddenly redirected to Tevinter right after the Vidissala failed and her actions were disavowed?

 

If you really believe that army wasn't meant for the South, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn 

 

No no, we have insider info confirming it was, in fact, a light force meant to capture the Viddasala and shut down her operations. But, would it have been before or after she pressed the Gaatlok trigger? Hmmmmm.

 

HMMMMMMMM.

[Iakus]

Dude, you missed the point of my comment. The codex entry is found in the Trespasser DLC and pretty much explains why the Ben-Hassrath - and by extension, the Viddasala - are doing what they are. Gotta say though, that I'm pretty sure feeding Saarebas an obscene amount of lyrium likely had some negative effects on them.

 

Hell, yeah...

 

Lyrium has its costs, however. Prolonged use becomes addictive, the cravings unbearable. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours. Mages have additionally been known to suffer physical mutation: The magister lords of the Tevinter Imperium were widely reputed to have been so affected by their years of lyrium use that they could not be recognized by their own kin, nor even as creatures that had once been human.

[Drasanil]

No no, we have insider info confirming it was, in fact, a light force meant to capture the Viddasala and shut down her operations. But, would it have been before or after she pressed the Gaatlok trigger? Hmmmmm.

 

HMMMMMMMM.

 

Well it must have been meant for before she pressed the big red gaatlok button. I mean the Qunari disavowed her, and really want to be friends. I mean it's not like they've ever done anything of the sort before. Ever.

 

 

 

 

 

Right? 

[leaguer of one]

Dude, you missed the point of my comment. The codex entry is found in the Trespasser DLC and pretty much explains why the Ben-Hassrath - and by extension, the Viddasala - are doing what they are. Gotta say though, that I'm pretty sure feeding Saarebas an obscene amount of lyrium likely had some negative effects on them.

Not my point. i understand why they are doing it. my point is that dispite how the lyrium effect the Saarabas, they don't go crazy. I'm not saying they are doing it to prover the saarabas don't  need to be collared. i'm saying that the fact the saarath broke free from his control collar and still had self control prove the qun wrong about mages.

[Rekkampum]

Not my point. i understand why they are doing it. my point is that dispite how the lyrium effect the Saarabas, they don't go crazy. I'm not saying they are doing it to prover the saarabas don't  need to be collared. i'm saying that the fact the saarath broke free from his control collar and still had self control prove the qun wrong about mages.

 

I don't agree with how the Qun addresses Saarebas, but a note you can find in the Darvaarad clearly shows him losing his mind due to the process, so you'd be wrong on that front.

[The Baconer]

Not my point. i understand why they are doing it. my point is that dispite how the lyrium effect the Saarabas, they don't go crazy. I'm not saying they are doing it to prover the saarabas don't  need to be collared. i'm saying that the fact the saarath broke free from his control collar and still had self control prove the qun wrong about mages.

 

Define "self control". He was summoning demons (and serious demons at that).

[The Baconer]

You know what, let's put this to bed right now.

 

Viddasala explicitly calls out orders to members of the Antaam: You will not leave here alive, Inquisitor! Antaam, ebrashok adim!

 

https://youtu.be/73jpYby0mz0?t=11m49s